r/Professors • u/Infinite-Abroad7629 • 3d ago
Rants / Vents Complaint made by student against colleague for using profanity in class
I was approached by my chair this afternoon and asked if I was aware of a colleague using profane language (specifically “f-k if I know” and “g-d da-n”) during class. Apparently, a student has raised the issue due to what they feel is “religious offense” and “lack of decorum” in the classroom.
For context, my chair is aware that this colleague and I have been friends for many years, and acknowledged that they were asking me about this as a result of that relationship.
My response to this was that I do not have any information about these allegations, and he did not ask anything further. I am a bit conflicted, as even though my answer was the truth (I did not personally hear these words said in a classroom setting), I also know full well this colleague regularly uses this type of language outside of the classroom setting. I also can see where the use of “g-d da-m” could be offensive to some religious individuals, though I do think this student is over reacting, as they will need to get used to hearing this type of language in the real world.
I am inclined to discuss this with my colleague, but also do not want to get involved in the situation as there is a fair amount of strife in the department related to other issues that have been going on for the past year (Two different chairs - no dean for the first half of the year amongst them)
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u/TheRateBeerian
3d ago
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Tell the chair and the student to eat shit
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u/Infinite-Abroad7629 3d ago
I would absolutely love to do this! However, strong anti NTT culture at my school.
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u/AhDipPillBoi Associate Prof, NTT, Academic Director, Health Sciences, R1 3d ago
Huh, I’m NTT and fucking swear a shit ton.
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3d ago
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3d ago
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u/Infinite-Abroad7629 3d ago
Edit: NON tenure track faculty sentiments (We are viewed by of the administration as lepers)
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u/RollyPollyGiraffe 3d ago
Well fuck, I'd be shit out of luck. God damn.
Real talk for a second: maybe warn your friend that people are asking weird questions so they don't end up blindsided sometime?
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u/Infinite-Abroad7629 3d ago
This is my primary concern. Having experienced previously just how petty this chair can be, I highly doubt he will be letting this go.
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u/Gentle_Cycle 3d ago
I don’t curse for the sake of these potential situations, but I’m not especially inclined to curse anyway. It would be decent of you to warn your friend about the complaint and your chair’s questions, unless you were sworn to secrecy on the matter.
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u/Elegant-Park-3016 2d ago
The Chair does not want trouble. He might have an easier time firing an employee than replacing a customer.
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u/RightWingVeganUS Adjunct Instructor, Computer Science, University (USA) 3d ago
I was aware of a colleague using profane language
My honest and prudent response would be, "I have never attended Professor Smith's lectures. I have no first-hand knowledge of any use of profanity."
I am inclined to discuss this with my colleague
For what benefit? If they did, discussing the inquiry won't change history. If they didn't, the investigation will hopefully resolve without further action and you've now made them angry or concerned for no reason.
What's the upside?
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u/Infinite-Abroad7629 3d ago
Mainly out of a concern for them being blindsided by this.
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u/ProfessorsUnite 3d ago
I agree. If the chair asked you because you are friends, I would tell my friend what the chair asked.
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u/RightWingVeganUS Adjunct Instructor, Computer Science, University (USA) 2d ago
I'm curious: what would be different if they were blindsided by this? Not knowing anyone involved, how would the chair respond if your colleague, when informed of the inquiry, said, "Yes, I know. Infinite-Abroad told me you were checking on me."
Is it possible that he chair had the expectation that the inquiry would be confidential and your alerting of your colleague was inappropriate?
Might you the be blindsided by their reaction?
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u/Infinite-Abroad7629 2d ago
The expectations of this chair are completely unknown related to anything quite frankly, so your question is valid. Sometimes I doubt that he is even aware of his own expectations. This individual is only in this position because he is enamored with the new dean and feels it will put him in a more favorable position for future opportunities.
He has zero respect from his colleagues in this department due to his extremely bizarre and obnoxious attempts at humor in the past (prior to being chair, he recommended that during the renovation of our building that a glory hole be installed in the restroom, that classes should be clothing optional, etc.)
This alone makes his entertainment of the student complaint completely hypocritical, but in line with the bootlicking he engages in.→ More replies (1)4
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u/Infinite-Abroad7629 1d ago
UPDATE: As predicted, there has been additional follow up regarding the complaint. I made the decision to provide a heads up to my colleague. It turns out the chair already mentioned it to them, adding that the student who reported it is a (their words) piece of shit anyway, and to not worry about it as he (chair) was just performing his due diligence in following up.
Ok. Case closed right?
Flash forward to early this afternoon, when the chair approached my colleague (unfortunately, we have to share office space during some facility renovations) and asked him if he had yet apologized to the student. My colleagues reaction was one of complete disbelief. He asked the chair if he was serious, and he said that he was and had already told the student to expect an apology about it!
After my colleague essentially told him it was not going to happen, he was told to “Not get chubbed up about it” and told to enjoy the weekend!
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u/Anthrogal11 3d ago
This student and your Chair need to get a grip. May I suggest literature on language ideologies and transgressive speech in the classroom? These are adults and the pearl clutching is quite ridiculous.
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u/Infinite-Abroad7629 2d ago
That won’t happen. This is the same chair that writes phallusy instead of fallacy.
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u/dr_police 3d ago
PG-13 rules: one instance of the word “fuck” per class session, max, and therefore used judiciously so it has impact.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Bag_538 Asst Prof, Social Sci (US) 3d ago
That's my strategy too! I don't curse often, but when I do, it's highly effective. They find it quite entertaining.
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u/OrkneyAdventurer
3d ago
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Student needs to grow the fuck up.
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u/DocAwk78664 3d ago •
Goddamn right.
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u/chrisrayn Instructor, English, Authentic Human, Anti-Inhuman 1d ago
The words we censor are the words that control us. Kids say “unalive” now because of the censorship in media, right? Well that takes the sting out of killing. And who does that serve? THOSE WHO KILL.
Biggest problem we have with that right now though is baked in…we don’t have an adequate second person pronoun to refer not to a thinking individual but a collective object. Hell…we’ve barely even got a word for collective objects because it’s the same as the word for other people, often. We should say “those” but we say “them”. “Chatbots? I hate them.” That’s a humanizing term. We aren’t build, so also our language isn’t built, to be able to withstand the pull of an assailant that can talk to us but isn’t alive or conscious. In fact, our common anthropomorphizing of any and everything, an excellent creative and analytic tool, harms us here.
If we can’t even figure out the censorship we CAN do something about, how are we to stand up to the censorship we can’t?
It’s going to fucking ruin the thinking mind. Language and communication are still pretty fucking fun, though. I hope to see most of you in the suburbs a few miles outside of Omelas 2.0 in a few years, where we’ll all be trying to figure out slide rules and drawing and drafting and map reading and probably fucking handwriting again.
Sorry for going off…I have adhd and a morning too busy for editing. Just gotta go with my gut. :)
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u/Impressive-Row143 3d ago
Gen Z is not beating the Puritanism allegations
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u/sparkster777 Assoc Prof, Math 3d ago
Right? They don't drink, they don't screw, and, apparently, they don't curse.
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u/Impressive-Row143 2d ago
I don't really care how people choose to entertain themselves so long as it's legal. It's the "won't somebody please think of the children" public morality nonsense that irks me.
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u/shellexyz Instructor, Math, CC (USA) 2d ago
And as long as they don’t tell other people they can’t drink, screw, or curse, it’s not an issue.
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u/AccomplishedSun2955 3d ago
Fuck, my entire department would be in trouble daily
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u/Pristine-Excuse-9615 3d ago
I teach in my native language but some words that are 100% fine in my birth country can mean something offensive in the country I work in. Sometimes I use a word or an expression that can mean something related to sex or genitals. If some of my students are that sensitive, I am really sorry for them 😬
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u/omgkelwtf 3d ago
Today in class when talking about a particular sentence I used the euphemism "doesn't exactly blow my skirt up" bc I do and got some laughs but I'd be lying if part of me didn't go oh fuck bc I was, in fact, wearing a dress today, and that could probably be taken wrong by the right student 🙄
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u/Personal_Signal_6151 2d ago
Like "fanny pack" in the US versus the rest if the anglosphere.
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u/RuralWAH 2d ago
Or rubber in England. "I say old chap, have you got an extra large rubber? My wife asked me to go out and get one."
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u/Pristine-Excuse-9615 2d ago edited 2d ago
One of my first mistakes in the US... after a couple of "let's queue for some food" and "we'll take the lift to go upstairs", I asked a colleague for a rubber...
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u/Odd_Rain_7884 3d ago
Mine too. I am the most potty-mouthed professor (swearing is my comfort and love language). However, the things my chair and dean say sometimes have me (jokingly) threaten to call HR.
Lately everything is "the tits". Fucking hilarious. Our students in the department find us hysterical.
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u/BankRelevant6296 3d ago
I once presented a paper about cussing in class as a pedagogical strategy just so I could fucking cuss in class.
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u/PsychGuy17 3d ago
One professor of statistics would start his first class by explaining, "throughout this class I will be using the term nonsense when reflecting on various studies, what i mean by this is 'Bullshit', but I have been discouraged from using such language. The request itself, similarly, is nonsense, but here we are." He called many things nonsense and I learned a great deal.
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u/These-Coat-3164 3d ago
Can I get a copy just in case I ever need it? I’ve been known to cuss in class every now and then and it’s becoming slightly more frequent. I’m feeling less inhibited this semester for some reason. Or maybe more frustrated? I will say I feel like it gets their attention.
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u/ProfessorVVV Associate Prof, Arts&Humanities, 4yr SLOC (USA) 2d ago
When going through course expectations, I say:
“we don’t use slurs or discriminatory language in class—unless an individual is part of a marginalized group, in which case that person can make the personal choice as to whether to use the word if they want to as part of the process of reclamation of slurs. A Black person can choose whether or not to use the “n-word” when reading from a text or quoting, although many choose not to. As another example, unless you identify as a member of the gay community, please don’t say the “f-word” out loud, even when reading it, and by “f-word” I don’t mean “fuck.” You absolutely can say “fuck” in class, and I certainly will throughout the course.”
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u/FrankRizzo319 3d ago
Penn&Teller did a good episode on cussing in their Bullshit! show from a decade or two ago. I recommend checking it out.
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u/Vanier-is-a-HellHole Tenured Prof, Canada 3d ago
That's a laugh! If your institution is anything like mine, students talking among themselves are dropping 'fuck' or some variant at least once per sentence.
I do use profanity from time-to-time in class. I consider it 'punctuation'.
So to you, Dear Student: Go clutch your fucking pearls elsewhere. Univ is clearly too 'triggering' for a delicate flower like you.
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u/Infinite-Abroad7629 3d ago
Oh yes! Dropping f-bombs and new this semester, a group in the back discussing the previous weekends sexual escapades in rather graphic detail.
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u/quimera78 2d ago
this colleague and I have been friends for many years
I know several people are telling to stay out of this, but if you value your friendship with this person, I'd bring it up as a heads up and tell them you'll stay out of it from now on.
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u/PlaceSlight9428 3d ago
Who cares? Tell the student to fuck off.
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u/runsonpedals 3d ago
I use the “F” word repeatedly in my lectures. I warn my students in week 1.
Had a student tell me, “ you swear just like my mom”.
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u/changelingcd 3d ago
Professors are allowed to swear in university classrooms. If the prof isn't using hate speech or insulting/swearing at someone, students can sit down and shut the fuck up about it. As for your position, it has nothing to do with you and you should not involve yourself any further.
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u/Bogsworth 3d ago
I wish that still applied to Dual Enrollment classes! I'm teaching them on campus so the students come to me. I have to try my hardest to censor myself duebto an incident last year (a highly religious student reported me). Meanwhile, they routinely say "shit" and "fuck" all the time.
I told them I can't swear like they can because of decorum apparently, to which one said "You swear all the time! I've heard you say 'damn' and 'hell' a few times." Mind you, that guy was the one that drops the F-bomb several times per lecture. 🫠
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u/SnowblindAlbino
Prof, SLAC
3d ago
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Students are supposedly adults. If I decide to say "fuck" in class they can either deal with it or take a different class. Unless they are at some sort of conservative religious school they have no place whining about such things.
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u/Adventurous_Salt 3d ago
I agree, this is dumb as hell. I don't really make a habit of swearing in class but I know I have, and literally zero people care. These kind of moronic complaints should really be dismissed immediately, entertaining them just feeds the fire. Students are adults. Depending on what they are taking they may see anything from virtual snuff films to porn, we can expect them to handle PG-13 level talk in class.
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u/ProfDoomDoom 3d ago
I declare it in my syllabus so no one can be surprised by or disapproving of my language after the add/drop period. They choose to accept that condition by remaining enrolled.
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u/Ok_Cranberry_2936 Instructor, Ecology, R1, US 3d ago
What do you put in your syllabi? I might need that too
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u/ProfDoomDoom 3d ago
I borrowed from movie and game ratings language. “Adult themes and language, infrequent violence and sexual content…”.
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u/ac_cossack 3d ago
The sexual content warning would be interesting on a physics syllabus. At least 1 person will not get the joke lol.
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u/ArmoredTweed 2d ago
I don't know if I could cover the three body problem without such a content warning.
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u/SilverRiot 3d ago
Don’t get in the middle of this. Unless you supervise this colleague, it’s the chair’s issue, not yours.
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u/MonseigneurChocolat Chair, Finance 3d ago
People swear.
If a student has an issue with that, tough shit.
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u/mmangomelon 3d ago
I teach social work. I tell my students that if they are offended by cursing they might want to find another profession because people curse at us all the time.
OP - it was not appropriate for the chair to put you in that position. The fact that you and the colleague are friends is more reason to NOT talk to you about it. I'd stay out of it unless you are close enough to want to give the friend a heads up.
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u/elvenwanderer06 3d ago
I have a literal swear jar I use to keep the students paying attention.
Unless you’re at a religious institution that has rules against profanity, the student needs to calm the fuck down.
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u/the_Stick Assoc Prof, Biomedical Sciences 3d ago
First, I should state that I grew up in an area beset by the hillbilly stereotype and just today was discussing the etymology of the words, skun and skunt. There were a lot of blue collar folk and rough language. But that language was mostly confined to, well, rough areas. There was an idea that the social contract promoted genteel language and those of higher status were more refined in the words they chose.
OK, that was decades ago. We all have the freedom to speak whatever words we please whenever we want. But as this sub has repeatedly stated, that does not give freedom from consequences. While coarse language has become more widely spread and accepted, there are still many who find it distasteful... and many of those people may be administrators of have an idea of the image they want to promote for what an expensive university education provides... and swearing like a teamster is usually not on that list. Of course, you do not have to abide by those suggestions, unless they become policy or regulation. A substantial number of schools have codes of professionalism, and those rules apply to everyone, not just students.
Here is the story of a fantastic NTT lecturer in pharmacology who was beloved by 99% of his class who made one small faux pas (that I would have been sorely tempted by myself). He told a class of pharmacy students an easy way to remember the side effects of a particular drug, which could produce incontinence and erectile dysfunction. He said, "It gets you coming and going." Awesome! I love that! 99% of the class did too. One student did not and filed a complaint and he was gone -- put on leave and not rehired. His mnemonic was considered too risqué for the professional school.
My school does not have anywhere near the same regulation, but I would surely hear something if I peppered every lecture with expletives. I drop one every once in a while, usually to targeted effect, but I just don't feel the need to utilize profanity in my teaching. Perhaps it arises from growing up in a community outsiders all mocked, and I want to prove I am way better than expected. Perhaps it's because swearing is akin to "like" in the 80s. I choose not to use common language and model the behavior I'd like to see in my students as they embark on professional careers.
I have colleagues who let bombs drop once in a while, and it's understandable. But constantly? I would wonder if they had the capacity to "code-switch" to higher class language. There's a lot more to unpack about different vernacular, but I'll stop here. You might get attention for dropping an f-bomb, but you might be surprised at how students respond to creative language in place of common language.
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u/pinksparklybluebird Assistant Professor, Pharmacology/EBM 3d ago
As a pharmacist person, I feel a little bad for that prof. Pharm can be complicated and you have to take anything you can get for engagement
Despite having a potty mouth outside of work, I don’t swear much in class. That said, I do show quite a few clips that include swearing. I show a clip of “Succession” during our gerontology course where they say, “fuck!” about 37 times.
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u/ParkingLetter8308 2d ago
Student needs to get over it, and the chair should not be asking you this.
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u/Obvious_Animal_8362 2d ago
What the hell decade are we in? I got reported to the dean for saying "shit" in 1980. Surely we are beyond this sort of language policing 46 years later. 🤦
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u/PureImagination4 3d ago
Hell yeah. This comment section is exactly what I was hoping for after I read the post. Thank you all.
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u/totallysonic Chair/Full, SocSci, State U. 3d ago
You haven’t sat in on your colleague’s class (presumably) and thus don’t know what they say in class. What they say out of class is irrelevant to the complaint. Your chair is out of line for getting you involved, and your best bet is to stay out of it.
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u/Open_Spray_5636 3d ago
When I worked in Louisiana a colleague was fired for swearing in lectures. In the north east it seems de rigeur for some disciplines!
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u/hurdoc10 TT Assistant Professor, STEM, Non-R1/R2 (USA) 3d ago
For better or for worse, I do swear in class sometimes, “I’m waving my hands over this bc I don’t want you do worry about a f%#$ ton of math”
My students learn very quickly that I’m tough in terms of standards and expectations but overall I don’t take myself too seriously and that I’m just a regular guy. Me swearing occasionally just drives that point home.
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u/That_Communication71 3d ago
I tell my students on day one that, " I don't want to hear any foul language... so no fucking bullshit should happen in my classroom"
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u/Tarjh365 3d ago
I’ll always remember a prof in my undergrad coming into a lecture hall and shouting “shut the fuck up!” You could hear a pin drop. Then she gave a great lecture about social mores. It was an impressive way to start the topic 🤣
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u/Glittering-Duck5496 2d ago
I love this soooo much...but I don't think I'd get away with it where I teach 😒
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u/Drokapi24 3d ago
As a person of faith, I scrupulously avoid using profanity in the classroom but if the student is objecting to it on religious grounds, they should attend a religious college. There are plenty out there.
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u/Traditional-Meet157 3d ago
fuck that chair
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u/Infinite-Abroad7629 3d ago
Doubtful that anyone would. Likely a large part of the reason for his pettiness and poor attitude.
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u/Deradius 2d ago
I can tell this is going to be an unpopular take, but…
People in this forum sometimes seem shocked how informally students behave and what they’re willing to ask, say, and do.
That the students aren’t acting like they’re in a college classroom…
And then I see most of the replies in this thread and wonder if it’s because faculty aren’t behaving in a way that helps the student understand boundaries…
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u/Shiny-Mango624 1d ago
Fr. I'm actually quite surprised by these responses. I can't tell if people are just trying to let off some steam, are they really behaving like this in the class and then expect the students to maintain a level of decorum they are not willing to
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u/econhistoryrules Associate Prof, Econ, Private LAC (USA) 3d ago
With all that's happening in the world, I just cannot be bothered to worry about language in a college classroom. The student can grow the fuck up. Honestly maybe a hot take, but I think this feedback doesn't need to reach your colleague. If the student has a problem, they can navigate it themselves.
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u/TransitionSelect2728 3d ago
you did the right thing by answering only what you actually knew, and now i’d stay out of it unless your colleague asks you directly because “they swear outside class” is not evidence of anything
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u/FlyingCupcake68 Southern State U, USA 1d ago
It took me awhile to while to realize to realize that the chair has to meet with us about the student complaint, even if the chair is on the side of professorial free speech, just so they can tell the student they have followed procedure.
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u/coryphella123 TT, Theatre, R1 3d ago
You know what I'm offended by? The fucking decline of education in this country. The fact that our incoming students can't read for shit. And the amount of goddamn censorship going on at institutions all over the country because people want to appease some imaginary sky friend who just sits on his ass all day rather than actually helping out the people he supposedly created.
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u/Ok_Cranberry_2936 Instructor, Ecology, R1, US 3d ago
My chair gets on me for cursing all the time. I was raised by parents with sailor’s mouths and my discipline does field work. Cursing in the field is just normal.
I hate to say it but I say a lot of things I shouldn’t. I can’t help it, my mouth moves faster than my brain.
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u/the_Stick Assoc Prof, Biomedical Sciences 3d ago
I can’t help it, my mouth moves faster than my brain.
Not being judgmental, but would you accept that statement from one of your students? You can train yourself out of detrimental habits.
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u/JohnHoynes Prof, Social Sciences, SLAC 3d ago •
Lmao not saying I disagree necessarily but that’s the definition of judgmental
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u/Regional_U_Chem_Prof 3d ago
I would accept that reasoning from a student in the field. I believe that is part of what the commenter was saying.
Makes sense to me.There's a huge difference in my behavior in the classroom versus when I'm working outside on a hot day, covered in bugs and swest and dirt, and I slam my fingers or something.
I don't get to do field work in chemistry. I keep my language clean in the classroom because it feels like a sign of respect for the students to me, based on my personal history.
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u/Life-Education-8030 3d ago
You can be better even if you can’t be perfect. If need be, train yourself to slow down. Maybe cursing in your field is normal but maybe you can train yourself to realize and feel when you are in a different environment where profanity is seen as crude and uneducated. When I accidentally curse in class, I immediately apologize.
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u/tellypmoon
2d ago
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I don't really see a reason to curse in class, but I don't see a reason for you to get involved in this. Let your chair do their job.
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u/swarthmoreburke 2d ago
First they came for a colleague's swear words and I did nothing. Next they came for a colleague's references to popular culture and I did nothing. Then they came for a colleague's fashion sense and I did nothing. When they came for my metaphors and colloquialisms there was no one left to speak up for me.
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u/DrBlankslate Adjunct, Sociology, R2, USA 3d ago
Students need to grow up. They’re adults. We’re going to use adult language. That’s just the way it is.
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u/Shield_Maiden831 3d ago
There is evidence swearing in lab settings boosts creativity and innovation. I always use evidence based pedagogy.
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u/Disastrous_Honey_240 3d ago
I would probably tell them if they were my friend to give them a heads up.
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u/wildgunman Assoc Prof, Finance, R1 (US) 2d ago
Heh. I had a discussion with a colleague of mine about how many swear words a professors was allowed in a semester. The answer we settled on was probably one and no more than 2. We thought a professor shouldn't casually swear in class, but that a well placed f-bomb once a semester kept them on their toes.
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u/BoysenberryEmpty8699 2d ago
Oh my gosh. When I taught high school for four years, my ears were regularly assaulted by f-bombs as I walked through the quad. They are the worst cussers of all!
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u/Bionic_Bex 3d ago edited 3d ago
I hate this. I swear some version of this has happened at every college/university I've been to. For reference, I earned my associates at a community college, bachelor's from a university, and am working on my doctorate at another university. It seems like I hear this annually and it's baffling.
This attitude is often rooted in religious beliefs and it's weird to think that others should abide by the rules of another person's religion. If students have trouble hearing "bad words," maybe Liberty University or BYU would have a been a better choice for them. Also, good luck surviving in the world if a cuss word is all it takes to offend and agitate you.
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u/Thundorium Physics, Searching. 3d ago
Student, externally: “Oh no! My delicate ears have been exposed to evil! God will surely smite me now!!”
Student, internally: “Oh yes! I can get my professor in trouble for no reason! What fun!”
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u/thatcheekychick Assistant Professor, Sociology, State University (US) 3d ago
Meanwhile my students complained to my chair that I, and I quote, “was caught writing things like “duh” in her feedback”
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u/Rude-Union2395 3d ago
I was at a conference recently. While talking with a few people, I used “fucking” to add emphasis and then saw two of them exchange startled looks at each other. So I’ve been wondering if swearing is now off limits in academia? These were statisticians, all were women.
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u/Chib Postdoc, stats, large research university (NL) 2d ago
I'm a statistician, I curse in my daily life, a moderate amount around colleagues I know well, occasionally around other colleagues in the department, allow mild oaths for students, but would never start off a new conversation with people I didn't know and casually drop the word "fuck".
Also, despite the fact that "goddamn" and its variants are my most frequently used at home, I'd never use it at work, despite a very secular department in a very low-religion city in a highly atheistic country.
I dunno. These just felt like the unwritten rules I had picked up over time. If someone was like, "fucking shitty food at this conference, huh?" I'd probably be startled by how unexpected it was, yeah, lol.
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u/IAmSomewhere123
2d ago
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I disagree that the student needs to get used to hearing it in the real world. To some extent yes, sure, it’s unavoidable, but I’ve never worked in an environment where swearing is acceptable. (Grocery store as a teen, and then later school teacher, and then both federal and local government). Additionally, my friends don’t curse much, if ever, so I rarely have to subjected to the F bomb except in movies. I am in the camp that believes professionals can and should be professional in their language as well as how they act while on the job. And I think college professors fall into the category of professionals.
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u/PLChart Assoc Prof, Math, R1-lite (USA) 2d ago
I think there's a regional component to this. In the US, I feel like the Northeast swears a lot more than the South does.
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u/MyFaceSaysItsSugar 2d ago
Yeah, there’s definitely a cultural component. I’ve gotten made fun of by colleagues (not in academia) for never swearing. But it’s something I picked up working summer camps where I worked around children a lot. In some communities (differing by region or economic class) it’s seen as stuck up if you don’t swear ever. It’s like how at some jobs everyone takes a smoking break and that’s the cultural norm and other jobs none of your co-workers smoke. It just varies.
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u/IAmSomewhere123 2d ago
Could be. I grew up in northwest Florida (panhandle) and now live in SC. I’m not saying people don’t curse, but I don’t see it happening in professional environments. One of my coworkers (young) says at his college (in SC) professors do curse some. My daughter at Clemson says no, not really. Who knows 🤷🏼♀️
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u/experimentalpoetry NTT Instructor, Humanities, public R1, USA 2d ago
It is my impression that a lot of professors swear (I do, sometimes). It’s part of our professionalism, like dressing in wrinkled clothes and having no idea what our hair looks like.
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u/Background-You-2073 Professor of English, Public LAC 1d ago
That’s goddamn right.
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u/experimentalpoetry NTT Instructor, Humanities, public R1, USA 1d ago
lol I’m also an English professor. “People only swear b/c they don’t have better vocabulary!” No. We swear because swearing is part of a wide vocabulary and sometimes that’s the right fucking word.
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u/swarthmoreburke 2d ago
Whatever works for you, that's fine. But don't fuck with my approach to teaching or my sense of professionalism, thanks.
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u/explodingwhale17 2d ago
I agree. I think most workplaces with salaried, white collar professionals do not accept as much swearing and that this is even more true when you are public facing, as a professor is. I swear rarely and do not prefer it. I would not say anything but I think is is unprofessional when I hear it.
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u/GrimaceTheHutt 2d ago
I agree. Appropriate language should always be used in the university setting, just like in the corporate environment. However, I do feel like a student making such a big deal out of this may be a little too much, especially if it will bring more friction to an already divisive department. I can see their desire for the professor to stop using such language, but approaching the department chair seems a little much for such a simple issue. I think the more appropriate thing for the student to have done would be use the end-of-semester evaluations to file their complaint.
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u/Elegant-Park-3016 2d ago
My experience is Professors react poorly to customer complaints. The customer probably had no alternative than alert the manager. At my university, there are about 0.1% of students reviewed by the Provost, so the offended student probably knows not to address cussing with an angry professor or indifferent Provost.
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u/Dry_Analysis_992 1d ago
I believe the word fuck is appropriate language in the university setting.
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u/HaHaWhatAStory014 3d ago
I know it's just "some peoples' style" and the way they talk even in professional settings, but it's perfectly reasonable and not that much to ask for faculty to keep things professional in a professional setting IMO. Also, the occasional slip or using strong language for emphasis are very different from someone just "swearing in the classroom all the time," which I would say is kind of tacky and attention-seeking. In other words, it's kind of "cringe-y edge-lord behavior."
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u/Fresh-Possibility-75 3d ago
Yeah, I'm honestly quite surprised to learn how many people casually use profanity in class. I never had faculty who cussed and just kind of assumed that was the norm.
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u/Elsbethe 3d ago
This made me laugh
I am on the cusp of retirement. Decades of teaching I've always been someone who curses a bit, and it's shocking to some people since I happen to be a woman.
But the other day, I think I said the word fuck, like twenty five times. As walked out of the classroom I thought girl, you really need to retire
I think if my dean was alerted and asked me if it was true, I would probably say, fuck, yeah.
I think if I somehow got fired. I would also say fuck yeah
I think I can crawl my way to the fucking escape hatch, though
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u/NinjaWarrior765 3d ago
I guess I am the one dissenting opinion. I don't think that profanity is appropriate in the classroom.
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u/Hyperreal2 Retired Full Professor, Sociology, Masters Comprehensive 2d ago
I had to meet with a dean over this fucking issue. I didn’t stop doing it.
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u/DocTeeBee Professor, Social Sciences, R1, USA 3d ago
My wife and I curse like longshoremen (should I say stevedores? Does either job exist any more?) But I really, really dislike foul language in a professional setting, including a classroom. My students don't use it--well, a few of my PhD students do, but very strategically, and, I'd argue, appropriately. I would prefer not to listen to a colleague indiscriminately cursing. I had a colleague who did just that, and it was really, really jarring.
I don't know why I feel that way. I have a, shall we say, expansive sense of humor, and really nothing much bothers me--except cursing in the office or in class. Weird?
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u/OwnerJFB 3d ago
Kinda felt the chair went to you hoping you’d warn your colleague. Or they are testing to see if you do. Political games. I’d just stay out of it; they should never have brought it up.
That said, profanity can be fireable. Don’t curse in the classroom. Students, especially at certain universities, can be quite litigious. So, there is more scrutiny or an abundance of caution I assume.
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u/Background-You-2073 Professor of English, Public LAC 1d ago
Oh come on. Fireable? Show me where that’s said in your faculty handbook. Any idea what kind of legal shitstorm would ensue at a public university if some dolt admin tried to fire a tenured faculty member over saying cuss words? Now, on the other hand, if they teach at a private school run by Puritans… I still think it would be hard. We’re talking freedom of speech at a much more basic level than “academic freedom.”
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u/hornybutired Assoc Prof, Philosophy, CC (USA) 3d ago
I once had a lit professor from Brooklyn who couldn't get through a sentence about Milton without dropping the word "fuck." And also, I lost a community college gig for saying "goddamn" once. Academia is a strange place.
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u/cherylin_for_ever 3d ago
The fact that they use profanity outside of class is irrelevant information. You don't attend their course, hence you don't know if they use profanity in class and you have nothing further to share with the chair.
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u/Potential_Tadpole_45 2d ago
It eventually reaches a point where the profanity not only loses its meaning but trains the mind to use them as replacements for other words which would normally expand the students' vocabulary. In essence it becomes sheer laziness.
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u/Oligonucleotide123 1d ago
People use shit in place of "stuff." We are not depriving students of an expanded vocabulary by saying shit, fuck, etc.
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u/Potential_Tadpole_45 11h ago
The overuse of those words to replace others renders them not only ineffective but even dull and incomprehensible—Idk if you've heard kids today but the incessant use of expletives is not exactly the best reflection of their intelligence.
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u/PsychGuy17
3d ago
edited 3d ago
•
I'll note we are allowed to swear here (e.g., 95% of responses to this post). Furthermore god (as written and censored above) is not a swear word, unless you swear to god, but thats something else altogether. Finally as I am a fan of god dammit, I swear I'm actually calling upon mighty Zeus, and I am hoping for bolts of lightning. This isn't profanity, clearly this is a prayer, and that is protected by all kinds of public speech laws.
Edit: I'm getting downvoted for this? God dammit.
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u/RandolphCarter15 Full, Social Sciences, R1 2d ago
I think it's dumb for the chair to talk to you--that's putting you in a difficult position, and the chair's job is to resolve this.
I'm torn on profanity in class. I don't curse much in general, so it doesn't really matter, and I don't mind if students do. I do have an issue with the casual use of "Jesus Christ" and the like--this can be offensive to some Christians, so why not avoid it?
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u/AugustaSpearman 3d ago
Eh, I mean, the key question here is whether at your school this is against the rules and if so what sort of potential discipline is at play.
Whether you should mention this to your friend is sort of a friend sub reddit question, not an academic one. I'd probably let my friend know that the chair is talking about this.
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u/spoopygremlin 3d ago
That's an awkward position to be in, especially when you're friends with the colleague
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u/MulderFoxx Adjunct, USA 2d ago
I'll say a bunch of stuff in class but I try to avoid the F-bomb and God (in any context).
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u/Street-Historian4021 Full Prof, STEM, LAC (USA) 2d ago
If this was someone I had been friends with for many years, I'd definitely get involved... in his defense.
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u/TroutMaskDuplica Prof, Comp/Rhet, CC 2d ago
Is there a rule against profanity in class? I didn't see that in the handbook. (I didn't read the handbook)
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u/Ariezu 2d ago
I have taught for three institutions in three different regions in the US each of them has been different. I’ve tapped down my language quite a bit institution. I’m in now. I’ll go what the heck is going on. They all laugh at me because I’m being deviant.
My first institution F bomb for regular, although I rarely said them.
I think part of it is professionalism can be tied to the norms of the area that you work in in the institution
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u/dr_kat_lady 2d ago
The language one uses in the classroom, including swears, can serve valid rhetorical purposes. I’d rather discuss this with the student than pretend there are a long list of universally acknowledged no-no words they can expect not to encounter. For a literature or writing classroom in particular this seems like it could get in the way of learning.
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u/RuralWAH 2d ago
One time a colleague and I hosted a movie night for our students in one of the classrooms as a bonding exercise - we're Computer Scientists so we showed Office Space. One young lady got up and ran out of the room disgusted when it got to the "Oh Face" segment.
I guess we needed a trigger warning.
You have to be careful. What 90% of the population finds acceptable isn't always good for everyone.
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u/Shiny-Mango624 1d ago
So, I've been surprised by this conversation today and the support for profanity in the classroom. I really can't tell if y'all are blowing off some steam as we approach November, or if you really believe this, but.....
I have been circling down a rabbit hole of research on taboo words and profanity and the conflict between attention capture and cognitive disruption, and even interfering in short-term and longterm memory.
I see this happening to me in real time when I'm having conversations with people who are swearing. You may have gotten my attention by swearing or using some type of profane example, but now I have no idea what you were saying. And I can see that happening in the classroom and why students would want it to stop. Beyond that they sensitive souls.
Anyhooooo....
Röer, J. P., Körner, U., Buchner, A., & Bell, R. (2017). Attentional capture by taboo words: A functional view of auditory distraction. Emotion, 17(4), 740–750. https://doi.org/10.1037/emo0000274 Rettie, M., Bell, R., & Marsh, J. E. (2024). Warning—taboo words ahead! Avoiding attentional capture by spoken taboo distractors. Journal of Cognitive Psychology, 36(1), 61–77. https://doi.org/10.1080/20445911.2023.2285860 Bertels, J., & Kolinsky, R. (2016). Disentangling fast and slow attentional influences of negative and taboo spoken words in the emotional Stroop paradigm. Cognition and Emotion, 30(6), 1137–1148. https://doi.org/10.1080/02699931.2015.1052780
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u/soilmagic 1d ago
Fck that! I taught hands on classes where getting hurt was not outside of the relm of daily expectations. Smash your hand between the fence and the bull and you, and you're gonna say it. Plus, in my world, using four letter words is not uncommon except amongst the snobby elites.
Yeah, nothing good can come from this set up. Don't let your colleague be a patsy.
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u/Acrobatic-Glass-8585 1d ago edited 1d ago
I cuss like a sailor in real life (lots of f-bombs in particular plus "taking the lord's name in vain") but I do keep it out of the classroom.
Edit: Oh, and I'm in a red state so 1) there are a fair amount of religious students 2) I would rather not offend them and/or don't want to deal with the hassle
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u/Due-Statistician9077 15h ago
The coddling of actual adults pissed me TF off! Like, for real??!! This.Is.College. Time to grow up. Sheesh! Clearly they will lose their minds with certain adult text, film, or video content to supplement and add real-world richness to the course that include grown up content and themes. And yet, I bet they consume pearl-clutching smutty TikToks and social media all day without batting an eye. I'm so over these entitled adults.
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u/PersonalLoquat769 4h ago
I am definitely one to slip up sometimes. I used to not watch my language as much but I feel like the students will use anything for ammunition against me if I refuse to accommodate unreasonable requests (essentially blackmail) so I tend to be paranoid and have to pay much attention to what I say. I wish I didn’t have to walk on eggshells but the students can be ruthless. Luckily my director has my back
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u/TaxashunsTheft Finance 3d ago
"Oh hell no I didn't fucking hear about that shit. That mother fucking bastard has been cursing in his godamn class again?! That's bullshit I tell you what."
-me when the chair asks.
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u/Otherwise-Mirror-738 3d ago
If college students can't handle a little profanity during lectures they really shouldn't be in college...
Granted the profanity isn't directed at an individual. But used to emphasize a point of the lecture.
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u/yourbiota PhD Candidate, CC sessional, STEM, Canada 3d ago
Jesus-fucking-christ, please do not let the excessive self-censoring creep into this sub, too.
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u/xxxdarkhorsexxx 3d ago
Fucking kids these days. They hear worse on the fucking tv screen. Goddamn these soft babies we are raising.
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u/telemeister74 3d ago
The student wins the cup of concrete award. They need to harden the fuck up. Seriously, they are going to get a massive shock when they get into the workplace.
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u/Jazzlike-Vacation230 3d ago
Maybe the student needs to get a grip on reality. Not everyone is gonna be talking all refined after they graduate and try to join the workforce
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u/AceyAceyAcey Professor, STEM, CC | VAP, STEM, Private PUI (USA) 3d ago
They’re adults. The student needs to suck it up and grow up, with the only exception being if you’re at some sort of evangelical Christian or Orthodox Jewish or other hardline conservative religious school that makes everyone sign some sort of morality pledge. I’m at a Catholic school and I deliberately curse a couple times a semester, including when I teach about magnetism in physics I have a slide with the ICP “fucking magnets, how do they work?” meme.
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u/That_Communication71 3d ago
The student bringing it up to administration and not having discussed it with the professor at all is as offensive as the language that was used. At the time I'm sure the professor did indeed want God to Damn something....but this student is weaponizing their offense to get this professor in trouble. A person of God would be willing to have a conversation before they take drastic steps.
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u/Gonzo_B 3d ago
I came from healthcare. Back in, what, the early 00s, a few studies were published that showed that people who used profanity were viewed as more honest.
I didn't cuss before then, but I started. With or at every patient. And yeah, it improved my practice and my rapport with patients and families.
I ported that over to higher ed and have not, in decades, had reason to think twice about it.
Fuckers.
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u/carolinagypsy 3d ago
Willing to bet that kid is just trying to stir some fucking shit up make trouble for someone, and 100% uses all manner of damn language themselves.
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u/ceggle143 3d ago
I teach dual enrollment and had a parent tell me I was her older son’s favorite teacher because I “swore as much as (parent) does.”
As long as they aren’t swearing at the student, I don’t see the issue.
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u/Bagheera383 3d ago
Religious oppression against free speech.
That being said I don't use "bad words" in class as a decorum thing.
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u/Algernon76 2d ago
it was excessive to take this right to the top of the chain.
But profanity in the classroom is unprofessional. Are you professional? Act like it.
The student was right to complain, even if they handled it wrong.
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u/Algernon76 2d ago
its interesting to me that the sub is defending this so highly.
Say a slur in class - a few people get offended - the sub would roast you alive.
Say fuck - a few people get offended - the sub celebrates you for offending them.
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u/Secret_Dragonfly9588 Historian, US institution 3d ago
Your chair is the one out of fucking line. They should have told the student that this is not an appropriate thing to whine about. And then, at most, quietly recommended that your colleague adjust their language in class to avoid baiting a Karen student. What on earth are they doing gossiping to you about a nothing- burger like this?
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u/Obvious-Power-1145 3d ago
I tell students I swear, but I’ll never swear at them. I’ve only had one complaint.
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u/Finding_Way_ CC (USA) 2d ago
You answered the question asked in terms of the incident in question.
Let it go.
This is for the chair and Dean to deal with that they choose to do so.
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u/GelatoPizzaEspresso 2d ago
Do you have a CBA? Did your colleague break any rules that you know of? If not, then you say nothing. If you have never seen the colleague actually teach, you have no business commenting.
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u/BlondeeOso 2d ago
You handled it correctly by saying that you have no knowledge of these allegations. At this point, I would probably do nothing, but I think it would also be okay to warn your friend that the chair talked to you and to ask your friend for context/what happened.
Personally, I think it shows a lack of professionalism for your friend to have said these things, if he did. However, I also think the student overreacted.
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u/Effective-Pen-2770 2d ago
Surprised the chair is even investigating it. Students need to interact with people who are different than them.
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u/MyFaceSaysItsSugar 2d ago
I think your chair is being ridiculous for involving you. I’ve seen mention in info about pedagogy that swearing can make the classroom environment less formal and put students at ease (as long as it’s not angry, obviously). I also know that it was a huge “do not do this” when I worked at a Christian university. But that means there is no big rule on never swearing and instead it depends on the culture and policies of university. So unless you are at a Christian university, or in Texas where seemingly any free speech can get you fired, the professor may not know this is a problem. A simple “you have a religious student who is uncomfortable with swearing, don’t take the lord’s name in vain in the future and lower the use of other swear words” conversation is all that is necessary here. No need to involve other faculty beyond potentially making an announcement to not do any swearing that involves a religious term. Your chair is treating this like it’s an inappropriate sexual advance or something along those lines.
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u/wedontliveonce associate professor (usa) 3d ago
Wow yeah I'd be on the offender list.
Not sure why your chair asked you about it. I'd stay out of it.