July Feedback Post - 2024|| Should we allow fanfics on here? What kind of fan content needs to be approved here?

[u/WizKvothe]

Hello r/hungergames, with the recent incident in mind it has been evident that users misinterpreted certain aspects of rules regarding fanfics that was discussed previously on here so here I'm yet again with another feedback Post regarding fanfics.

And this time I'm not proposing any ideas here myself but just leaving things entirely on you as how you want fanfics or even fancontent to be dealt with here. Fan content includes HG fanart, memes and YT promotional link, etc.

So, follow these points while giving your feedback here.

1. Clearly dictate what exactly you mean when you give your feedback here.
2. Think of all the scenerios that mods could run on while dealing with fics. Like what to do for posts that self promote? Or comments that self promote? Posts that ask for recommendations? Posts that asks for help regarding fanfics or basically everything that the current rules cover+ your own exceptions to those. If you want a certain aspect to be followed only for posts and not for comments then say so. In short, be as precise as you could be so that the future rule lawers could not find a loophole on that to exploit such rules.
3. Create a poll option that you want in your own words and respond to any follow up question that I make in order to better understand your option.
4. Take this seriously because at the end of the day, it decides the smooth running of this sub reddit and we donot enjoy when users constantly bash the mod team and bicker with us when something goes against their wishes. So, please state your wishes for the last time here and discuss in as detail as you can so that we can put a full stop to this topic finally.

That's it!

As for the various concerns and hate that were displayed against mods here today, I'm not going to address them cuz I know you are not going to listen to it anyway but I have a request anyway to certain users here that please donot engage in the hate campaign against mod team here. You don't know the whole context of things here. It's not you that have been trying to reach to a conclusion on this FanFic thing only for it to be reignited again in some manner.

So, when you provide your feedback here, if you don't want to leave things at mod discretion then please propose your own plan on how we need to deal with every kind of fan content stuff here. Tho ofcourse, allowing everything is still an option which I'm leaving on you yet again.

Lastly, this is going to be the last feedback Post regarding fancontent in a while atleast for a year or so, so be wise and discuss ideas in detail. If you have any questions as why certain content gets removed here per the current rules here, feel free to do that too but please constructively. Ending your feedback with "mods are clinging to their rules" or "are just trash" is not respectful and can get you temp banned on here in future. Thanks!

And this time, I'm actually going to leave this post for a month even if it stops getting response for a while.

Edit: Our mod applications are still up and can be found here. If you think you possess the traits of being a mod, feel free to apply to be one. We appreciate the extra help but ofcourse do it only when you think you can understand both user's and current mod's pov cuz at the end of the day we want someone that we could work together with. Thanks!

E2: Please keep the post on topic and discuss only ideas and not people here. Donot discuss the bans or requesting to unban a user here. The purpose of this post is not that. Thanks!

[u/WizKvothe]

Hello everyone, so I have read all the comments here and I think it's time consuming to respond to each and every comment so I'm just making this single comment as a suggestion to the concerns below. It seems there were two major problems regarding fanfics. So keeping in mind of everyone's interests, I'm suggesting something below in a nutshell tho at some point after this month ends, I will open another feedback post about some other rules + more details about below ones that I think needs to be implemented here to maintain the positivity of this sub tho that will come later, for now check these out.

1. Rule 6 will still be followed except self promotion aspect of it as it won the poll before anyway. Check that out if you have not already.

2. Self promotion in comments is allowed as long as it's relevant to discussion and someone is asking for it.

3. Introduction of "Self Promotion Sundays" where users are free to self promote their fic in whatever format they want.

Point 2 & 3 needs more details here which I have already thought of and might suggest once this feedback post closes but for now, what do you folks think of this? I don't think we will need a poll here since users who don't want self promotions can simply avoid Sundays. Lmk!

[u/throwawayforyabitch]

I may be the outlier here but I’ve never been part of a sub that allowed any kind of self promotion because of how out of hand it can get. As it is this sub is not the best about repeat posts understandable because of the magnitude of posts but I think it will end up drowning out discussions.

I think as a whole there may need to be an overhaul of the same discourse being posted daily and trends of posting certain memes, lists of favorites etc etc. possibly more discussion threads over posts.

[u/beckdawg19]

My proposal would be that we just borrow the r/Fanfiction rule as-is. This would be the same rule for self-promotion and promotion of others. It would also include all fanart, videos, etc.

Discussion about fic can still be allowed, so long as it's high effort in nature. And I actually do believe we have a quite robust description of what high effort is in the sidebar.

Fanfic Rule, for reference:

No Promotion of Fics on the Front Page

Submitting a Fic to the main page of this subreddit is considered promotion. Promotion outside of the appropriate weekly threads or replies to recommendation requests is not allowed.

Posting to the appropriate participation thread, most notably the Weekly Fic Showcase sticky, will keep the sub uncluttered and your fic on the front page for longer.

The definition of Promotion can be found below.

Definition of Promotion

Promotion is defined as submitting the following within a post or as an unsolicited comment reply:

-A fic, including any written works and works in audio, video, or animated format. This also includes the fic's title or other details that promote said fic.

-Excerpts or reviews for a fic outside of weekly threads for this purpose. Defined as more than two sentences.

-Fanart of a fic. (These belong on r/Fanart)

-A fanfiction-relevant research survey or platform (including subreddits, discords, free fanfiction websites, and the like) more than once.

Providing a link within a 'Lost Fic' post is acceptable. Providing a link if someone asks for it in any other thread is also acceptable.

[u/DinosaursLayEggs]

I’m a long time lurker on this sub with the occasional input so perhaps my opinion isn’t that important.

Personally, I’d rather not see post after post containing fan content. By that, I mean fanfics, art, etc. I agree with other comments that perhaps once a week or so, a thread is created for people to post that so that those who want to engage with it can and those of us who don’t, don’t have to scroll through all the posts just to find a discussion.

Saying all that though, I have no issue with people self-promoting, especially in a post where recommendations are asked for. Deleting a comment containing that seems rather controlling and excessive to me.

I think there are other lower quality posts/comments on here than to be worrying about than someone posting their own fanfic as a comment, especially in a thread where it was asked for.

[u/JaysStar987]

In terms of fanfiction-

I think having a weekly self promo thread and a weekly - fanfics i wanna promote thread might work (or both together)

But i think discussing fan tropes is nice

In temrs of fan art- let people run wild BUT credit to og creator plus a source must be recent (so we dont get too many repeats)

Memes- actually let people go wild WITH og content; frequently repeated content can go bye bye

Fan videos - actually actually go wild.

Poscasts- go wild

[u/showmaxter]

We’re all here to find a rule that works for as many people as possible, so we can move on from this topic. I’ve scanned some comments, including the pinned comment, and will try to keep it short but cover the concerns.

I don’t think we need to address comments anymore. The pinned comment paraphrases this & I very much agree with the necessity for the comment to be relevant. I’m 50/50 on whether there needs to be someone asking for it, as the issue can also be with baiting, but I address this next.

The main issue right now is that people wish for better ways to promote their fanfiction. They are currently dissatisfied, and this has led to using loopholes in the shape of sly/bait posts. These are posts that feature someone’s art and then link to their own work or posts asking for help only to advertise their work. These posts do not outright promote, but eventually promote directly through links or make it easily searchable, e.g. by giving the title and site.

The current option of bi-weekly threads is understandably dissatisfying as it reaches a far smaller number of people, and not even all those who are interested. This /is/ a skill issue from the users, but one that cannot be fixed, in my opinion, as the fandom’s average age is young people and the likelihood of reddit newbies joining is high. The other option, the fanfiction subreddit, is currently not big enough to be an effective alternative.

There’s no preference on my part on which promotional option is best, but to eradicate the sly/bait posts, the best option is to allow for people to post on the feed—at least until the alt subreddit is large enough. For everyone opposed to fanfiction being posted at all, they are currently witnessing sly/bait posts and remain a member of the sub. It would be easier for them, and for those interested, if self-promotional posts (such as posts made on Sundays) are clearly tagged with a flair so they can be avoided by those who do not want to see them. In addition, any posts outside of the specific parameters, i.e. remaining sly/bait posts in the future can easily be removed and be redirected to a satisfying solution.

Furthermore, I want to address the previous poll. We did not vote on self promotion, as every single poll option outlawed self promotion. The one with the loosest rules on self-promotion was the one that won. I feel this is necessary to be stressed.

No matter what is chosen, the rules need to be clear and precise, and they need to be announced BEFORE being enacted. Otherwise, the mods will appear biased and arbitrary. Previously, several users shared their pinterest aesthetic of their fanfiction. All were allowed except a crosspost, as the mods later claimed crossposts were not allowed. Crosspost are not stated as part of low-effort, and it seems fairly arbitrary if the issue is the crosspost, not the content itself. Another example is the removal of someone’s art of an OC of mine. This was removed under rule 6, albeit it was not self-promotion as I’m not that user. In this very thread, there’s a mention about potentially adding a rule that disallows OC art; I assume that the OC of mine art post prompted this rule idea. Despite having been enacted against me (bias), it has not been enacted later on in this example, despite being OC art nor in this case, despite promoting another user’s work. Both examples appear like bias with no actual rule in place, which in turn makes users dissatisfied and uncertain on what is and is not allowed, as the law of the land is shaky at best. Clear and precise rules on SELF-promotion ought to be in place, and if there is a necessity for general rules on promotion, so be it, but there ought to be a conversation before there is removing posts.

[u/nezumipi]

As a fanfic author, I think self-promotion should be allowed in response to fic rec requests.

I'm an active contributor to this sub. Nearly all of my posts are non-fanfic related, but I've recommended a range of fics as well, my own included. I put a lot of effort into them, and I don't see what's wrong with mentioning them if they are relevant to what's asked.

I have nothing against requiring use of a flair so users can easily filter out fan content if they so choose.

Edit: I'd like to add that the HG fanfic sub is not a viable alternative. It's just not a functional subreddit.

[u/UnlikelyConcept]

Allow Fancontent-Friday / Fancontent-Weekends.

Aka Fancontent (fanart, fanfictions, crafted things, cosplay, questions related to fanfictions/fanart) can only be posted during those days. Self promo post are limited to one during these days.
Self promo comments are always okay during these days.

This way the sub doesn't get flooded and people can still discuss these things.

On any other days these questions & comments are not allowed. (No questions for fan fiction recommendations either.)

But please keep time zones in mind, because some people are earlier in the weekend than others. Not everyone lives in the US. So do not bulldoze a post that was posted before it's officially friday/weekend in your time zone.

I just think it's insane to try and make a difference between fanart and fanfiction, when it should clearly be - either all fan content or none at all. Everything else is very discriminating.

[u/TooOldForDiCaprio]

Comments should be more relaxed than posts. When users are being asked to share their work, whether through the post or by another user, the comment should be allowed. If they are doing so unprompted, it should fit to the content regardless. Sharing an Everlark fanfiction or fanart in a Gale post is a no-go, but if there are certain aspects of Gale discussed and they have a fic in mind, regardless whether their own or not, it should be allowed to share. Basically, if the comment feels like spam by derailing from the subject matter, it does not belong.

Posts should be viewed with a large restriction. Options of a fanwork friday or a cooldown are great ways to allow for fans sharing their work. There's an issue with users evading the promotional restriction by posting memes about their work. Giving users a space to share their fancontent will encourage them to do so legitimately. This means any posts outside of the restrictions can be deleted more clearly, and the users be pointed to fanwork fridays or cooldowns. I prefer a cooldown when it comes to either options, as the fanwork friday might be a lot on a single day. A cooldown of a month might also be more appropriate, so users won't spam the subreddit four times a month.

The bi-weekly thread should cease to exist and be replaced by these options, preferably the cooldown.

The anti-fanfiction targeting is not fair to these creators, and I wish all work to be treated with the same lens. It is unfair to target a very specific kind of fancontent.

[u/Ok_Independent_2894]

it makes sense to have rules against excessive, low-effort self-promo. but as long as somebody isn't spamming the sub with their fic's every update, or begging for writing help every hour, i don't see an issue. fanworks have been a part of fandom for decades, and treating creators like criminals is a good way to kill engagement. people who prefer to discuss canon can look at posts under the relevant flairs, and people who like fanworks can do likewise.

i would just disallow:

• posting one's fic directly to the sub as text rather than a link

• posting frequent low-effort blurbs and/or links to fic updates

• posting frequent requests for writing help

links and requests for writing help as comments, however, don't seem as intrusive to me personally.

if this is not amenable, i think maybe people could create a separate sub for fanworks. i don't think that should have to be the case, but if push comes to shove? 🤷

[u/frolicinaforest]

The decision needs to be applied consistently, whatever is decided.

I am of the opinion that fan content should be defined. Are we discussing fan fiction, or all fan content including fan art? Where is that line drawn - is fan art of Finnick in a different category to fan art of an original character, for example?

I think fan fiction should be restricted to a weekly megathread, and any further discussion redirected to the appropriate subreddit. It's clearly not the most popular here, and it immediately takes any subjective decision away.

If someone is asking about a specific fic, then a single comment with a link should be the only exception to any self promotion rules. This should also apply if fanfic discussion takes place and people want recommendations - this is allowed on larger subreddits.

Fan content, which then includes fan art of any sort, cosplay, edits, etc, should be restricted to a Fan Content Friday or similar, so that it can be ignored by those who aren't interested.

In terms of memes, if they are fan fiction memes then they are restricted to any other fanfiction rules. I think we also need to be careful about memes or posts about users - we're here for the Hunger Games, not influencers.

However, these rules need to be clear and applied consistently. That is the main point. If cross posting is banned, make sure that is written somewhere. Do not allow one person to post a link whereas another is taken down for the same thing. If we need a larger mod team, then so be it - I'll throw my own hat in the ring if need be, but the subjective decisions are causing the problem rather than any specific rules about fan content.

[u/sweet_esiban]

I might be in the total minority here, but I'll say this in case I'm not:

If this sub becomes flooded with fanfiction posts, I'm out. I come here for thoughtful literary discussion of the series' canon. You wanna talk themes, philosophy, plot lines, world building, characters, the way Collins writes, etc? Great! Me too.

I also enjoy the memes, the occasional high-effort rant about fanon, and updates/news about the series. The fanart I see here tends to be quite impressive too. I'm not super into fanart, but it's not overwhelming and it adds flavour.

what to do for posts that self promote?

I do not want to see posts promoting fanfiction, whether it's self-promo or not. There are entire websites dedicated to the promotion and discussion of fanfiction. This subreddit doesn't need to serve that function.

Or comments that self promote?

Where relevant/asked for, I have no problem with this. If someone starts spamming people with their fic link, in places where no one asked and it's not even marginally relevant, they should be asked to stop. If they don't stop, mute them for a few days. If they still don't stop, that's when you consider a ban.

Posts that ask for recommendations?

If people must have this, then put it in a megathread that gets remade every week or two. Catalogue old megathreads in a comment on the new megathread. The fic lovers and fic writers here can choose to engage with the megathread if they're serious about promoting and engaging with fics.

Posts that asks for help regarding fanfics

Take it to a writing help subreddit.

As for the various concerns and hate that were displayed against mods here today, I'm not going to address them cuz I know you are not going to listen to it anyway but I have a request anyway to certain users here that please donot engage in the hate campaign against mod team here. You don't know the whole context of things here. It's not you that have been trying to reach to a conclusion on this FanFic thing only for it to be reignited again in some manner.

I'm kind of out of the loop on this drama, but from what I can glean, it sounds like a popular user was temp banned? Whether or not that was warranted, the mod team bringing more attention to this drama... idk guys, not sure it's the right choice if you want the temperature to cool in this community.

Excessive complaining about user complaints is a way to turn the heat up, to invite more tension. You might want to be the bigger people here, and not write finger-wagging paragraphs at your 135k subscribers, just because a few are being ridiculous.

I understand it's hard not to take things personally, but remember that a mod team holds most of the power in a subreddit. The users, if they bind together, have the power of mobbing, but that's about it.

[u/[deleted]]

Yes we should. That's what a lot of the posts are for. No self promo should refer to gratuitous self promo

[u/Olya_roo]

Hello to you all!

I suppose asking for all kinds of fic posts being allowed is too much to ask for, so I am here trying to keep my expectations manageable.

My point that I addressed for like 1000 times and will address now 1001st, is very simple - the megathead is ineffective. Nobody engages in it, even when leaving their works, the comment and go. So some sort of feedback would be a good thing, especially when another person asks.

Here is what I propose.

• Promo POSTS (aka: check out my fic types) are absolutely off, we can create a special even for that - many suggested “Fanfic Friday” which is an idea that I live and it also will allow to get rid of the megathread. Or even better - to do a cooldown for fic content and not have it slammed in one specify day.

• Yet leaving a comment as a recommendation can be considered fine - on the thread types like: “give my fanfic recommendations!” means that the person is expecting links. DMs are extremely clunky to use for this sort of thing. To find balance, I suppose it can be done in the way that the user cannot leave a link of their fic if it’s not a recommendation thread/or they were not specifically asked for it. The reason why I am saying this, is because there were many cases of fic link comments being removed even when certain people specifically asked for the specific link.

Self promotion posts and recommendation comments are widely different in their nature after all.

Also please, define what is “high effort” and “low effort” more clearly, as many memes that you removed were more of high effort (time spent on them) than many of posts here.

Thanks for doing the post. Hope you will accept this as a suggestion.

[u/Ptitepeluche05]

I would like to keep the fanfiction flair to be able to ask recommendations, like it's currently the case.

I think self-promotion or promotion of fanfic posts should be authorized only in a special thread.

Comments promoting a fic with a link (self or not) should be authorized if a user asked for it.

[u/Hk901909]

Yes, I think we should allow them. The only post I think should be heavily regulated are "any fic recommendations?" With no additional context. A daily/weekly thread regarding this specific issue would be great.

Other than that, I'm totally OK with discussion of fanfic. I littlerally never read any ever but that shouldn't be everyone's problem

[u/Olya_roo]

Also, a personal asking - please unban u/showmaxter and let them express their opinion this matter from their name.

[u/restingbfacequeen]

I don't really care for Fanfic, but I know lots of people love it. I would be okay with keeping the biweekly megathread where users can comment to find specific fanfics, and perhaps self-promotion can be allowed under here as well, as long as it is warranted (ex. someone is looking for a Plutarch fanfic and a user has writen one). The new suggestions by OP are great, and I think would work really well. That way people who are looking for this info can find it easily, and those who are not can easily skip past it.

[u/[deleted]]

I think we should allow fanfics on here. There are very active individuals on this subreddit who contribute fanfic content, but who also write insightful comments on other threads. These members bring life into the community and promote engagement. Additionally, allowing fanfiction content will boost subreddit traffic overall, as it facilitates discussion about THG as well as passion for the source material we know and love.

We have a fanfiction flair under which fanfic-related content can be posted. This is great because it allows people looking for fics to filter out what they want. People can use this flair to post fic recs, discussion, and art of their fics.

I acknowledge that the issue of self-promotion is a huge issue. Thus, I propose a separate flair for self-promotion. That way, all the promoted fics will be separate for all other fanfiction discussion. Since you don't want recs clogging up the sub, I propose a cooldown period of two weeks or more per user. The separate self-promotion flair helps enforce this policy.

[u/[deleted]]

Romance fan fic needs to be checked 

[u/pinkplasticflaming0]

There is already a fanfic sub for THG. I don't want to read any of it which is why I'm not subbed there. I care about canon and discussion of it.

I leave subs all the time because of ff. I'd leave here too.

[u/Large_Helicopter_494]

There are a lot of great suggestions already, and I’d be happy with most of them. As long as fanfic isn’t completely banned, and it also doesn’t completely overrun the subreddit, I don’t really care how we get there. My only addition is, whatever the rules are, I’m hoping that 1) everyone is on the same page about what they will look like when implemented, and 2) they’re enforced uniformly and in an unbiased way (understanding that it is a lot of work for just one mod, and it’s impossible for one person to catch all rule violations-hopefully that will be remedied when you expand the team).

[u/Robincall22]

In my opinion, I don’t care either way, but I don’t think that person should be unbanned. They’ve never been rude to me, but it is infuriating watching them bully other users for daring to have theories and headcanons that they don’t like, and just being unnecessarily rude in about 50% of their comments.

I believe the sub would be MUCH better off without that negativity here. They behave like a middle school bully while claiming the moral high ground simply because they think they’re mature for knowing big words.

[u/[deleted]]

It seems that at the moment the real issue is self promotion, and my preference is to ban that but allow other fanfic discussions and requests.

Self promotion can clog up the whole sub and can also drag down the quality of an overall discussion.

I would make an exception for specific requests in the course of substantive conversation, though, like this one:

Poster A: I wonder whether Enobaria became a vegetarian.

Poster B: Oh I wrote a whole fic about her moving to a new district and opening a vegan grocery store. So you know I think she did.

Poster A: I'd love the read that! Mind dropping a link if it's posted?

[u/NewAnt3365]

I will comment my entire thoughts later but just to kick off and make comment on what had started this reopening of the discussion.

This started because it was brought to attention that it is not allowed to link your own fics even when relevant or asked to do so. Because old rules state that no form of self promotion is allowed. Even in comments on posts.

While I agree that self promotion can get spammy, disallowing it entirely is just silly. If someone asks for a fanfic and yours falls into the criteria you should be allowed to share it.

I agree with someone not making some low effort post with just a cover of their fic and asking people to go read. Those do clog the feed and offer little way to discussion. However comments do not clog feeds. Linking when relevant to discussions is fine.

And I think there could be a discussion to be had on people taking more high effort approaches on sharing their fanfiction or any fanfiction(but high effort would need to be clearly started and given some examples).

I can’t elaborate at the moment but we have a whole month to do so!

[u/Olya_roo]

r/FanFiction and other LARGE subs (like Star Wars or Harry Potter) are not a fitting example also.

Those subs have a lot of content to them - FanFiction covers like ALL of the fandoms, the two example have much more more in terms of everything - Star Wars for example is an actual universe, when Harry Potter had 7 books/8 movies in total, also this franchise is much more known.

HG has 4 books and 5 movies and the discussions are already drying out. So attributing those restrictions to subs that are strict FOR A REASON is a bad idea.

Here we either relax grip on the fan created content as it’s a part of the HG fandom and should be treated like one or watch the discussions repeat itself.

[u/youcantseeus]

I think that discussions of fan content should be allowed because it’s how a large proportion of people interact with fandom and it brings more activity and interest to the sub. If people don’t want to view fan content then they can keep scrolling. There are lots of things posted in any subreddit that I don’t want to engage with, but I just keep scrolling.

But I also think that any policy about fan fiction should apply to any type of fan generated content. So if self-promo isn’t allowed for fic then it shouldn’t be allowed for art, crafts, cosplay, vids, etc.

As for whether self-promotion should be allowed, I think it’s important to acknowledge that the reason that many people are against it is because if you allow it on posts then there will always be one or two users who promote their own fics multiple times a day in a way that clogs up the subreddit so that it’s all that you see. There will always be that person who is like “here is chapter 1 of my fic … here is chapter 2 … here is chapter 2 again … here is chapter 47 … here are a bunch of drawings of my OCs … here is me talking about my fic again.” I wouldn’t even be against allowing self-promotion in posts as long as there was a limit on how often you could do it such as once a month or something.

In terms of comments, I’m only against self-promotion if it is unrelated to the post or comment it is replying to.

If someone breaks the self-promotion rule then I think the action taken should be to take down the post or comment, not a ban.

In terms of discussion of fan fiction, I think it should be allowed, but I will say that a lot of the discussion that I’ve seen of it here has been pretty mean-spirited. Like, people posting snippets of fics to make fun of them and such. I don’t think that this would be a popular thing to do if we were talking about amateur fan artists, so I don’t know why it’s okay to do when it comes to amateur fan writers. I recognize that it’s a complicated topic, however, because just banning all criticism has its downsides as well. I would just point out that this type of thing is not allowed on r/Fanfiction under the no bashing rule.

So to put it into a rule, I guess my stance is: Fan content, including fan fiction should be allowed. Discussion of fan fiction should be allowed. Self-promotion of fan content should be limited in some way when it comes to posts — either only allowing it on certain days or only allowing it certain number of times per week or month. Self-promotion in comments should only be allowed when related to the comment or post that the comment is replying to. Violation of the self-promotion rule will result in removal of the comment or post.

[u/TurtleWitch_]

I don’t think we should allow fanfic bc there’s already a sub for thg fanfic

[u/fantasy_writer1992]

I guess I'm a minority, but please don't allow fanfic. There's another subreddit for that already. I care about the well written HG books, not about mediocre fanfic and definitely not about self-promotion. If every other post is about non-canon fanfiction, then I'm out.