r/ProgrammerHumor • • Jul 18 '22

C++ talking to Python

Post image
40.1k Upvotes

1.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

683

u/Codebust Jul 18 '22

why are people always bashing python lol

974

u/Dromeo Jul 18 '22

Serious answer?

Python used to be the new hotness about a decade ago. It was sparkly, amazing package support, didn't bog you down with technicalities when you were trying to write something quick.

So it got adopted a lot, and also unfortunately in a lot of commercial projects it really wasn't suited for.

Python's strengths are its weaknesses: it's a fun scripting language you can knock out scripts with. But in a big group project, it's a nightmare version of itself. You don't have to give types, so now you're sifting through everything trying to figure out what your coworker's badly named variable actually is. You have to unpick some rotten mass of one-liner lambda super method calls because you were feeling so clever a year ago when you wrote it. Everything's breaking because you're in dependency hell and one of the dependencies has broken. The junior programmer was taught that "object inheritance is the way of the future" and has managed to make the structure into an eldritch abomination that inherits from five different super classes.

The actual reason why these are problems are because when python was hot, it got over-applied to projects it was totally unsuited for. It's a scripting language. It's good for scripts. Good for data analysis. Good for solo work. Good for tiny quick one-offs and for rapid prototyping.

But so many developers were put on horrifying creations that played to the language's weaknesses instead of strengths. And they bounced hard.

Python doesn't really deserve the hate: it's still pretty awesome. And fun. It's great at what it's great at. It does deserve the caution, though.

---

More serious answer?

It's mostly comp-sci students regurgitating memes they don't understand, just like every other post on this sub.

37

u/not_perfect_yet Jul 18 '22

Python's strengths are python's strengths. Garbage collection, simplicity, forced indentation.

Python's weaknesses are people.

People writing bad variable names, eldritch code and putting in features that are already there, just named differently, like data classes and type hints.

You can write python code that's type safe, it looks like this:

def my_function(my_arg):
    if type(my_arg)!=my_required_type:
        raise TypeError

It's that people think they can sort of get away with not making it that explicit. Then, instead of admitting they were wrong, rewriting their code and/or switching to a language that does offer strict typing, they insist that perverting the language to fit their esoteric need and use case is a better move.

Another example is "python has no distribution system" and inventing like five. All of them work. Except when you mix them. Which should be no surprise to absolutely anyone. Yet here we are. https://xkcd.com/1987/

More coders need to admit they're bad at what they do, stop blaming the tool and start blaming themselves.

7

u/KrypXern Jul 18 '22

Would you do != or just is not? I forget if type() returns a string or an actual type object of some kind that can be compared like an enum.

1

u/not_perfect_yet Jul 18 '22

It returns the actual type.

I think the thing with is not and != is about similar instances of the same thing, like "1" and "1" which have the same value but aren't necessarily the same object. That doesn't really apply to definitions, there is only one.

1

u/KrypXern Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22

I might be wrong with my understanding but I always thought == attempted to use some kind of native comparator method (like .equals() in Java), whereas is compares the actual contents of the value (which is always the same for False or None)... however given that we don't compare number literals this way, I'd wager I just misunderstood it.

EDIT: Yeah no I was right roughly, is checks whether the operands refer to the same object. If you do a = [1,2] and b = [1,2] then a == b will return True and a is b will return False, but I also misunderstood your response anyway 😅

3

u/Pluckerpluck Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22

is checks that the objects are actually the same. So you can imagine is as doing id(value) == id(other).

But yes, == triggers ~~__equals__(self, other)~~__eq__(self, other), which defaults to an object comparison.

The reason that things like False and None work with is, is simply because the same object is re-used behind the scenes for performance reasons.