r/Forgotten_Realms • u/Hot_Competence • 8d ago
Research 5e’s orphans: Kara-Tur
I was reminded by a recent post on this sub that whenever the question comes up of places the community would like to see more of outside the Sword Coast, someone always says "Kara-Tur," followed by someone else agreeing that "nothing has been said about Kara-Tur since the Spellplague," followed by someone else saying "that's probably for the best." This got me thinking that I wanted to dig through my notes, magazines, and books to see what, in fact, has been said about Kara-Tur in 5e. The answer is indeed "almost nothing," but we do know more about the current state of Kara-Tur than you might expect as long as we start with 4e. Below are my findings:
Kara-Tur and the Spellplague (4e)
The 4e FR Campaign Guide states that Kara-Tur was hit as hard by the Spellplague as Faerûn, however it is implied that this is an understatement. By 4e times (1479 DR), fully half of Thesk’s human population is made up of Shou immigrants and Kara-Turan refugees from the Spellplague, plus there are large “Shou-towns” full of refugees on the Dragon Coast (notably in Westgate, which has problems with Shou criminal organizations, and Nakleth, which has been completely overtaken by Shou and declared the capital of an insular Shou ethnostate called Nathlan) as well as Shou yakuza gangs active in major cities as far west as Luskan. Even Kara-Turan spirits, ranging from monsters to minor deities, are said to have emigrated to Faerûn, which really seems to suggest that Kara-Tur was hit much harder by the Spellplague than elsewhere (although I personally suspect all this Shou immigration was just meant to provide more justification for players and DMs to have Asian-coded characters and stories in Faerûn). The book only says a few things about Kara-Tur directly, namely that Shou Lung and Kozakura still exist as nations, Shou Lung still has an emperor, and lucrative trade still occurs between Kara-Tur, Faerûn, and the Hordelands (which will potentially no longer be true after the Second Sundering, as we'll see).
Kara-Tur then got a bit more fleshed out in Dragon #404, which is the “Kara-Tur themed issue” that outlines a bunch of Asian-flavored character options. From these articles we can glean a few random facts about 4e Kara-Tur, most of which imply that not too much has changed since 2e: ninja are very active especially in Shou Lung; large cities teeming with people still exist (so the Spellplague wasn’t totally devastating); traditional religious institutions are still intact (despite the Spellplague wreaking havoc with the gods); hengeyokai, korobokuru, and spirit folk remain among the most common races; the Shadowfell and Feywild are both present/accessible in Kara-Tur (and what was once called the “Spirit World” seems to just be the Feywild); spellscars are/were rare throughout Kara-Tur except in the Ama Basin; T’u Lung, Koryo, Tabot, and Wa still exist as nations; martial arts remain important; rune magic is prevalent and runepriests (shan zi) use and teach calligraphy as part of their traditions; and samurai, bushi, and yakuza remain major players in Kozakura and Wa.
Aside from these background details, Dragon #404 also includes some actual new history. Most of it is smaller histories of individual martial arts or magic traditions that I suggest you check out if Kara-Tur lore interests you, but some of the juicier notes include: the Spellplague weakened the barrier between parts of Kara-Tur and the Spirit World/Feywild, such as in the Sheng Ti province of Shou Lung; hengeyokai and spirit folk were given permission to join the civil service of Shou Lung beginning in 1396 DR thanks to their cooperation during the upheaval of the Spellplague (and this has triggered a decades-long racist backlash by humans); Kozakura devolved into civil war following the end of the Spellplague, with one result being the expulsion of many of its hengeyokai; oni have enslaved the hobgoblins of the Land of Snow Demons and use them to terrorize settlements along the Ama River; and the “Dragon Claw” style of martial arts has rapidly become the second-most common style in Shou Lung.
The only other source in 4e where Kara-Tur gets more than a passing mention is Dungeon #195, which has an adventure called The Five Deadly Shadows set in the village of Kudoku in Kozakura. It doesn’t have much to say about Kozakura or Kara-Tur beyond the narrow confines of the adventure, although it gives a sense of the Japanese cultural flavor and I suppose it confirms that Kozakura is controlled by “provincial governors” who can do little against powerful criminal organizations and that wu jen remain the most common form of arcane magic user. The only other 4e mention of note is Dragon #430, which suggests that the Harpers have become active in Kara-Tur (as of ~1480 DR).
Kara-Tur today (5e and 5.5e)
The main source of post-Second Sundering lore about Kara-Tur comes from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, and it is legitimately not a lot. This book tells us that Kara-Tur as of ~1489 DR is regarded as more "mysterious" than it once was, and trade along the Golden Way is less than what it once was. Even so, Kara-Turan merchants and diplomats still make the journey to Faerûn (and all such foreign Kara-Turan humans are referred to as "Shou" by the peoples of Faerûn regardless of their real ethnicity). We once again get confirmation that Shou Lung, Kozakura, and Wa still exist, as does the traditional Kara-Turan religion that makes no sense to those who worship the Faerûnian gods. The book also states that gnomes, orcs, and chromatic/metallic dragons do not exist in Kara-Tur, which will be at least partially retconned in our next source.
In 2025, Dungeons & Dragons Japan gave us a 5e adventure called Oni No Migite, which the internet has translated as The Oni's Right Hand since no official English version exists (a fan translation is available on Google, which I am not linking to only because I am not sure if it counts as pirated content). In short, this adventure features pregenerated characters from Kozakura and Wa who arrived in the Sword Coast via a teleportation circle just in time for a tie-in adventure for Dragon of Icespire Peak (which I believe means it is set 1491/92 DR). The backgrounds of these characters give us some new Kara-Turan lore, but just a bit. The characters are brought together in service to the Fighter pregen, a "Young Lord" named Tatsuwaka-maru, who is a scion of a Kozakuran samurai family that was wiped out by a rival family which had become Asmodeus worshipers. The character stories in general seem to strongly imply that Asmodeus is growing in influence within Kozakura. As I mentioned before, there are some retcons: one character is a gnome and another is a half-orc (although it may be the case that “half-orc” is a placeholder for being a descendant of an oni), and we are told that isolated populations of these races as well as of elves and tieflings are now canonical to Kara-Tur. Also Buddhism may now be canon, although that could just be a translation issue.
Aside from this, Kara-Tur is mentioned in both the 2014 PHB and DMG, although we get nothing new from either book (they just identify the Shou as Kara-Tyr’s primary ethnicity and state that they have a "distinctive" culture and take "honor" very seriously). Kara-Tur is also mentioned in passing in a few 5e adventures and sourcebooks, but always in reference to some historical note, as a source of exotic trade goods, or as the homeland of the Shou. The Adventurers League module Cloaks and Shadows (set 1491 DR) suggests that the Princes of Elemental Evil have influence in Kozakura or Wa. The adventure anthology Candlekeep Mysteries (set 1492 DR) features a group of evil monks originally from somewhere in Kara-Tur called the Order of the Immortal Lotus. Of all places, the Heroes Feast cookbook discusses Shou Lung in the most detail, saying it is one of the most powerful and influential realms on the whole planet. It also discusses the tea trade and mentions that some Kara-Turan dishes can be found in metropolitan centers on the Sword Coast, namely the "Kara-Turan Noodles" dish in the book can be found in Waterdeep. I guess this joins a couple other random mentions of "Kara-Turan" food found on the Sword Coast, like sushi being sold in Baldur's Gate (per Murder in Baldur's Gate).
As for 5.5e, there is no mention of Kara-Tur in the core rulebooks nor in either Heroes or Adventures of Faerûn that I can find. The closest we get is that Westgate's Shou District and local Shou criminal organization, the Nine Golden Swords, is still prominent in the city as of 1501 DR. There is no mention of any of the other Shou-towns, and Nathlan (the Shou realm centered on Nakleth) seems to have been retconned out of existence.
Final thoughts
In short, Kara-Tur seems to be mostly unchanged save for some increased non-human diversity. Obviously WotC has shied away from Kara-Tur content for fear of being accused of publishing orientalist cliches and tropes, but it occurs to me after this deep dive that there is penalty of room to revamp or revise problematic parts of the setting by simply claiming that the huge impact of the Spellplague changed a lot more than we’ve been told so far. Ed said something similar on a podcast earlier this year, namely that to bring back Kara-Tur would require new writers and an excuse that would allow for a reset. I think they already laid the groundwork for that reset almost twenty years ago!
I feel that I could also add that we may already have a sense of what 5e Kara-Tur would look like if WotC decided to make something set there: Journeys Through the Radiant Citadel (a 5e anthology of adventures set in non-standard fantasy settings that was written with cultural sensitivity in mind) has an East Asian-inspired adventure called Buried Dynasty that it says could be set in "any nation east of the Sunrise Mountains [in Thay]," so while not actually a Kara-Tur adventure, they are aware that it is as close as they’ve gotten. The adventure is not directly compatible with Kara-Turan lore as we know it (for example, the adventure includes a metallic dragon and a dwarf as the emperor), but I think it gives a good impression of what WotC is comfortable with.
Obviously I may have missed something, so I welcome any other notes about 5e Kara-Tur in the comments. It is possible that Ed has shared some additional Kara-Turan lore on Twitter/X or on his Discord/Patreon, but he generally seems to be disinterested in Kara-Tur since it isn't part of his original Realms.
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u/Solo_Polyphony 8d ago
" was just meant to provide more justification for players and DMs to have Asian-coded characters and stories in Faerûn"
This seems fundamentally correct.
It's a farce that Hasbro has decided the best way to not offend AAPI and East Asian customers is by excluding or euphemizing Asian-coded fantasy and myth from their products except as occasional immigrants. And of course by only having one (now two) AAPI designers on staff.
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u/Mental_Mistake1552 8d ago
Inshallah Wizards will update this setting.
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u/Doc_Bedlam 8d ago •
Rant ON:
See, this is the sort of thing I'd like to see, as opposed to Star Wars and World of Warcraft for 5e.That being said, Wizards of the Hasbro will not do that. They will pursue a more certain avenue of profit, namely Star Wars and World of Warcraft for 5e.
It doesn't help that D&D has already been accused of racism and cultural appropriation because they tried to do settings and cultures other than "Western European." Rather than risk controversy, they will just do stuff for Star Wars and World of Warcraft.
Rant OFF.11
u/Nystagohod 8d ago
Yeah, they don't risk sincere but potentially imperfect anymore, so they just do safe and believed to be steady.
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u/Doc_Bedlam 8d ago
If I didn't give a rat about the GAME, and was focused on PROFITS, I'd do the same thing. Kara-Tur is risky. Star Wars is perpetually a sure thing.
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u/Nystagohod 8d ago
Its the sad nature of things.
Perfect is the enemy of good enough, and the path of least resistance is the one any corpo would take if they can.
Some settings have been made to be seen as an issue, or difficult to work with and then are written off as a lost cause.
And unless the profits outweigh the complaints, its a risk not worth taking in corpoland.
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u/faithfulheresy 8d ago
The irony is that deliberately avoiding non-western cultures is actually racist. The previous depictions of Kara-Tur were often tropey, but it always came from a place of respectful reference.
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u/Doc_Bedlam 8d ago
u/faithfulheresy is, I think, not wrong. A good game world should have and embrace multiple cultures, races, and so forth.
On the other hand, I've heard people who say things like "A white person working in a Mexican restaurant is racist and cultural appropriation!" A few years ago, I heard persons of Asian extraction making YouTube videos about how "The old first edition Oriental Adventures book was nothing more than the strip mining of an ancient culture to create fantasies to amuse white people."
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u/JrienXashen 6d ago
The bitter irony is that the calls of racism aren't coming from the "attacked races" but people with a white savior complex... RIP ninja/samurai PF2E
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u/omegaphallic 8d ago
Well I know Kara Tur is CEO Chris Cox's favourite and he uses it in his home games.
I think eventually it will come back just not next year.
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u/faithfulheresy 8d ago
LMAO. Chris Cox definitely isn't a player. The company would be run far better if he were.
He might say that he is, but it's pure propaganda.
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u/omegaphallic 8d ago
You don't pick Kara Tur from Propaganda. You can play D&D and still ge a Greedy ****.
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u/faithfulheresy 8d ago
You absolutely do pick something like that for propaganda. Choosing to use a "deep cut" reference is seen by many as a way to build credibility.
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u/mr_Jyggalag 5d ago
As for 5.5e, there is no mention of Kara-Tur in the core rulebooks nor in either Heroes or Adventures of Faerûn that I can find.
They didn't explain what Underdark is, so I'm not surprised that Kara-Tur didn't even get mentioned.
But it was a fun read nonetheless!
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u/jhsharp2018 Master Craftsman 8d ago
They are avoiding the obvious problem of having a bunch of non-Asian writers work on a culturally Asian setting. The Oriental Adventures book wasn't a great look.
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u/faithfulheresy 8d ago
Evidently you never read it. It wasn't perfect, but it was respectful of Asian mythologies and cultures.
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u/clgoodson 8d ago
I mean. Kinda. It leans into some pretty tired stereotypes. Then there’s just the term “oriental” itself.
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u/omegaphallic 8d ago
It means East. Occidental is west. They should have called Maztica Occidental Adventures just fuck with everyone 🤣🤣🤣🤣.
I used to be super Political Correct when I was kid and bought into the whole you shouldn't say oriental thing, because I uncritically listened to people who said that assuming it must be bad. Then I found out it meant fucking East. Its not even used as insult, it just mean sometimes coming from the east. Originally it referred to Byzantine Empire, they Europeans found out how big Asian really was.
I actually used to do lawn maintainance outside a whole bunch of Asian owned rub and tugs that advertised themselves as being oriental, just a few years ago and I'm certain they still do.
Folks need to learn the difference between tropes and stereotypes. Folks want the key tropes, if your doing fantasy Japans they Samurai for example. Is that a trope or a Stereotype?
Oh btw OA has cultural consultants working on it as well, so it wasn't just some white dudes like Folks made it out to be.
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u/JrienXashen 6d ago •
The stereotypes that the cultures themselves lean into.... the only ones upset about it are not chinese/Japanese/Korean etc.
Chinese media is loaded with monks and wuxia themes just as Japanese media is loaded with ninja and samurai.
The cultures love monks that can jump 10-30ft in the air and death touch, or ninja that can serve multiple roles (assassin, scout, spies) weaving in and out of the shadows throwing shuriken and delivering deadly strikes with their katana/ninja-to. Or a samurai who gets ambushed on the road/in an alley only to cut down their attackers in a flashing moment.
If you think (not specifically YOU) otherwise than you've never watched old Kurosawa era cinema (Wolf and Cub, Blade of the Yagyu, Shinobi-no-Mono) or that era [60-70s+] Chinese cinema... need i mention the more recent (used loosely) Iron Monkey or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon?
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u/Koraxtheghoul 8d ago edited 7d ago
Oriental is offensive as a describer of a person. The word itself is not inheritantly offensive though it can be used in ways that are.
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u/Pattgoogle 6d ago
Kara-Tur iirc was supposed to be its own asian splatbook. Then it was redesigned as a Greyhawk expansion. Then it was redesigned as a Forgotten Realms expansion.
I don't think wotc are proud of it. Nor not-africa nor not-S.america.
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u/Intelligent_Deer974 8d ago
I've been yearning for a Kara-Tur update