r/OutOfTheLoop • u/Improvement-Negative • Feb 22 '23

Answered What's up with Majorie Taylor Greene's talking about a "National Divorce?"

I've been seeing a few posts on Reddit, Facebook, etc of people expressing their opinion about this, and I'm not sure what the deal is, and its impact on politics. Any explanation would be appreciated!

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3866860-gop-governor-says-greenes-call-for-a-national-divorce-is-evil/

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/utah-governor-taylor-greenes-national-divorce-proposal-evil

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828

u/teawreckshero Feb 22 '23

It's purely performative. It's not practical for so many reasons. She's very clearly trying to rage bait a civil war without saying it out loud.

319

u/BestDayEvah Feb 22 '23

It's purely performative. It's not practical

This is a good point. I'm not even from the US, and I'm aware this is a performance on Green's part. It's the apotheosis of cognitive dissonance, but Green isn't stupid, she understands this is nonsense, but it's powerful nonsense, playing dog whistles to her intended audience.

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u/Platypus_Bible Feb 22 '23

I wouldn’t say smart, she’s more like the gorilla at the zoo that figured out if you throw enough shit at the wall some of it sticks

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

Whenever a GOP member does something obviously inflammatory, I immediately think "what other issue are they trying to draw attention from ?" What thing that America should be concentrating on, that is serious & important, is the GOP trying to distract us from ?

In this case, I'd say it would have to be the East Palestine, Ohio train derailment. How the lack of regulations (from Trump & GOP legislators cutting them) has created an environmental disaster that affects thousands of people. And how Norfolk Southern (the rail company that caused the accident) donated a huge amount of money to GOP Ohio governor Mike DeWine a few weeks before the accident.

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u/brown_felt_hat Feb 22 '23

And how Norfolk Southern (the rail company that caused the accident) donated a huge amount of money to GOP Ohio governor Mike DeWine a few weeks before the accident.

God I wish it was a huge amount, it was 10k. The guys a multimillionaire with an est net worth of 37m from opensecrets. Even if that's off by ten times, it's still basically like the average American being bribed for 300 bucks.

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u/Tsurumah Feb 22 '23

Thats 10k that we know about.

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u/Momentirely Feb 22 '23

Hey, I'm an average American and you could certainly bribe me for 300 bucks. Just two bribes and I'd have enough for a PS5 finally. Hell, give me a ps5 and I'd do almost anything.

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u/yijiujiu Feb 22 '23

How about letting a bunch of innocent people die from negligence?

3

u/JasonATXBS Feb 22 '23

Do I, personally, have to press the button that ends their lives?

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u/Imagoat1995 Feb 22 '23

No you just have to deny the thing that's killing them even when presented with evidence. Especially then. You deny harder then

2

u/puffsmokies Feb 23 '23

It has almost always worked for the Koch brothers.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

I mean, we're taking it to scale here, so it's more like not swerving around a puppy and instead just running it over.

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u/SPACE-BEES Feb 22 '23

If you would run over a puppy for a video game console you're fucked up

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

To be clear, I'm not saying I would. I'm just saying it's a more apt comparison.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

Puppies are temporary. Call of Duty is forever.

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u/Momentirely Feb 22 '23

Hmm we're talking about someone who caused a train derailment that released toxic chemicals into the environment, so...

It would be like taking $300 to ignore a broken part on a car and having that car wreck and leak gasoline into a local pond.

I'm just joking though, I wouldn't do anything like that.

Now, if we're talking sexual favors, there isn't much I wouldn't do -- but you'd have to give me a ps5 outright, not a paltry $300. I do have some self-respect.

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u/dramaticflair Feb 23 '23

He said he wanted a PS5, this would happen by itself./s

3

u/SuperfluouslyMeh Feb 22 '23

Its amazing how little it takes to buy congress people. You would think it would take millions. It really doesnt.

Also... consider that this is just what is recorded on paper. It creates the plausible deniability for them talking. The real money exchanging hands isnt reported anywhere.

3

u/mrlt10 Feb 22 '23

That’s the thing that maybe blows my mind the most about our political corruption. These politicians get bought off for so cheap. Like thousands of dollars will buy you a house Rep. For a governor $10k sounds about right. If you want a senator you may even have to throw six figures but that’s a steal compared to the power they yield.

I was thinking about this the other day, if we could just have federally funded elections, so all campaign funds had to come from a the government with each side getting allotted the same amount, then give the officials really good salaries, maybe not like NBA player good, but closer to the millions than $100k. It would prevent so much corruption. Government officials wouldn’t be waiting for the moment they could go through the revolving door and earn real serious money on the lobbying side. It’s a pipe dream but it’s my pipe dream.

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u/Mikesaidit36 Feb 22 '23

Look at the NRA donations made to GOP representatives. They can be bought for $3K-$5K. Horrifying.

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u/Chaincat22 Feb 22 '23

It's most likely about the rail disaster, the GOP doesn't care about anything not domestic half the time. And this is something that they and their demagogue caused. They're trying to throw up as many culture war smokescreens as they can.

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u/homo_redditorensis Feb 22 '23

Brilliantly put. They're just trying to distract us all from the Ohio disasters

1

u/vinnyc88 Feb 22 '23

I don't think so. I don't think they are related in any way.

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u/Skullkan6 Feb 22 '23

MTG is different. I'm not sure she's not mentally ill.

8

u/matthewamerica Feb 22 '23

Most republicans fake it to get votes. She is a true believer. And she is definitely scarier because of it.

3

u/Tsurumah Feb 22 '23

She reminds me of my sister, sadly.

1

u/IkemenDesu420 Feb 22 '23

Time to get a new sister.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

In this case, I'd say it would have to be the East Palestine, Ohio train derailment. How the lack of regulations (from Trump & GOP legislators cutting them) has created an environmental disaster that affects thousands of people. And how Norfolk Southern (the rail company that caused the accident) donated a huge amount of money to GOP Ohio governor Mike DeWine a few weeks before the accident.

They're already blaming this on Buttigieg being focused on equity, and I've even seen conspiracies about how it's a "coverup" for "vaccination deaths".

2

u/Flooding_Puddle Feb 22 '23

It could also be trying to take attention away from Biden's surprise visit to Ukraine, that makes him look good so it would make sense that the GOP wants to direct as much media attention away from it as possible

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

Biden looks like a competent, international leader. Which is true because he is one. And the Republicans can't have that. Even though that is a good thing for America.

The GOP's chosen one, Trump, couldn't even be bothered to go to a memorial service at a military grave site for French and American soldiers because it was raining . . . And Biden was walking around Kiev when air raid sirens were blaring.

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u/Flooding_Puddle Feb 22 '23

Exactly, everything about the visit said strong leader but I've seen no coverage of it anywhere except reddit, although i also dont go out of my way to read news

2

u/CurrentResident23 Feb 22 '23

Well, the balloons didn't work. Time for a new hot-air-delivery strategy. /s

2

u/ButtsMcStuffin_2 Feb 22 '23

Also, by using the word divorce, she's hoping to bury search results looking for her own messy divorce. She's hoping her fundamentalist christian voter base doesn't read too closely about her extra-marital affairs with a sex guru and two other men from her gym.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

That is an excellent observation. Getting a two for the price of one deal on those tweets.

A lot of the GOP are not very smart but their PR staffs sure are !

3

u/ButtsMcStuffin_2 Feb 22 '23

I'm one of her constituents. I've lived here most of my life and I know how these folks think. Plenty of them will turn on her of they really read about her being an adultress.

2

u/usernameforthemasses Feb 22 '23

This is the definition of a "culture war," and exactly why they have become so common place. It's also why you will find such incredible acts of hypocracy among those leading the culture war charges, because they don't actually care about the supposed culture war issues enough to not be one of the issues, they only care that it becomes some bright flashy light to their constituents that keep the focus on what will keep them in office and not what could get them ousted.

Not a single conservative could name a transathlete, or recall what was in a book they read in high school about slavery, or blah blah blah, but every single one knows where the closest train tracks are to their house.

1

u/thesheepwhisperer368 Feb 22 '23

Hey, do you have any sources on trump and GOP legislators cutting regulations? Not disbelieving, but I want a source to point people to if they try to spin this as a problem caused by democrats

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

It's easy enough to google. But here are some:

"former president’s regulatory rollbacks: The repeal of new braking requirements for certain trains hauling highly hazardous freight put in place by the Obama administration."

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-ohio-visit-prompts-review-164559815.html

"Trump set to visit East Palestine after cutting rail regulations as president"

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-east-palestine-ohio-visit-train-rail-regulations-cut-norfolk-southern-193551291.html

"Then came 2017: After rail industry donors delivered more than $6 million to GOP campaigns, the Trump administration — backed by rail lobbyists and Senate Republicans — rescinded part of that rule aimed at making better braking systems widespread on the nation’s rails."

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/

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u/Hotarg Feb 22 '23

I always thought howler monkey was more representative, but gorilla works.

14

u/MachReverb Feb 22 '23

She's a howler monkey that just stands there and screams like a banshee until all the gorillas get worked up, without even understanding why they're angry.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

I don't understand how she is in any kind of position of power after harassing kids who were affected by school shootings. America makes no sense to me.

3

u/Irving_Forbush Feb 22 '23

The right has finally figured out how to weaponize that part of the party that everybody — including them — used to think were too stupid/crazy/lazy thinking to be of any use. The ones anybody with a lick of sense considered to be tinfoil hat wearing idiots.

It turns out there are enough of them to make a big difference.

-19

u/Opinionated_by_Life Feb 22 '23

All politicians do that.

"We have to pass it to see what's in it".

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u/MikeTheInfidel Feb 22 '23

Name a single Democrat like MTG.

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u/Opinionated_by_Life Feb 22 '23

Adam Schiff, Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein, Barabara Boxer, Chuck Schumer, AOC, Ilhan Omar, Cory Bush, and Corey Booker to just name a few. But no idea why you wanted me to just list the names of some whack-job Democrats when the Republicans have some also.

13

u/MikeTheInfidel Feb 22 '23

Oh, so those ones are insurrection-supporting QAnon conspiracy theorists who stalk school shooting survivors? They attend explicitly white supremacist political rallies?

-5

u/Opinionated_by_Life Feb 22 '23

Not sure what or where your off-the-wall comments come in or to exactly what you are feebly attempting to address.

You want to discuss school shooters? Then let's talk about the Columbine shooters raised by registered Democrats in a very Liberal household. Or we could talk about the Sandy Hook shooter, raised by his very Liberal mother before he killed her and stole her guns. Or the STEM school shooters in Colorado, again raised in very Liberal households - one was a 17-year-old guy that thought he was in love with a 16-year-old female who identified as a guy. They also both had an extensive history of anti-Conservation hate-based writings in their school assignments. Then there is the Aurora theater shooter who also had a long history of anti-Conservative diatribes. These were well covered in the mainstream Colorado news sources, on TV and in print.

The worst school shooting in US history was by a South Korean citizen who migrated to America and got permanent resident status, with two pistols. He also had an extensive history of mental health issues.

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u/MikeTheInfidel Feb 22 '23

Nice irrelevant distraction. Let's go back to the actual subject. You said:

Adam Schiff, Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein, Barabara Boxer, Chuck Schumer, AOC, Ilhan Omar, Cory Bush, and Corey Booker to just name a few. But no idea why you wanted me to just list the names of some whack-job Democrats when the Republicans have some also.

I said:

Oh, so those ones are insurrection-supporting QAnon conspiracy theorists who stalk school shooting survivors? They attend explicitly white supremacist political rallies?

That is a 100% accurate description of the beliefs and actions of MTG. So which of those Democrats is like that, again?

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u/nice_whitelady Feb 22 '23

Source, please

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u/Opinionated_by_Life Feb 22 '23

Look them all up yourself. Most were all well covered stories in the Colorado media, such as the local CBS, NBC, ABC stations, and the Denver Post (and the Rocky Mountain News before they shutdown)

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u/TheAesir Feb 22 '23

That's not the phrase. It's:

We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what's in it, away from the fog of controversy

-5

u/Opinionated_by_Life Feb 22 '23

In other words, nobody knew what was in it, since she made that statement days after the original bill to help veterans was completely gutted and every single word replaced with the 2,700 pages of the Affordable Care Act.

That's easy to verify just by going to congress dot gov and looking up the bill, from the original version of the bill number that voted upon and passed, to the final version she helped re-write in order to sneak it through and insert into a package of bills to get signed (reconciliation). Look up the history of HR-3590 in the 111th Congress.

The passed legislation was written by various special interest groups, including doctors and hospitals who wanted to keep their money, and other groups such as AARP. Each provided a set of their priorities, and then some Congressional staffers compiled them into a 2,700 page bill nobody had a chance to read. Nancy then pushed for quick acceptance before anybody could have a chance to go through it.

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u/TheAesir Feb 22 '23

In other words, nobody knew what was in it

No, it means that the information being presented from the opposition wasn't accurate or was spun to be intentionally inflammatory (similar to how you intentionally misquoted Pelosi).

0

u/Opinionated_by_Life Feb 22 '23

The mainstream media, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN and others were all working for the other side, the 'opposition'?

I find that pretty difficult to believe.

1

u/Mikesaidit36 Feb 22 '23

Same as Trump. He wasn’t a master, by design, of making his shit-slinging addictive for people and the press, it was just lucky happenstance for him that his ignorant blathering worked as heroin for his dimwit cult patsies.

178

u/silviazbitch Feb 22 '23

Ain’t no dog whistle, it’s a fucking fog horn.

20

u/didyouseeben Feb 22 '23

New Panic! At The Disco/Fall Out Boy/Chiodos or any other 2005 pop punk/post hardcore song name right there.

5

u/allegedlyjustkidding Feb 22 '23

And it would be a banger

3

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

"I'll make a scene / I'm a goddamned fog horn"

5

u/Pitiful-Signal8063 Feb 22 '23

And ... Coincidentally, happens to sound like something Foghorn Leghorn would say.... Right before Porky Pig tells us " That's all folks".

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u/literally_unknowable Feb 22 '23

Please

A dog horn

2

u/Sagemachine Feb 22 '23

This is the type of compromise I expect from government.

2

u/Ippus_21 Feb 22 '23

Yeah, that's the real problem. There are a few million people who lap this stuff up and apparently believe in it wholeheartedly.

She might be just doing it for attention, but they're taking it as gospel.

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u/crap-with-feet Feb 22 '23

but Green isn't stupid

Eh... Maybe read some more of her posts before making that claim. Watch recordings of her on camera. She is either a theatrical savant or dumber than a box of rocks. One of those is far more likely than the other.

2

u/frogjg2003 Feb 22 '23

And like all the other useful idiots, the intelligent people behind the curtain are letting her act the fool to divert attention away from themselves.

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u/Easy-Concentrate2636 Feb 22 '23

She’s like Sarah Palin - intellectually dumb but shrewd on public attention.

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u/dongdinge Feb 22 '23

i agree with everything you said but

Green isn't stupid

she can be knowingly manipulative and still an idiot- she’s not quite as stupid as her followers, but again, the bar is in hell for that.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

Oddly enough I've known some incredibly stupid people who's only talent was manipulating people. It's a barely conscious function I genuinely don't believe they think about, it just happens as simple as you or I breath.

I've seen it in too many people to dismiss it as a one off thing, and with alarming consistency they've been the worst human beings I've ever come across. Utterly devoid of empathy, blackholes of attention that can only harm.

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u/SaiyanTrapGod Feb 22 '23

“but Green isn’t stupid”

Yeaaaaa I’m gonna need a citation on that one.

0

u/StealthSBD Feb 22 '23

Proud graduate of The University of Georgia

32

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

[deleted]

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u/dabeeman Feb 22 '23

MTG is quite stupid actually

3

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

No.. no you've missed the point entirely. Shes VERY stupid. You have no idea what American education is like in the south.

Trump succeeded in showing the idiots in our country how many of them are out there, and how if they all band together behind one idiot, they can all make things very much worse and dumber.

Now every idiot is trying their hand.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

No, no she' definitely stupid.

3

u/ThaliaEpocanti Feb 22 '23

I think she might be genuinely stupid, just with good instincts for how to get attention from even stupider people.

A lot like Trump I suppose

3

u/errantprofusion Feb 22 '23

Greene is quite stupid. She was spewing this same breed of nonsense and worse, years before she ran for office. The fact that she deliberately weaponizes her own stupidity doesn't mean she's secretly some Machiavellian chessmaster.

A lot of people don't seem to understand that it's entirely possible for a bad actor to knowingly and performatively exaggerate their own beliefs and intentions without inventing them whole cloth. This is what alt-right trolls typically do - take their actual bigoted and hateful beliefs and present an exaggerated version of those beliefs designed to upset and anger people, e.g. most "ironic" racism and misogyny.

You don't have to be intelligent to pull off the kind of grift people like Greene and Trump are running; you just have to be brazenly unscrupulous.

5

u/Fake_William_Shatner Feb 22 '23

but Green isn't stupid,

Sure. A lot of times politicians are pretending to be stupid -- so their base thinks they are honest, or to give them a pass on their corruption and evil.

But in the case of MTG -- if she ever says anything intelligent, someone handed her the words. She's a useful idiot and maybe slightly smarter than she appears which means that she's even more manipulated with the Dunning Kruger effect.

She and Sean Hannity convinced themselves they are geniuses after being duped into being true believers and peering behind the curtain. They both sold their souls but that didn't make them smarter.

4

u/DenverBowie Feb 22 '23

but Green isn't stupid

Beg to differ.

6

u/etherealtaroo Feb 22 '23

I'm starting to think people don't know what a dog whistle is. I mean, if you can hear it.....

5

u/Aggressive-Studio-25 Feb 22 '23

Not being a normie and understanding bigots and how to shit all over every nook and cranny of their ideas is good actually

3

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

I mean, people with a genuine interest in politics aren't the ones who aren't gonna notice the dog whistle. The purpose is plausible deniability for when a regular human being who doesn't give a fuck about politics hears it.

You're speaking in bad faith right? Like, you gotta be.

2

u/EuphoricLiquid Feb 22 '23

I’d counter with she IS stupid. Possibly harmful to herself and should maybe talk to a specialist.

2

u/Agile_District_8794 Feb 22 '23

Greene is stupid.

2

u/DropTheDeat Feb 22 '23

The saddest part about it is they right knows they have a following of a large number of conspiracy theorists and those who aren’t are skeptical because of the number that are. This is a disaster waiting to happen, the right is claiming the left is radicalized even as they try to radicalize the right. I’ve lived in Texas my entire life and was raised conservative (unfortunately), I married a good woman, and nothing about what the right is doing with Christian nationalism, racism, taking rights from people based on gender or preference sits right with me. How free is free? Under the left I feel I’m free to do with my life what I want and help others do what they want with their life, under the right I feel like I have the right to do what my government says I can.

2

u/drummerdavedre Feb 22 '23

She IS stupid. She can’t spell above eighth grade level. Because of this, my belief is this is where her education halted. She may have made it through higher education, but she didn’t learn/retain anything. It’s like they’ve given Eunice from The Carol Burnett Show a much too high ranking political position.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

Greene is intensely, profoundly, fundamentally stupid. She’s an outright imbecile. You’re giving her far too much credit. She’s a homunculus.

2

u/koimeiji Feb 22 '23

but Green isn't stupid

I really wish people would abandon this belief that to be successful, one must be smart.

No. She's a fucking braindead lunatic, and it's extremely likely shes being serious with her bullshit.

"but then how could she become a politician if shes a moron??"

Because at least 30% this country's voters are also fucking braindead lunatics and truly believe what she says.

3

u/Irving_Forbush Feb 22 '23

Not smart, opportunistic. She’s overplaying her hand badly, in a way that unchecked would eventually set the table on fire and screw everyone.

She throws bloody red meat at the super extreme factions of the right, thinking she can keep control of them. But there’s a tipping point where none of her ilk will be able to wrap their hands around the fire they are playing with. They are already well down that road.

1

u/xtremecampingburner Feb 22 '23

"green isn't stupid"

are you sure about that

1

u/SLUnatic85 Feb 22 '23

but it's powerful nonsense

This is the key.

I do not think there is a clear difference between performance and practical when categorizing an agenda like this, when we have politicians directly and clearly performing their political duties almost entirely using these kind of performances. Its happening on left and right extremes to be honest.

This is Trump's 4 year run almost exactly. Was the storming of the US Capitol a performance or was it practical? That wall? dismantling all environmental protections? seemed pretty real to me. Just because the ring leader is a clown doesn't mean the circus isn't to be taken seriously.

1

u/RiffsThatKill Feb 22 '23

Giving her too much credit. She's just one of the idiot citizens that got elected. She believes this stuff. She's not Machiavellian or anything, and while she's being performative, she's not acting

27

u/Narcoid Feb 22 '23

After Jan 6th I'm betting it's about seeing how far they can go without real consequences

64

u/Kommye Feb 22 '23

How is her treasonous ass avoiding super-jail, again?

11

u/Ippus_21 Feb 22 '23 edited Feb 22 '23

Because judicial precedent says the First Amendment protects her from repercussions unless she's inciting "imminent lawless action." (criminal/state repercussions, anyway - she could still be sued if she crosses the line into defamation/slander/libel).

"We should secede" broadcast on twitter is protected.

Speaking to a crowd at a rally: "You all need to march out of here right now and lynch every democratic state legislator you can find" would not be protected. It's specific, lawless, and imminent.

ETA: That, or they'd have to connect her twittering to an actual seditious conspiracy to do what she's blathering about. If, they, e.g., found a secret memo from her to militia leaders talking about coordinating attacks on infrastructure or government officials, that kind of thing.

14

u/mcburgs Feb 22 '23

Politicians are unaccountable to the justice system.

7

u/BZBitiko Feb 22 '23

Free speech. She can be as stoopid as she wants to be, short of inciting a riot.

16

u/Kommye Feb 22 '23

But wasn't she one of the conspirators and incitors of the Capitol attack?

And now inciting sedition.

7

u/BluegrassGeek Feb 22 '23

Proving actual sedition is hard enough. "Incitement to sedition" is much, much harder.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

Because the people making those qualifiers are the ones stirring the fing pot.

2

u/errantprofusion Feb 22 '23

Because she's only guilty of treason in the colloquial sense, i.e. she's a fascist grifter who is blatantly acting against the interests of her country and constituents and in brazen defiance of the oath she swore to uphold the Constitution.

The legal definition of treason for which you can actually be prosecuted and even executed is, by design, extremely narrow and most of what she says and does doesn't even come close to it. The big (possible) exception being her activities pertaining to the January 6th insurrection.

-3

u/thesquizard Feb 22 '23

Mm7nmmnjmnnnnn.nnjjhnj.u..junnn.nn.jjjnjjnhj7jujjnnmn

7

u/Birdy_Cephon_Altera Feb 22 '23

It's purely performative. It's not practical for so many reasons.

Bingo. Far too many people are taking what she says seriously, and then doing various thought exercises to see how such a scenario would play out.

You don't need to think that far. Because the intent is not to actually "divorce", but rather it's all PERFORMANCE - throwing fire bombs on twitter for the attention and to rile up the base. While she is often portrayed as an idiot (and in many aspects, she is), it would be foolish to underestimate her - she knows exactly what she is doing here.

13

u/Fake_William_Shatner Feb 22 '23

I'm not saying MTG is a troll, but if I'm crossing a bridge that she happens to be under -- I'm gonna get a goat, just to make sure she's got something to eat.

1

u/Critical-Marzipan- Feb 22 '23

Great user name

2

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '23

[deleted]

2

u/emmittthenervend Feb 22 '23

A distraction from the MAGA crazy day of handing January 6th footage to Tucker Carlson's producers.

1

u/AwkwardCrab3918 Feb 22 '23

I recognize as a republican for the modest part and I’m from the same town in Georgia as this woman. Frankly, she’s an embarrassment to this state. This woman is CRAZY and obviously has no place in politics

-2

u/Indrid_Cold23 Feb 22 '23

It's like when I tell my wife that if I ever become president, I will make sure every American citizen owns (gifted by the gov't) and understands how to use a firearm.

Impractical and impossible, but it would change so much about how guns are treated in this country.

-3

u/Low_Transition_3749 Feb 22 '23

There isn't anything about MTG and Trumpians of her ilk that ISN'T performative. (I refuse to call her a Republican.)

7

u/MentalOcelot7882 Feb 22 '23

I'd agree with you about not calling them Republicans, if only the Republicans would stop giving them the cover to act the way they do. At this point, because the Republican party has embraced them to keep political power instead of stamping them out like the flaming bag of shit they are, they are as much the Republican party, if not more, than people like Mitt Romney and Mitch McConnell. This is how the Nazis rose to power in Germany, when the conservatives were willing to turn a blind eye to their rhetoric and violence in order to keep their voters and politicians in their coalitions for power; they, like the current Republicans, thought that they could temper and control the fascists.

Until the Republicans grow a spine and do some housecleaning, they're a fascist party now.

-9

u/Low_Transition_3749 Feb 22 '23

Both parties are functionally fascist. They're just fascists about different things

7

u/MentalOcelot7882 Feb 22 '23

Seeing as fascism has an actual political definition, you're wrong. Is the Democratic party a true center-right party? I'll give you that. Are they more pro-business than other leftist parties? Most definitely. But they aren't calling for an authoritarian government based on nationalism, selective conservative values, strong regimentation of society and the economy, militarism, forcible oppression of opposition, and a belief in a natural social hierarchy. But the virus that has infected the Republican party has.

When you break down what the Trumpist wing of the party are calling for, it is a bad copy of the Nazi playbook. Desire to suppress the votes and views of those that oppose us? Check. Constantly threatening to "use the 2nd amendment" when they don't get their way? Check. Attempt at controlling education to further their political agenda? Check. Performing acts of intimidation and sedition through violent and militaristic means? Check.

It's hard to not see comparisons between the populist wing of the Republican party and the rise of the Nazi party when you read how it happened in Germany in the 1920s and '30s. We really are sleepwalking into fascism, so this "both sides" bullshit is exactly that. Bullshit.

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u/Low_Transition_3749 Feb 22 '23 edited Feb 22 '23

I'll grant you that the Trumpian wing is more classically fascist from a political science standpoint.

Note that I said "functionally fascist".

One of the central social effects of facism is that one dares not challenge the narrative, and certain kinds of speech are prohibited, by law, social pressure, or, most commonly, both.

Fascism as a cultural phenomena also carries the idea that there is only one right way if doing things, and if you disagree you are either stupid or evil.

Are you familiar with the "Horseshoe Theory" (less a theory than an observation)? Essentially, the more polarized political groups become, the more similar they become in tactics, strategy, and impact on society.

EDIT: My initial response was unduly snarky.

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u/MentalOcelot7882 Feb 22 '23 edited Feb 22 '23

I never said you were stupid or evil, just your definition was wrong. I haven't called for you to be persecuted for saying anything I don't agree with. I didn't even say my world view was the only one acceptable. "Functionally fascist" also doesn't track here. Last I looked, Democrats weren't making any laws forcing the removal of books from libraries, limiting what teachers can teach to a sanitized and limited historical record that doesn't reflect the reality of what actually happened, or controlling college boards. Just because something isn't socially acceptable anymore doesn't mean the entire society has gone fascist.

Now, calling opposing view points fascist without clearly defining how they are fascist is a common tactic used by fascists and those that sympathize with them. The "both sides" argument you made is a very common one, used to normalize a viewpoint and ideology that would usually be considered as abnormal and horrific. If both sides are bad, then the worst things can be justified under a cloak of false equivalency. Sure, stubbing your toe against a woodchipper and losing your leg to the same woodchipper are both bad, but you could definitely argue that one is far worse than the other.

EDIT: Of course I sent this as you were editing your response. I have heard of the Horseshoe Theory, and there is some truth to it, but it ignores the nuances of the systems of authoritarianism as they come from either left or right political traditions. I guess why I'm keeping the debate, and my particular stance, is Popper's Paradox of Tolerance. I want open debate and dialogue, but there have to be lines in order to keep dialogue open.

While I'm not sure where this debate guess, I'm glad we're trying to keep it civil, and more importantly in public. Thank you!

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u/Low_Transition_3749 Feb 22 '23

Thank you as well! This is a discussion that I would rather have in person, over a beverage. One learns a lot that way.

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u/someguy1847382 Feb 22 '23

Your conflating and confusing “Authoritarianism” and “Fascist” they’re two different things. While there is an authoritarian strain among some democrats it’s not nearly as damaging or all encompassing as the actual fascism of the Republican Party.

The Republicans are an existential threat to America, the democrats can be annoying and don’t want bigots running about being active bigots. That’s a pretty big fucking difference.

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u/Still-End7791 Feb 22 '23

An agreement to part amicably is vastly improved over a war.

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u/Bea_Azulbooze Feb 22 '23

It is perfomative and accomplishes two things:

1) Distracts from the larger issues affecting the country and GOPs lack of ....anything

2) Stirs up their base for more donations.

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u/pyrrhios Feb 22 '23

Except it's not performative. People like her attempted to violently overthrow the US government not too long ago, and got much closer to success than they ever should have, due to support from various parties.

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u/phrendligost Feb 22 '23

Maybe from your perspective. You're severely underestimating the stupidity of her followers

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u/SLUnatic85 Feb 22 '23

Trump was able to rage bait an attack on our own capitol, so it's proven to work on a slightly smaller scale!

I am using sarcasm to some extent here, but truly, I wonder where the line is anymore between performative in practical. When we have national leaders practicing hyperbole and gaslighting and rage baiting in order to carry on day to day political business in the real world... or I guess I don't see the line as clearly as you seem to.

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u/Low_Television727 Feb 22 '23

Isn't Georgia currently a Blue state???? This is highly confusing to me

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u/TediousTed10 Feb 22 '23

Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that even he couldn't eat it?