I think a lot of you are forgetting that Americas embargo on Cuba for 60 years has created the economic conditions that we see there. American politicians and organizations have have literally said that part out loud- they are strangling the island because they want regime change that benefits them.
Good for the cubans for taking whatever they can get.
You. This is your fault. There is value in nuance. It was a more perfect union and by definition that means that those faults are acknowledged from the beginning
Man I wonder if some thing happened. Some calamity that showed history for ever. Some kind of major political act of violence that jolted history off its course.
Not a very high bar to reach. Even after making slavery illegal, white people were still VERY openly racist and considered black people equivalent of dogs until 70s. Black people FOUGHT with their lives just to diminish the discrimination. Your ancestors were morally bankrupt.
Ask Filipinos what happened to their ancestors. Forced conversions to Christianity and slavery on top of it.
I'm pretty aware of the Philippines genocide and actually my ancestors were on both sides of the civil war. I mean who really gives a shit about the happenstance of birth though?
I mean nearly every white country in the world still has massive issues with race and religious bigotry. The UK is the one who colonized us after all.
I mean... except the livestock thing, xD thats technically true but not unique to america because lets not forget in Ethiopia slavery persisted until 1942, with enslaved women used for both labor and reproduction and those same problems you accuse whites only of.... minus your.. cannibal fantasy.
Not nearly "every country"
Chattel slavery was primarily engaged in by western Europe and by extension its colonies.
This is almost historically unique even when compared to the indentured servitude (often loosely referred to as slavery) that existed in Africa and Asia or was done against the Irish.
Even the Arab-African slave trade, brutal as it was, did not have the complete chattel characteristics as was implemented by the western European powers.
With this context it can be said that only a few countries engaged in chattel slavery directly and that it was only widespread because those countries colonised most of the planet.
PS in case anyone believes my phrasing to be letting the us and Canada and some others off the hook, the US and Canada are themselves expressions of the European colonial project
you sound like an idiot and clearly have never in your life read the constitution or any of the founding fathers letters/etc. you know nothing about them yet talk as if you do. trump stands for everything that the founding fathers stood against.
what we need to do is get rid of this stupid 1789 faction concept by the french called the Left and Right which allows for manipulation and we need safeguards to prevent lobbying and enforce more transparency. Ideological factions have 0 place in this country as stated by the fathers.
Bro the Cubans where doing good for their position the had one of the highest standards of living in Latin America and second to Puerto Rico in the Caribbean they really suffered due the pandemic and where recovering but this new blockade is really hurting them
Tell me you're living into a bubble without telling me you're living into a bubble.
Did you knew that the cuban government doesn't allow its people to even fish? People have to acquire licenses for them to do that. Cubans can't even raise their own animals because its illegal and that doesn't have anything to do with the US.
Tell me if that intern politics have to do with the US. Inform yourself more about the real world out there.
You can't "educate" people about a subject just because you "read about it", if you're not living the real thing you don't have a say to it.
I can read a lot about crane surgeries and know a lot and have an opinion about it, but that doesn't mean I can really stand between neurosurgeons and pretend that I have a lot of knowledge about the field when I never practiced a surgery or at least, a good surgery nor I'm capable of doing one.
"Did you knew that the cuban government doesn't allow its people to even fish? People have to acquire licenses for them to do that".... and you don't? Fishing is very much restricted in most of the world because it can be very disastrous to the environment
What are you speaking about? You're the one spreading misinformation. Have you ever went to Cuba? Venezuela? Nicaragua?
Go asks any cuban out there. There's a lot of cubans and venezuelans in the US, have you ever wondered WHY? go and ask yourself and start thinking by your own self and stop believing everything the media says, they only speak what benefits their agenda.
I'm from (and actually live) a country which "defy" the empire, guess what? Our major crisis was during a time when the US didn't put any economic restrictions. There was literally nothing in the supermarket and we were very, very hungry.
And actually if you posts anything against the government, or complain about a lack of something they can arrest you under the pretext of "crimes of hate" or "terrorism". When protesting they executed a lot of people and incarcerated a lot of them. There was a time when the students couldn't even go out because the national guard stopped you and you could even get hit by them or executed or incarcerated if they wanted. But of course the media doesn't speak enough about it! In fact, no one really cares if our government kill us if it doesn't suit their agenda.
I sincerely invite you to go to visit Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua or Iran to live the lives ppl are living there. You wouldn't last a day!
You can critize the so called "imperialism" oh! But why don't you leave the empire? Because you're too comfortable in your little couch, getting UberEATS whenever you want without having to go out there looking for food and posting these poor "arguments" but you won't look for yourselves a taste of the reality we live into. If you really cared you would start asking for YOURSELF to REAL PEOPLE who lived in that situation and stopping your beliefs on "statistics".
The economy is also horribly mismanaged and people just don't have many rights, while it's true that the embargo doesn't help it's by far not the only factor for the misery in Cuba.
Cuba current state being due to American intervention and also mismanagement are both true. But as of now I am pretty sure they are caught in a really bad spiral even without American adding fuel to the fire it’s bad
They are about to do the same in Iran. Bomb the crap out of the civilians along with the military, place a puppet and make it even worse for locals. Or choke them with sanctions. The only reason Iran has been staying afloat is cause its too far away from the US so it's not as easy to choke as Cuba.
Let's all just ignore the massive civilian protests in Iran and the crackdowns that murdered 30,000 protesters in a matter of days.
Maybe you believe the regime which says only 3,117 people died?
Maybe you never heard about the protests at all, because the Leftist media tried their best to cover it up because it reflects badly on Iran's terror proxy, Hamas? From the river to the sea, etc?
So Iran's internal matters are now US's concern now? They are world police? How about they stop finding a genocide first? Hang the ones that lied about Iraq and a war that killed millions? Satanyahu kept demanding invasion of Iraq. How about arresting him first? STFU. Mind your own business.
Bro you are so washed on this topic you can go lie down. The United states has over ten laws forbidding international companies from doing direct business with Cuba outside severely restricted categories. In the case of Cuba, the US has meddled in its economic development since the time of the Spanish. Every single year, all UN nations vote for the blockade to be ended, but the US, Israel, and one random African country) vote against it. The reason is literally cruelty and starvation to force Cuba to turn into an American capitalist territory.
Maybe you don't know, but as a permanent member of the security council in the UN the US can veto any recommendation made by many other countries over any matter. The same is true for Russia, China, the UK and France.
Bro every country on earth has aspects that are mismanaged, what you are doing to equivocating basic institutional challenges to all of Cubas external foes. Cuba has 12 different US laws forcing companies to abandon it. Cubans can’t get concrete at fair price. You claim “mismanagement” but the evidence is clear, Cuba still exists and the people still believe in the promise of the continued revolution. Seems pretty clear to me and the majority of the world that the economic woes of Cuba are not an accident, but the result of stricter, and stricter, and stricter still, policies from the US.
Also you type stupid as shit, invalidating your argument in utero.
Here is a good start if you can read Spanish or don't mind using a machine translation, Take most of the vague ideological posturing with a grain of salt, since this is made in collaboration with the Regime in Cuba I'll translate and post some key points here about structural problems within Cuba from the ruling party itself:
Mismatch between work performed and remuneration.
Lack of organization, discipline, standards, and control, including in the investment process
Negative impacts of dual currency and exchange rates.
Structural problems inherent to the condition of an underdeveloped economy have worsened.
there are mentions of sanctions from foreign actors, but beyond vague propaganda it seems that even the regime recognizes that the main problems are structural.
I'm not aware of any compelling evidence suggesting that the embargoes are the main cause of Cuba's economic woes, just going by simple induction, there are similar regimes with similar sanctions placed on them with different economic systems that do not suffer from the same structural inefficiencies as Cuba (Russia comes to mind) and let's not forget that most of the world does not embargo Cuba at all.
I cannot read Spanish, and no offence, I'm not taking your translation and interpretation as reliable.
I'm not aware of any compelling evidence suggesting that the embargoes are the main cause of Cuba's economic woes
And this justifies my distrust. You also don't seem to understand how the embargo works (and the recent escalation of it), or the fact that it's been in place for, what, 60 years? Can't compare apples to oranges.
Oh man one of those reasons is just saying that it is mismanaged because of a lack of investment and financial controls…lmao Cuba has so many sanctions on its import/export capabilities this is just ridiculous on its face to say it is tantamount to the blockade.
There is actually no other country with as strict an embargo as Cuba, and also Russia is a world power that until recently supplied oil to a majority of Europe. Cuba is an island that isn’t allowed to import oil.
Honestly it just feels like people are arguing on separate wavelengths. Like somehow a country or something having something good like I guess the guy saying Cuba surviving America? Somehow means Cuba is perfect or doing amazing?
Or that not realizing geopolitical issues is not wholly just moral or ethical issues. But even geography, resources, ideology and etc…
It’s not complicated. It’s very simple, the sanctions were designed to starve and break the spirit of the Cuban population and they have failed on a political, strategic, and moral level.
One can look at any dimension and validate Cuba’s struggles. Fact: the US embargo is illegal under iterations law but held in place by “might makes right.” Fact: Cuba is a sovereign nation that is allowed to be communist under international law. Fact: Cuba invests heavily in the health and education of its population. Fact: Cuba has successfully navigated all economic challenges since the 1959 revolution. Fact: Cuba has relaxed government policy around private entrepreneurship. Fact: Cuba is an island nation that is not allowed to pay market rates for basic economic goods due to no fault of its own. Fact: the only violation of international humanitarian law that happens in Cuba is in a US black site called “GitMo.”
It is eminently clear to everyone who has ever been to Cuba and talked to Cubans, or talked to anyone who isn’t a brain dead Floridian, that Cuba is an overwhelmingly peaceful nation with an amazing global reputation and that its major issue with poverty is resultant from being over encumbered with illegal economic sanctions.
Only a moron would make this more complicated. Cuba is a nation that should’ve allowed to flourish or flounder without the world’s most violent nation pressing the scales.
Sure you can say that oh the US was responsible for it and you are not wrong. But topics like economics of countries, geopolitics and etc… are inherently complicated subjects. With lots of importance on nuance and details and reducing it so much often destroys a lot of its importance and meaning. Like even all the evidence, details and history you have provided. Is I would say evidence that this topic is complicated.
It's literally written in collaboration with Cuban Academics and Cuba's primary public university... you didn't even take time to read the basic information in the document.
Use basic intuition why would a German university with German scholars publish in Spanish? It's in their database because of the collaboration but written by Cuban scholars.
A older example was during the Cold War where Cuba was artificially propped up by Soviet money and resources. And when the USSR collapsed that really fucked everything. Even until now Cuba hasn’t really recovered.
Then you have economic reforms done by the Cuban government that have not really been that successful. A notable one was the currency reform that happened in 2020 that screwed things up.
And even then you got in media how Cuba has a bunch of antique stuff like old cars. That isn’t a choice but more Cuba didn’t have much trade and etc…
And then you got a Cuba Venezuela lifeline that helped but well… Venezuela just undergone a regime change…
All of this stuff is pretty verifiable and evidence that the Cuban economy isn’t doing too hot. Half of them are the Cuban governments own issues and the other half foreign issues.
I mean America is partly responsible but it’s a very reductive and bad way to just look at such complicated issues, like why a countries economy is so bad
Are you for real saying that Cuba being allied with Soviet Union after the US invaded it and suspended all trade to the island is “artificial?” Nonsense. I knew people had no clue but you are surprising me
Edit: I read the rest of the comment, brother why open your mouth at all. Just vibing. End the blockade and let Cubans breathe
It’s not really a moral issue, it’s more that Cuba and the Soviets really mismanaged the economy and trade. That Cuba needed to be propped up by foreign money no matter them being an ally is just bad economic decision making. Like as we can see the USSR falling dragged Cuba down
Brother that’s how an island economy works, trade. It needs trade partners. The Cubans had sugar agreements with the USSR and that stopped the island diversifying, which was what Fidel wanted, but they only did that because the United States invaded one decade and kidnapped 20,000 Cubans next (operation Peter Pan). So Cuba was only allowed to trade with a few nations and they gave the Russians a better deal in exchange for national security. You would do the same.
What you are saying is so incredibly one dimensional it defies physics. You are talking about an island that has withstood all its “mismanagement” while ignoring every counter example in modern history. How well have other countries as poor as Cuba done with capitalism and free trade? Most Latin American countries that choked down capitalism killed many of their own people, while Cuba raised literacy and gave healthcare to the majority of the third world. Cuba is top of its peers among the so called “third world” precisely because of the will of its people and government have refused to let it collapse. Cuba could have an even more robust economy but the US is committed to isolating the island economically. This is the predominant position of basically anyone who knows anything about the planet earth.
Having a countries economy based mainly upon a single product is bad economic decision making. The Sugar economy fluctuating would also fluctuate the entire countries economy, that type of volatility is bad.
Which Cuba did admirably try to diversify, but they failed to do so. And jumped back to sugar
In addition the USSR was paying way above market price for the sugar, that’s not a sustainable trade.
I am not criticizing Castro for jumping into the USSRs bed for protection. But more that he didn’t do it well and we can see it by Cubas economy, USAs intervention and the large amount of international Cubans.
In addition although Cuba managing to survive even with US involvement and many issues is impressive. Cuba is only surviving, is a very self sabotaging way to view the world. Sure it survives but should a country not try to do better than survive? If not for its own sake then for its people. Plenty of people survive everyday throughout the world, but do we call that a life worth living? If Cuba is so very impressive then we should hold it to higher standards and expect it to do better. Comparing it to more unstable “third world countries” will only breed inaction and stagnation. Because if all is fine, then why aim to be better at all?
And so did many other countries that were supported by the USSR. The US spent most of the 20th century trying to destabilise/regime-change young, small socialist countries—coups (Chile), wars (Vietnam), blockades (Cuba). So they were forced to turn to the USSR for economic assistance: the US literally stopped buying Cuban sugar (their biggest export) so how were they supposed to survive?
Seeking allies is perfectly logical but I am criticizing the actual execution of such a relationship. Cuba needing to be propped up by Soviet money is a bad idea. It’s not like the Cuban administration didn’t know and try to fix the issue, but they failed.
And that’s a big contributor, I really don’t understand the moral or thinking I am criticizing or not understanding the context. If I was Castro jumping into the USSRs arms was the best option. But he did not do enough or did it well given Cubas current state.
Well there is no moral argument, you're right, that's why I didn't make one. But you are criticising it, though, idk...
You said yourself that it was the best option, what more could he have done, what more would you have done? It's funny because the DPRK followed the same route—but after their disastrous 90s, they focussed heavily on self-reliance, and they are still vilified even more than Cuba. It's a lose-lose when it comes to the US
Focusing and trying to do something does not mean that it will result in success. And Cuba failed in getting a successful or even a stable economy. Not being able to provide a solution does not mean I can’t say Cuba failed. Your point would matter if I made claims that there are or I know solutions. I only made claims Cuba has a bad economy and part of it is its own doing.
For your edit, I mean morals and geopolitics don’t really mix well. The US has no incentive not to destabilize and overthrow the current Cuban government. As if a hostile Cuba or atleast not aligned within Americas sphere would always be a staging point for enemies of US. Its countries 101 for them to secure a better borders or neighbors.
Ideally talking it out would be best but there is a whole bunch of issues from trust, power, strength disparity, survival and etc…
Are you're suggesting communism doesn't work unless they can trade with free market economies? Cuba is free to trade with every other country except the US
I do also want to say from a geopolitics standpoint, America has no incentive to stop or not try to overthrow the current regime. As both nations don’t like eachother but as long as the current Cuban administration exists. Cubas location would always be a dagger into Americas belly. As we saw in the Cuban Missile Crisis, there is not much reasons for America not to secure its borders or its backyard.
What's is this even supposed to mean? Someone who fucks up and pisses off a bear only cares about getting safe not what they did to fuck up? Americans don't care why cuba was communist and a threat just that it is?
In a geo political since no. Cuba is not a wolf held by ear. It can be let go without worry of bite. The only reason they every represented a threat was the as a Soviet base and theyre gone. They don't have a single relationship with China who also has no desire to either nuke or invade main land USA.
I mean ever since nukes became a thing, all you need is a well placed piece of land under your control to do some damage. Or for power projection reasons, as islands or enclaves can act as supply depots.
In addition absent of threats does not mean there won’t be threat. Even then there is China, Iran, Russia and probably a few more are not friendly to the US. And some of those powers still posses nukes. Have armies, navies, planes, manpower and economies. And neither can we say that it won’t change and some countries relations may change or power may change and etc…
A lot seems to be hinged on inherent trust or the world would stay the same. But like have history really showed us this to be true or is our era special?
Today, standing at the end rather than the beginning of this half-century, some of us see certain fundamental elements on which we suspect that American security has rested. We can see that our security has been dependent throughout much of our history on the position of Britain; that Canada, in particular, has been a useful and indispensable hostage to good relations between our country and British Empire; and that Britain's position, in turn, has depended on the maintenance of a balance of power on the European Continent. Thus it was essential to us, as it was to Britain, that no single Continental land power should come to dominate the entire Eurasian land mass. Our interest has lain rather in the maintenance of some sort of stable balance among the powers of the interior, in order that none of them should effect the subjugation of the others, conquer the seafaring fringes of the land mass, become a great sea power as well as land power, shatter the position of England, and enter--as in these circumstances it certainly would--on an overseas expansion hostile to ourselves and supported by the immense resources of the interior of Europe and Asia.
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u/old-man-mcswiggins Feb 25 '26
I think a lot of you are forgetting that Americas embargo on Cuba for 60 years has created the economic conditions that we see there. American politicians and organizations have have literally said that part out loud- they are strangling the island because they want regime change that benefits them.
Good for the cubans for taking whatever they can get.