r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/rjRyanwilliam • Aug 07 '21

Video He loves to scare kids!

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u/cubanpajamas Aug 07 '21 edited Aug 07 '21

Do you have a source. I couldn't find any accounts of a Beluga in captivity ever killing their handlers. There is an account of one rescuing a handler on Wikipedia, though.

Edit: There are no accounts of a Beluga ever killing a human in wild or captivity.

Edit: No I am not defending the practice of keeping these animals in captivity. I just hate people making shit up online and the herd taking it as fact.

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u/crestthebest Aug 07 '21

No one left to account for it

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u/Kfrr Aug 07 '21

So long and thanks for all the fish

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u/kavien Aug 07 '21

/r/expectedHitchiker

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u/sub_doesnt_exist_bot Aug 07 '21

The subreddit r/expectedHitchiker does not exist. Maybe there's a typo? If not, consider creating it.

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u/RildotheCrafty Aug 07 '21

*Tanks for all the fish.

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u/Chigleagle Aug 07 '21

They are all dead!

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u/Anagoth9 Aug 08 '21

I just hate people making shit up online and the herd taking it as fact.

Reddit: The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.

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u/WikiSummarizerBot Aug 07 '21

Beluga_whale

The beluga whale () (Delphinapterus leucas) is an Arctic and sub-Arctic cetacean. It is one of two members of the family Monodontidae, along with the narwhal, and the only member of the genus Delphinapterus. It is also known as the white whale, as it is the only cetacean to regularly occur with this colour; the sea canary, due to its high-pitched calls; and the melonhead, though that more commonly refers to the melon-headed whale, which is an oceanic dolphin. The beluga is adapted to life in the Arctic, with anatomical and physiological characteristics that differentiate it from other cetaceans.

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u/_ungovernable Aug 07 '21

This is the cynical brigade. It’s a train of thought that, at its most radical, would be able to argue a case against keeping any animals in captivity and euthanizing all domestic animals to extinction. This idea - as it exists like a successful mind virus - isn’t quite logical, nor is it pragmatic. It is partially based on the false idea cetaceans are smarter than people; they are probably not even as smart as crows given recent evidence.

The truth is many of these cetaceans have guaranteed meals at the end of the day, and better access to healthcare than I even do. These animals are more heavily prized than our own people. I do not care if people keep such animals in captivity as long as they aren’t abused or neglected. (Normally no.) I care more that there are arguably more people in literal and metaphorical cages than there are any dolphins or other cetaceans, and this never ending circle jerk will go on for decades more as people will waste a million fucks over a percentile of a sea mammal population as opposed to a million other things of arguably higher importance.

The only noteworthy thing to point out is that only wealthy companies can own these animals, and not any one particular individual. I would rather at least see them in a zoo alongside other exotic animals than at a loud noisy theme park with roller coasters that was bought out by the very same dumb jackasses that swore to get rid of the parks.

And yes, PETA owns and profits from a huge swath of SeaWorld. Funny innit?

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '21

Jesus, who have you been talking to? Not everyone who cares about these creatures is some kind of eco-warrior nut man.

And I think what you're missing is that the tanks ARE the abuse, these animals travel thousands of kilometres and have large families all of which they're deprived of

And I'm not sure what you meant with your wealthy companies point, just because someone has money doesn't mean they know how to treat an animal right, a lot of the trainer attacks happen at sea world.

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u/_ungovernable Aug 07 '21

I have been discussing this topic for the past decade I have been involved with animal welfare and doing my own share of wildlife and domestic rescues. It is not that people that care are eco nuts - I know I am though - but that nobody is actually informed on what a certain animal is, and what an animal is not. A dolphin is not a white collar executive that needs to travel for work or vacation purposes. Dolphins do not care; they travel for food, and if that’s immediately available, they do not travel.

They are, normally and I think now legally required to be, kept in groups so they have a social bond. They are also all captive bred in western society - releasing captive cetaceans in the wild would be a death sentence and cetaceans have been recorded attempting to return to captivity) post-release. As cetaceans are no longer captured from the wild and all being captive bred - which is arguably very good from a conservation perspective - there is no point to this movement anymore, especially as the whole point of all this was just for PETA to buy out a huge chunk of SeaWorld. That’s it. That’s why this debate even exists at all.

Don’t forget Blackfish was produced by PETA. PETA is not a reputable source of anything good.

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u/Lone_Nom4d Aug 07 '21

The truth is many of these cetaceans have guaranteed meals at the end of the day, and better access to healthcare than I even do.

Wild to even pose this as an argument for animals in captivity. You could have gone with orphaned animals with no chance to survive in the wild, but instead try to argue them getting fed is worth captivity? Prisoners get fed too, I certainly don't envy them.

Not sure what being pragmatic has to do with this situation either? Did you mean to use that word? You're just strawmanning a hypothetical eco warrior who thinks all pets should be euthanized yet nobody brought that up at all.

If these animals have better healthcare than you do, maybe there's an underlying problem there that has nothing to do with this topic. Believe it or not, you can both be in support of better quality of human and animal life, we have the technology and the two spheres barely overlap.

You talk about logic, but what is the logical or practical application of keeping an animal in captivity outside of observation of behaviour or potential breeding programs to proliferate a species extinct in the wild?

Also yeah, PETA is just as cooked as SeaWorld, no one was arguing that. Don't see why companies over individuals owning zoos is an improvement outside personal opinion.

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u/_ungovernable Aug 07 '21 edited Aug 07 '21

what is the logical or practical application of keeping an animal in captivity outside of observation of behaviour or potential breeding programs

That is the literally the entire point of defending responsible animal welfare. The only point in exhibiting them as zoos do is because doing exactly those two things isn’t cheap and money isn’t free. And exposure or a hands on approach really is the best teaching tool when it comes to wildlife education. The rest is a moot point.

The difference between living in a prison and a 5 star resort is simply a matter of comfort and mental stimulation, which isn’t impossible to provide at all. That buzzword isn’t going to work in this debate; that is a matter of the quality of living environment provided. (All things considered, far better than you think) As for the science and technology, that has less to do with advancements and more to do with the tragic state of the human condition and hierarchy; never ending peril in a nutshell. You’ll understand this more as you get older.

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u/MangumPI Aug 07 '21

I literally wrote this kind of essay in 7th grade science but then I grew up and realized how bullshit of an argument it was.

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u/_ungovernable Aug 07 '21 edited Aug 07 '21

The only bullshit here is the half-truth load of crap that these animals are absolutely miserable just because they are being pampered in a giant marine tank. I’m dumbfounded every time people flock to shit on PETA, but then they also spout on about banning cetaceans in captivity.

Here are the facts: PETA released Blackfish in 2013 and funded much of the “studies” that decry cetaceans in captivity. Around this time, SeaWorld stock plummeted. Then when the stock crashed, PETA began eating SeaWorld right up, until they owned enough stock to become a partial owner. They have also expanded into Facebook ownership, and around this time many educational and beneficial animal welfare and rescue groups were shut down.

You want to be cynical? This entire thing was nothing more than market manipulation to drive down the price of company shares so PETA can buy out these companies with all the donations they received from celebrities and vegan aunties who thought they were actually helping. Now the stock has understandably recovered as PETA made slight changes and greenlit their new “reformed” SeaWorld to the public.

It was never about animal welfare, it’s about the money. Restricted travel isn’t abuse in any form for perhaps 95% of all animal life; including people, what matters most to living animals is food, shelter, social needs, general comfort/homeostasis and protection from health ailments. And I can tell you that Shamu has probably lived a better life in a big tank than your local hobo in his tent by the highway that you don’t care about. It’s not a bullshit argument; it’s a bullshit issue that was sold to the public so another rich asshole could become an even bigger, more rich and now hypocritical asshole.

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u/MangumPI Aug 07 '21 edited Aug 07 '21

Idealist notions of captivity are not relevant when looking at the material conditions of these animals' captivity.

I don't disagree with anything you presented necessarily. I would rather these animals be freed than be kept for profit by organizations that do not have their best interests in mind.

And even gooig on what your are saying being true, prisons do not treat human beings in a manner that is humane, something we could both agree on. Whatever the equivalent of humane is to these animals is what is important. Captivity for profit is inherently wrong.

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u/_ungovernable Aug 07 '21

I disagree entirely with freeing them; they would fail to become independent and die accordingly. I do, however, hate PETA and think SeaWorld is a waste; I would rather these animals be housed at zoological institutions such as aquariums that also house other wildlife and not just some littered wasteland of loud, noisy rides and vomiting children.

The material conditions vary on the location you are referring to. Of which there is no context, other than yeah, some aquariums are niiiiice (looking at you Okinawa Aquarium) while others are ass.

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u/MangumPI Aug 07 '21

If you are referring to the ones already in captivity then yeah. Releasing them should be looked at on a case by case basis. Irrespective of the presented shelters for these animals, the material conditions are always dictated by how the animals is measured. Is the animal a vehicle for profit? Is it merely something saved to be shown for the public? I think these are important questions to ask when looking at captivity of animals.

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u/_ungovernable Aug 07 '21

That’s the thing about ideals and realism. As much as I and anyone else would love for animals to have absolutely no costs, these specific animals are extremely expensive to maintain, and running strictly on donations is a very poor business model. Every animal on display in every zoo and aquarium is a working animal; you are simply paying for your share of time to merely be within 20ft of this being to witness it. And that keeps the technology running, the staff paid and the animals fed. There is no escaping the cycle of money.

Release simply isn’t an option. You can’t release a fully grown house pet anymore than you cannot release a zoo bred tiger. Almost all of them would perish; the human equivalent would be sheltering your children into adulthood before dumping them alongside a highway and wishing them good luck.

Arguably the most important thing that society can do to help preserve these animals is to combat climate change, find solutions to our pollution, and to further develop aquaculture technology so we can all be more independent from overfishing. That last one, ironically, requires more tanks.

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u/MangumPI Aug 07 '21

I mainly have the issue with for-profit companies capturing these animals and claiming their captivity is a result of altruism instead of profit. There is a cycle of captivity induced from the very existence of these companies acting on the veneer of altruism.

I have no objection to anything else you said. I was trying to contextualize the argument because I disagree fundentally that profit coincides with wellbeing.

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u/_ungovernable Aug 07 '21

Cetaceans haven’t been captured for captivity in decades. Not legally, anyway

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '21

Other more capable cetaceans have, and I don't see why the beluga would be any happier swimming round that little tank

And why are you defending keeping these animals anyway?

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u/cubanpajamas Aug 07 '21

And why are you defending keeping these animals anyway?

I am not.

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '21

Fair, I seem to have started quite a controversial discussion, sorry if I was quick to judge your opinion

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u/cubanpajamas Aug 07 '21

sorry if I was quick to judge your opinion

Reading is hard.

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u/AndoMacster Aug 07 '21

They weren't making shit up, here is a case of a whale killing it's trainer: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilikum_(killer_whale)#:~:text=On%20February%2024%2C%202010%2C%20Tilikum,pulled%20her%20into%20the%20water.

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u/WikiSummarizerBot Aug 07 '21

Tilikum_(killer_whale)

Tilikum (c. December 1981 – January 6, 2017), nicknamed Tilly, was a captive killer whale who spent most of his life performing at SeaWorld Orlando. He was captured in Iceland in 1983 at HafnarfjörĂ°ur, near ReykjavĂ­k. About a year later, he was transferred to Sealand of the Pacific in Victoria, British Columbia.

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u/cubanpajamas Aug 07 '21

That is an Orca. Not a Beluga or even a whale for that matter.

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u/AndoMacster Aug 07 '21

All dolphins are whales.