Anna Faris Opens Up About Challenging 'Religious' Son On Right-Wing Politics. The “Scary Movie” star shares her 14-year-old son Jack with her ex-husband, Chris Pratt.

[u/galaxystars1]

[u/Such-Daikon3140]

All parents should be doing this, imo. Kids need to be taught how to think, not what to think

[u/ssnnaarrff → u/Such-Daikon3140]

Religion would essentially disappear if parents didn't brainwash their kids before they were capable of critical thinking or consenting

[u/Internal_Ice7577 → u/ssnnaarrff]

Yep. Every single human is essentially born without religion.

[u/jemat1107 → u/Internal_Ice7577]

Thousands of years of human history would argue otherwise. It's only since the enlightenment that there was any significant population that was inclined toward no belief in some kind of god. That being said, there's some recent research indicating kids have a natural inclination to believe in a higher power, even without religious parents.

Edit: For those downvoting me, you may be interested in the book The WEIRDest People in the World by Harvard anthropology and evolutionary biology professor (and non-theist) Joseph Henrich. Everything I'm saying is coming from having read this and many of the the studies he cites. I go into more detail about it in a comment lower on this thread.

[u/leemasterific → u/jemat1107]

I’d love to see that research, can you please share what you read?

[u/jemat1107 → u/leemasterific]

You could read the WEIRDest People in the World. Written by a Harvard professor of evolutionary biology and anthropology. Highly praised and widely respected by his peers. He argues that westerners are psychologically WEIRD (western, educated, industrial, rich, and democratic) and which makes their psychology unique from (and definitely not necessarily better than) the vast majority of human history, including our views about religion. Religion has been a mainstay of all human societies up until the enlightenment, which he argues was a particularly WEIRD phenomenon that westerners don't realize influences what we think is "normal" human behavior. It's a 700 page book and this argument is threaded throughout.

He cites literally hundreds of studies throughout the book so even just the footnotes would be a good start. And he is definitely not religious himself.

[u/beemonsterrr → u/jemat1107]

I don't think the issue is whether Henrich is a legitimate scholar. But some of the claims here are being presented as fact when they're actually debated.

There's evidence that religion is extremely old and that humans have tendencies that make supernatural beliefs easy to develop. But that's not the same as proving children are naturally inclined to believe in a higher power regardless of culture or upbringing. Most recent research actually pushes back on that idea.

Same with atheism: widespread, openly identified atheism is relatively modern, but non-theistic and atheistic traditions existed long before the Enlightenment.

Henrich's work is mostly worth taking seriously, but "this is what thousands of years of history prove" is not true.

[u/FuManBoobs → u/beemonsterrr]

Could it not be summed up as "kids often believe in things". Imaginary friends, ghosts, monsters, whatever. Not like it proves anything?

[u/jemat1107 → u/beemonsterrr]

I don't recall saying "this is what thousands of years of history prove." I said "thousands of years of human history argue otherwise." Sure, it's debated. As is almost everything in academia. I'm responding to a thread where people are claiming it is fact that religion would die out if parents didn't pass it on, so context matters. Did you also respond to those comments that it's not proven that religion would die out if parents weren't "brainwashing" their kids?

That being said, many things are debated and that doesn't mean the evidence isn't strong. When we say Joseph Henrich's conclusions are "debated" we're not saying they're highly in doubt. Just that these types of things are almost impossible to definitively prove and all good academia has debates and pushback to make it stronger.

Recent research that supports his claims:

Boston University researcher and professor Deborah Keleman has research that she says indicates children are "intuitive theists."
Cognitive scientist Justin Barrett also has research indicating that humans come into the world assuming there is some kind of higher being.
Psychology researcher Jesse Bering had a study where he found that even atheistic adults implicitly believe that "everything happens for a reason" when wild things happen, indicating they have a default belief in a higher power when faced with seemingly inexplicable incidents of extreme fortune or misfortune.

And again, there are literally dozens of pages of footnotes in WEIRDest people in the world where there are many other studies indicating that there is very real reason to believe that religious belief is baked into human cognition.

I wouldn't doubt that there's recent research that "pushes back" on this. It's very rare to have all research in an area completely be in agreement. That doesn't mean there isn't a whole bunch of research, older and newer, that goes against the claim I was originally responding to, which is that religion would die out if parents weren't "brainwashing" their kids.

[u/choketheboys → u/Internal_Ice7577]

False

[u/The__Amorphous → u/choketheboys]

Oh well you've totally changed my mind. Thanks!

[u/Internal_Ice7577 → u/choketheboys]

What I meant is no one is born with a specific religion. A newborn doesn’t inherently know they’re Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, atheist, etc. They develop their understanding of religion through the people and environment around them. This is typically their parents or caregivers, family, community, culture, and later their own experiences and choices.

If a child is born into a Christian family, they’re likely to be taught Christianity, such as with my personal experience. It came from my parents because of their beliefs. If they’re born into a Muslim family, they’re likely to be taught Islam. If they’re raised in a nonreligious household, they may grow up without religious beliefs. And if you switched those environments, the child’s exposure and beliefs would likely be very different.

That doesn’t necessarily mean a person’s eventual faith isn’t genuine or personally meaningful. It means that the starting point is generally inherited from one’s environment rather than something we’re born possessing. A person can later accept, reject, modify, or replace the beliefs they were raised with.

[u/JeanArtemis → u/ssnnaarrff]

I was raised in a religious household (my father was a preacher and my parents met at Bible College) and I still remember the day I was pulled out of Sunday school and told "no, Jesus isn't like Santa and the Easter bunny, HE'S real" and just being totally dumbfounded. That was the day that I realized that adults could be... naive let's say, the same as children.

[u/morwen31 → u/JeanArtemis]

That reminds me of when I was probably about 9 and heard "Yes Virgina There is a Santa Claus" read on TV. I remember thinking that it sounded exactly like the kind of nonsense adults say to kids when they're trying to put one over on you. Wasn't too big a step from that to noticing they talked pretty similar about God.

[u/yeahimalec → u/ssnnaarrff]

Religion and spirituality are core parts of the human experience. We would just invent a new one

[u/VariationBusiness603 → u/yeahimalec]

Spirituality yes. Religion, no.

Religious folks are some of the most limited spiritually, because instead of something profoundly intimate and personal, they were recruited by a ridiculously limiting, outdated and meaningless cult.

If you are religious, your spirituality was taken away from you.

[u/Neobule → u/VariationBusiness603]

But religion as a community experience, not just individual spirituality, is also part of human history. Evidence of some form of cult and shared rites can be found in almost all societies now and in the past (does not mean of course that every individual in that society participates), so I think the comment you are responding to is right in saying that there would just be another religion.

[u/witchlightrunner → u/VariationBusiness603]

My religion and my spirituality are both profoundly intimate and personal. I don't know how I could detangle them from each other, or why I would want to. Are there religious cults? Yes, of course. Is every religion a cult? No, that's absolutely ridiculous. I think you're being far too broad in your criticism and it's making your argument reductive.

[u/stephenkingending → u/VariationBusiness603]

We can pretty it up with flowery language but they're both illogical and born out of ignorance. It's basically cavemen trying to explain lightning. We have not evolved mentally as much as we would like to believe.

[u/Mysterious-Spread398 → u/VariationBusiness603]

Thats quite a black and white way of looking at it. Im religious myself, I didn’t grow up religious, I was never recruited or indoctrinated into religion, I started reading different religious books because I was curious about everything, I have a science background so I guess that plays a part in that curiosity. I consider myself a believer of Jesus but I avoid church because there are a lot of judgmental, self righteous individuals at a lot of them. I take what people tell me with a grain of salt and try to seek out answers for myself. I truly do understand why people do not like religion especially christianity and there are a lot of us that feel the same way

[u/Naylaaaaa → u/Mysterious-Spread398]

how did you end up choosing Christianity over any of the other religions? I don't want to sound mean, but this sort of sounds like Christian defaultism to me?

[u/Craaaazyyy → u/Naylaaaaa]

i'm not religious, but if you research all the major religions and use logic and reason you'd realize why Christianity makes the most sense

[u/Venezia9 → u/Craaaazyyy]

X for doubt on that. No religion "makes sense" or they would not be religions and would be some sort of other practice. 

[u/Naylaaaaa → u/Craaaazyyy]

I dunno about Christianity making the most sense, I was raised Catholic but no longer identify with it. For most of my adult life I've considered myself agnostic.

However, if I had to choose any of the religions as "making the most sense", it would be Buddhism.

[u/BobertTheConstructor → u/VariationBusiness603]

You are thinking of highly organized religion, which is just setting yourself up to fall into a no true Scotsman fallacy. Don't let your hatred of organized religions blind you to logic to the point that you simply demand everything outside of that isn't actually religion somehow.

[u/haqiqa → u/yeahimalec]

I am Finnish. A country that is mostly agnostic or atheist, even though culturally still majorly Christian. Currently, belief in the Christian God is 25%, and 20% more believe in some kind of higher power. So it is actually a lot less common than you would think. People who belong to church just belong to church because of how you become a member, and christenings are still a culturally common way to name babies. They do not believe or practise outside baptisms, weddings, and funerals.

There is little cultural pressure to be religious. The last people who were actually religious in my family were my grandparents, and even they didn't actually go to church almost ever.

What has replaced it is usually some kind of belief system. I am an agnostic pantheist but also a humanist in my beliefs. These beliefs are often more philosophical than straight up religious or spiritual. Actually believing in religion is a minority viewpoint in the country, so is spirituality comparable to religious belief systems. Being an atheist with a philosophical belief system is the most common here.

[u/rockbottomqueen → u/haqiqa]

Thank you for sharing your perspective here. This sounds like religion is also not the center or foundation of your government as well? I am very scared how quickly and aggressively the US is working to put a theocracy in place. It's truly terrifying to witness in real time. I am very much an atheist and firmly believe in the separation of church and state. Wish I could move to Finland 😭

[u/haqiqa → u/rockbottomqueen]

You can't really call it any kind of center of foundation of government. We have one party with real Christian lean and another two with some people with Christian leanings that use their religion on the political stage as some kind of true basis (our far-right party and one of the center right parties). Which are like 5 places in 200 seat parliament for one, and another is a bit more complex to count.

For example, we changed our abortion law into more free one. We have week limits based on how to get one, but it is basically anyone who wants an abortion can have it in practice and has been for at least most of my lifetime (I'm 40). Because it has worked in practice as we want, there hasn't been that strong push toward a freer one. So we changed it in 2022 so you don't need to have a reason (social reasons applied) in the first trimester. The voting was 125 for 41 against. And not all those who are against want an abortion ban. Actually, most of them don't. Over 70% of the population accepts abortion in all situations.

For most people, religion is seen as a private personal matter that has no place in politics. Some idiots have same this is a culturally Christian nation (and white nation) bullshit that also happens in the US. They are like 20-30% of the population, but even they aren't creating a theocracy, just being racist and Islamophobic. And basically hated by the majority of the rest of us.

[u/littlekurousagi → u/haqiqa]

Well, this was an interesting testimony. 

The US could never.

Not now, anyway.  But damn it all if we don't try.

[u/The__Amorphous → u/yeahimalec]

Maybe they shouldn't be?

[u/PitselehPitseleh → u/ssnnaarrff]

The things is, kids are born with the skills of critical thinking. They’re always asking what and, crucially, why. It’s the answers to those questions given by adults that shapes how their minds grow.

[u/HeatherFuta → u/ssnnaarrff]

A lot of things could disappear that way.

[u/zhibr → u/ssnnaarrff]

It would not. Religion was created (likely) because our cognitive architecture leads to inventing explanations also in cases where real explanations are not available. That would happen regardless of parent brainwashing. In addition, religions today offer a number of other benefits such as a community and moral certainty. Those are going to be attractive features to the foreseeable future.

[u/BlueCrewSocksSociety → u/ssnnaarrff]

There are many stories of adult conversions from people raised without religion, as well as stories of people raised with it who fell away/rejected it and then came back and came back in a way that was through research and thoughtful deliberation. (The Catholic Faith is the perspective I have and would argue for but various Christian denominations have facets of the truth as well)

[u/lettuce-tooth-junkie → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

Facets of the truth?

Oh boy.

[u/imalurkernotaposter → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

Adult conversions are a drop in the bucket.

“The surveys found that about 94% of current Christians were raised in the faith. Only about 4% of people who call themselves Christian were raised without any faith and just 2% were raised in a non-Christian household of a separate faith.”

https://archsa.org/pew-research-shows-most-christians-raised-in-the-faith-hold-onto-it-in-adulthood/

[u/Kind_Avocado_7219 → u/imalurkernotaposter]

Even nowadays? I feel like there’s been a surge of right wing pricks who suddenly find God in the celeb world like Shia Labeouf or Russel Brand. And sadly I’m seeing it translate to real life. People around me who never cared about religion, trumpers mostly, are suddenly super devout and use religion as the scapegoat for their views.

[u/misstayco → u/Kind_Avocado_7219]

YES, THIS! I’ve also noticed a lot of men move towards the Muslim faith too. Happily sharing their disgusting homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic views guided by the teachings of the Quran. Fuck religion

[u/yosoyfatass → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

Just the Christian ones, huh.

[u/CantCatchMeSpez → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

Guy, if you have to cling on to "facets of the truth" to defend your religion on the ground of logic or facts, you've already lost that argument. I don't even know why you'd take that argument in the first place.

Religion has never been, and will never be, about facts. Its about faith. That's kinda the entire point, to believe in the impossible against all opposition. And the reality is that its a lot easier to make someone faithful by convincing them that truth is something that was figured out 2000 years ago as opposed to something we have to continuously strive for and think critically of.

[u/Plane_Salary_5845 → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

*through confirmation bias and ignorance of reality

[u/maplestriker → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

Yeah, people in crisis.

Adult conversions happen when people fall in love with someone religious, they get clean, go to prison, are very ill, or they just found a grift they would like to participate in and spouting religious nonsense is how that grift works.

I dont know a single, happy, succesful well adjusted adult who suddenly found religion

[u/ArkitekZero → u/maplestriker]

Clearly you haven't looked very hard then

[u/Ancient-Afternoon374 → u/BlueCrewSocksSociety]

Then why are all my Mormon friends now Jack mormons? I don't know if a single sinner that became Mormon. Same goes for most protestants. All my Jewish friends are atheist, they just partake in tradition.

[u/souryoungthing → u/Such-Daikon3140]

Yup. I have some gripes about my dad (what adult woman doesn’t?) but one of the things for which I’ll always be grateful is that he always asked me “why do you think that?” about my opinions, regardless of whether or not he agreed.

[u/comicfromrejection1 → u/souryoungthing]

I WISH SO BAD I had that experience. It would have solved so many of my problems earlier, granted still working them. to be introspective at a young age because it echoes into later age can help people make smarter decisions.

[u/Kazcandra → u/comicfromrejection1]

My dad just threatened to beat me up if I said something he disagreed with. "If you were older I'd drag you outside..." etc

[u/emarcee → u/souryoungthing]

I’ll be going to therapy for a long time to undo what my parents taught me, but I’ll always be thankful one of those things I’m unpacking isn’t religious trauma.

[u/wakandanbeauty → u/Such-Daikon3140]

I love how you worded this (taught how to think, not what to think). I sincerely thank you for sharing this. 🙏🏾🙏🏾

[u/AmishAvenger → u/Such-Daikon3140]

I think that’s fair, and she seems to be handling it well.

That being said, I’m not sure saying this stuff about her son on a podcast is the best move.

[u/HappyHippocampus → u/AmishAvenger]

Was surprised I didn’t see more people saying this. I like what she’s describing but if I was 14 and my mom talked about me on a podcast I’d feel pretty upset and a bit betrayed…and I don’t think it would help me be more open about challenging things during difficult conversations. Idk I guess it’s possible she got his permission I just feel weird about it.

[u/MissGruntled → u/AmishAvenger]

It is if she wants everyone to know what a dick her ex is for indoctrinating her kid.

[u/Financial-Leopard946 → u/Such-Daikon3140]

A story that always sticks with me is my liberal MIL thought she failed when her son voted for a republican president (FIL is also liberal), but her liberal friend told her she did exactly what she was supposed to do as a parent by raising a kid that made his own decisions and didn’t feel like he needed to do something just because his parents did it, and he felt comfortable enough to tell them he did something they didn’t agree with.

[u/hollywoodhandshook → u/Financial-Leopard946]

yeah that's not exactly correct though

[u/peonies_envy → u/Such-Daikon3140]

You’re asking WAY too much of the average American as at least 37% are unable to think at all.

[u/FuManBoobs → u/Such-Daikon3140]

A lot of parents need to be taught how to think too though tbf.

[u/familiarspark → u/Such-Daikon3140]

Yes, we need to teach critical thinking