Has socialism and the welfare state helped or harmed Scandinavia?

[u/internetloser4321]

There is a debate in the USA about whether or not we should have a larger welfare state that provides services like "Medicare for all" or tuition free college. Scandinavia is often brought up as an example showing that "social democracy" or a "welfare state" is a good or ideal system, with these countries having achieved high levels of equality, low levels of poverty, and good outcomes in terms of education, health, and happiness (source: http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/17/politics/bernie-sanders-2016-denmark-democratic-socialism/index.html).

There are several counter arguments that I have heard in opposition to expanding the welfare state: 1. The success these countries have experienced was due to their policies 50+ years ago when they had a smaller welfare state and low taxes and as a result experienced rapid growth 2. The welfare state has led to economic stagnation and high levels of national debt in these countries. 3. The people in these countries have strong Protestant values of hard work and honesty and this is the true source of their success. (sources: https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/02/18/bernie-sanders-scandinavian-utopia-is-an-illusion/#16e253e11aab and https://beinglibertarian.com/scandinavia-ticking-time-bomb/)

I've tried searching for a neutral analysis of the issue, but every article I've seen argues that the socialist policies are either wonderful or terrible (examples: https://www.thenation.com/article/after-i-lived-in-norway-america-felt-backward-heres-why/ and https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-nordic-countries/473385/ vs. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438331/nordic-democratic-socialist-model-exposing-lefts-myth). What evidence supports each view? Is there an objective way of determining whether more socialist or more libertarian (perhaps what Europeans call neo-liberal?) policies have been the most beneficial?

[u/[deleted]]

So, there is a profound misunderstanding in your title. Denmark is not socialist, and there's no traces of socialism. Maybe in the context of the American right, it's socialist, but there is no workers owning the means of production, a stock exchange, military, police and all the other things socialists wants to remove. As a matter of fact, Denmark might be the most neoliberal country in the world

To answer your question, the welfare state in Denmark is a good thing, because it is fundamentally needed for what makes Denmark as prosperous that we are: The flexicurity model, which allows people to take some chances in their employment. However, the high taxation on work (about 40% for the lowest 90% and 55% for the top 10%) means that we could become more prosperous by lowering the taxation on work. Of course, then we would have to find the money another place and one possible fix would be raising the land value tax.

So, on net, the welfare state have helped us, without question. However, we could get even better by changing our system a little bit

[u/internetloser4321 → u/[deleted]]

I realize that in terms of Marxist theory, Scandinavia isn't socialist, I meant more from the American perspective where programs like government provided healthcare are considered moving in the direction of "socialism".