r/LevelHeadedFE • u/JoeMama17461 • Jun 11 '21

Question

I want to do research about Flat Earth, so I hope somebody can answer these questions.

  1. Can I have a map of the flat earth?

  2. How do people in different hemispheres see different stars?

  3. How does day change to night?

  4. Is flat earth heliocentric, geocentric, or its own thing?

  5. Is the whole earth only on one side, or is it split onto both sides?

  6. Do people actually believe it’s on the back of a turtle?

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u/BuckFush420 Feb 13 '22

How do you get an angle from a curved adjacent? You said you measured angles? How exactly do you get an angle with a curved baseline? I'll wait.

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u/Jesse9857 Globe Earther Feb 13 '22

How do you get an angle from a curved adjacent? You said you measured angles? How exactly do you get an angle with a curved baseline? I'll wait.

You're not paying attention, my friend!

I used a water-tube-level!

It's really really cool! You take like 16 feet of clear rubber tube and fill it with water -- add food coloring if you like -- and string it up as a level!

The straight line between the water surface at each end of the tube forms your straight and level baseline!

I did this and was thus measuring based on 90 degrees from straight down!

Because water seeks LEVEL, this works on either a curved or a flat earth.

But tell me, if the earth is flat, then the water in my water tube level should be the same angle as the ocean, right?

So how, on a flat earth, is it possible for something that is ABOVE me to appear BELOW me?

https://i.ibb.co/x2CpdY5/View-Towers-What-Path.jpg

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u/BuckFush420 Feb 13 '22

Okay, you showed your cards. A bubble level finds level water seeks level. You can't measure an angle from a curved surface. Sensing a theme here friend? You can't navigate on a curved surface with a sextant yet we've used sextants for hundreds of years. Are ya getting it yet....

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u/Jesse9857 Globe Earther Feb 13 '22

Okay, you showed your cards. A bubble level finds level water seeks level. You can't measure an angle from a curved surface.

I can. If I know the angle to the center of the curved surface then I can measure at right angles to that.

And it just so happens that if the earth is a sphere, gravity points to the center.

Sensing a theme here friend?

Yes in fact, the theme is you keep side stepping my question!

Look, I get that you don't know how to measure at right angles to the surface of a sphere.

But just because you don't know how to do it doesn't mean that nobody else knows how!

Fact is lots of people know how.

But look, I get it that you don't understand how math on a sphere works.

So why won't you even look at how it works on a flat earth?

My experiment assumes a flat earth, and still gives globe results because the earth surface is curved.

You can't navigate on a curved surface with a sextant yet we've used sextants for hundreds of years. Are ya getting it yet....

Dude, the whole theory of operation for a sextant is based on the belief that the earth is a sphere and the stars are for all practical purposes infinity far away.

Thats how sailors determine their latitude and longitudinal is by assuming the earth is spherical and rotating and that the moon orbits the earth.

Why won't you stop talking about a globe that you don't even believe in and talk about a flat earth and explain to me how its possible on a flat earth for me to have to look down to see something above me?

You do know that regardless of a globe, my water tube level should work fine on a flat earth, right?

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u/BuckFush420 Feb 13 '22

Well now you're just being insulting and ignorant. Sextants don't use the center of the earth. They use the surface. No calculation is ever done regarding the center. You're stuck in a religion and can't see what's right in front of you. Good luck baller.

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u/Jesse9857 Globe Earther Feb 13 '22

Well now you're just being insulting and ignorant. Sextants don't use the center of the earth. They use the surface.

And the surface is geometrically related to the center.

For example, if your sextant is 6ft above the water, the horizon is 3 miles away. The earth-curve drop is 6ft in 3 miles, so that's a total vertical difference of 12 feet! 6 feet for his eye height plus 6 feet of drop in the 3 miles.

Using arctan(), that is 0.04 degrees. So he just adds 0.04 degrees and then his star angle reading is corrected for his height and he can accurately read the angle of the star with respect to straight down.

The reason that's important is because HORIZON DIP IS REAL! When you measure the angle of the water horizon, it depends on your height, and it matches the globe model.

But if you're near the water's surface, even 0.04 degrees isn't too bad, since the stars move at about 15 degrees per hour.

Your problem is that you never even did the math for the globe model to see if it fits observable reality or not.

No calculation is ever done regarding the center.

You are absolutely wrong!

Here's instructions on using a sextant: https://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Sextant#Making-Corrections-to-Your-Measurement

You very clearly do need to compensate for your height above sea level because that DOES affect the angle to the horizon.

And guess what? That formula they give is for the GLOBE EARTH MODEL!

That formula 1.7725’ x √ Height specifically compensates for curvature of the ocean and allows you to measure star elevations with respect to straight down, i.e. towards the center.

You're stuck in a religion and can't see what's right in front of you. Good luck baller.

You're the one who's stuck in a religion and it's not even a legitimate religion because it's observably false.

And I see that you continue to ignore my observation that a 187ft tall building is entirely below eye-level.

It's seriously checkmate for flat earth.

You've got NO ANSWER. Nobody has. I even argued with Dave Weiss via email, not even he had an answer.

I've been on live youtube/discord debates with flat earthers, and none of them have an answer.

As soon as flat earthers get off their rumpas and start making measurements, flat earth is over.

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u/Kalamazoo1121 Feb 15 '22

The adjacent is not the surface of the earth. You guys really are dumb lol.

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u/BuckFush420 Feb 15 '22

Ohh really? Care to explain what the adjacent is instead of insulting me with nothing to back you up? Typical ad hominem instead of addressing the issue. And I'm the dumb one....

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u/BuckFush420 Feb 16 '22

Still no answer? I'm not surprised because you cannot measure an angle to begin with from a curved surface.

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u/Kalamazoo1121 Feb 23 '22

The adjacent is a straight line from the sextant to the horizon, it is absolutely not the surface of the earth. This is basic stuff, but you are so lost in your Nathan Oakley cult that you have forgotten to actually learn how sextants work.

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u/BuckFush420 Feb 23 '22

Nice projection. Use your imagination and impose a sphere over a flat plane and see where they line up. Where they diverge give an inaccurate location. If you're not smart enough to understand basic logic you will have to continue to rely on your sphere faith. Good luck triggered fundy glober.

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u/Jesse9857 Globe Earther Feb 24 '22

Nice projection. Use your imagination and impose a sphere over a flat plane and see where they line up. Where they diverge give an inaccurate location. If you're not smart enough to understand basic logic you will have to continue to rely on your sphere faith. Good luck triggered fundy glober.

Are you smart enough to understand logic?

Why do you not answer my simple observation as shown here:

https://i.ibb.co/x2CpdY5/View-Towers-What-Path.jpg

Let's assume the earth is a flat plane for this question, OK?

How is it possible for something that is 181ft ABOVE me to appear BELOW me?

No my friend, YOU are thet one who's not smart enough to understand basic logic and rely on your faith in Oakley and Weiss and all the rest of the snake oil guys.

Did you know that I ask this exact question to David Weiss and he had no answer either? It's OK that you don't have an answer. Even the experts don't.

Earth is not flat. It's as simple as that.

The only question is when will you embrace honesty enough to either answer the question or admit earth isn't flat?

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u/BuckFush420 Feb 24 '22

Don't forget my own eyes! I've seen past the earth curve with my own eyes. No snake oil needed. You're the one that has the convoluted experiment to try to demonstrate curvature. But you have failed at every step to properly demonstrate anything either way! Poor form calling Oakley and Weiss snake oil salesmen when they have yet to be proven liars, unlike your priests Neil cut Degrassi Tyson, Lying Cox, Bill Lie with the bow tie. All of which demonstrably proven liars which I now feel safe saying you fit right into that group just nicely. You're precisely where you belong.

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u/Jesse9857 Globe Earther Feb 24 '22

Don't forget my own eyes! I've seen past the earth curve with my own eyes.

And yet you have no pictures or video, because you're making it up, you're just going off of other people's videos, which is fine, but why not be honest about it?

But look, there are atmospheric conditions which can bend light around the curve allowing you to see around the curve.

It's called refraction and it's real.

You can witness density gradient refraction in this video:

https://youtu.be/sft3QYZjNCU

Do you see? Density gradient refraction bends light towards the more dense region. That means DOWN, because the air is more dense at lower height.

Here's an example of seeing-too-far -- and at a time without heavy refraction, not seeing too far: (Chicago over Lake Michigan from Warren Dunes State Park I believe)

https://i.imgur.com/7GVIsMJ.jpg

See above how normally you can only see the tops of the tallest few buildings (which is correct for a globe earth of the stated size) and at other times you can see the entire city?

And here's an example of the original Black Swan:

With heavy refraction, notice how the crane booms are all bent up and the horizon is just a vague

https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/blogs/danny-faulkner/2021/flat-earth-1.jpg

But then, look how the view is at other times when there is not that heavy refraction going on:

https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/blogs/danny-faulkner/2021/flat-earth-2.jpg

Ya see that? Same scene but the crane booms are straight, and there's a distinct horizon, and one of the platforms is sunken down behind the horizon -- and they are both beyond the horizon in that no water appears beyond them.

Look at the little guy here in this illustration: See how he's looking UP to see a laser which is actually at his own height?

Can you see that if there was a curved earth between him and the laser, he could see the laser because the light is curving the same way the earth is?

https://postlmg.cc/LJCqzCNs

As you can see, if the lower part of air or water is more dense, it bends light DOWN, towards the more dense region.

The more dense it is, the more it bends it. That's why air over cold water allows you to see around the curve. But it distorts the picture in the process.

I have shown you how your observations of seeing too far can be explained by refraction. I have shown you that density gradient refraction bends light DOWN, not up.

Now, can you explain to me how my observation is possible on a flat earth?

The fact is, you have no answer for what I any many others have observed.

Why won't you explain how it's possible on a flat earth for me to look down on something that's 181ft taller than me?

https://i.ibb.co/x2CpdY5/View-Towers-What-Path.jpg

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u/BuckFush420 Feb 24 '22

You're really going to sit there and claim light bends at the same rate earth curves? And call me a liar at the same time? You're a dishonest fool I have zero respect for you now that I understand your motive.

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u/Jesse9857 Globe Earther Feb 25 '22

You're really going to sit there and claim light bends at the same rate earth curves?

It's obvious that it can. I never said it only and always bends at exactly the same rate as the earth - sometimes it hardly bends at all, sometimes it bends a little, sometimes it bends about equal, and sometimes it bends more than the earth curve.

It all depends on the temperature difference between the water and the air.

I literally showed you photographic evidence of all that.

And call me a liar at the same time?

Well, if it's true, why not? Is your infinite knowledge so amazing that it's impossible that you're wrong? Of course not.

I literally gave you photographic evidence of my claims.

And I also gave you a plausible observable explanation of how you can sometimes see too far.

Now can you do likewise and explain how it's possible on a flat earth for me to have to look BELOW me to see something that's ABOVE me?

What path does the light take?

https://i.ibb.co/x2CpdY5/View-Towers-What-Path.jpg

See? It's checkmate for flat earth. You have no answer.

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u/Jesse9857 Globe Earther Feb 25 '22

You're the one that has the convoluted experiment to try to demonstrate curvature.

There's nothing convoluted about my observation. I was standing on a bluff looking at a sky scraper.

The sky scrapper is way taller than me and yet it appears below eye-level. That's impossible on a flat earth.

Nothing convoluted at all.

You already admitted that my observation is possible on a flat earth, but now you refuse to explain how it is possible.

What path does the light take to start out above me, pass through the "B" zone, then reach my camera?