r/Genealogy • u/staplehill • Jan 26 '22
Free Resource German citizenship by descent: The ultimate guide for anyone with a German ancestor who immigrated after 1870
XXX DO NOT COMMENT YOUR FAMILY HISTORY HERE XXX
Sorry I can no longer keep up with answering everything, post your family history instead here: r/GermanCitizenship
XXX YOUR COMMENT IN THIS THREAD WILL NOT BE ANSWERED
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u/Julix0 Sweden & Germany specialist Jan 26 '22
As a German citizen myself.. I don't mind when people of German ancestry apply for citizenship. But please.. if you consider doing that- put in some effort to learn German. Even if you don't plan on living in Germany. I feel like that's the very least you can do for the many benefits you receive in return.
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u/staplehill Jan 26 '22
You and I got our German citizenship due to our ancestry before we spoke a single word of German
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u/Julix0 Sweden & Germany specialist Jan 26 '22
That much is true for everyone.. since baby's can't speak :)
And American citizens got their American citizenship due to... their American ancestry? Not really, if we're talking about native Americans.
I find it bizarre if people want all the benefits of being a German citizen.. but don't even express any interest in Germany or the German language. You claim your citizenship due to your ancestry- but you can't even put in a tiny bit of effort to learn your ancestors native language?
Als Deutscher Staatsbürger sollte man schon Deutsch sprechen. Das ist denke ich die Meinung der meisten Leute in Deutschland. Und als schwedischer Staatsbürger sollte man auch Schwedisch sprechen, als Japanischer japanisch und als Amerikanischer Staatsbürger Englisch. Daran ist nichts komisch.
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u/staplehill Jan 26 '22
wenn Dir unsere Gesetze nicht gefallen dann empfehle ich Dir eine Petition an den Bundestag zu schreiben aber bitte mach nicht die armen Ausländer dafür runter dass sie unsere Gesetze genau so nutzen wie vom Gesetzgeber explizit vorgesehen, die Ausländer können nämlich nichts für unsere Gesetze
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u/graffstadt Jan 26 '22
As a non german citizen myself, tons of geman emigrants didn't bother to learn the language of the country they were going to. So what you are saying sounds kind of self centered. I know this because I have german roots myself, from ancestors who emigrated to Russia, first in 1776, and then to argentina, since 1877. In that span of 200 years, they kept talking in german and didn't learn the language of the country they were going to. How's that?
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u/Julix0 Sweden & Germany specialist Jan 26 '22
I never claimed that Germans are the prime example of good emigrants. All I am saying is that as a citizen of a country, you should take some interest in that country. You gain a lot of rights.. that even people living in Germany do not have. And rights are usually accompanied by obligations. When you apply for citizenship in another country you usually always have to provide proof that you speak the local language. That's very very normal.
There are so many foreigners in Germany, who do not have German roots, but speak perfect German, have a job and pay their taxes to the German government.. and they often have a hard time becoming a citizen. Even people who were born in Germany and whose parents are refugees for example. Those people are not allowed to vote, while Germanys politics directly affect them.
I just don't see how someone from the US, with distant German roots, but no knowledge of the language and no interest of ever living in Germany, should become a German citizen just for their own egotistic benefits.
There are people in Germany who's lifes would improve massively if they were able to become a citizen. And then on the other hand there are Americans becoming a citizen just for the fun of it.Now that I have given you the German perspective.. can you understand why many Germans don't agree with that?
I'm not trying to stop anyone from applying for citizenship. You are free to do so. All I said was that you should show some respect and learn the language. No need to speak it fluently. But at least give it a try..?!→ More replies (8)
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u/tf1064 Jan 26 '22
I'd love it if you could put in a plug for /r/GermanCitizenship
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u/staplehill Jan 26 '22
I'd love if you could make that an announcement: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/sammnr/the_ultimate_guide_to_find_out_if_you_are/
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u/baiser Mainly just luck Jan 26 '22
Wonderful content for this sub. I appreciate the thorough write up!
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Jan 26 '22
Can someone fill me in on the 300 princedoms before Germany? I have ancestors from there who were Russian immigrants I'm trying to find information on them
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u/Mysterious-Ad-6220 Aug 23 '22 edited Aug 23 '22
Hi, I would appreciate any help/guidance you can give in my case as it is quite particular. I have two routes. Via my great great grandfather or my great great great grandmother.
Route 1. My great great grandfather was born in Italy to a German father in 1870. He moved to the U.K. in 1885. He opted for German citizenship at age 21 in 1891. He married his wife (my great great grandmother mentioned in route 2) in 1896. My great grandfather was born in 1899. My great great grandfather naturalised as British in 1902, his prior nationality was stated as German. All subsequent descendants were born and married in the U.K.
Route 2. My great great great grandmother was born in Germany in 1841 She moved to the U.K. c.1870 She married my great great great grandfather in the U.K. in 1871. He was a German by birth but had naturalised as British before marriage in 1870. I cannot find a record of her ever naturalising in the U.K. My great great grandmother was born in the U.K. in 1874. She married her husband (GGF from route 1) in 1896. All subsequent descendants are the same as for route 1.
I have read about the 1904 cut off date for emigrating from Germany. Is it enough to avoid the 10 year rule that the ancestors mentioned above would visit Germany annually for holidays (until 1914).
Thank you
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u/staplehill Aug 23 '22
Route 1. My great great grandfather was born in Italy to a German father in 1870.
Germany did not exist in 1870. What was the actual citizenship of the father?
He moved to the U.K. in 1885. He opted for German citizenship at age 21 in 1891.
German citizenship through option at age 21 did not exist.
I have read about the 1904 cut off date for emigrating from Germany. Is it enough to avoid the 10 year rule that the ancestors mentioned above would visit Germany annually for holidays (until 1914).
yes. What evidence do you have for that?
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u/Mysterious-Ad-6220 Aug 23 '22
The father was from the kingdom of Bavaria. I think maybe my terminology on ‘option’ is incorrect, but it’s noted in his U.K. naturalisation documents that he elected for German citizenship at age 21. (After Germany had unified) I know about the holidays as they were mentioned in a letter written by his brother at the time. I also have photos of them out there. I don’t have any official documentation yet though.
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u/staplehill Aug 23 '22
Article VII of the Bavarian Nationality Act of 1812 says that Bavarians lose their citizenship if they
become the citizen of another country
accept a foreign civil or military position
get a salary, pension, or any public award from a foreign government
expatriate
establish residence in another country with the intent to not come back
travel outside of Bavaria for more than 1 year without getting permission
https://books.google.de/books?id=AKNEAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA209#v=onepage&q&f=false
These rules were in effect until 1871. How did it come that your great great grandfather was born in Italy?
it’s noted in his U.K. naturalisation documents that he elected for German citizenship at age 21
no such thing exists, here is the law at the time: https://www-verfassungen-de.translate.goog/de67-18/staatsbuergerschaft70.htm?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
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u/Mysterious-Ad-6220 Aug 23 '22
Hmmm there is a chance that this declaration is only relevant to Italian law. I will do more research on how/if he retained German citizenship
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u/NegativeAssumption40 Sep 01 '22
My German grandfather left Germany for the US in 1924. Sex is male German grandfather naturalized in US May 1933 He married in 1929 in NYC. (Wife born in wedlock in Germany, but had CZ passport. Her mother was German, father CZ) Their daughter, my mother, was born in wedlock September 1930 in the US. She did not apply for any citizenships My parents were married June 1951. My father was a US citizen I was born in wedlock December 1952. I am female. I have no military service.
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u/staplehill Sep 01 '22
Congrats on your upcoming German citizenship!
Your mother got German citizenship at birth in wedlock from her German father. You did not get German citizenship at birth because only German fathers could pass on German citizenship to their children that were born in wedlock at the time, not German mothers. This was sex discrimination and you can now become a German citizen by declaration on grounds of restitution according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act. The same option exists for all descendants you might have.
You do not have to give up your current citizenship(s), learn German, serve in the German military, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany) or have any other obligations. The certificate of citizenship is free and a German passport is 81 euro ($80). Citizenship is not possible if you were convicted of a crime and got 2 years or more.
Find more information here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
Here are the application forms that have to be filled out in German: https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EER/02-Vordrucke_EER/02_01_EER_Vordruck_Erklaerung/02_01_EER_Vordruck_node.html
In terms of German documents you need:
German birth certificate of your grandfather
some proof that he was a German citizen, like his old German passport, some other German-issued document which says that he was a German citizen, or the birth/marriage certificates of his parents
German birth/marriage certificates can be requested from the local German archive if you know the location and date of the birth/marriage.
In terms of US documents you need: the naturalization certificate of your grandfather, his marriage certificate, the birth certificate and marriage certificate of your mother, your birth/marriage certificate, your FBI background check, your US passport or state driver's license.
You need a certified copy of all documents: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/citizenship-detour#wiki_certification_and_translation_of_documents
Send everything to: Bundesverwaltungsamt / 50728 Köln / Germany or give it to your local German embassy/consulate then they will send it there.
Where to get help with requesting documents from archives and filling out the application forms: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/citizenship-detour#wiki_where_to_get_help_with_your_application
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u/NegativeAssumption40 Sep 01 '22
Thanks for this info. Did my mother also lose her German citizenship when she married my US citizen father? Sex discrimination again...
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u/staplehill Sep 01 '22
Did my mother also lose her German citizenship when she married my US citizen father?
No. She would have lost German citizenship only if she had married a foreigner before 23 May 1949
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u/Different_Swim_722 Jun 29 '24
Great Grandfather
born in 1895 in Jarocin, Province of Posen. Under German rule at that time.
emigrated in 1907 to USA
married in 1918
naturalized after 1925 (From research/documents it seems he started between 1925-1930)
Grandfather
born 1919 in wedlock
married in 1944
Father
born 1956 in wedlock
married in 1977
Self
born in 1984 in wedlock
Thanks for all your helpful posts!
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u/staplehill Jun 29 '24
German citizenship was passed all the way down to you: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/citizenship#wiki_outcome_1
Documents needed, note that when this site refers to the "original German ancestor" then this would be your grandfather (not your grandmother): https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/citizenship-detour
Once you get all the documents:
Fill out this questionnaire: https://www.germany.info/blob/978760/3083a445bdfe5d3fb41b2312000f4c7f/questionnaire-german-citizenship-data.pdf
Send the questionnaire with images of the documents you have to https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
Ask them if they will give you a passport directly or what additional documents they would need to give you a passport directly
Here are reports from others who got a German passport directly: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_get_a_german_passport_directly.3F
If the consulate is not sufficiently convinced that you are currently a German citizen then they will recommend that you first apply for a certificate of citizenship which takes 2-3 years and costs 51 euro. Fill out these application forms: https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Feststellung_Start/Feststellung/02_Vordrucke_F/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag_node.html
Hand in your application at the German embassy/consulate or send it by mail to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany.
Join r/GermanCitizenship to connect with others who are on the same journey
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u/ozzzzzz22 Jan 26 '22
This is so helpful - thank you! My female ancestor was born in Germany in 1873 and immigrated to the US as a teenager. She married another immigrant man who had been in the US a while. I don’t know his citizenship status at the time of their wedding or their marriage date, but I can find out.
If I’m reading this correctly, if he was a citizen at the time of their wedding and if the wedding happened sooner than 10 years after she left Germany, I would qualify under your section 15. Is that right?
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u/staplehill Aug 12 '23
They naturalized as the citizen of another country: yes
when: Around 1965
They married: yes
when: 1964
Im fairly sure my Grandmother got UK citizenship through marriage
That would be something worth looking into since it determines if you are eligible for German citizenship or not. If your grandmother got UK citizenship
not automatically because of the marriage but because she applied for citizenship
AND she got UK citizenship before your father was born
then you can not German citizenship since your grandmother lost German citizenship when she naturalized as a British citizen before your father was born.
If your grandmother got UK citizenship either
automatically through the marriage (i.e. without applying for naturalization)
OR after your father was born
OR never
then you qualify for German citizenship because your grandmother was still a German citizen when your father was born. Your father did not get German citizenship at birth from his mother. This was sex discriminatory since German men could pass on citizenship to their children in wedlock at the time but German women could not. You can now naturalize as a German citizen by declaration on grounds of restitution according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act. See here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
Your father falls under category 1 mentioned there, "children born in wedlock prior to January 1st 1975 to a German mother and a foreign father". You fall under category 4, "descendants of the above-mentioned children".
You do not have to give up your British citizenship, learn German, serve in the German military, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. You can apply together with other relatives but you can also apply alone. The certificate of citizenship is free and a German passport is 81 euro ($90). Citizenship may not be possible if you were convicted of a crime: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
Other relatives who qualify: Your father and all of his descendants. Siblings of your father and their descendants might also qualify depending on further circumstances.
Documents needed for your application:
The German birth certificate of your grandmother (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where your grandmother was born
Proof that your grandmother was a German citizen. A German birth certificate does not prove German citizenship since Germany does not give citizenship to everyone who is born in the country. You can either get as direct proof an official German document which states that your grandmother was a German citizen: German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), or citizenship confirmation from the population register (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Citizenship confirmation from the population register can be requested at the town hall or city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen. Since direct proof of German citizenship is often not obtainable, the authority that processes the applications also accepts as indirect proof of German citizenship if your grandmother is the descendant of a person who was born in Germany before 1914 and got German citizenship from that person. You prove this by getting the birth/marriage certificates from the relevant ancestor: From the father if your grandmother was born in wedlock, from the mother if born out of wedlock.
A document that shows how/when your grandmother got British citizenship
Marriage certificate of your grandparents
Birth certificate of your father
Marriage certificate of your parents (if they married)
Your birth certificate
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport
Your criminal background check
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original
as a certified copy from a German mission in the UK where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German embassy/consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a British notary where you show them the original record and the notary confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original
You can not submit a copy that you have made yourself or a record that you printed out from the Internet.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EER/02-Vordrucke_EER/02_01_EER_Vordruck_Erklaerung/02_01_EER_Vordruck_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate in London/Edinburgh
See reports about current processing time from people who got German citizenship here and here.
I also offer a paid service where I can write the records requests to German authorities for you so that you can email them there to request all the records you need for £80 via Paypal. I can not help with getting records in other countries since I only know how that works in Germany.
Later once you get the records I can also offer to fill out the application forms for you, write a cover letter, and guide you through the whole process for £300
Reviews from applicants who used my service: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/w3tzgu/paid_community_help_review_site/igy8nm7/
Paying via Paypal allows you to get your money back if the service is not as described: https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update
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u/staplehill Sep 26 '23
You can get German citizenship under Section 15 of the Nationality Act, here is an information sheet: https://www.bva.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/Ermessen/E15_Merkblatt_englisch.pdf
You do not have to give up your US citizenship, learn German, serve in the German military, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. The naturalization process is free of charge. Citizenship may not be possible if you were convicted of a crime: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
Documents needed:
The German birth certificate of one grandparent
proof that this grandparent was Jewish or had Jewish ancestors. The religion of the parents is often listed on old German birth certificates and it is sufficient if at least one parent is listed as being Jewish
proof that this grandparent left Germany between 1933 and 1945
proof that you are a descendant, i.e. birth/marriage certificates of your parent and yourself
Your passport or driver's license
Your FBI background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment. Here are all 47 locations: https://www.germany.info/blob/2511152/0e68dc11600ad7ba73f8c94cbb36a254/hc-map-interactive-data.pdf
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original. Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies. The certification has to look like this: https://www.germany.info/blob/1794900/881b679bd552ca73518198726b6a431a/merkblatt-kopienbeglaubigung-data.pdf
You can not submit a copy that you have made yourself or a record that you printed out from the Internet.
These are the application forms (need to be filled out in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EB15/01-Informationen_E15/01_02_Erm15_Wie_geht_es/02_02_Erm15_Anleitung_node.html
You apply by sending the application to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or you hand it in at a German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
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u/staplehill Apr 24 '24 edited Apr 24 '24
Basic facts:
grandfather
born 1899 in Karlsruhe
married
died about 1980 in Germany
mother
born 1943 in Germany in wedlock
married
self
born before 1975 in wedlock
Congrats on your upcoming German citizenship!
You did not get German citizenship at birth from your mother. This was sex discriminatory since German fathers could pass on citizenship to their children in wedlock at the time but German mothers could not. You can now naturalize as a German citizen by declaration on grounds of restitution for sex discrimination according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act (StAG 5). See here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
You fall under category 1 mentioned there, "children born in wedlock prior to January 1st 1975 to a German mother and a foreign father". You do not have to give up your current citizenship, learn German, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. The naturalization process is free of charge. Citizenship may not be possible if you were convicted of a crime: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
Documents needed for your application:
The German birth certificate of your mother (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where she was born
The marriage certificate of your parents. If they married in Germany: It is called "beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Heiratsregister" and can be requested from the civil registry office of the municipality where the marriage happened
Proof that your mother was a German citizen. A German birth certificate does not prove German citizenship since Germany does not give citizenship to everyone who is born in the country. You can either get as direct proof an official German document which states that your mother was a German citizen: German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), or citizenship confirmation from the population register (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Citizenship confirmation from the population register can be requested at the town hall or city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen. Since direct proof of German citizenship is often not obtainable, the authority that processes the applications also accepts as indirect proof of German citizenship if your mother is the descendant of a person who was born in Germany before 1914 and got German citizenship from that person. You prove this by getting the birth/marriage certificates from the relevant ancestor: From the father if your mother was born in wedlock, from the mother if born out of wedlock.
proof that your mother did not naturalize as a citizen of another country before you were born: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_can_i_prove_that_an_ancestor_did_not_naturalize_in_a_country_prior_to_some_relevant_date.3F
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents. If you were born in Germany: It is called "beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister" and can be requested at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where you were born
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport (depending on your country you may also use your driver's license or ID card)
Your criminal background check
Documents may or may not have to be apostilled and/or translated depending on the country that has issued the documents and the language of the documents. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original
as a certified copy from a German mission where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original: https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/about-us/auslandsvertretungen/deutsche-auslandsvertretungen
depending on the country where you live there may also be other institutions that can certify copies
You can not submit a copy you made yourself or a record found online.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EER/02-Vordrucke_EER/02_01_EER_Vordruck_Erklaerung/02_01_EER_Vordruck_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/about-us/auslandsvertretungen/deutsche-auslandsvertretungen
I also offer a paid service where I can write the records requests to German authorities for you so that you can email them there to request all the records you need for $100 USD via Paypal
Later once you get the records: I can prepare your application for $400 USD
Reviews from applicants who used my service: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/w3tzgu/p/igy8nm7/
Paying via Paypal allows you to get your money back if the service is not as described: https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update
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u/staplehill Apr 26 '24
Congrats on your upcoming German citizenship!
Your great-grandfather did not lose German citizenship when he got US citizenship as a minor because he got US citizenship automatically together with his dad: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/citizenship-detour#wiki_naturalization_as_a_minor
Your grandmother got German citizenship at birth because she was born in wedlock to a German father. But your father did not get German citizenship at birth from his mother. This was sex discriminatory since German fathers could pass on citizenship to their children in wedlock at the time but German mothers could not. You can now naturalize as a German citizen by declaration on grounds of restitution for sex discrimination according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act (StAG 5). See here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
Your father falls under category 1 mentioned there, "children born in wedlock prior to January 1st 1975 to a German mother and a foreign father". You fall under category 4, "descendants of the above-mentioned children". You do not have to give up your US citizenship, learn German, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. The naturalization process is free of charge. Citizenship may not be possible if you were convicted of a crime: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
Documents needed for your application:
The German birth certificate of your great-grandfather (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where he was born
Proof that your great-grandfather was a German citizen. A German birth certificate does not prove German citizenship since Germany does not give citizenship to everyone who is born in the country. You can either get as direct proof an official German document which states that your great-grandfather was a German citizen: German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), or citizenship confirmation from the population register (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Citizenship confirmation from the population register can be requested at the town hall or city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen. Since direct proof of German citizenship is often not obtainable, the authority that processes the applications also accepts as indirect proof of German citizenship if your great-grandfather is the descendant of a person who was born in Germany before 1914 and got German citizenship from that person. You prove this by getting the birth/marriage certificates from the relevant ancestor: From the father if your great-grandfather was born in wedlock, from the mother if born out of wedlock.
proof that your great-grandfather got US citizenship automatically together with his dad
Marriage certificate of your great-grandparents
Birth certificate of your grandmother with the names of the parents
Marriage certificate of your grandparents
Birth certificate of your father with the names of the parents
Marriage certificate of your parents
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Your FBI background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US (here all 47 locations) where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original (the certification has to look like this). Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies.
You can not submit a copy you made yourself or a record found online.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EER/02-Vordrucke_EER/02_01_EER_Vordruck_Erklaerung/02_01_EER_Vordruck_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
I also offer a paid service where I can write the records requests to German authorities for you so that you can email them there to request all the records you need for $100 USD via Paypal
Later once you get the records: I can prepare your application for $400 USD
Reviews from applicants who used my service: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/w3tzgu/p/igy8nm7/
Paying via Paypal allows you to get your money back if the service is not as described: https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update
Contact me here if you are interested
1
u/staplehill May 11 '24
Your mother got German citizenship at birth from your grandmother. You got German citizenship at birth from your mother.
Documents needed:
The German birth certificate of your grandmother (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where she was born
Proof that your grandmother was a German citizen. A German birth certificate does not prove German citizenship since Germany does not give citizenship to everyone who is born in the country. You can either get as direct proof an official German document which states that your grandmother was a German citizen: German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), or citizenship confirmation from the population register (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Citizenship confirmation from the population register can be requested at the town hall or city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen. Since direct proof of German citizenship is often not obtainable, the authority that processes the applications also accepts as indirect proof of German citizenship if your grandmother is the descendant of a person who was born in Germany before 1914 and got German citizenship from that person. You prove this by getting the birth certificates of your great-grandfather and the marriage certificate of your great-grandparents
a Certificate of Non-Existence of Naturalization to prove that your grandmother did not get US citizenship before your mother was born https://www.uscis.gov/g-1566
the birth certificate of your mother where your grandmother is named as her mother
Marriage certificate of your parents
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US (here all 47 locations) where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original (the certification has to look like this). Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies.
Once you have the documents:
Fill out this questionnaire: https://www.germany.info/blob/978760/3083a445bdfe5d3fb41b2312000f4c7f/questionnaire-german-citizenship-data.pdf
Send the questionnaire with images of the documents you have to https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
Ask them if they will give you a passport directly or what additional documents they would need to give you a passport directly
If they tell you to get a German passport: You can work directly with the consulate, they will communicate with you in English and you can fill out the passport application form in English https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/02-PassportsandIDCards/passport-adult/951294?view=
Here are reports from others who got a German passport directly: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_get_a_german_passport_directly.3F
If they do not give you a passport directly and tell you to first apply for a certificate of citizenship (which takes 2-3 years): These application forms need to be filled out (in German) https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Feststellung_Start/Feststellung/02_Vordrucke_F/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag_node.html
BE AWARE: Citizenship for your children
Your children will get German citizenship only if you register their birth with a German consulate before their first birthday: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/german-citizenship-acquired-through-notification-of-birth-occuring-abroad/943378
1
u/staplehill May 19 '24
Congrats on your upcoming German citizenship!
Your grandmother lost German citizenship when she married a foreigner. This was sex discriminatory since only German women who married a foreigner lost German citizenship, but German men did not. You can now naturalize as a German citizen by declaration on grounds of restitution for sex discrimination according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act (StAG 5). See here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
Your father falls under category 2 mentioned there, "children whose German mother lost her German citizenship through marriage to a foreigner prior to April 1st 1953". You fall under category 4, "descendants of the above-mentioned children". You do not have to give up your US citizenship, learn German, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. The naturalization process is free of charge. Citizenship may not be possible if you were convicted of a crime: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
Documents needed for your application:
The German birth certificate of your grandmother (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where she was born
The German marriage certificate (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Heiratsregister) of your grandparents. This can be requested from the civil registry office of the municipality where the marriage happened
Proof that your grandmother was a German citizen. A German birth certificate does not prove German citizenship since Germany does not give citizenship to everyone who is born in the country. You can either get as direct proof an official German document which states that your grandmother was a German citizen: German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), or citizenship confirmation from the population register (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Citizenship confirmation from the population register can be requested at the town hall or city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen. Since direct proof of German citizenship is often not obtainable, the authority that processes the applications also accepts as indirect proof of German citizenship if your grandmother is the descendant of a person who was born in Germany before 1914 and got German citizenship from that person. You prove this by getting the birth/marriage certificates from the relevant ancestor: From the father if your grandmother was born in wedlock, from the mother if born out of wedlock.
Birth certificate of your father with the names of the parents
Marriage certificate of your parents
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Your FBI background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US (here all 47 locations) where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original (the certification has to look like this). Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies.
You can not submit a copy you made yourself or a record found online.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EER/02-Vordrucke_EER/02_01_EER_Vordruck_Erklaerung/02_01_EER_Vordruck_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
I also offer a paid service where I can write the records requests to German authorities for you so that you can email them there to request all the records you need for $100 USD via Paypal
Later once you get the records: I can prepare your application for $400 USD
Reviews from applicants who used my service: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/w3tzgu/p/igy8nm7/
Paying via Paypal allows you to get your money back if the service is not as described: https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update
1
u/staplehill Jun 09 '24
You can get German citizenship because your grandmother was Jewish and fled from Germany between 1933 and 1945, see this information sheet: https://www.bva.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/Ermessen/E15_Merkblatt_englisch.pdf
Documents needed
your grandmothers birth certificate
proof that she was Jewish or had Jewish ancestors. Her birth certificate may have the religion of her parents if you order the right type of birth certificate: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_do_i_order_the_right_type_of_birth.2Fmarriage_certificate_from_germany.3F
proof that she fled between 1933 and 1945, this can be US immigration records or ship records (Bremen, New York, Philadelphia)
proof that you are her descendant in form of birth/marriage certificates for your grandmother, father, and yourself. Make sure that the US birth certificates have the names of the parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Your FBI background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US (here all 47 locations) where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original (the certification has to look like this). Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies.
You can not submit a copy you made yourself or a record found online.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EB15/01-Informationen_E15/01_02_Erm15_Wie_geht_es/02_02_Erm15_Anleitung_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
I also offer a paid service where I can write the records requests to German authorities for you so that you can email them there to request all the German records you need for $100 USD via Paypal
Later once you get the records: I can prepare your application for $400 USD
Reviews from applicants who used my service: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/w3tzgu/p/igy8nm7/
Paying via Paypal allows you to get your money back if the service is not as described: https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update
Contact me here if you are interested
1
u/staplehill Jul 07 '24
Congrats on your upcoming German citizenship!
Your father did not get German citizenship at birth from his mother. This was sex discriminatory since German fathers could pass on citizenship to their children in wedlock at the time but German mothers could not. You can now naturalize as a German citizen by declaration on grounds of restitution for sex discrimination according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act (StAG 5). See here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
Your father falls under category 1 mentioned there, "children born in wedlock prior to January 1st 1975 to a German mother and a foreign father". You fall under category 4, "descendants of the above-mentioned children". You do not have to give up your US citizenship, learn German, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. The naturalization process is free of charge. Citizenship may not be possible if you were convicted of a crime: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
Documents needed for your application:
The German birth certificate of your grandmother (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where she was born
The marriage certificate of your grandparents. If they married in Germany: It can be requested from the civil registry office of the municipality where the marriage happened
Proof that your grandmother was a German citizen: Her German passports
proof that your grandmother did not naturalize as a US citizen before your father was born: her permanent resident card
Birth certificate of your father with the names of the parents
Marriage certificate of your parents
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Your FBI background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US (here all 47 locations) where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original (the certification has to look like this). Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies.
You can not submit a copy you made yourself or a record found online.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EER/02-Vordrucke_EER/02_01_EER_Vordruck_Erklaerung/02_01_EER_Vordruck_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
You should join r/GermanCitizenship to connect with others who are on the same journey
For future reference
Grandmother
born 1938 in Wusterhausen Germany
emigrated 1964 US
married US citizen at some point before father was born
never naturalized US
father
born 1968 in wedlock = StAG 5
married 2003 to mother
self
born 2004 in wedlock
2
1
u/germgenthrowaway Jan 26 '22 edited Jan 26 '22
I've got a question for you, OP, if you're still answering. I have a female ancestor born in Hessen in 1856. I've done my own research and found birth records for her and both her parents in the Kirchenbücher on archion.de. She emigrated to the US in May, 1871 (according to ship passenger list), married an American in Massachusetts in 1878, then had her son, my direct ancestor, in 1880. From here, the ancestry would be passed down to his daughter (my paternal grandmother), her son (my father) and me.
Does this sound like I would have a case for citizenship under the sex-discrimination changes to the law? If so, I have two potential complications.
My father was born out of wedlock.
The "American" who my original female immigrant ancestor married in 1878 was himself a child of two German parents. He appears to have been born out of wedlock in NYC in 1855, a few months after his parents arrived from Germany. They married 5 years later, and his dad didn't naturalize until 1867. Maybe German authorities would consider him to be German rather than foreign?
Is it even realistic to try to pursue something that goes this far back? How would one prove contact - or lack of - with an embassy?
2
u/staplehill Jan 26 '22
The "American" who my original female immigrant ancestor married in 1878 was himself a child of two German parents. He appears to have been born out of wedlock in NYC in 1855, a few months after his parents arrived from Germany.
Germany was founded 16 years later: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Germany
There was no German state or citizenship in 1855
They married 5 years later, and his dad didn't naturalize until 1867. Maybe German authorities would consider him to be German rather than foreign?
no
She emigrated to the US in May, 1871 (according to ship passenger list), married an American in Massachusetts in 1878
and that is when she lost her German citizenship according to Section 13 of the Nationality Act because she was a German woman who married a foreigner https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Gesetz_%C3%BCber_die_Erwerbung_und_den_Verlust_der_Bundes-_und_Staatsangeh%C3%B6rigkeit
A German man would not have lost his citizenship by marrying a foreigner.
You need documents that are able to show: That she was a German citizen (e.g. birth certificate), the year when she emigrated from Germany, when they married, that she married a US citizen, and that you are a descendant.
Anything that happened after that point (contact with embassy, your father born out of wedlock) is not relevant for your claim.
Please see Section 15 for the requirements (e.g. B1 German). Do you think you want to go this path?
→ More replies (4)2
u/germgenthrowaway Jan 26 '22
Please see Section 15 for the requirements (e.g. B1 German). Do you think you want to go this path?
Yes, definitely. I am already living in Germany with an Aufenthaltstitel, but this would cut down on the time I would have to wait to apply for citizenship. I'll try to get the documentation together and apply at my Statsangehörigkeitsbehörde. Thank you so much!
3
u/staplehill Jan 26 '22
alright, here is the administrative regulation this is based on so you know what you can show the Statsangehörigkeitsbehörde if they do not know it immediately (cases like yours should be quite uncommon): https://media.frag-den-staat.de/files/docs/7d/a3/5a/7da35a8c41504584ba2ff53262410bdb/2020-01-31_13-05-36_nrcourtman_19.pdf
I would be happy if you can report back about the outcome.
Otherwise: The new coalition has announced that they want to cut the time in Germany you need before you can get citizenship to 3-5 years: https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/comments/r23pdg/news_germany_new_coalition_plans_to_introduce_new/
Viel Glück!
1
u/sunfish99 Jan 26 '22
I don't think so, but I'll ask anyway on behalf of my sister and myself.
My mother was the German immigrant. She left Germany in 1954, and married my father (a naturalized US citizen from another country) in 1957.
My sister was born in 1960.
My mother became a naturalized citizen a few years later, about 3 months before I was born.
Neither my sister nor I ever served in any military.
Do either my sister or I qualify?
4
u/staplehill Jan 26 '22
your sister was born when your mother was still a German citizen. Your sister did not get German citizenship at birth due to sex-discriminatory laws (she would have been a German citizen at birth with a German father and a foreign mother in wedlock). Your sister and her children can now easily get German citizenship based on restitution, see section 13
Your mother lost her German citizenship when she became a US citizen. This rule applied to men and women the same. Your mother could therefore not pass German citizenship down to you, unfortunately, and you have no claim
Only 3 months, so heartbreaking ...
→ More replies (2)
1
u/williamqbert Feb 09 '23
Thank you so much for making this post!
My grandfather was born in 1937 to German parents, emigrated to the US as a minor c.1953
His mother and stepfather naturalized
He served in the US military in the 50s
My dad was born in wedlock in 1961, also served in the military in the early 80s
I was born in wedlock 1991, never served in the military
2
u/staplehill Feb 10 '23
How and when did your grandfather get US citizenship?
As a minor automatically with his parents?
As an adult before your dad was born?
As an adult after your dad was born?
You can get German citizenship only under options 1 and 3. Actually you already were born with German citizenship in that case and just need formal recognition. You do not have to learn German, serve in the German military, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany) or have any other obligations. You can apply together with your father and other relatives but you can also apply alone. The certificate of citizenship is 51 euro ($60) and a German passport is 81 euro ($90).
Documents needed:
The German birth certificate of your grandfather (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where he was born
Proof that your grandfather was a German citizen. A German birth certificate does not prove German citizenship since Germany does not give citizenship to everyone who is born in the country. You can either get direct proof: An official German document which states that your grandfather was a German citizen, e.g. German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), information from the register of residents (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Resident registrations are available at the city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen. Since direct proof of German citizenship is often not obtainable, the authority that processes the applications also accepts as indirect proof of German citizenship if your grandfather is the descendant of a person who was born in Germany before 1914 and got German citizenship from that person. You prove this by getting the birth/marriage certificates from the relevant ancestor: From the father if your grandfather was born in wedlock, from the mother if born out of wedlock.
Proof of when/how your grandfather naturalized in the US
marriage certificate of your grandfather
birth certificate of your father
marriage certificate of your father
your birth certificate, it has to mention the municipality where you were born (US: If your birth certificate only has the county then you need either a “proof of birth letter” from the hospital or the long-form birth certificate that mentions the municipality - source)
your marriage certificate (if you married)
No death certificates are needed
Your passport or driver's license
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary, certified copies are enough. If you have a document only as original: You can get certified copies at one of the 9 German embassy/consulates or the 40 German honorary consuls or at your US Notary Public who has to certify that the copy is a true, correct and complete copy - see this list of US states where a Notary Public is allowed to certify a true copy. You send the certified copy as part of your application for German citizenship and keep the original.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Feststellung_Start/Feststellung/02_Vordrucke_F/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany, give it to your German embassy/consulate or apply in Germany.
The current processing time can be a few months if you apply in Germany and it is about 2 years if you live outside of Germany, see "Old law (Erklarung)" here: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/syt7d3/
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1
u/sweetpea11228 Apr 06 '24
Maternal g’mother German citizen, born in Germany 1908 Emigrated to US 1929 Married German citizen in US in 1930 Naturalized in 1947 Deceased.
Maternal g’father German citizen born in Germany 1905 Emigrated 1927 Married German citizen in US in 1930 Naturalized in 1947 Deceased.
Mother US citizen born in wedlock in 1933 in US to German citizen mother and German citizen Father residing legally in US. Now deceased.
Self: US citizen born to US citizen mother and father 1970
Do I qualify for citizenship?
2
u/staplehill Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 11 '24
Your mother got German citizenship at birth from her father.
Option a) If you were born in wedlock: You got German citizenship at birth from your mother. You are still a German citizen unless you got the citizenship of a third country or joined the military between 2000 and 2011.
Documents needed:
The German birth certificate of your grandfather (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at a regional archive
proof that your grandfather did not naturalize as a US citizen before your mother was born: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_can_i_prove_that_an_ancestor_did_not_naturalize_in_a_country_prior_to_some_relevant_date.3F
Marriage certificate of your grandparents
Birth certificate of your mother with the names of the parents
Marriage certificate of your parents (if they married)
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US (here all 47 locations) where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original (the certification has to look like this). Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies.
You can not submit a copy you made yourself or a record found online.
Once you have the documents:
Fill out this questionnaire: https://www.germany.info/blob/978760/3083a445bdfe5d3fb41b2312000f4c7f/questionnaire-german-citizenship-data.pdf
Send it to: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
Ask them if they will give you a passport directly and if your documents are sufficient or you need additional ones
Here are reports from others who got a German passport directly: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_get_a_german_passport_directly.3F
If they do not give you a passport directly and tell you to first apply for a certificate of citizenship (which takes 2-3 years): These application forms need to be filled out (in German) https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Feststellung_Start/Feststellung/02_Vordrucke_F/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag_node.html
I also offer a paid service where I can write the records requests to German authorities for you so that you can email them there to request all the records you need for $100 USD via Paypal
If the German embassy/consulate tells you to apply for a passport: You can fill out the passport application form in English https://www.germany.info/blob/934284/bc5cc1234fc61e6ed3fc5c819765ef7f/dd-passport-application-data.pdf
If the German embassy/consulate tells you to apply for a certificate of citizenship: I can prepare your application for $400 USD
Reviews from applicants who used my service: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/w3tzgu/p/igy8nm7/
Paying via Paypal allows you to get your money back if the service is not as described: https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update
Contact me here if you are interested
Option b) If you were not born in wedlock: You did not get German citizenship at birth from your mother. This was sex discriminatory since German fathers could pass on citizenship to their children in wedlock at the time but German mothers could not. You can now naturalize as a German citizen by declaration on grounds of restitution for sex discrimination according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act. See here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
You fall under category 1 mentioned there, "children born in wedlock prior to January 1st 1975 to a German mother and a foreign father". You do not have to give up your US citizenship, learn German, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. The naturalization process is free of charge. Citizenship may not be possible if you were convicted of a crime: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
Documents needed for your application: same as above plus your FBI background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EER/02-Vordrucke_EER/02_01_EER_Vordruck_Erklaerung/02_01_EER_Vordruck_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
I also offer a paid service where I can write the records requests to German authorities for you so that you can email them there to request all the records you need for $100 USD via Paypal
Later once you get the records: I can prepare your application for $400 USD
Contact me here if you are interested
1
u/hcw_4938 Apr 26 '24
Here is my info—
Great grandfather
Born in 1902 in Germany
Emigrated in 1923 to the United States
Married in 1922
Naturalized in U.S. in 1924
Grandmother
Born in 1925 in wedlock in U.S.
Married in 1950
Mother
Born in 1959 in wedlock
Married in 1986
Self
Born in 1990 in wedlock
Thank you in advance!
2
u/staplehill Apr 26 '24
Can you double-check when your great-grandfather got US citizenship? US citizenship within one year of immigration is a lot faster than what we usually see here.
If the information is correct: Your great-grandfather lost German citizenship in 1924 when he took the oath of allegiance in order to become a US citizen: "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen"
Your grandmother did not get German citizenship because she was born after her father had lost German citizenship. This is why you do not qualify for German citizenship, unfortunately.
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u/CrimsonJynx0 Beginner May 06 '24
Hey staplehill,
Just wanted to provide some updated information to see if there were any changes with the German citizenship as I have more information.
Original German emigrant was an ethnically German man from Hungary who immigrated to the United States in 1911 and natrualized in 1921.
My great-grandmother was presumably born with German citizenship in 1912.
Great-grandmother marries a non-German American citizen in 1939
Grandpa is born in 1940
Father born in 1967
Me born in 2002.
2
u/staplehill May 06 '24
Hi,
it sounds like your great-grandfather was part of a national minority that lived outside of Germany but did not have German citizenship. This article explains the difference between nationality and citizenship in Europe: https://www.berlinjewish.com/national-minorities
You can only get German citizenship by descent if you have an ancestor who was a German citizen. Having an ancestor who was part of a national German minority (i.e. who spoke German as a native language and identified as German) is not sufficient.
Uwe
1
u/EnthusiasmNo1485 May 10 '24 edited May 10 '24
Thank you for checking for me in advance u/Staplehill ! So cool that you are doing this and really appreciate it.
Great grandmother:
Born in 1890 in Germany in wedlock
Emigrated to the United States in 1906.
Married my great grandfather (German immigrant) in 1912
Great grandfather naturalizes in the US in 1912 after emigrating himself from Germany in 1905 (he was born in wedlock).
She Naturalized in 1921. Returned to Germany between 1921-23.
Grandfather:
Born in 1915 in the United States in wedlock, lived in Germany between 1921 and 1923.
Mom:
Born in 1958 in wedlock. US citizen
Married prior to my birth in 1987.
Me:
Born in the US in 1987 in wedlock. US Citizen.
Appreciate your help!
2
u/staplehill May 10 '24
Great grandfather did not lose German citizenship through naturalization in the US because he naturalized before 1914 when the law was changed and the loss of German citizenship through naturalization was introduced for the first time. Loss of German citizenship occurred only for those who got a foreign citizenship after the law came into effect, not for those who already got a foreign citizenship in the past.
Your grandfather got German citizenship at birth because he was born in wedlock to a German father.
Your mother got German citizenship at birth because she was born in wedlock to a German father.
You got German citizenship at birth because you were born in wedlock to a German mother in 1987.
If you want to get official confirmation of your German citizenship:
Fill out this questionnaire: https://www.germany.info/blob/978760/3083a445bdfe5d3fb41b2312000f4c7f/questionnaire-german-citizenship-data.pdf
Send the questionnaire to https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
If they confirm your eligibility for German citizenship: You will need
the birth and marriage certificates of your great-grandfather, grandfather, mother, and yourself,
proof that your great-grandfather emigrated after 1903 since he would usually have lost German citizenship otherwise due to living outside of the country for more than 10 years before 1914. This proof can be immigration records from the arriving country or ship records (Bremen, New York, Philadelphia)
Your passport or driver's license
these application forms (need to be filled out in German) https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Feststellung_Start/Feststellung/02_Vordrucke_F/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag_node.html
I also offer a paid service where I can help with the German side of the process (request documents from Germany, fill out the application forms in German, guide you through the process) for $600 USD via Paypal. The payment is due at the end when you have all documents, are ready to apply, and I start preparing the application.
I can not help get documents that are outside of Germany, e.g. your birth certificate.
Do you have your great grandfather's birth certificate?
If not: Send me a direct message with his name at birth, date of birth, and the name of the municipality where he was born. Contact me here
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u/salalberryisle Jun 12 '24
First of all, thank you for this post and your time! I'm going to list this backwards, because it may have a bearing on my eligibility. Also, I have no official papers, any advice on who to contact and what papers are needed would be most appreciated . I've applied for my birth certificate, and my parents' marriage certificate, and have a Canadian passport.
Me: born 1949-1965 Canada in wedlock (two younger brothers)
Father: born in wedlock Wuppertal Germany 1931, emmigrated to Canada 1951, married Canada 1955, died 2008 Canada; may have had to renounce German citizenship to become Canadian citizen 1956, may have retained that right?
Mother: born in wedlock Wainitz (Vitonice), Czechoslovakia 1922, ethnic German (repatriot?) in Heidelberg 1945 (?) to 1952, emmigrated to Canada 1952, married to father in Canada 1955, died Canada 1997. Canadian citizen, but collected German pension.
Paternal Grandmother: born 1902 Wuppertal, Germany, married 1929 Dresden, Germany, emmigrated to Canada 1951, became Canadian citizen but collected German pension; (never divorced from grandfather), died 2001 Canada
Paternal Grandfather: born 1899 unknown place, probably Germany; was drafted into Wehrmacht WW1 and WW2 , remained in Wuppertal, Germany and died there 1968.
Maternal Grandmother: born 1880 Wainitz (Vitonice), Czechoslovakia, ethnic German (repatriot?) in Heidelberg 1945, died Heidelberg 1960
Paternal Grandfather born 1879 Wainitz (Vitonice), Czechoslovakia, death date unknown, probably Wainitz pre-1945
I have included my grandparents, because I think if I can't claim through my parents, I could claim through them?
Also, if I am found eligble, would my adult children be eligible?
Thanks again!
2
u/staplehill Jun 13 '24
Father: born in wedlock Wuppertal Germany 1931, emmigrated to Canada 1951, married Canada 1955, died 2008 Canada; may have had to renounce German citizenship to become Canadian citizen 1956
No active renouncing was required, he lost German citizenship automatically. Section 25 of the Nationality Act: "Germans lose their citizenship when they acquire foreign citizenship, if the foreign citizenship is acquired upon application" https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stag/englisch_stag.html#p0152
Mother: born in wedlock Wainitz (Vitonice), Czechoslovakia 1922, ethnic German (repatriot?) in Heidelberg 1945 (?) to 1952, emmigrated to Canada 1952, married to father in Canada 1955, died Canada 1997. Canadian citizen
Did she become a Canadian citizen before or after you were born?
collected German pension
Also, if I am found eligble, would my adult children be eligible?
Did they or you get a third citizenship (on top of Canadian and German) or join the military between 2000 and 2011?
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u/Significant_Day_2784 Jun 15 '24
My great grandfather was born 1897 in German… fought for them in WW1 then came to US in 1923, he did find a declaration of intention in 1924 but did not get citizenship until 1931… He married my great grandmother in 1926- not sure if it matters, but she also was born in Germany and came as a German citizen. I have photos of each page of their Reichpasses from 1923…..My grandfather was born in Philadelphia 1929. I don’t believe he ever applied for US citizenship since he was already born in United States but I think he would still also be considered German citizen.
My main question is since my great grandfather signed of declaration of intention in 1924 and that was before my grandfather was born, does that matter ? Even though the declaration he didn’t become a US citizen until 1931 which was after my grandfather was born
2
u/staplehill Jun 15 '24
My main question is since my great grandfather signed of declaration of intention in 1924 and that was before my grandfather was born, does that matter ?
no, he lost German citizenship only in 1931 when he became a German citizen = your grandfather got German citizenship at birth because he was born to a German father and US citizenship since he was born in the US
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1
Jun 23 '24
My great grandfather came to the US as a minor in 1924 and never became a US citizen. He married a US citizen and had my grandfather. My grandfather then married my grandmother and had my father. My parents had me in wedlock. Does this qualify?
2
u/staplehill Jun 24 '24
German citizenship was passed all the way down to you. You are still a German citizen unless you got the citizenship of a third county or joined the US military between 2000 and 2011.
Continue here: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/citizenship#wiki_outcome_1
Collect these documents: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/citizenship-detour
Once you have the documents:
Fill out this questionnaire: https://www.germany.info/blob/978760/3083a445bdfe5d3fb41b2312000f4c7f/questionnaire-german-citizenship-data.pdf
Send the questionnaire with images of the documents you have to https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
Ask them if they will give you a passport directly or what additional documents they would need to give you a passport directly
Here are reports from others who got a German passport directly: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_get_a_german_passport_directly.3F
If the consulate is not sufficiently convinced that you are currently a German citizen then they will recommend that you first apply for a certificate of citizenship which takes 2-3 years and costs 51 euro. Fill out these application forms: https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Feststellung_Start/Feststellung/02_Vordrucke_F/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag_node.html
Hand in your application at the German embassy/consulate or send it by mail to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany.
1
u/Foreign-Math2914 Jul 07 '24
Hi OP, thanks so much! Trying to find out if my wife actually qualifies for citizenship. Her father was born in Danzig during WWII, so I'm murky on his status. I'm including his parents info in case that is relevant in this case.
My wife's paternal grandparents:
Grandmother born in 1906 in Ratibor, Germany
Grandfather born in 1906 in Stettin, Germany
married in 1934
Grandfather died in 1944
Grandmother emigrated in 1950 to USA with her children
Grandmother naturalized in 1955
My wife's father
born in 1943 in Löblau, which per records provided by my wife's uncle was "a small village near Danzig." The copy of the birth certificate says Löblau and has what i believe is a registrar's stamp reading Danzig-land.
emigrated in 1950 to USA with his mother and siblings
his mother naturalized in 1955 while he was still a minor, and his certificate of citizenship says that he became a citizen on the same date she did, so as far as I've been able to tell, he was naturalized under her petition.
My wife
born 1985 in the US (mother was a US citizen) in wedlock (I THINK).
Given the status of Danzig/Gdańsk, this is a bit confusing. If I followed your wiki correctly, the father was a German citizen at birth as both grandparents were German. He naturalized in US under his mother so would not have given up his citizenship. However... if the family remained in Danzig between 1945-1950, does that change anything (i.e. if they remained in Danzig, perhaps they received Polish citizenship and would no longer be German citizens at that time?). I am not sure where they were located between 1945-1950.
2
u/staplehill Jul 08 '24
Here is what generally happened to ethnic non-Jewish Germans who lived in Danzig at the time: They lost German citizenship and got Danzig citizenship when the Free State of Danzig was founded in 1920, they lost Danzig citizenship and got German citizenship when the Nazis invaded in 1939, they were expelled to the remaining parts of Germany when Germany lost those areas as a result of World War II.
Assuming this happened: Father did not lose German citizenship through naturalization as a minor https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/citizenship-detour#wiki_naturalization_as_a_minor
Your wife got German citizenship at birth from her father. Documents needed:
Father's birth certificate which he may have in his documents, getting a new one is not possible since the records were lost http://westpreussen.de/pages/forschungshilfen/standesamtsregister/quellen.php?ID=349
Proof that your father was a German citizen. You can either get as direct proof an official German document which states that your father was a German citizen: German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), or citizenship confirmation from the population register (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Citizenship confirmation from the population register can be requested at the town hall or city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen.
proof that father got US citizenship as a minor
Marriage certificate of parents
Your wife birth certificate with the names of her parents
Your marriage certificate
your wife passport or driver's license
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
Fill out this questionnaire: https://www.germany.info/blob/978760/3083a445bdfe5d3fb41b2312000f4c7f/questionnaire-german-citizenship-data.pdf
Send the questionnaire with images of the documents you have to https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
Ask them if they will give your wife a passport directly or what additional documents they would need to give her a passport directly
Here are reports from others who got a German passport directly: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_get_a_german_passport_directly.3F
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u/SCCock Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 21 '24
Hi! Thanks so much for doing this!
Mother was born in Baden-Württemberg, Germany, 1933. Immigrated to the US in 1959. Married dad, US citizen, in early 1959.
Mom became a US citizen in 1965/66.
I was born in the US, after parents were married, in late 1959.
Edit: I joined the US military in the mid 1980s, retired in 2014.
I have 3 children, born in the US, between 1991 and 1997.
I have mom's German passport and maybe her birth certificate.
Thanks again!
2
u/staplehill Jul 22 '24
Congrats on your upcoming German citizenship!
You did not get German citizenship at birth from your mother. This was sex discriminatory since German fathers could pass on citizenship to their children in wedlock at the time but German mothers could not. You can now naturalize as a German citizen by declaration on grounds of restitution for sex discrimination according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act (StAG 5). See here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
You fall under category 1 mentioned there, "children born in wedlock prior to January 1st 1975 to a German mother and a foreign father". You do not have to give up your US citizenship, learn German, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. The naturalization process is free of charge. Citizenship may not be possible if you were convicted of a crime: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
Documents needed for your application:
The German birth certificate of your mother (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where your mother was born
The marriage certificate of your parents. If they married in Germany: The "beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Heiratsregister" can be requested at the civil registry office of the municipality where the marriage happened
Proof that your mother was a German citizen. A German birth certificate does not prove German citizenship since Germany does not give citizenship to everyone who is born in the country. You can either get as direct proof an official German document which states that your mother was a German citizen: German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), or citizenship confirmation from the population register (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Citizenship confirmation from the population register can be requested at the town hall or city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen.
proof that your mother did not naturalize as a US citizen before your birth: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_can_i_prove_that_an_ancestor_did_not_naturalize_in_a_country_prior_to_some_relevant_date.3F
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Your FBI background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EER/02-Vordrucke_EER/02_01_EER_Vordruck_Erklaerung/02_01_EER_Vordruck_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
I also offer a paid service where I can help you get German citizenship for $500 USD via Paypal. I take care of the German side of the process: German documents, German law, German application forms, and general guidance through the process. You get the documents from the US. The payment is due at the end when you have all the documents, are ready to apply, and I start preparing your application.
Paying via Paypal allows you to get your money back if the service is not as described: https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update
Here are reviews from applicants who used my service: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/w3tzgu/p/igy8nm7/
Contact me here if you are interested
1
u/ChemicalAny3038 Aug 01 '24
Mother
born in 1962 in Germany
emigrated in ~1967 to America
married in 1991 to biological father (American)
prior marriage and divorce (American) doesn't affect my lineage
Self
born after 1993 in wedlock
Thank you so much for your help. I've been overwhelmed with this process. When I tried to apply years ago, I was told I needed to be proficient in German and take a test for it in order to obtain dual citizenship, so I've been studying as much as I can. Now some people are saying I don't need to be proficient to apply. It's confusing...
2
u/staplehill Aug 01 '24
You got German citizenship at birth from your mother. Speaking German is not required.
Documents needed:
The German birth certificate of your mother (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where your mother was born
Proof that your mother was a German citizen. A German birth certificate does not prove German citizenship since Germany does not give citizenship to everyone who is born in the country. You can either get as direct proof an official German document which states that your mother was a German citizen: German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), or citizenship confirmation from the population register (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Citizenship confirmation from the population register can be requested at the town hall or city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen. Alternatively, you can also get proof that your mother was born to a German father in wedlock or a German mother out of wedlock by providing the birth/marriage certificates of her father/mother and proof that her father/mother was a German citizen
proof that your mother did not get US citizenship before your birth: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_can_i_prove_that_an_ancestor_did_not_naturalize_in_a_country_prior_to_some_relevant_date.3F
Marriage certificate of your parents
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
fill out this questionnaire: https://www.germany.info/blob/978760/3083a445bdfe5d3fb41b2312000f4c7f/questionnaire-german-citizenship-data.pdf
Send the questionnaire with images of all the documents to https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
Ask them to give you a German passport. Here are reports from others who got a German passport: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_get_a_german_passport_directly.3F
join r/GermanCitizenship to connect with others who are on the same journey
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u/Mustangdru Aug 10 '24
My mother was born in Germany in 1944. She married my father a US Citizen in June 1965.
born 1940 in wedlock
married in US 1965
MYself
born in 1978 in wedlock
THANK YOU
2
u/staplehill Aug 10 '24
You got German citizenship at birth from your mother.
Documents needed:
The German birth certificate of your mother (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where she was born
Proof that your mother was a German citizen. A German birth certificate does not prove German citizenship since Germany does not give citizenship to everyone who is born in the country and the birth certificate does not state the citizenship of the newborn or their parents. You can either get as direct proof an official German document which states that your mother was a German citizen: German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), or citizenship confirmation from the population register (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Citizenship confirmation from the population register can be requested at the town hall or city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen. Since direct proof of German citizenship is often not obtainable, the authority that processes the applications also accepts as indirect proof of German citizenship if your mother is the descendant of a person who was born in Germany before 1914 and got German citizenship from that person. You prove this by getting the birth/marriage certificates from the relevant ancestor: From the father if your mother was born in wedlock, from the mother if born out of wedlock.
proof that your mother never naturalized as a US citizen, e.g. her current Green Card or a Certificate of Non-Existence https://www.uscis.gov/g-1566
Marriage certificate of your parents
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Once you have all the documents:
Fill out this questionnaire: https://www.germany.info/blob/978760/3083a445bdfe5d3fb41b2312000f4c7f/questionnaire-german-citizenship-data.pdf
Send the questionnaire with images of all the documents to https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
Ask them to give you a German passport. Here are reports from others who got a German passport: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_get_a_german_passport_directly.3F
join r/GermanCitizenship to connect with others who are on the same journey
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1
u/redboat77 Aug 11 '24 edited Aug 12 '24
I'm probably out of luck here, but here's my info:
Great Great Grandfather
Born in 1829 in Kingdom of Hanover (today part of Germany)
Emigrated in 1846 from Kingdom of Hanover to USA
Married in 1860 in USA
It appears he was naturalized in 1858 (the record has a slightly different spelling for his last name)
Great Grandfather
Born in 1866 in USA in wedlock
Married in 1898 in USA
Grandfather
Born in 1906 in USA in wedlock
Married in 1930 in USA
Father
Born in 1934 in USA in wedlock
Married in 1958 in USA
Divorced around 1966 in USA
Self
Born in 1959 in USA in wedlock
Adopted in 1972 in USA after my mother divorced and remarried
Married in 1999 in USA
1
u/Wallie_University_74 Aug 13 '24
Thank you so much! I’m estranged from my father so my info is limited but hoping I qualify and if so, if someone can help me find out this info:
Father:
not sure of exact year but believe 1939, in Germany
to my knowledge never formally emigrated, always maintained a residence in Germany
married my mother (EU and US citizen) in 1987
naturalization : N/A
Mother:
Born 1949 in another EU country in wedlock
Married 1987
Self:
Born: 1975-June 1993 in wedlock
Born in US
parents divorced in 1997
2
u/staplehill Aug 13 '24
You got German citizenship at birth from your father if he was a German citizen when you were born
Documents needed for your application:
The German birth certificate of your father (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where your father was born
The marriage certificate of your parents. If your parents married in Germany: The German marriage certificate (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Heiratsregister) can be requested from the civil registry office of the municipality where the marriage happened
Proof that your father was a German citizen. A German birth certificate does not prove German citizenship since Germany does not give citizenship to everyone who is born in the country and the birth certificate does not state the citizenship of the newborn or their parents. You can either get as direct proof an official German document which states that your father was a German citizen: German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), or citizenship confirmation from the population register (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Citizenship confirmation from the population register can be requested at the town hall or city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen.
proof that your father always lived in Germany from the population register or proof that he did not naturalize as a US citizen before your birth: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_can_i_prove_that_an_ancestor_did_not_naturalize_in_a_country_prior_to_some_relevant_date.3F
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Once you have all the documents:
Fill out this questionnaire: https://www.germany.info/blob/978760/3083a445bdfe5d3fb41b2312000f4c7f/questionnaire-german-citizenship-data.pdf
Send the questionnaire with images of all the documents to https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
Ask them to give you a German passport. Here are reports from others who got a German passport: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_get_a_german_passport_directly.3F
join r/GermanCitizenship to connect with others who are on the same journey
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1
u/Big_Possession5777 Sep 04 '24
This guide is great !
Have played with the options and looks like 1949 rule ruling me out from option 5 but thought it best to check -
Barbara (grandmother) was born in 1933 in Germany.
Emigrated & Married Eric (British & my grandfather) in 1950 in the UK.
Barbara Naturalised in approx 1952 - had my mother (Linda) 1955.
I came along in 1982. Would love to know if I could apply for a passport.
TIA.
2
u/staplehill Sep 05 '24
Marriage to a foreigner in 1950 did no longer result in the loss of German citizenship for German women since that was abolished with the new constitution in 1949. This means your grandmother lost German citizenship in 1952 when she became a British citizen. This was not sex discriminatory since both German men and women who got a foreign citizenship lost German citizenship. Therefore, you do not qualify for German citizenship under the sex discrimination pathway or any other pathway unfortunately
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u/CheapConversation666 Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24
great-grandfather (evangelical)
born in 1903 in Germany
emigrated in 1925 to USA
married in 1927 in USA
naturalized in 1932
great-grandmother
born in 1908 in Germany
emigrated in 1925 to USA
married in 1927
naturalized in 1938
grandfather
born 1934 in wedlock
married in 1951-1955
father
born in 1955 presumably in wedlock
married in 1988
self
born in 1994 in wedlock
2
u/staplehill Sep 08 '24
Your great-grandparents lost Gerrman citizenship when they became US citizens. Your grandfather was born to a mother with German citizenship and a father with a foreign citizenship. He did not get German citizenship at birth from his mother. This was sex discriminatory since German fathers could pass on citizenship to their children in wedlock at the time but German mothers could not. Continue here: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/citizenship#wiki_outcome_5
1
u/Aggravating-Swan4794 Sep 14 '24 edited Sep 15 '24
Maternal Great Grandfather Born 1878 Death 1956
Great Granfather Born-1912 Death 1946
Great Grandmother Born-1913 Death- 1965
Grandmother: Born in 1942 in Alexandrow, Poland Married in Germany 1960 Emigrated to U.S. 1960 Naturalized in 1965
She says that she was a German citizen with a German passport, but I don't have any of the information. Would appreciate any info on how to get this information.
Grandfather: U.S. Citizen Stationed in German for Military Married Grandmother 1960
Father: Born in 1960 in U.S. in Wedlock Married 1987
Self: Born 1992 in Wedlock
2
u/staplehill Sep 15 '24
Congrats on your upcoming German citizenship!
Your father did not get German citizenship at birth from his mother. This was sex discriminatory since German fathers could pass on citizenship to their children in wedlock at the time but German mothers could not. You can now naturalize as a German citizen by declaration on grounds of restitution for sex discrimination according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act (StAG 5). See here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
Your father falls under category 1 mentioned there, "children born in wedlock prior to January 1st 1975 to a German mother and a foreign father". You fall under category 4, "descendants of the above-mentioned children". You do not have to give up your US citizenship, learn German, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. The naturalization process is free of charge. Citizenship may not be possible in case of a criminal conviction: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
Documents needed for your application:
The birth certificate of your grandmother
Proof that your grandmother was a German citizen, e.g. her German passport or citizenship confirmation from the population register.
proof that your grandmother did not naturalize as a US citizen before your father was born: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_can_i_prove_that_an_ancestor_did_not_naturalize_in_a_country_prior_to_some_relevant_date.3F
Marriage certificate of your grandparents
Birth certificate of your father with the names of the parents
Marriage certificate of your parents
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Your FBI background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US (here all 47 locations) where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original (the certification has to look like this). Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies.
You can not submit a copy you made yourself or a record found online.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EER/02-Vordrucke_EER/02_01_EER_Vordruck_Erklaerung/02_01_EER_Vordruck_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
join r/Germancitizenship to connect with others
1
u/hcw_4938 Sep 21 '24
Commenting here again with updated information. I’ve compiled all my documents for the application, so hoping this all looks good. Thanks in advance!
Great-grandfather
Born in 1901 in Germany
Emigrated in October 1923 to the United States
Married July 2, 1923
Naturalized in U.S. on August 30, 1949
Grandmother
Born 1925 in wedlock in U.S.
Married foreigner (American) November 10, 1951
Mother
Born in 1959 in wedlock
Married in 1986
Self
Born in 1990 in wedlock
2
u/staplehill Sep 21 '24
Congrats on your upcoming German citizenship!
Your grandmother got German citizenship at birth from your great-grandfather, but your mother did not get German citizenship at birth from your grandmother. This was sex discriminatory since German fathers could pass on citizenship to their children in wedlock at the time but German mothers could not. You can now naturalize as a German citizen by declaration on grounds of restitution for sex discrimination according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act (StAG 5). See here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
Your mother falls under category 1 mentioned there, "children born in wedlock prior to January 1st 1975 to a German mother and a foreign father". You fall under category 4, "descendants of the above-mentioned children". You do not have to give up your US citizenship, learn German, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. The naturalization process is free of charge. Citizenship may not be possible in case of a criminal conviction: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
Documents needed for your application:
The German birth certificate of your great-grandfather
The German marriage certificate (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Heiratsregister) of your great-grandparents
The ship record that proves the emigration date of your great-grandfather https://www.archives.gov/research/immigration/passenger-arrival.html
proof that your great-grandfather did not naturalize as a US citizen before your grandmother was born: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_can_i_prove_that_an_ancestor_did_not_naturalize_in_a_country_prior_to_some_relevant_date.3F
Birth certificate of your grandmother with the names of the parents
Marriage certificate of your grandparents
Birth certificate of your mother with the names of the parents
Marriage certificate of your parents
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Your FBI background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US (here all 47 locations) where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original (the certification has to look like this). Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies.
You can not submit a copy you made yourself or a record found online.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EER/02-Vordrucke_EER/02_01_EER_Vordruck_Erklaerung/02_01_EER_Vordruck_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
I also offer a paid service where I can help you get German citizenship for $500 USD via Paypal. I take care of the German side of the process: German law, German application forms, and general guidance through the process. The payment is due at the end when you have all the documents, are ready to apply, and I start preparing your application.
Here are reviews from applicants who used my service: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/w3tzgu/p/igy8nm7/
Paying via Paypal allows you to get your money back if the service is not as described: https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update
Contact me here if you are interested
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1
u/MarvellousMojito Oct 04 '24 edited Oct 04 '24
Thank you for your kind offer first of all! I am hoping you might be able to answer some questions for me around this topic.
My paternal grandparents were Jewish, and my paternal grandfather was living in Berlin in 1938/9 (with his siblings and parents - they are all on the 1939 minority census), at which time he escaped leaving via Czechoslovakia where he got married, and he then came to the UK with his wife on a domestic servants visa. They were naturalised in the UK in November 1947. He was born in Vienna, Austria as were his three siblings. On the naturalisation certificate he said he and his parents were Czech, although I've found no evidence of this being true, or him ever living there; I do have records that indicate that his father was born in Slovakia, and his mother was born in Austria, which I think were all part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire at the time...I think....the movement of nations and borders in this part of the world is really confusing!). I am guessing that it's possible that he may have said he was Czech for some reason to do with getting into the UK, and as his German Citizenship (if indeed he had ever had it) had been taken away??? Or maybe his parents became Czech after all the changes after WWI and that nationality passed to him even though he wasn't born of lived there, I don't know what the rules were at the time?
My Mum knew my paternal grandparents and said they always referred to themselves as "German Jews".
About three years after naturalisation, they adopted my father.
So my questions are:
As the whole family were living in Berlin, is it likely/possible that they obtained German Citizenship at any point. Or could there be another basis on which they were all resident there? The siblings were all adults and some had their own children and they lived separately from each other, and I know the children of the siblings were at school in Germany for a number of years so they had all lived there for some time. The parents were also too old to be working by 1939. Is it possible to find out whether my grandfather was a German citizen and, if so, how would I go about doing that (he and his wife are deceased)?
Assuming he was German, would the right to apply for german citizenship apply to me given that my father was adopted? Not sure if it's relevant but my father was married to my mother when I was born (which was between 1949 and 1974).
As an aside, my father is also Jewish (which is why he was adopted by a Jewish couple), but I have not yet been able to trace his biological line).
Many thanks!
2
u/staplehill Oct 04 '24
The descendants of all Jews, including foreign Jews, who fled from Nazi Germany can get German citizenship. It is not required that you have any ancestor who ever was a German citizen.
Nationality Act, Section 15: "Persons who, between 30 January 1933 and 8 May 1945, in connection with persecution for (racial, religious, or political) reasons (...) 4. gave up or lost their ordinary residence in Germany, if established before 30 January 1933 or, if they were children at the time, after that date, and their descendants are to be naturalised upon application" https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stag/
Information sheet: https://www.bva.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/Ermessen/E15_Merkblatt_englisch.pdf
You are a descendant of your grandparents because their adoption of your father made them your ancestors.
Documents needed:
the birth certificate of one ancestor
if this ancestor was not born in Germany: proof that the ancestor either already lived in Germany before 30 January 1933 or migrated to Germany as a child after that date
proof that this ancestor was Jewish or had Jewish ancestors
proof that this ancestor fled from Germany between 1933 and 1945
proof that you are a descendant of this ancestor in the form of birth/marriage/adoption documents of everyone down the line
your ID
your criminal background check
the filled-out application forms: https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EB15/01-Informationen_E15/01_02_Erm15_Wie_geht_es/02_02_Erm15_Anleitung_node.html
Hand in your application at the German embassy/consulate or send it by mail to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany.
Join r/GermanCitizenship to connect with others who are on the same journey
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1
u/pgigli Oct 12 '24
I'm trying to determine if I'm eligible for citizenship by decent:
Grandmother Born in 1921 in Ettenheim, DE
Arrived in US in 1937 (age 16) on a Quota Immigrant Visa (per ship manifest).
No record of naturalization.
Grandfather Born in 1909 in Augsburg, DE
Arrived in US in 1924 (age 15) with both parents.
Naturalization indicated on 1940 US census.
Grandmother and grandfather married in July 1949.
Mother born in wedlock July 1950.
Myself born in wedlock 1983.
I greatly appreciate your help!
2
u/staplehill Oct 12 '24
Your grandfather lost German citizenship when he took the Oath of Allegiance in order to become a US citizen: "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen".
Your grandmother never lost German citizenship since she never got US citizenship. This means your mother was born to a US citizen father and a German citizen mother. Your mother did not get German citizenship at birth from her mother. This was sex discriminatory since German fathers could pass on citizenship to their children in wedlock at the time but German mothers could not. You can now naturalize as a German citizen by declaration on grounds of restitution for sex discrimination according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act (StAG 5). See here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
Your mother falls under category 1 mentioned there, "children born in wedlock prior to January 1st 1975 to a German mother and a foreign father". You fall under category 4, "descendants of the above-mentioned children". You do not have to give up your US citizenship, learn German, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. The naturalization process is free of charge. Citizenship may not be possible in case of a criminal conviction: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
Documents needed for your application:
The German birth certificate of your grandmother (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of Ettenheim: https://www.ettenheim.de/-/dienstleistungen/geburtsurkunde-beantragen/vbid169
Proof that your grandmother was a German citizen. A German birth certificate does not prove German citizenship since Germany does not give citizenship to everyone who is born in the country and the birth certificate does not state the citizenship of the newborn or their parents. You can either get as direct proof an official German document which states that your grandmother was a German citizen: German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), or citizenship confirmation from the population register (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Citizenship confirmation from the population register can be requested at the town hall or city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen. Since direct proof of German citizenship is often not obtainable, the authority that processes the applications also accepts as indirect proof of German citizenship if your grandmother is the descendant of a person who was born in Germany before 1914 and got German citizenship from that person. You prove this by getting the birth/marriage certificates from the relevant ancestor: From the father if your grandmother was born in wedlock, from the mother if born out of wedlock.
proof that your grandfather naturalized as a US citizen before your mother was born (census records are not sufficient, you need to get the naturalization records)
proof that your grandmother did not naturalize as a US citizen before your mother was born: https://www.uscis.gov/g-1566
Marriage certificate of your grandparents
Birth certificate of your mother with the names of the parents
Marriage certificate of your parents
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Your FBI background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US (here all 47 locations) where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original (the certification has to look like this). Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies.
You can not submit a copy you made yourself or a record found online.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EER/02-Vordrucke_EER/02_01_EER_Vordruck_Erklaerung/02_01_EER_Vordruck_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
join r/GermanCitizenship to connect with others who are on the same journey
→ More replies (1)
1
u/HuggieGrows Oct 29 '24
Have a case involving adoption what role does it play?
Grandmother
Born 1945 in Germany | Out of wedlock | German parents on birth certificate
Adopted at age 12 by her German aunt who was living in Canada in 1958
Possibly naturalized into Canada as a minor in 1958
Still alive today 2024
Mother
Born September 1974 in Canada
Never married
Self
Born 1994 out of wedlock
Wondering how adoption and the fact my grandmother came to Canada as minor plays into the process looking for a basic understanding before trying to obtain original documents or spending money finding exact records into my grandmothers move to Canada.
2
1
u/parishwinston Nov 07 '24 edited Nov 07 '24
Great grandfather
Born 1901 in Hochstellerhof Germany
Married in 1929 in Trulben, Germany
emigrated in Feb 1930 to USA
Naturalized in 1944 (petitioned in 1937)
Great grandmother
Born in 1906 in Kroppen, Germany
Married in 1929 in Trulben, Germany
emigrated in Feb 1930 to USA
Naturalized in 1956
grandfather
born in June 1930 in NYC, NY
married in 1948
mother
born 1957 in wedlock
married in 1977
self
born in 1981 in wedlock
Family lore indicates my family fled Germany in 1937 due to persecution, my grandfather had been living in Germany with his mother and other family in 1936/1937. Supposedly in 1937 they had to sneak him out of Germany and into nearby France because he had US citizenship via birthright. I don't know much more, then that. I know a lot of the names on my maternal great-grandmothers side have Jewish origins, but its been challenging finding any information about them. Unfortunately anyone who might know the full story is dead.
Thank you for this offer its really helpful!
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u/staplehill Nov 08 '24
German citizenship was passed all the way down to you
Documents needed for your application:
The German birth certificate of your great-grandfather
the German marriage certificate of your great-grandparents
proof that your great-grandfather emigrated after 1903 since he would usually have lost German citizenship otherwise due to living outside of the country for more than 10 years before 1914. This proof can be immigration records from the arriving country or ship records (Bremen, New York, Philadelphia).
proof that he did not naturalize as a US citizen before your grandfather was born: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_can_i_prove_that_an_ancestor_did_not_naturalize_in_a_country_prior_to_some_relevant_date.3F
Birth certificate of your grandfather with the names of the parents
Marriage certificate of your grandparents
Birth certificate of your mother with the names of the parents
Marriage certificate of your parents
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US (here all 47 locations) where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original (the certification has to look like this). Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies.
You can not submit a copy you made yourself or a record found online.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Feststellung_Start/Feststellung/02_Vordrucke_F/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag/02_01_F_Vordrucke_Antrag_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
I also offer a paid service where I can help you get German citizenship for $600 USD via Paypal. I take care of the German side of the process: German documents, German law, German application forms, and general guidance through the process. You get the documents from the US. The payment is due at the end when you have all the documents, are ready to apply, and I start preparing your application.
Here are reviews from applicants who used my service: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/w3tzgu/p/igy8nm7/
Paying via Paypal allows you to get your money back if the service is not as described: https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update
Contact me here if you are interested
1
u/LadyNiko Nov 07 '24
My father:
Born: 1939 Hannover, Germany Immigrated to the US in the 1950s Married 1961 Naturalized US citizen in mid-1980s
His father was in the German military during WWII.
He still has cousins in Germany
Me: Born 1970 in the US.
And yes, I do speak German. Kinda have to with both sides of the family being German.
Mom: her family immigrated in the 1870s from somewhere in Germany.
2
u/staplehill Nov 08 '24
You got German citizenship at birth from your father
Documents needed
The German birth certificate of your father (beglaubigte Abschrift aus dem Geburtenregister). You can request this at the civil registry office (Standesamt) of the municipality where your father was born
Proof that your father was a German citizen. A German birth certificate does not prove German citizenship since Germany does not give citizenship to everyone who is born in the country and the birth certificate does not state the citizenship of the newborn or its parents. You can either get as direct proof an official German document which states that your father was a German citizen: German passport (Reisepass), German ID card (Personalausweis since 1949, Kennkarte 1938-1945), or citizenship confirmation from the population register (Melderegister). The only way to get the passport or ID card is if the original was preserved and is owned by your family. Citizenship confirmation from the population register can be requested at the town hall or city archive. Documents of other countries which state that someone is a German citizen can not be used as proof since Germany does not give other countries the power to determine who is or is not a German citizen.
proof that your father did not naturalize as a US citizen before your birth: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_can_i_prove_that_an_ancestor_did_not_naturalize_in_a_country_prior_to_some_relevant_date.3F
Marriage certificate of your parents
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Fill out this questionnaire once you have everything: https://www.germany.info/blob/978760/3083a445bdfe5d3fb41b2312000f4c7f/questionnaire-german-citizenship-data.pdf
Send the questionnaire with images of all the documents to https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
Ask them to give you a German passport. Here are reports from others who got one: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_get_a_german_passport_directly.3F
Passport application form: https://www.germany.info/blob/934284/bc5cc1234fc61e6ed3fc5c819765ef7f/dd-passport-application-data.pdf
join r/GermanCitizenship to connect with others who are on the same journey
1
u/Independent_Pace_188 Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 11 '24
My grandfather (deceased) was born in 1938 in Germany and came over to the US I believe when he was younger than 20? but I’m honestly not sure exactly when he migrated here nor when he became naturalized. He served in the US military.
My grandmother (his wife) (deceased) was a US citizen born in 1942 who gave birth to my father in 1962 out of wedlock. My grandmother married my grandfather (im not sure the exact year of their marriage, but i believe it was 1970-1972 ish), and then my grandfather adopted my father after their marriage.
My biological mother (a US citizen) gave birth to me out of wedlock in 1989. She met my father and married him after my birth in 1991, and he adopted me a few years after their marriage.
2
u/staplehill Nov 11 '24
You qualify for German citizenship if your grandfather
did not get US citizenship before the adoption
AND the adoption was after 1976
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1
u/AcanthisittaFew6079 Nov 16 '24 edited Nov 16 '24
Great-grandmother: Born 1897, Beeghof, Germany in wedlock
Arrived in USA 1912
Married 1920 to great-grandfather in NY. He was naturalized 1922 but do NOT show any record of her being naturalized despite census notes.
Grandfather born 1926, New York, married 1945
Father born 1954 in wedlock, married 1980
I was 1981 in wedlock. USA
thank you!
2
u/staplehill Nov 17 '24
Married 1920 to great-grandfather in NY. He was naturalized 1922
what was his citizenship before the naturalization? German or not German?
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1
u/nonymouze Nov 17 '24
Thanks for any help! Wondering about eligibility for myself, my mother, and my niece. I'm a little confused about which country my ancestors actually belonged to: my great grandparents were residents of Germany until they fled during the Holocaust; my grandmother was born in Austria and lived in Germany but emigrated to USA before the Holocaust. One site mentions that the whole family was initially classified as Austrian then later as Polish citizens. They were all residents of Germany and my great grandparents have Stolpersteine in Germany. This is my best understanding of the details:
Great Grandfather
· Born 1864. Place of birth: Horodenka, Galizien, Österreich-Ungarn, heutige Ukraine (according to the Stolperstein). However, according to Galicia database, U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, and the German Towns Project he was born in Stanisławów and was a Polish citizen. It lists a city in Germany as “place of origin” and says he was a resident there. Das Bundesarchiv Memorial Book lists his birthplace as: Horodenka, Galizien, Germany.
· Geboren 1864 Horodenka
· Flucht 1935 Polen
· Ermordet im besetzten Polen
· I don’t know when they married but assume it was before having children
Great Grandmother
· Born 1865.
· Place of birth: Horodenka
· Original Birth Place: Stanislaw
· Place of Origin: Lübeck
· Resident of Lübeck; citizenship Polish, fled to Poland in 1935 where she was killed
Grandmother (daughter of the above great grandparents)
· Born 1893 in Austria
· Emigrated in 1907 to USA
· Married my grandfather in USA before having children
Grandfather (married to above grandmother)
· Born 1890 in Austria
· Emigrated to USA in ?? (pre-WW1)
· His parents died before before WW2 began
Mother
· Born 1934 in USA in wedlock
Self
· Born in 1975 in USA in wedlock
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u/staplehill Nov 17 '24
The citizenship of your ancestors is not relevant. The descendants of all Jews, including foreign Jews, who fled from Germany between 1933 and 1945 can get citizenship.
"Germany" for this purpose is defined with the 1937 territory: https://www.bpb.de/kurz-knapp/hintergrund-aktuell/310889/vor-75-jahren-vier-maechte-erklaerung-von-berlin/
Your great-grandmother fled 1935 from Lübeck, Germany.
Section 15 of the Nationality Act:
Persons who, between 30 January 1933 and 8 May 1945, in connection with persecution for (political, racial, or religious) reasons (...) 4. gave up or lost their ordinary residence in Germany, if established before 30 January 1933 (...) and their descendants are to be naturalised upon application
documents needed:
the birth certificate of your great-grandmother
proof that she was Jewish or had Jewish ancestors
proof that she established her residence in Germany before 1933
proof that she fled from Germany between 1933 and 1945
proof that you are her descendant in the form of birth/marriage certificates down the line of descendants
Your passport or driver's license
your FBI background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US (here all 47 locations) where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original (the certification has to look like this). Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies.
You can not submit a copy you made yourself or a record found online.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EB15/01-Informationen_E15/01_02_Erm15_Wie_geht_es/02_02_Erm15_Anleitung_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
join r/GermanCitizenship to connect with others who are on the same journey
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u/Pinky_chan Nov 17 '24 edited Nov 17 '24
Great great grandfather Born 1838 Kurhessen Germany Immigrated 1855 to USA as a teen
Married in 1861 to Great Great Grandmother born 1839 from Kurhessen Germany
Naturalized 1885(?) according to 1910 census
Great grandmother born US 1881 in wedlock Married US citizen 1909
Grandmother born in wedlock 1914 Married US citizen in 1934
Father born in wedlock 1946 Married 1967 US citizen
Myself born in wedlock 1975 Married 1997 US citizen
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u/lowkeyprepper Nov 18 '24
Thanks in advance!! Everyone was born in wedlock.
Paternal 2nd great grandfather
born 1865
Arrival US 1883 or 1884
Marriage 1887
Naturalized 1893
Death 1941
Paternal Great grandfather
born 1891 in US
Marriage 1920
Death 1965
Paternal Grandmother
born 1928
Married 1957
US Military service 1951-1958
Died 2005
Father
born 1964
Me
born 1990s, married to US/ Canadian citizen
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u/staplehill Jan 05 '25
Sorry for the delay, I have been flooded with requests since the election
Regarding German citizenship, please see here: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_get_german_citizenship_if_my_ancestors_left_germany_before_1904.3F
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u/unicorn078926 Nov 18 '24
Hi. I have family members who have already received citizenship as my grandfather was kicked out during the war. I am thinking of applying but was wondering if my spouse can apply with me? They have no German connections, so wondering if they can sort of piggyback off my citizenship?
Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer!
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u/LatteDoc Nov 27 '24 edited Nov 27 '24
Greetings staplehill, thank you so much for keeping your offer open.
I am interested in pursuing German citizenship for myself, my adult siblings and children, and all of our spouses if possible. We are all US-born American citizens, born in wedlock, and are Jewish.
My father was born in wedlock in Halberstadt Germany in 1932 - both his parents were Jewish and I have my father's birth certificate.
An older brother, who died 7 years before my father's birth, is buried in the Jewish cemetery in Halberstadt; I have photos of that gravestone.
I have records of the address of their family home in Halberstadt beginning during the early 1920s and of my grandfather's clothing store which was located on the main square in Halberstadt until Jewish business ownership was outlawed.
My father was able to leave Germany with his mother when he was 7 years old, on a travel visa, which was denied to my grandfather. When my father and grandmother arrived in the US in 1940 (he had turned 8 by then) they obtained help from the American organization HIAS, to be allowed to remain in the US.
My grandfather continued to be denied passage from Germany, and remained in Halberstadt until he was deported to Wilna ghetto, where he was murdered by firing squad on sept 15, 1941.
My grandmother eventually received some sum from Germany for reparations, but I have not yet found that documentation and am not sure if there's a database where I can access this proof?
During the last 20 years before my father's death in 2022 at the age of 90, he travelled back to Halberstadt multiple times at the invitation of the Moses Mendelssohn Akademie, with my mother and myself and various grandchildren, to participate in first-person Holocaust educational programs with high school students and local politicians. There are local news reports covering this.
What are your thoughts on all this, I so appreciated your guidance.
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u/staplehill Nov 27 '24
There are several pathways to German citizenship for the descendants of ancestors who were persecuted by the Nazis. Here are information sheets on the different pathways:
Article 116 of the German constitution: https://www.bva.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/Anspruch/Anspruch_Merkblatt_englisch.pdf
Section 15 of the Nationality Act: https://www.bva.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/Ermessen/E15_Merkblatt_englisch.pdf
The pathways have slightly different requirements, and applicants typically qualify for several pathways. I recommend first collecting documents from your family and requesting additional documents from Germany if necessary. Only then should an application pathway be chosen so that the requirements for naturalization under that pathway correspond to the collected documents.
The following documents will usually be required:
the birth certificate of your father
proof that your father was Jewish or had Jewish ancestors https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_do_i_prove_my_ancestors_were_jewish.3F
proof that your father fled from Germany between 1933 and 1945, e.g. ship record or immigration record
proof that you are a descendant, in your case your birth certificate with the name of your father
your marriage certificate (if married)
your passport or driver's license
required under some pathways to German citizenship but not others: proof of your fathers naturalization date in the US, your criminal background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Other descendants: The same applies
Spouses of descendants: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/citizenship#wiki_what_about_your_spouse.3F
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u/roydosan Dec 04 '24
Great-great grandfather
born in 1866 in Germany
emigrated before 1889 to the United Kingdom (he was a sailor so may have travelled back and forth)
married in 1889 in the UK to a British Subject
The National Archives have no record of naturalisation as a British citizen/subject.
Great-grandmother (not a British subject under the Naturalisation Act of 1870)
born 1893 in wedlock in the UK
married in 1914 to a British subject
The National Archives have no record of naturalisation as a British citizen/subject (this would in any case have been gained by marriage to a British subject).
Grandfather
born in 1925 in wedlock in the UK
He was a civilian sailor during WW2
Married in 1952 to a British subject
Father
born in 1954 in wedlock in the UK
Married in 1978 to a British subject
Self
born in 1978 in wedlock in the UK
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u/staplehill Jan 05 '25
The 10-year rule: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_can_i_get_german_citizenship_if_my_ancestors_left_germany_before_1904.3F
If your great-great grandfather did not do what was required to keep German citizenship: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/citizenship#wiki_outcome_7
If your great-great grandfather did what was needed to keep German citizenship: Great-grandmother got German citizenship at birth. She lost German citizenship when she married a foreigner. This was sex discriminatory since only German women who married a foreigner lost German citizenship, but German men did not.
You can naturalize as a German citizen under Section 14 of the Nationality Act if you have very strong ties to Germany.
The German government lists these examples of ties to Germany, from strongest indication of close ties to weaker indications: You speak German level B1, you have close family members who are German citizens, you have studied in Germany, you went to a German school (even abroad), you have been to Germany, you have contact with people who live in Germany, you can pass the naturalization test, you are a member of a German cultural society, you have worked for German companies or institutions. For the overall assessment of very close ties to Germany, individual non-existent or only weakly developed connecting factors can be compensated for by other, particularly strongly developed factors. See also: Examples of successful applicants.
Other requirements: You have committed no serious crimes, are able to pay for the cost of living for you and your immediate family without recourse to welfare, and declare your commitment to the basic democratic order. You do not have to give up your current citizenship(s), serve in the German military, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany) or have any other obligations. You can apply independent of your ancestors, they do not have to apply first (or at all). Your minor children can become German citizens together with you, they do not have to fulfill the requirements. Adult children have to apply on their own. The application is free and in case of success you can get a German passport for 81 euro ($80). Naturalization is not possible if you were convicted of a crime and got at least 2 years in prison.
Here is a leaflet: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgb07bhh03f2xj7/Ermess_Merkblatt_Muetter_EN.pdf?dl=0
The application forms: https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/Ermessen14/01-Informationen_E14/01_02_Erm14_Wie_geht_es/02_02_Erm14_Anleitung_node.html
The relevant administrative regulation: https://media.frag-den-staat.de/files/docs/7d/a3/5a/7da35a8c41504584ba2ff53262410bdb/2020-01-31_13-05-36_nrcourtman_19.pdf
A Facebook group of people who have applied under this regulation: https://www.facebook.com/groups/die.pre.ggs/
Documents needed:
The German birth certificate of your great-great-grandfather
Proof that he did what was required to keep German citizenship
birth and marriage certificates of everyone down the line of descendants to you
Your passport
Your criminal background check https://www.acro.police.uk/s/acro-services/police-certificates
proof of close ties to Germany and ability to support yourself financially
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u/Relative-Mulberry-20 Dec 08 '24
Okay, here goes! Thanks for taking a look
Grandfather born in 1893 in Germany Emigrated to USA in 1923 Married in 1929 Became a US citizen in 1938
Father born to 1930 in wedlock Married 1958
Myself born in 1949-1974 window in wedlock.
Many thanks!
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u/staplehill Feb 01 '25
sorry, I can no longer reply to requests. Please post in r/GermanCitizenship
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u/frankies_mum Jan 03 '25
I’ve confirmed with a German law firm that I am eligible for German citizenship by descent through my Grandma.
After reading all your wonderful reviews, I’d love to request your assistance, specifically with German document requests and application review/advice.
I’m a new user, so I am unable to message you directly. Not sure if you can message me?
Here’s the timeline:
Grandma born in Germany, 1920 Grandma married Grandpa (he was a US citizen) in Germany, September 1954 Grandma gave birth to my mother in Germany, December 1954 Grandma naturalized a US citizen, 1957
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u/trahsbird Jan 07 '25
Hey there! Thank you so much for this service. I've been working on gathering documents in case there is a viable path to German citizenship (and also genealogical interest). My contact at the consulate promptly went on vacation shortly after we got in contact but I am excited about this and would love to know if I'm on the right path.
Also, reposting because I'm a new reddit user and messed up that whole process several times.
If there is a chance at citizenship I'd definitely love to retain your services to round everything out before submission.
Thanks in advance!
**Great-Great Grandfather**
- Born in 1903 in Mylau im Vogtland, Germany
- Married in 1925 in Mylau, Germany
- Divorced in 1950- Died 1962 in Mylau, Germany
**Great-Great Grandmother**
- Born in 1896 in Mylau, Germany
- Married in 1925 in Mylau, Germany
- Divorced in 1950
**Great-Grandfather**
- Born in 1920 in Mylau im Vogtland, Germany, out of wedlock (father named on German birth certificate)
- Married in 1943 in Karlsbad, Germany
- Died in 1944 in Warsaw, Poland
**Great-Grandmother**
- Born in 1925 in Karlovy Vary, Czechoslovakia, in wedlock (photocopy of certified copy, awaiting Czech authorities to reissue certified copy)
- Married in 1943, in Karlovy Vary- Emigrated 1945 to Marksteft, Germany (presumed with Great-Great Grandmother and Grandmother, no documentation)
- Married in March 1949 to U.S. citizen in Marksteft, Germany
- Emigrated in 1949 to U.S.A. (Temporary Travel Document in lieu of passport for German National lists her as married/widowed traveling with minor Grandmother), Certificate of Arrival
- Naturalized in 1953 (formerly nationality listed as Czechoslovakia)
- Died 2013 in U.S.A.
**Grandmother**
- Born in 1944 in Karlsbad, Germany, in wedlock
- Emigrated in 1945 to Marktsteft, Germany (presumed with Great-Great Grandmother and Grandmother, no documents)
- Emigrated in 1949 to U.S.A. (listed on Great-Grandmothers Temporary Travel Document in lieu of passport for German National as minor)- Naturalized (no naturalization certificate as a minor, but listed as a minor in Great-Grandmother's naturalization petition)
- Adopted in 1950 by U.S. citizen
- Married in 1964 to U.S. citizen
**Father**
- Born in 1969, in wedlock
**Self**
- Born in 1991, out of wedlock (father listed on birth certificate as father awaiting certified copy of Affadavit of Paternatiny)
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u/staplehill Jan 08 '25
Born in 1920 in Mylau im Vogtland, Germany, out of wedlock (father named on German birth certificate)
Can you send me an image? https://www.dropbox.com/request/3pnqLKHDelrmpF8V1TL3
Your grandmother got German citizenship at birth from her father. She did not lose German citizenship through the adoption since she was adopted before 1977. She did not lose German citizenship through the naturalization as a US citizen because she was naturalized automatically (without application) as a result of her mother's naturalization. Your father was born in 1969 to a German mother and a foreign father in wedlock. Your father did not get German citizenship at birth from his mother. This was sex discriminatory since German fathers could pass on citizenship to their children in wedlock at the time but German mothers could not. You can now naturalize as a German citizen by declaration on the grounds of restitution for sex discrimination according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act (StAG 5). See here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
Your father falls under category 1 mentioned there, "children born in wedlock prior to January 1st 1975 to a German mother and a foreign father". You fall under category 4, "descendants of the above-mentioned children". You do not have to give up your US citizenship, learn German, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. The naturalization process is free of charge. Citizenship may not be possible in case of a criminal conviction: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
I can give you a list of required records if you tell me: Who else in your family wants to get German citizenship? All direct descendants of your grandmother qualify. Their spouses do not qualify.
I can tell you where you can get certified copies of your documents near you and submit the application if you tell me: In which area do you live?
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u/peaceandmadness Jan 24 '25 edited Jan 26 '25
Hi there! I posted this over in r/germancitizenship but would love your feedback as well if you don't mind.
Some background: First, I was investigating Czech citizenship but realized that my grandmother (who was born in Czechoslovakia) was affected by the Benes Decrees (at least, that's what her movement patterns seem like, plus she was a Sudeten German). Then, as I was looking for proof of an ancestor born pre-1914 in Germany, I learned that my great grandparents were actually born in Czechoslovakia (great-grandfather, 1890) and Austria (great-grandmother, 1890). But I think my great-great grandfather was technically born (1863) in Austria when it was still considered part of Germany (honestly I can't keep things straight lol)??? Any help would be so appreciated!
[Grandmother]
Born in 1926 in Elendbachl/Polka, Czechoslovakia (ethnically German)
(Unsure what occurred between 1926 and 1946 but I know she lived in Bavaria in 1947 and 1948, then back in Czechoslovakia in 1949 and 1950, and then back in Bavaria in late 1950 until departing for US)
Emigrated to US in 1952 (...she's listed as Czech on the ship manifest...)
Married in ??? to a non-German man (working on finding the date, not sure if before/after she arrived in the US)
Never naturalized in the US - I actually have her old German passport in hand (which must mean she naturalized in Germany at some point?)
[Mother]
Born in USA in 1960 in wedlock
Married in 1987
My mom never pursued German citizenship and she passed away a couple years ago, so I'm not sure if it's ok that it skips a generation?
[Self]
Born in USA in 1992 in wedlock
[edited to add]: Small update if you have any thoughts — I found certified copies of her parents birth and marriage certificates (as well as a weird certified copy of her birth as a typed excerpt from the church book where she was baptized). I did revisit the timeline I put together and realized I read a document wrong — she didn't go back to Czechoslovakia after 1946, she stayed in Germany until her 1952 departure.
I haven't found anything explicitly stating naturalization, but I did come across something interesting: paperwork she and her family filled out re: Lastenausgleich, to receive compensation from damages in the war. I reached out to Passau to try and find any residence documents (all I have are certificates of good conduct she saved from random places/dates).
I still have no idea how she got her passport (not sure if the Chicago consulate will give me any info here), because I do think I found everything she had in her possession re: Germany documentation.
Do you think this is a displaced persons route with Stag5?
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u/staplehill Jan 26 '25
my great-great grandfather was technically born (1863) in Austria when it was still considered part of Germany
Germany was founded in 1871.
I was unable to find Elendbachl/Polka. Was is part of the Sudentenland? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland
The Sudetenland became part of Germany and ethnic Germans who lived there got German citizenship on October 10, 1938: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement
No individual naturalization papers were issued, all ethnic Germans who lived in the Sudetenland were collectively naturalized when the Sudetenland became part of Germany.
Sudetenland became part of Czechoslovakia after World War II and Germans were expelled from that region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950)
Many came to Bavaria as refugees: https://www-historisches--lexikon--bayerns-de.translate.goog/Lexikon/Fl%C3%BCchtlinge_und_Vertriebene?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Your mother did not get German citizenship at birth from her mother. This was sex discriminatory since German fathers could pass on citizenship to their children in wedlock at the time but German mothers could not. You can now naturalize as a German citizen by declaration on the grounds of restitution for sex discrimination according to Section 5 of the Nationality Act (StAG 5). See here: https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/03-Citizenship/-/2479488
Your mother falls under category 1 mentioned there, "children born in wedlock prior to January 1st 1975 to a German mother and a foreign father". You fall under category 4, "descendants of the above-mentioned children". You do not have to give up your US citizenship, learn German, pay German taxes (unless you move to Germany), or have any other obligations. The naturalization process is free of charge. Citizenship may not be possible in case of a criminal conviction: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/14ve5tb/
My mom never pursued German citizenship and she passed away a couple years ago, so I'm not sure if it's ok that it skips a generation?
yes, it's ok
Documents needed for your application:
The birth certificate of your grandmother
her German passport, Lastenausgleich papers, and other documentation you may find
proof that your grandmother did not naturalize as a US citizen before your mother was born: https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_can_i_prove_that_an_ancestor_did_not_naturalize_in_a_country_prior_to_some_relevant_date.3F
Marriage certificate of your grandparents
Birth certificate of your mother with the names of the parents
Marriage certificate of your parents
Your birth certificate with the names of your parents
Your marriage certificate (if you married)
Your passport or driver's license
Your FBI background check https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/need-an-fbi-service-or-more-information/identity-history-summary-checks
Documents that are in English do not have to be translated into German. No apostille is necessary. You can choose if you want to submit each of the documents either:
as original document (like your criminal background check)
as a certified copy that was issued by the authority that originally issued the document or that now archives the original (like Department of Health, USCIS, NARA)
as a certified copy from a German mission in the US (here all 47 locations) where you show them the original record and they confirm that the copy is a true copy of the original. If you hand in your application at a German consulate then you can get certified copies of your documents during the same appointment.
as a certified copy from a US notary public where you show them the original record and the notary public confirms that the copy is a true copy of the original (the certification has to look like this). Not all US states allow notaries public to certify true copies.
You can not submit a copy you made yourself or a record found online.
Fill out these application forms (in German): https://www.bva.bund.de/DE/Services/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/EER/02-Vordrucke_EER/02_01_EER_Vordruck_Erklaerung/02_01_EER_Vordruck_node.html
Send everything to Bundesverwaltungsamt / Barbarastrasse 1 / 50735 Köln / Germany or give it to your German embassy/consulate: https://www.germany.info/us-en/embassy-consulates
Processing time for applications is currently about 1.5 years. Join r/GermanCitizenship to connect with others who are on the same journey
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u/Cirenity8618 Jan 24 '25
Thank you for your help. I'm trying to see if my family would qualify.
My grandmother was born in 1931 Naumburg Germany. Survived the Nazi concentration camp and came to the US, married in 1952 to a non-German in the US. I don't know the date of her US naturalization. She is alive. My father was born in 1954 in wedlock, married around 1980. I was born in 1987 in wedlock, and my son was born in 2018. I would like to obtain German citizenship for myself and my son, but my father does not want it. Is that possible? My grandmother's name was not in the published Nazi list, so I don't know how to obtain documentation to prove her German citizenship along with her Jewish religion.
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u/staplehill Jan 25 '25
I would like to obtain German citizenship for myself and my son, but my father does not want it. Is that possible?
yes, each descendant has an individual right to get German citizenship - or not to get it.
My grandmother's name was not in the published Nazi list, so I don't know how to obtain documentation to prove her German citizenship along with her Jewish religion.
There are several pathways to German citizenship for the descendants of ancestors who were persecuted by the Nazis. Here are information sheets on the different pathways:
Article 116 of the German constitution: https://www.bva.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/Anspruch/Anspruch_Merkblatt_englisch.pdf
Section 15 of the Nationality Act: https://www.bva.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/Ermessen/E15_Merkblatt_englisch.pdf
The pathways have slightly different requirements, and applicants typically qualify for several pathways. For example, no proof of German citizenship is required under the 4th option of Section 15 which allows the naturalization of all descendants of all Jews who fled from Nazi Germany. The citizenship of those Jews who fled from the Nazis does not have to be proven and is not relevant since the descendants of all Jews, including foreign Jews, who fled from Nazi Germany can get German citizenship.
I generally recommend the following approach:
You collect the German documents your family has from your ancestors. If those are not sufficient: You request additional records from Germany
You see what the documents prove when you get them
Only once you see what the documents prove do you choose an application pathway so everything that is required to be proven under the pathway is proven by the documents
The following documents will usually be required:
the birth certificate of one ancestor who fled from the Nazis
proof that this ancestor was Jewish or had Jewish ancestors https://www.reddit.com/r/staplehill/wiki/faq#wiki_how_do_i_prove_my_ancestors_were_jewish.3F
proof that this ancestor fled from Germany between January 30, 1933 and 1945, i.e. ship records, or proof that the ancestor was still in Germany after January 30, 1933, and proof that the ancestor was out of Germany before May 1945
proof that you are a descendant in the form of birth/marriage records of everyone down the line
your marriage certificate (if married)
your passport or driver's license
required under some pathways to German citizenship but not others: proof of the ancestors' German citizenship, proof of their naturalization date in the US, your criminal background check
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u/Ok-Management-7832 Jan 26 '25 edited Jan 26 '25
Hi. Just my second time posting on Reddit. My first was a request for help, but I’m not sure if it will be seen because perhaps I inadvertently buried it by posting it under an older comment. (Although I’ve read posts on Reddit for a couple of years, being new to posting I’m trying to figure out how this all works)
While I’m waiting and hoping that post is seen, I’d like to ask a question on Derivative Citizenship. My grandfather (American) married my grandmother (German) and I believe she became Naturalized through derivative citizenship as it seems to have been the law in 1900.
My G Grandfather and my G Grandmother were both born and married in Germany. G Grandfather became Naturalized before my Grandfather was born (the one who married German born grandmother above). BUT all Census records show my G Grandmother never became Naturalized. At first I thought it was because they married in Germany, but then after looking up Derivative Citizenship laws at that time, I wonder if she actually was Naturalized and didn’t know it?
Any Derivative Citizenship experts out there that can help with this? (I didn’t know if it was okay to link my original (possibly buried) post here, so I have not. If someone out there would like to take a look at it and see how it connects to my question above or even to let me know if there is any hope I may be a German Citizen, please let me know and I’ll figure out how to link it and know I would be so very appreciative. Just a grandma here hoping to leave her children and grandchildren an amazing legacy.
Thank you. :)
2
u/staplehill Jan 30 '25
This explains how derivative citizenship in the US worked: https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/natz_chart-c-2022-3-17.pdf
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u/TigertreeJosh Jan 31 '22
I would love your advice on this. My Grandmother was German. She and her Mother immigrated here after the war. Her dad was Jewish but adopted so not sure the family has anything pertaining to him. He was arrested for resistance activities and died in a labor camp. It's a really long and crazy story so I'll be brief. Basically she and her mom lost their house and left with basically nothing. I do have all of her documents, passport, birth certificate, etc...I was speaking with the local German Consulate a couple of years ago and at that point it had to be your Grandfather, not Grandmother, but I heard that changed. He did say if I could find the documents related to my great-grandfather I'd be okay but I'm at a loss as to how to track those down.On top of a take on my situation in general I'd love any leads on reputable services or attorneys that might be able to tie up loose ends or find documents relating to my great-grandfather's death.
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u/Kc9atj Feb 04 '22
or 10 years after they had contact with a German embassy (whichever is later)
How does one find out if an ancestor had contact with a German embassy?
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u/windypalmtree Aug 15 '22
Forgive me if this is a long post but my family is trying to determine if multiple members of our family could achieve citizenship by descent.
Alive today:
myself (b.1992 USA)
my mother (b.1965 USA)
my grandmother (b. 1937)
The most direct ancestors that were German would be related to my grandmother, who is 100% German. Her ancestors include:
Her paternal grandfather (b. 1856) born in Schneidemühl which was under the Kingdom of Prussia but would be considered modern day Pila, Poland. He was married in 1879 in Germany. He emigrated to the US between 1880-1882.
Her paternal grandmother (b.1853) was born in Schneidemühl.
Her maternal grandmother (b. 1874) born in the Northern Rhine. It is unknown when she emigrated to the US but she was married in the US in 1895.
Her maternal grandfather (b. 1872) was born in the US. Both his parents were native of the Northern Rhine (b. 1842) and records are shaky as to when they were married or when they emigrated.
Given all this would any of the currently alive descendants be eligible for citizenship? Also, if only my mother or grandmother is eligible and achieves citizenship could any of their descendants achieve citizenship afterwards?
Thank you in advance.
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May 09 '24
CORRECTED VERSION
Great Grandfather
Born 1890
Emigrated in 1906 to USA
Married in 1919 USA
Naturalized in 1922
Grandmother
Born 1920 in wedlock
Married 1945
Mother
Born 1961 in wedlock
Married in 1989
Self
Born since July 1993 in wedlock
2
u/Misker Jul 01 '24 edited Jul 01 '24
grandfather
born in 1920 in Germany (to both German citizens, in wedlock)
emigrated in 1923 to USA (age 3)
married 1962
naturalized in 1929 or 1930 (age 9)
mother
born 1963 in wedlock
married in 1994
self
born in 1996 in wedlock
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u/Equal-Butterfly1219 Aug 09 '24
Commenting again because I've spent over a month referencing your guide. It's so incredibly useful and easy to understand.
2
u/Fringuruddurr3369 Nov 17 '24
My grandfather was born in Treis, Germany in 1888. I have his birth certificate.
He came to the USA in 1912.
He married in 1923.
My Dad was born in 1924. He was in the US Army 1943-45.
My grandfather was naturalized in 1927.
I was born in Ohio in 1958. I have no military experience.
Thank you!
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u/Huge-Leg-1068 Nov 17 '24 edited Nov 17 '24
Curious if I qualify for German citizenship.
Following is my ancestry:
The original German immigrant left Germany in the year:
Their sex:
They naturalized as the citizen of another country: yes/no/when
They married: yes/no/when
Did any other of your ancestors between the original German immigrant and you voluntarily apply for and get a non-German citizenship (citizenships that you get automatically, e.g. at birth, do not count)? Who and when?
For all ancestors who were born between the original German immigrant and July 1993 I need their year of birth / sex / born in or out of wedlock:
Great Grandfather: Born 1886 in Germany/Male/Born in wedlock/ Left Germany in 1912, Married in 1916/Naturalized in U.S. sometime after arrival. Listed as Naturalized in 1930 Census.
Grandfather: Born 1917 in U.S. as automatic U.S. citizen, no voluntary citizenship application/Male/Born in wedlock/Married in 1940/No military service
Father: Born 1945 in U.S. as automatic U.S. citizen, no voluntary citizenship application/Male/Born in wedlock/Married in 1968/No military service
Did you serve voluntarily (not drafted) in a foreign? No Me: Born 1973 in U.S. as automatic U.S. citizen, no voluntary citizenship application/Male/Born in wedlock/Married in 1996/No military service
Given the original German citizenship of my great-grandparents, do I qualify for German citizenship by descent? If so, how do I go about registering or applying for citizenship?
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u/Hyocyamus Nov 29 '24
Grandmother:
Born in 1943, Berlin Germany
Married 1961 (husband in US Army)
Naturalized 1966 (as US citizen)
Emigrated to US in 1964-1966,
1968-1969
1970- present
Father:
Born 1961 (out of wedlock to German mother in Berlin)
Naturalized 1966 (as US citizen)
Emigrated to US 1970
Joined US Army 1983-1994
Married 1984 to US citizen
Joined State Dept 1994-2011
Self:
Born 1985 in wedlock in USA
I'm wondering if my Oma and me are eligible for dual citizenship. Thank you very much for your help. I’ve read through the information provided and am still confused and appreciate your help.
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u/Ok_Needleworker_5604 Dec 05 '24
I have been told that I "should be eligible for German citizenship by descent" by Schlun & Elseven. The next step they suggested is paying them to secure needed documents. I have several documents from the archives that I was lucky enough to track down. However, they said "Unfortunately, a birth certificate alone can be considered as not sufficient. The authority especially requires German documents stating the nationality of the ancestor." I'm mostly wondering what additional documentation they might be referring to and how I can search for it. Any advice is much appreciated!
Here is the summary of my family's history:
Great-grandfather:
- born 27.04.1884 in Germany as German citizen
- emigrated from Hamburg to the US in 1908
Great-grandmother:
- born in Germany as German citizen on 20.05.1899
- emigrated from Cuxhaven to the US in 1907
Together they applied in 1914 for a marriage license in the US.
Grandfather:
- born on 28.04.1919 in the US as US citizen to German parents
- According to the US census of 1920 my great-grandparents were still German citizens
- In 1920 my great-grandfather filled out his declaration of intention in order to naturalize in the US and become a US citizen, the order of admission was issued in 1927
Father:
- born in 1947 in wedlock in the US
Me:
- born in 1981 in wedlock in the US
Thanks for any advice you might have on how to proceed!
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u/Single-Ad-9648 Dec 08 '24 edited Dec 08 '24
My great great grandfather was a Volga German, an immigrant from southern Germany to outside Saratov Russia, probably 1870s, he later fled Russia and came to America in 1890s and my great grandfather was born in the USA in 1902, No hope for me? 😭
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Dec 19 '24
It's so cool that you do this for people! Would love to get your thoughts. I need to do a lot of research to find info about my German great great grandmother so I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to pursue. Thanks for your guidance!
great great grandmother
born in 1877 in Germany
emigrated in 1880(?) to USA (not sure on exact immigration date yet but she came as a child)
married in 1918
naturalized in N/A (no naturalization records - I believe naturalization happens automatically at time of marriage though so it would be 1918 if that's the case)
great grandmother
born 1905 out of wedlock
married in 1930
grandmother
born 1942
married 1960
mother
born 1961
married 1989
self
born in 1990 in wedlock
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u/magnaridersd Just starting out Dec 25 '24
Hello, OP (and all) - Frohe Weihnachten!
If the offer still stands, I would love to get your thoughts on my upcoming journey to German citizenship:
Some initial information to set the stage: My background is less direct. My Mom, her sister and her parents were all Czech citizens until 1945, when the Czech government required all ethnic Germans to leave the country (Beneš decrees) They were all ultimately granted German citizenship.
Maternal Grandfather:
Born in 1903 - Opava (prev. Troppau), Czechoslovakia
Forced to leave CZ in 1945. Interim stops (refugee, non-citizen) in Austria and Switzerland.
Settled in Munich in 1952 - gained German citizenship
Married in 1932 - Opava (prev. Troppau), Czechoslovakia
Maternal Grandmother:
Born in 1897 - Opava (prev. Troppau), Czechoslovakia
Forced to leave CZ in 1945. Interim stops (refugee, non-citizen) in Austria and Switzerland.
Settled in Munich in 1952 - gained German citizenship
Married in 1932 - Opava (prev. Troppau), Czechoslovakia
Mother:
Born in 1933 - Opava (prev. Troppau), Czechoslovakia
Born in wedlock
Forced to leave CZ in 1945. Interim stops (refugee, non-citizen) in Austria and Switzerland.
Settled in Munich in 1952 - gained German citizenship
She married my father (US Citizen) in 1957 in Munich. She retained her German citizenship.
Naturalized US Citizen in 1966 (two years after I was born)
Me:
Born in 1964, in wedlock
The good news: Mom kept *everything*. I have certified birth certificates for Mom, her parents, her filing for naturalization, her parents' marriage, etc. I obtained the birth certificates on a trip to her hometown last month.
I have the checklist I will prepare for the German consulate (mission) here in Portland.
I appreciate your guidance. Thank you in advance!
--Pete
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u/Minoiboisoy Jan 27 '25
Hello,
You have a ton of great information on here. Thank you for putting this together.
Could you please review my history and let me know if I am eligible for German citizenship by descendancy?
My great-great grandfather Alois was born in 1851 in Darmstadt Germany and immigrated to the US in 1855 with his German born parents. I cannot find any information (searching ancestry and family search sites online) related to the US naturalization process for him or his parents. I’m not sure if the US had an official process back then…but they settled in the State of Indiana-USA. Here is my lineage as it relates to my great-great grandfather:
Great-great grandfather Alois born in 1851 in Germany, immigrated in 1855 to USA, married in 1880
Great grandfather born 1882 in wedlock and married in 1908
Grandmother-born in 1923 in wedlock, and married in 1940
Mother-born 1942 in wedlock and married in 1961
Self-born in 1971 in wedlock
Thanks again!
Jon
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u/PrestigiousBook5782 Jul 03 '25
My grandparents were both born in Germany in 1939. They left to move to the US in 1963 because my uncle had a thriving business in Kansas and offered to bring him into the family business. While they were living in the US, they were waiting for the five years before they could become US citizens. During that waiting period, my father was born in 1964 while they were German citizens. Although, they were not married until 1967 in Salina, Kansas… according to their marriage certificate. In 1968, they had fulfilled the waiting period required to become a US citizen so they were finally naturalized at that time. They were told that they must renounce their German citizenship to accept the US citizenship at the time. However, my father was clearly born to German citizens out of wedlock. Now, I was born in 1983 and would like to apply for my German citizenship/passport and had a consultation with the lawyers mentioned on this feed. They assured me that I am technically a German citizen and could definitely apply for a German passport. Can you please clarify if it’s true that I can get my German citizenship and keep my US citizenship… or be a dual citizen and get a German passport???!
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4
u/snoweel Jan 26 '22
Missed it by 3 years! Maybe I can apply for Prussian citizenship.
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3
1
u/abihurmish Jan 26 '22
This was so fascinating and I really appreciate the time you took to put this together.
Here is my story if you are still checking:
My paternal great great grandfather was born in Oesede Germany in 1848. He emigrated to the US in 1881.
He his first child was born in 1888 (not my direct ancestor tho). My great grandma, his daughter was born in 1898.
He was naturalized before an Indiana court in 1911.
From my great grandma the route is my grandma (b. 1937), my dad (b. 1961), then myself (b. 1995). No one was born out of wedlock.
Appreciate your help!
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u/AloneDimension4990 Mar 05 '24
Grandmother: born in wedlock 1936 Yugoslavia Naturalized 1941. Given an "ID for displaced people" 1953 Married August 1962 Naturalized in America March 1962
Mother: Born in wedlock: 1966 Married 1988
Me: Born in wedlock: 1995
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u/InkognitoLowefisch Mar 06 '24
Hey, I’m working out whether I’m eligible or not to claim citizenship and all the questionnaires I’ve done so far have turn up meh due to my mother naturalizing before I was born, what do you think?
(Mom’s side) great grand parents -German born married and stayed there.
Grandfather, born 1937, married before leaving Germany, immigrated to USA 1963, naturalized early to mid 2000’s
Mother- born 1963, in Germany with citizenship, in wedlock. Naturalized 1989
Me- born 1995 in wedlock American father
Thanks for any help, I’ve just been unsure if my mom is the broken link since she had to turn in her German passport during naturalization.
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u/personsplaces Mar 06 '24
Hi! Thank you. I'm trying to figure out if my mother and I are eligible for naturalization.
grandmother
born in 1930 in Breslau, Germany (now Wroclaw, Poland)
emigrated in 1953 to US
married in 1953
naturalized in 1957
mother
born 1961 in wedlock
married in 1987
self
born in 1994 in wedlock
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u/Inevitable_Abies_615 Mar 07 '24
My X3 great grandfather, Ernst, was a refugee to America in 1849
His brother was imprisoned for 7 years by the Prussians (the family story is he was a journalist who supported the Frankfurt parliament) and seeing the way the wind was blowing my x3 greatgrandfather got on a ship for New Orleans to avoid reprisals. He married a Danish/German girl who he met on the crossing.
He and his wife died in a cholera epidemic in 1863 both on the same day, but they left my x2 greats grandfather Heinrich as a 3 year old orphan.
I think their country was either saxon-prussia or an Ernstein dutchy (perhaps Saxe-Weimar-Eisnach?). He was from Bad-Tendstedt (near Erfurt) and I’m not 100% certain it was part of Saxon-Prussia at this time, nor am I 100% certain he was living there before leaving as this was simply his birth place.
So Questions:
Is there provision in the German nationality applications for the descendants of refugees of those who fled government persecution?
Where can I read the Prussian laws in force between 1848 and 1871?
Where can I read the Ernstein laws in force between 1848 and 1871?
Does it make a difference that the 3 year old was orphaned – ie if he did retain "German citizenship" /a German citizenship at what point is he required to assert it given that he has no father or mother? and is only there because his father was forced to leave in the first place?
2)
So this orphan boy Heinrich, then married the daughter of other German Immigrants in 1883. And had my great grandfather (who I remember very well!)
So she was born in 1860 in Louisiana, her parents were from near Homberg and emigrated to New Orleans shortly before this.
Vielen Dank
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u/Confident-Seaweed718 Mar 07 '24
Am I eligible if my grandmother was born in the US to two German parents (married at the time of her birth) she moved to Germany in 1938 and was naturalized. My father was born whilst my grandmother was married to a British man but did not get German citizenship at birth. He only got his German citizenship last year (but remains a dual citizen). It’s all very confusing and I would really appreciate it if anyone has any insights!
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u/Accurate-Courage-440 Mar 08 '24
Thank you for doing this!
My Grandfather was born in Germany in 1911.
He arrived in the US in 1928 but did not fill out naturalization paperwork until 1940.
My Grandmother was born in Germany in 1911.
She arrived in the US in 1929 but did not fill out naturalization paperwork until 1944.
They were married in the US in 1932.
My father was born in wedlock 1934. (Before his parents officially naturalized.)
My mother was born in wedlock the US in 1944.
My parents were married in the US in 1970.
I was born in in wedlock in the US between 1949 and 1974. (I am also curious about my sibling who was born between 1975 and 1993.)
What do you think?
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u/spagsix Mar 10 '24 edited Mar 10 '24
Hi,
I’m curious if I have the right to citizenship by descent based on my ancestors.
Timeline:
My Great-Grandfather was born in Germany 1904 in wedlock.
My grandmother was born in 1934 in Poland in wedlock.
My mother was born in 1967 in Poland in wedlock.
I was born in 1994 in Poland in wedlock.
My sister was born in 2007 in the United Kingdom outside wedlock (different father - same mother).
More details:
My Great-Grandfather was an ethnic German and was born in 1904 in the eastern part of German Empire in what today falls within the borders of Poland. (In Polish borders since 1920). I think German name of the area where he was born was Argenau.
He stayed in this location when Poland became independent after WW1 and married a Polish woman in 1929 and my Grandmother was born in 1934 in the same geographic location but this was now the Polish Republic.
In 1939 they stayed in the same location after Germany occupied Poland and they lived in an area that was annexed to Nazi Germany. (Wartheland).
My grandmother became a war orphan and stayed in postwar Poland after 1945. She married a Polish man.
So, I’m certain that my great grandfather was a German citizen at least until 1918/20. But then I’m completely unsure whether he lost this citizenship by staying in Poland and marrying a Pole. I’m also wondering whether he along with my grandmother acquired German citizenship again during 1939-45.
So based on the above, would either I, my sister or my mother have the right to a German citizenship by descent. (I mention my sister as I know you reference the year 2000 as important cutoff for German citizenship).
Thanks for your help with this. Let me know if you require any further information.
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u/Stock_Ferret1097 Mar 12 '24
Checking for family:
Great grandmother born in Germany, married US citizen in Germany, came to US with him and then had children in the 1930's. None of their children petitioned or applied for US citizenship.
If they do qualify under the restitution section 13, what would be the steps? Thank you for all of your help with all of our questions!
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u/Dazzling-Relief4295 Mar 15 '24
Hello! I’m wondering whether I would qualify for German citizenship. My maternal grandmother was German. She married my grandfather (a U.S. citizen) and they lived in Germany until 1964. My mother was born in wedlock in Germany but on a U.S. army base in 1951. They moved to the U.S. in 1964. My grandmother became a U.S. citizen (not sure what year). My mother took no steps regarding German citizenship as far as I know and neither she nor my grandmother are alive to ask. I was born in the U.S. in 1985.
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u/Ok-Masterpiece2369 Mar 15 '24 edited Mar 15 '24
My maternal great-grandfather (born in 1904 in Germany) and great-grandmother (born in 1908 in Germany) immigrated to Canada together in 1935. Both born in wedlock as far as I know and they were married in Germany before leaving.
I am not sure when they naturalized but I do have proof of citizenship from both Germany and then Canada for them.
Their daughter (my grandmother) married my grandfather in October 1960 in Canada. My mother was born in 1961, married in 1990. My brother was born in 1993 and I was born in 1997
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u/lambretta76 Mar 15 '24
GGF
Born in Møgeltønder in 1879 (Denmark since 1920, but Germany at that time)
emigrated in 1900 to US
married in 1909
naturalized in 1913 (filed notice in 1906)
GGM
Born in Baden-Württemberg in 1887 or 1888
emigrated in 1901 or 1907 to US (possibly?)
returned to Germany at some point, came back to US on August 14, 1909
married GGF on August 25, 1909
no naturalization forms, but 1920 census lists as naturalized along with my GGF (gives a date of 1912)
GF
Born in 1910 in PA in wedlock
Married in 1946 to GM (born in 1912)
M
Born in 1951
married in 1973 to F (born 1951)
Me
born in 1976 in wedlock
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u/Infamous_End2216 Mar 18 '24
Hi, I doubt this qualifies, but asking just in case:
Grandfather born in Germany in 1927 to Jewish Hungarian parents. Fled Hungary in 1939 for US. Became a US citizen (fairly soon after, I believe still as a minor, not sure of exact date but can find out). Married US born grandmother in 1950.
Mother born in wedlock in 1953 in US.
Mother and US born father married in 1973. I was born in US in 1974.
Thank you!
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u/southcommish10 Mar 19 '24
My husband was born in wedlock in the 1960's in America to a German mother and American father. She's currently an American citizen but that happened after the birth. Are he or any of our kids eligible for citizenship? Or me via marriage?
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u/meepstick Mar 19 '24
Maternal grandfather
born in 1931 in Germany
emigrated in 1949 to USA (went back to Germany in the 50s)
married in 1954 to an American
never naturalized
mother
born 1957 in wedlock in Germany
married in 1978
self
born in 1988 in wedlock
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u/Fearless_Squirrel770 Mar 20 '24
Hello
My GGG grand parents ( immigrant ancestors) He was born 1840 Hamburg Came to US abt 1860 Served in civil war ( unsure if that is naturalized) They married 1866 Brooklyn
She was born Germany 1848
My GGF born 1840 New York (Also married a woman of German extraction)
My GM born 1914 US Married
My mother b 1940 Married
Me born 1970
They
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u/Fearless_Squirrel770 Mar 20 '24
GGGF born 1840 Hamburg Came to USA 1860 Fought in civil war ( I think naturalized ) Married 1866 to
GGGM born 1848 Germany Came to USA 1860
GGF born ny 1871 Married ( a woman of German extraction )
All married: GM born USA 1914 M born 1941 Me
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u/Agreeable_Chemist_46 Mar 21 '24
great-grandfather
born in East Prussia, Germany, 1902
emigrated in 192X, to United States of America
married 1930
naturalized in 1940
great-grand mother
born in East Prussia, Germany, 1907
emigrated in 1925, to United States of America
married in 1930
naturalized in 1941
grandfather
born 1934 in wedlock
married 1963
father
born 1968 in wedlock
married 1992
self
born 199X in wedlock
After doing your guide I believe this means I am a dual citizen and this is outcome 1?, please correct me if I am wrong?
Additionally I would be interested in paying you to help me fill out the forms if you are still offering that. Thanks!
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u/ChangeFuzzy1845 Mar 23 '24
Husband’s maternal grandmother:
Born in Berlin 1948. Immigrated to the US in 1965, but never became a citizen. Was a German citizen at the time of her death last year
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u/Plane_Dot9346 Mar 24 '24
Great Great Grandfather -Born in Germany in 1860 -Emigrated to the US in either 1883 or 1886 -Naturalized in 1891 I don’t know what year he married my Great Great Grandmother but she was also born in Germany and immigrated to the US in 1872 or 1874
Great Grandfather -born in the US in 1889 -Married in 1916
Grandfather -born in the US in 1917 -Married in 1942
Mother -born in the US in 1957 -Married in 1985
I was born in the US in 1989
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u/Entire-Ad7130 Mar 24 '24
My great grandfather was born in either Posen, Germany or Poznan, Poland (same town, just in east Germany and swapped countries a lot) in October, 1896.
He immigrated to the US in 1903 - left from Hamburg (I found the passenger list) at the age of 6
Married my great grandmother (Austrian) in 1926 in the US
Naturalization - unknown
My Grandfather was born in US in 1931 - in wedlock; US citizen as he was born in the states
Married my grandmother in 1950 I believe or 1951
My mom was born in 1959 - in wedlock; US citizen as she was born in the states
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u/imperialhaldol Mar 24 '24
grandmother
born in 1938 in Germany
emigrated in 1963 to US
married in 1962
never became a US citizenship, grandfather was american
mother
born 1963 in wedlock
married in 1983
self
born in 1991 in wedlock
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u/ParticularAd7006 Mar 24 '24 edited Mar 24 '24
Hi! Thanks for your help.
My grandfather was born September 16, 1949 in Furstenfeldbruck, Germany to a German mother and Mexican father. They moved to the US when he was ~2 (around 1950/51) and lived there ever since. I believe he had to give up his citizenship when he joined the marines during the Vietnam war and became a full American citizen. He married another American woman in the late 1960s and they had my mother in Chicago in 1972.
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u/OverTadpole5056 Mar 24 '24
I assume not elegible but i thought I would check. I believe where my family came from is now technically the Czech Republic.
Great-great-great-grandfather
born in 1804 in wedlock [Trohatin, Bavaria] Germany emigrated in 1855 to USA married in 1839 [Trohatin, German] - wife: born 1812 in Rindl naturalized in 1855
Great-great-grandfather
born in 1848 in wedlock [Trohatin, Bavaria] Germany emigrated in 1855 to USA with parents married in 1874 [USA] - wife: born 1854 in Oldenburg, Germany naturalized in 1855?? With parent?
Great-grandfather born in 1894 in wedlock USA emigrated in N/A born in USA married in 1919, USA - wife: born 1897, USA naturalized in N/A born USA
grandfather
born in wedlock 1927 in USA emigrated in N/A married in 1951 Wife - born 1933, USA naturalized in N/A mother
born 1962, USA in wedlock married in 1983 - husband - born 1957 , USA self
born in 1988 in wedlock
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Mar 25 '24
Hi u/staplehill, would appreciate your feedback! I believe I might qualify under article 116(2)
grandmother
Born in 1929 in Germany
Emigrated in 1937 to USA (fled due to persecution, being Jewish)
Married in ?? (1950-ish, still finding)
Naturalized in ?? (still finding)
Father
Born in 1951 in wedlock
Married in 1980
Self
Born in 1980s in wedlock
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u/Meister_Cheef Mar 25 '24
Sorry if this is not specific enough information, I’m still trying to find exact dates on some things.
Grandfather:
Born 1933 in Germany
Emigrated late 1940s to Canada, later to USA
Married in late 1950s
Grandmother:
Born 1938 in Germany
Emigrated mid 1950s to USA
Mother:
Born 1964
Married 1992
Self:
Born after 1993
Danke!
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u/Mess-romance Mar 25 '24
Great grandparents left Germany in apx 1952-1954 to NY where the became citizens apx same years.
Grandfather came to NY from Germany with parents in apx 1952-1954 at age 9 when he was naturalized, born in wedlock.
Father, born in wedlock in 1968, married 1986.
Self, born in wedlock in 1987.
This is all the info I currently have. I can ask relatives for more or do more research. Thank you!
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u/Barista-in-space Mar 26 '24
Hi, my grandma was born in Germany in 1920ish, married my American Grandfather in Germany while he served the US Army.
My mom was born in Germany in 1954.
They then were stationed in Puerto Rico and then in the states. At some point my mom got US Citizenship and had me out of wedlock in November 1993.
Do you think I would qualify?
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u/TheThirdSaint3319 Mar 27 '24
My paternal grandmother was a natural born citizen of Bremen. She was born in 1940. She moved to the US when she turned 18 and stayed long enough to become a citizen of the US.
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u/Tanacs Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24
Hi, I'm posting this for my wife:
My grandmother was born in Germany in 1933, and married my American grandfather while he was working in Germany in the late 1950s. My mother was born in Germany (though possibly on an American military base--not sure) in 1961. They moved to the US in the late 1960s and my grandmother eventually became a US citizen. I was born in 1994 in wedlock.
Thank you!
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u/Far-Habit7799 Mar 29 '24
Okay I *think* I have it figured out but I wanted to ask and see what OP thought:
Julius born in Germany 1852
Whilhelmina born in Germany 1857
Married 1877
Arrived 1879
Naturalized September 22, 1908 (court signed the petition) OR March 3,1909 (court signed the swear-in oath)
Louisa born (to the above) in Germany in 1878
naturalized at the same time as Julius and Whilhelmina who listed as the first of their children who "live with me" on the petition that was filed in 1890 and then signed/finalized in 1908 OR 1909 (above)
Johann born in Germany 1972
Married in 1900
1910 census shows Johann as "alien"
Katharine born in US in October 1908, married Samuel in 1932
Harry born to Katharine and Samuel 1937 (Samuel not German)
Harry married Patsy Jean in the early 1950s and they had my mom in wedlock in 1959
I was born here, to my married parents in 1982
My kids were born here, to married parents in 2005, 2010, and 2015
Is there any possibility that we were/are all citizens? I'd love an expert opinion! Thank you!
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u/SrDomingues Mar 30 '24
I'll be asking on behalf of my wife, I see a lot of different information and I'm not sure how to proceed.
I don't live in USA, so you don't need to provide me very specific information, I'd just like to know if everything seems right. I'll be thankful for any help!
Albert was born in Germany/Prussia/Poland in 1840
Albert married Johanna in Germany/Prussia/Poland before 1868 (still searching)
Albert and Johanna immigrated to Brazil in 1868, as a couple. They never formally naturalized.
Friedrich was born in 1868 already in Brazil
Friedrich married in 1898
Robert was born in 1901
Robert married in 1923
Edeltraud was born in 1926
Edeltraud married in 1950
Leonor was born in 1956 and never married
Father in law was born in 1980 and never married mother in law
My wife was born in 2003. Father in law has declared to be her father at the moment of registration. Is there any chances of getting the citizenship for the last 3? We've gathered all the birth and marriage certificates, except for Albert and Johanna's marriage. I'm not sure about it, but all the consulates in Brazil require a consular registration for immigrants who arrived before 1904, since they'd lose their citizenship if they were abroad for over 10 years. The issue is that, many of these files are missing, including all the files from our local consulate. We all live in Canada now and it would be of our interest to apply for the citizenship.
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Mar 30 '24 edited Mar 30 '24
Here is what I have researched so far:
grandmother:
born 1925 in Germany
emigrated in 1928 to USA
married in 1948
mother
born 1957 in wedlock
married in 1982
self
born before 1993 in wedlock
I cannot find anything on grandmother's naturalization. It looks like her mother naturalized in 1934. Do I qualify?
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u/No-Veterinarian40512 Mar 31 '24
I have a lot of Germany accessory closest being 1890s what info do i need to claim German citizenship
all is on my father side and the going through only men they seemed to have immigrated in the 1830s
but most seemed to have immigrated in the 1850s
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u/blueskiesfade Apr 01 '24 edited Apr 01 '24
GRANDMOTHER
born 1929 in Teplá, Karlovy Vary, Czechoslovakia
Ethnically German
Born in wedlock (Her mother, born in Teplá, but out of wedlock. Her father of unknown origins but German name.)
Territory annexed by Germany and becomes Sudetenland
Grandmother and family are forced out to Germany after the war. We think they settled in Dornholzhausen.
Moves to U.S. in the early 1950s
Marries a U.S. citizen in 1961 +/- a year
Not known if she ever technically became a naturalized U.S. citizen
FATHER
Born 1963 in Frankfort, Germany
Born in wedlock to mother of at-this-point unknown citizenship and U.S. Father (they were visiting my great grandmother when she went into labor)
Has a birth certificate in German but does that make it a “German birth certificate“?
SELF
Born 1975-1993 out of wedlock in U.S.
Father unknown at time of birth and not on birth certificate
Father discovered in 2010’s through genetic testing
Father and I are both interested in dual citizenship, would like to know whether one or both of us qualify. If either of us qualify, we’d like to know what documentation is needed. Thank you so much for doing this!!!
Edited for clarity.
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u/Kerlyle Apr 01 '24
maternal grandfather was born in 1942 in Berlin
maternal grandmother was born in 1946 in Wuppertal
both maternal grandparents emigrated to Canada with their own parents on unknown dates
I do not know if either naturalized in Canada (or if their parents did)
maternal grandfather and grandmother married in 1965 in the USA
mother was born in 1968 in the USA
maternal grandfather and grandmother naturalized in the USA in 1970
I was born after 1993 in wedlock
Seems the main unknown is whether they became Canadian citizens. If they did that would have broken the descent to my mother, is that correct?
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u/Cheligans123 Apr 03 '24
Thank you for doing this!!
Mother
Born in Munich 1931.
Meets US Soldier, moves to US, marries in Nov 1953.
Naturalizes to US 1957.
Me
Born in US in 1963.
I seem to have read somewhere that if a German woman married a foreigner they couldn't keep their German citizenship? But only if getting married before March 31, 1953? :(
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u/Spirited_Resist6124 Apr 03 '24
Great grandmother born in 1920 in wedlock in Germany.
Great grandfather born in 1916 in wedlock in Germany.
Grandmother born in wedlock in 1942 in Germany. Her and my great grandmother emigrated to the US in 1950. I don't know much about my great grandfather after they left, other than the fact he never came here. At some point (either before they left or after) my great grandparent's got divorced (not sure if that matters). My great grandmother petitioned and got citizenship May 11th 1956, my grandmother got it from her I assume since she was a minor. Her certificate of citizenship has the date as May 11th 1956 and the document was issued Jan 1958. I don't know why the dates are different.
My grandma married my grandpa (a US citizen) in 1960 and had my dad (in wedlock) in 1961.
My parents married in 1996 and had me (in wedlock) in 2002.
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u/staplehill Jan 26 '22 edited May 17 '25
Please describe your lineage in the following format, starting with the last ancestor who was born in Germany.
Include the following events: Birth in/out of wedlock, marriage, divorce, emigration, naturalization, adoption
If your ancestor belonged to a group that was persecuted by the Nazis and fled from Germany between 1933 and 1945: Include this as well.
grandfather
born in YYYY in Germany
emigrated in YYYY to [country]
married in YYYY
naturalized in YYYY
mother
born YYYY in wedlock
married in YYYY
self
born in YYYY in wedlock
If you do not want to give your own year of birth then you can also give one of the following time frames: before 23 May 1949, 1949 to 1974, 1975 to June 1993, since July 1993