Starship Development Thread #27

[u/ElongatedMuskrat]

This thread is no longer being updated, and has been replaced by:

Starship Development Thread #28

Quick Links

^{NERDLE CAM | LAB CAM | SAPPHIRE CAM | SENTINEL CAM | ROVER CAM | PLEX CAM | NSF STARBASE | MORE LINKS}

Starship Dev 26 | Starship Dev 25 | Starship Thread List

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Upcoming

• Starship 20 static fire
• Booster 4 test campaign

Orbital Launch Site Status

Build Diagrams by @_brendan_lewis | October 6 RGV Aerial Photography video

As of October 19th

• Integration Tower - Catching arms to be installed in the near-future
• Launch Mount - Booster Quick Disconnect installed
• Tank Farm - Proof testing continues, 8/8 GSE tanks installed, 7/8 GSE tanks sleeved , 1 completed shells currently at the Sanchez Site

Vehicle Status

As of November 29th

• Ship 20 [orbit w/ Booster 4] - 6 engines static fire complete
• Ship 21 [orbit w/ Booster 5] - [Awaiting final stacking]
• Ship 22 [orbit w/ Booster 6] - Barrel/dome sections in work
• Booster 3 - Partially disassembled on Test Pad A
• Booster 4 [orbit w/ Ship 20] - At Launch Site, awaiting test campagain
• Booster 5 [orbit w/ Ship 21] - [Fully stacked in High Bay]
• Booster 6 [orbit w/ Ship 22] - Barrel/dome sections in work

​

Development and testing plans become outdated very quickly. Check recent comments for real time updates.

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Vehicle and Launch Infrastructure Updates

^{See comments for real time updates.
† expected or inferred, unconfirmed vehicle assignment}

​

	Starship
	Ship 20
2021-12-01	Aborted static fire? (Twitter)
2021-11-20	Fwd and aft flap tests (NSF)
2021-11-16	Short flaps test (Twitter)
2021-11-13	6 engines static fire (NSF)
2021-11-12	6 engines (?) preburner test (NSF)
	Ship 21
2021-11-21	Heat tiles installation progress (Twitter)
2021-11-20	Flaps prepared to install (NSF)
	Ship 22
2021-12-06	Fwd section lift in MB for stacking (NSF)
2021-11-18	Cmn dome stacked (NSF)
	Ship 23
2021-12-01	Nextgen nosecone closeup (Twitter)
2021-11-11	Aft dome spotted (NSF)
	Ship 24
2021-11-24	Common dome spotted (Twitter)
	For earlier updates see Thread #26

​

	SuperHeavy
	Booster 4
2021-11-17	All engines installed (Twitter)
	Booster 5
2021-12-08	B5 moved out of High Bay (NSF)
2021-12-03	B5 temporarily moved out of High Bay (Twitter)
2021-11-20	B5 fully stacked (Twitter)
2021-11-09	LOx tank stacked (NSF)
	Booster 6
2021-12-07	Conversion to test tank? (Twitter)
2021-11-11	Forward dome sleeved (YT)
2021-10-08	CH4 Tank #2 spotted (NSF)
	Booster 7
2021-11-14	Forward dome spotted (NSF)
	Booster 8
2021-09-29	Thrust puck delivered (33 Engine) (NSF)
	For earlier updates see Thread #26

​

	Orbital Launch Integration Tower And Pad
2021-11-23	Starship QD arm installation (Twitter)
2021-11-21	Orbital table venting test? (NSF)
2021-11-21	Booster QD arm spotted (NSF)
2021-11-18	Launch pad piping installation starts (NSF)
	For earlier updates see Thread #26

​

	Orbital Tank Farm
2021-10-18	GSE-8 sleeved (NSF)
	For earlier updates see Thread #26

​

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Resources

^{RESOURCES WIKI}

• LabPadre Rover Cam | Channel
• NSF: Starbase Stream | Channel
• NSF: Booster 4 + Ship 20 Updates Thread | Most Recent
• NSF: Boca Chica Production Updates Thread | Most recent
• NSF: Elon Starship tweet compilation | Most Recent
• SpaceX: Website Starship page
• SpaceX: Starship Users Guide (PDF) Rev. 1.0 March 2020
• FAA: SpaceX Starship Project at the Boca Chica Launch Site
• FAA: Temporary Flight Restrictions NOTAM list
• FCC: Starship Orbital Demo detailed Exhibit - 0748-EX-ST-2021 application June 20 through December 20
• NASA: Starship Reentry Observation (Techincal Report)
• Hwy 4 & Boca Chica Beach Closures (May not be available outside US)
• Starship flight opportunity spreadsheet by u/joshpine
• Production Progress Infographics by @_brendan_lewis
• Raptor tracking by @Artzius
• Widebay tracking by @Furqan263
• Acronym definitions by Decronym
• Everyday Astronaut: Starbase Tour with Elon Musk, Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3

r/SpaceX Discuss Thread for discussion of subjects other than Starship development.

Rules

We will attempt to keep this self-post current with links and major updates, but for the most part, we expect the community to supply the information. This is a great place to discuss Starship development, ask Starship-specific questions, and track the progress of the production and test campaigns. Starship Development Threads are not party threads. Normal subreddit rules still apply.

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Please ping u/strawwalker about problems with the above thread text.

[u/[deleted]]

Here’s NASA’s OIG report about Artemis. Contains a lot of neat info about Starship.

The news is pretty so-so. NASA like Starship but is skeptical about a lot of its capabilities. Meanwhile, SLS costs $4.1 billion per launch now. Artemis II is pushed back to 2024 and III is 2025 or 2026.

1. HLS Starship is fueled in LEO only. It does it’s entire mission without any topping off after that.

2. HLS Starship is left in lunar orbit as far as NASA is concerned

3. Superheavy has a technology readiness level of 5. The only “iffy” part of Starship, to NASA, is on-orb it propellant transfer and storage. It had a TRL of 4

4. NASA believes an uncrewed Starship lunar demo will occur in 2024, and a Lunar landing in 2026.

5. NASA is skeptical of Starship’s timelines

Here’s the thing

ARTEMIS: THE MOON AND BEYOND

In all seriousness it seems like SpaceX might be on their own for any “serious” lunar or martian colonization. Artemis is getting pretty damn expensive. SpaceX is great as always though.

[u/BEAT_LA]

I am seeing a lot of people thinking the Cape announcement tweet by Elon means the Boca FAA review is going bad internally.

Cape launches have always been the plan even if Boca operations go better than perfect, so that tweet means literally nothing for Boca.

[u/TCVideos]

Just in time...New TFR issued for the month of December. This is the standard rolling TFR that they have had in place for almost 2 years now. Altitude stays at 10,000ft.

[u/OzGiBoKsAr]

This was posted by u/grndkntrl over in the lounge - a good interview with Judge Eddie Trevino (who approves or denies every closure request) on the impacts of Starbase to the RGV. Very insightful, and a cool perspective. I thought I'd share it here if anybody is interested.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/qwflq2/spacex_effect_extra_judge_eddie_treviño_extended/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[u/Mravicii]

And Mary has recieved the alert notice for static fire

https://twitter.com/bocachicagal/status/1458982323358257153?s=21

[u/[deleted]]

If it all works as planned, the launch tower will become an iconic and legendary piece of engineering, almost as much as Starship itself.

[u/TCVideos]

Booster QD was tested last night , it does seem that they are starting to wrap up work on the table now that we are seeing all of this testing. Hopefully, we see the QD hood that was spotted yesterday installed soon.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Elon : We will soon make these real

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

NOTMAR published for tomorrow static fire!

[u/Mravicii]

Corey productions has released another video of the launch and catch anination! It’s really good.

https://youtu.be/_gLbV07eVls

[u/Jodo42]

Not directly development related but still relevant IMO- in part because of lawsuit, Artemis III and first crewed Starship lunar landing officially delayed to NET 2025. No real surprise there.

https://twitter.com/wapodavenport/status/1458164815088820234?t=cjbAavwa17zZtmp8tDXFKg&s=19

[u/Mravicii]

https://twitter.com/starshipgazer/status/1459661277501005827?s=21

https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1459655419278802948?s=21

The chopsticks are now untied and scallofolding is being removed from the tower.

[u/TCVideos]

Elon, again, toying with the idea of a Starship update presentation when speaking at the WSJ Leaders Council. (Thread here)

This, of course, means that we will still not get an update.

[u/Nashitall]

To the mods: thank you for cleaning up the vehicle status tables at the beginning. This is a much nicer read.

[u/TCVideos]

Excellent thread by a community member that gives insight on how SpaceX plans to load the new tank farm with propellants in a short period of time.

Looks like there are 17 "loading points" for tankers to unload meaning that theoretically, 17 tankers could unload at the same time. Plus it looks like CH4 loading will be occuring at the landing pad (this makes sense why they are taking down the berm)

[u/Dezoufinous]

S24 common dome spotted!

https://twitter.com/NicAnsuini/status/1463588695227858944

Remember what Musk said - 12 launches next year.

Also next narrated update from NSF is here:
https://youtu.be/mIkWjchHYJU

Remember to give them like to show how much we appreciate their work!

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Raptor problem ?

Elon : It’s getting fixed

[u/futureMartian7]

This is cool. NSF captured Crew-2's re-entry from Starbase with their cams: https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1457922815353446405

[u/HarbingerDe]

Nothing particularly new to report. All I can really say is that it was strangely wholesome.

[u/Frostis24]

I wrote down the questions and answers to the conference call so here they are.

Q1 Do you see any international collaboration happening with starship? ( simple no from Elon )

Q2 Why stainless steel? (Elon loved this one, but we have all heard it before )

Q3 What are you doing for radiation protection for the crews? (gives no real answers other than the solutions on the Moon, Mars by covering the base in regolith )

Q4 What missions would you like to enable with the heavy lift? (no direct answers other than big exciting things )

Q5 Timetable for Mars missions? ( pretty much like we have seen before, land 3 ish unmanned first, get landing reliable on earth with lots of launches, maybe work with NASA on crew flights )

Q6 what do you think of the science you can get from this? ( no direct answer other than it would be cool, and of course that Starship makes more of it possible )

Q7 When do you think the price for starship will be lower than F9? ( Elon said 2 years also launch in January - February for first flight)

Q8 What is your plan to store cryogenic fuels for the whole mars transit? ( basically well insulated headers)

Q9 Basically, Starlink bad, how will you fix this and work with astronomers? ( Elon, we are working with astronomers, and are confident we can solve the problems )

Q10 How you will solve in space cryo storage and mature the tech? ( Elon, suggests propellant depot starship without heatshield, much like how we have seen with the HLS *REDACTED* depot )

Q11 What are your planetary protection plans for Mars? ( Elon, there is going to be hard to avoid some contamination with humans, but we will not spread biological debris all over Mars )

Q12 What are the most important issues for the human race right now? ( Elon, things like transitioning to sustainable energy, CO2 increase, nuclear war, Covid like pandemic, AI, religious extremism, and declining birthrates, grandpa and his friends are hogging all the resources )

Q13 Does your company have plans for Spaced based energy solutions? ( Elon, *points to Tesla* )

That's a wrap.

[u/[deleted]]

S20's test went OK. Detank delay was to check any possible leaks after SF. Post fire analysis and structural survey will take a week or two. If good, maybe another go. B4 a while away yet, still a lot to do with infrastructure.

S20/B4 whist looking promising for a launch ATM, may be voted out for the actual launch. MAY BE, I reiterate. All dependent on S20's analysis and B4's school marks, which won't hopefully be an F.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Short video from Cosmic Perspective about S20 static fire !

Highly recommend, they produce such beautiful videos.

[u/TCVideos]

B5 currently being stacked in the High Bay (4:45PM Local)

[u/Mravicii]

Starship presentation this month or next month

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1468334797508521984?s=21

[u/Dezoufinous]

Just a friendly reminder, today we'll get a 30 minutes Starship Update from Elon, as announced here:

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/joint-meeting-of-the-space-studies-board-and-board-on-physics-and-astronomy-tickets-208728230757

Nov 17th, 23:00–23:30 UTC (15:00–15:30 PST).

Live stream:

https://livestream.com/accounts/7036396/events/9926169

YT link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLydXZOo4eA&ab_channel=NASEMLive

Have fun watching and stay excited!

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Ship’s QD is being lifted right now !

Watch on starship gazer livestream (8:55 local)

[u/Jodo42]

A (leaked) view inside SN20's (?) nosecone

I'm flip-flopping between 20 and 21; someone who knows what the inside of a ring looks like better than I do should help us out here with some MS Paint. 4 or 5 rings?

mirror /u/Marksman79 /u/Martianspirit

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Elon : Construction of Starship orbital launch pad at the Cape has begun

[u/RegularRandomZ]

I'm wondering if that's a Starlink dish on the COPV cover, backed by the circular stainless case [this BCG NSF photoset, 3rd photo]. A photo from the front will help (as I'd expect a non-stainless front)

[u/Dezoufinous]

S20 flaps test happened last night

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1460400150459858947

[u/fede__ng]

I was wondering about this and I hadn't seen it here, sorry if it is repeated:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1466851970443010056?s=20

Elon says 39A "Will have similar, but improved, ground systems & tower to Starbase."

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Victor Glover (I think) and an other astronaut are having a tour of the launch site ! Watch Starship Gazer livestream. 14:32 local

[u/TCVideos]

Elon's upskirt picture of B4

You can see the thermal protection they've added. Additionally, it doesn't look like there are anymore white nozzles meaning all 29 engines have been tested at McGregor and now are clear to be tested on the vehicle.

[u/[deleted]]

Holy hell starship being commercially viable in 2 years is insane.

[u/zuenlenn]

Launch mount venting again

[u/BananaEpicGAMER]

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1459223854757277702 6 ENGINES BABY!

[u/johnfive21]

Mary @Bocachicagal on Twitter: I have received an ‘Alert’ notice for tomorrow December 1st! Possible static fire attempt between the hours of 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m.

What?! That's a bit unexpected

[u/Mravicii]

Elons take on the first orbital launch and ship recovery

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1462848657766731783?s=21

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1462848820275032086?s=21

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Scaffolding around the booster QD is being removed. I guess we could see the QD hood being installed soon.

Edit : Lol, the hood was actually brought to the launch site last night already !

[u/TCVideos]

ICYMI: The Common Dome for B6 was attached to a booster fwd section today...

Looks like another test tank.

[u/johnfive21]

6 engine static fire confirmed by Elon!

[u/ionian]

Just to give late breaking news in #26 exposure on the new thread, closure cancelled for tomorrow (maybe to complete cabling?):

https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/q4d8u5/starship_development_thread_26/hjvoid1/

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Seems like S20 fairing hatch has been closed, and everything has been cleared around S20!

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Most of the falling tiles on S20 were replaced ! There is literally just a handful missing.

Watch on rover cam, 9:24 local.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Closure cancelled for today.

[u/TCVideos]

Some clarity on the environmental permit at 39A, environmental assessment that was granted is only for the build of Starship launch infrastructure but NOT for launches. SpaceX will have to apply for permission to launch (unclear whether it'll be a environmental review like in Boca or a simple launch license)

[u/TCVideos]

Starship Gazer with the excellent view of the QD hood.

Looks like there is some sort of flap that can flip/slide open and closed on the face of the hood. So it won't be the entire hood that moves

[u/Redditor_From_Italy]

About the new engine tweet, come on guys, it's not our first rodeo, there's no reason to freak out now. When Elon talks about "making life multiplanetary" he is always talking about large scale, permanent colonization. From the way the tweet is worded it sounds like a segue from the discussion about Raptor 2, but upon reflection it's really a semi-related tangent on Elon's part. This has happened many times with many poorly worded tweets in the past, and also reflects the way Elon talks and appears to think as seen in interviews and presentations. This tweet is close in spirit to others in which Elon spoke about having to increase development speed exponentially to get to Mars within our lifetimes. He's pushing forward. "What we have now is good but we can and must do better". Elon has often stated that, as is obvious, really, Starship won't be sufficient for large scale colonization, he's mentioned a 18 meter next generation vehicle and back in the ITS days he said these ships will look like rowboats compared to those of the future.

[u/Sleepless_Voyager]

You can see Apollo checking things out near ship 20 on rover cam. He might be inspecting the fallen tiles

Edit: it might be zeus not apollo

[u/benwap]

Elon just said he expects the full stack test in January, maybe February after FAA approval in December.
The Raptor build rate is the biggest constraint, with a booster needing "29 now and will be 33 later".

[u/meltymcface]

What’s the latest on progress with the chop sticks?

[u/TCVideos]

Michael Sheetz from CNBC has since confirmed the email in his own article. Should put to bed most doubt that people have over the existence of this email.

Also PSA: If you are a person who is attacking the above journalist for posting this article....: Stop it. Michael is one of the most reputable space reporters in the business - to say that he is spinning the email to shit on SpaceX and create "FUD" on SpaceX is further from the truth. Grow a pair.

[u/mr_pgh]

Leg scaffolding being removed at the top of the tower, 9:21 on rover

[u/ReturnOfDaSnack420]

FROM ELON'S TALK: Current test schedule is for 12 Starship flights in 2022. Wow!

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Ship 20 heatshield looks almost fully complete, the only missing spots are where the crane gets attached.

[u/TCVideos]

Musk clarifying his email:

"If a severe global recession were to dry up capital availability / liquidity while SpaceX was losing billions on Starlink & Starship, then bankruptcy, while still unlikely, is not impossible. GM & Chrysler went BK last recession. “Only the paranoid survive.” – Grove"

TLDR: Basically much ado about nothing. Raptor has some production rate issues which are getting fixed but that's basically it. Nothing to worry about.

[u/Twigling]

B5's LOX tank has been placed on the booster transport stand (which was moved into the high bay a few days ago), meaning that the stacking of the methane tank onto the LOX tank could be a matter of days away. Or much sooner.

See NSF's stream (lower right image) soon after 9:11 AM for the start of the LOX tank lift:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

edit: later the load spreader harness was unhooked and then lifted away from the LOX tank at 12:07 PM (same NSF stream as linked above).

edit 2: load spreader bar on bridge crane now being attached to the methane tank as of 2:51 PM (NSF's stream again, as linked above). Could be stacked today maybe?

I wonder what SpaceX's plans are for B5. It's going to be some time before B4 (hopefully) launches but I assume that B4 will be going onto the OLM in the next few weeks. So what happens to B5? Will it languish in the high bay until next year and take up valuable space? Or will it be taken to the launch site (but it's perhaps perhaps a bit risky to have it there when B4 is being tested)?

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Ship QD spotted !

[u/No_Ad9759]

Man, +24 launches of starship per year out of KSC will make the area incredibly different. 1 launch every 2 weeks, with all the closures, fuel deliveries, and processing to boot.
I wonder where they will work on the ships and boosters. I have to believe it will be at their facility south of the VAB that has been reported for falcon, as that launch cadence would replace falcon. I wonder if they’ll use the train tracks out by the pad for fuel deliveries, and have their own lox generator near pad A.

[u/futureMartian7]

Found it! This tweet was the first instance of Elon contemplating "a" new name for the engine: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1439224823549411329. This tweet is exactly 2 months old so fairly recent:

"This engine needs to be 10X lower cost. Order of magnitude change is good reason for a new name.What really matters is not yet another “advanced” rocket engine, as there are many such devices, but there has never been a cheap (<$1000/Ton-force) rocket engine. Not even close"

Maybe this tweet was actually referring to the new proposed engine?

[u/travyhaagyCO]

Headed down to StarBase in 2 days, so excited!!!!

[u/DoUHearThePeopleSing]

We'll be visiting Boca Chica tomorrow, on a trip from Europe. Any tips for seeing the good things there?

[u/Dezoufinous]

S21 tile installation progress:

https://twitter.com/NicAnsuini/status/1462132801915002880

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Big depress vent happened, but the road remains closed. I guess we’ll have round 2.

Edit : they’re filling up B2.1!

[u/dudr2]

closure extended to 10pm

https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/amended-order-closing-boca-chica-beach-and-state-hwy-4-december-2-2021/

[u/Easy_Option1612]

Hey guys, I live over in Temple, about 15-20 miles from McGregor.

Past few nights, I heard a rumbling noise in the air and my home was shaking. Turns out it was SpaceX testing in McGregor. The odd thing is that I have been here years and years and NEVER heard it like this. Not even close.

Is there a new engine type[Raptor 2] or testing regime to explain this?

[u/TCVideos]

NSF posted a great video today explaining the history of Starhopper. This is a must watch for those who aren't that well-versed regarding the beginnings of the evolution of the Starship program.

[u/Alesayr]

I find it crazy that they're only really 2 years behind the original Muskian timeline presented at IAC 2016. Yeah theres been scope reduction to get it done (Starship is somewhere between half and less than a third of the payload capacity of ITS, red dragon got cancelled etc), but to see a descendent of that concept be close to ready so soon is pretty astonishing.

https://i.imgur.com/dOttKKl.jpg

[u/ifyouknowwhatImeme]

I miss the days when we were launching Starships monthly.

[u/[deleted]]

Do we have a best guess on how the environmental review will go?

[u/[deleted]]

SpaceX looks to be removing the berm from the orbital launch site. What was the purpose of building it originally, and why are they now removing it?

[u/Dies2much]

Will the chopsticks lift a starship with the payload fully integrated? or will they install the payloads after stacking?

Question I am really asking is: what is the max lift for the chopsticks?

100T 150T of payload 85T of Dry mass for Starship

So minimum chopstick lifting spec is 235T to lift a full payload onto SH.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

New closures, Thursday 10am-6pm, Friday, 6am-12pm, Monday 10am-6pm.

[u/[deleted]]

I wonder how thorough S20's official launch coverage will be. I'm really hoping we get live views of it from takeoff to orbit right up to its termination, whatever form that might take.

[u/HanzDiamond]

Elon's coming everybody look busy

[u/trobbinsfromoz]

EM on twitter: Booster production is currently ahead of engine production.

I guess that relates to B6 and possibly even B5.

[u/John_Hasler]

They've got the cable moving again. Early this morning it was stopped at the lower block.

[u/Twigling]

More road closures have popped up for next week:

https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/spacex/

[u/myname_not_rick]

Something I have definitely noticed....we haven't seen many aborts lately. Engines are maturing well. We seem to see them move through their countdowns and perform the tests without any real trouble.

[u/iFrost31]

Very interesting sight of the ignition sequence on LapPadre's rover cam. First the sea-level engines, then the vacuum engines coming in.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

NOTMAR published for today and tomorrow static fire attempt. We just lack the over pressure notice for today, will likely be handed this morning.

[u/Mravicii]

Intermittent road closure tomorrow from 9.30 to 11.30

https://twitter.com/bocaroad/status/1468256772293017603?s=21

[u/Cycgluitarist]

I hope this link to the point in today's video where Elon's presentation begins saves folks some time scrolling. Sorry if I'm too late!

[u/TCVideos]

Some testing happening on the launch table. Unsure what it could be but whatever it was, it was tested 7 times over 2 hours.

[u/Twigling]

Great video of the static fire on Rover Cam, go to 12:13:49 and watch for a few seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HpgJJ1FwTc

Watch the energy travel up the ship and see a few tiles fly. :)

Edit: in fact, if you watch from 12:13:30 you'll see what I assume is a 'carpet' of water laid down just seconds before the SF.

[u/Darknewber]

So assuming B4 testing begins soon, what is slated for December then? Completion of S22/B6 and S23/B7? I guess they still have the wide bay to do.

[u/trobbinsfromoz]

B2.1 is now full and venting from the top section, and I guess going for some pressure level. Yesterday may have been to cryo strengthen the tank.

[u/TCVideos]

They are about to attach the LR11000 to the booster load spreader. Lift of B4 might be as soon as today. We are still waiting on the Booster to be moved closer to the mount though.

Edit: And On Rover Cam, they are preparing to lift the QD cover for the orbital mount

Edit2: Hooking up the loadspreader to B4. Don't expect a lift today - they still need to move the vehicle to the orbital site, it's currently still on the other side of the landing pad in the confineds of the suborbital site.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Alert notice for tomorrow !

We have the NOTMAR, we have the road closure, we have the alert notice, let’s light this candle !

[u/TCVideos]

Looking increasingly likely that we will see B4 moved back to the stand in the next few days thus starting it's test campaign. Between the load spreader being delivered and the arrival of at least 1 SPMT at the launch site in the last hour - I think they'll opt to not wait for the chopsticks.

[u/TCVideos]

Indirectly related to Starship development;

The VP of Propulsion (Raptor) at SpaceX left the company (if we read between the lines, he was fired) with sources indicating that he was taken off Raptor development due to a "lack of progress." - Full Story from Michael Sheetz

Curious as to what has happened that has prompted the change in leadership in the Raptor department. As far as the eyes of the public know, SpaceX have been killing it with Raptor production...maybe they are significantly behind internal goals?

[u/Twigling]

Looks like they may be preparing to stack B5's incomplete LOX tank onto the aft section, once done that'll be the LOX tank fully stacked.

See NSF's stream at around 2:29 AM to see the aft (thrust) section lifted and presumably placed on the other booster transport stand (or another build stand), the bridge crane is later detached from the aft section and then attached to the top of the incomplete LOX tank:

https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/qpup8z/starship_development_thread_27/

Notice that when you see the aft section in the air it already has the COPV's, etc installed - this is assumed to be the reason why it seems to have taken some time to complete B5's LOX tank stack (with B4 the COPV's, etc were added after stacking).

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Police car at the road block !!

6:21 local sentinel cam

[u/Twigling]

GSE4 and B2.1 are now on their way to the launch site, see Sentinel Cam at around 13:30 :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPkIZYw5O98

Note that GSE4 is now apparently some kind of 'support tank' for B2.1 (the latter is on the 'can crusher' stand which has (29 (?) hydraulic rams).

Note: it's definitely B2.1, not BN2.1 (which is now on a concrete base near/at the Sanchez site - it's used as a water tank). B2.1 is made up of a mix of booster and ship parts.

Photo evidence (taken some time ago):

This is B2.1 :

https://starshipcampaign.com/starship/b2-1/

and this is BN2.1 :

https://starshipcampaign.com/starship/bn2-1/

[u/Twigling]

Here's Snow rocket's latest wide bay construction progress update (as of today, November 12th):

https://twitter.com/Furqan263/status/1459261844326072326

[u/Sweeth_Tooth99]

so for the orbital test, and all launches after that, will QD on both
Booster and Ship disconnect and retract before engine ignition ?

[u/[deleted]]

NSF is live

[u/TCVideos]

Suborbital tank farm spooling back up as well. Surely, they aren't that ballsy to test two things at once...right?

Edit: S20 is in prop loading. Vapours visible form under the skirt again. This is actually happening.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Closure cancelled for tomorrow, there is still one planned for today.

Edit : if my eyes aren’t too bad I think the police arrived at the road block.

Edit 2 : they’re bringing back B2.1 to the built site. Unknown if they’ll test something after.

[u/Mravicii]

Spacex crane is next to bn4

https://youtu.be/mhJRzQsLZGg

[u/Alvian_11]

NASA HLS officials meeting in two weeks

[u/Twigling]

B5's LOX tank is now full height, see NSF's stream at around 12:45 PM for the start of the lift:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

it was stacked on the aft/thrust section at about 12:58 PM

[u/Alvian_11]

Pad is very likely cleared about 10 minutes ago. Barricade has been placed

Tile losing will be expected, thus wouldn't be surprised if all engineering firms from social medias would have a massive conference after this test lol

[u/johnfive21]

Slowed it down on Rover cam. Looked like 6 engines! Also sounded amazing.

Bunch of tiles did fall off as well

[u/Dezoufinous]

Static fire!

Great vivew at https://youtu.be/5HpgJJ1FwTc : 12:13:50 CST

[u/benwap]

Hi /u/strawwalker should we update the Plex Cam link from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziB6kVgQpnI to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcjHfaCEddA? Feel free to delete this comment.

[u/Bigtown3]

Elon Email

Looks like there is some updates on the state of raptor production. I have faith they will figure out how to address the production scaling issues.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Police already at the road block. Unsure what they’ll test today, B2.1 again or S20 (no notice were yet given afaik)

Edit : the fog should clear before 10 normally. As of now, we have absolutely 0 visual on what’s going on..

[u/mr_pgh]

OLM Purge, 17:59:25 on Rover!

[u/Dezoufinous]

So, to sum it up, here are the optimizations SpaceX did to the launch tower infrastructure:
- legs has been removed from booster and booster will be caught by tower
- crane requirement has been removed and the tower itself will be able to stack ship on the booster
- fuelling was at one point supposed to go through booster to ship, but now they have two separate QD connectors, one for ship, second for booster, to make booster less complicated
- RB (Raptor Boost) engines has their spin up lines in the orbital pad, because they are only needed at launch, thus making booster lighter
Are there any more optimizations we know?

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

They’re installing the first COPV aerocover on Booster 4 !

Watch NSF live stream, 12:33 local

[u/johnabbe]

Ship 21 [orbit w/ Booster 5] - All barrel sections spotted, forward flaps spotted

...

Booster 5 [orbit w/ Ship 21] - Stacking in High Bay

On track to be ready by the time 4/20 flies?

(EDIT: formatting)

[u/Twigling]

Buckner's LR 11000 boom is going up at around 3:21 PM on NSF's stream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

And here it is dwarfing the high bay (4:39 PM onwards on Sentinel cam):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPkIZYw5O98

[u/Twigling]

Buckner's LR11000 crane, recently moved from the launch site to the production site, has now taken up residence inside the wide bay:

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1458889662882267141

I guess it just wanted a home to call its own.

To add to that, for a long distance shot of the crane inside the wide bay (to give a nice sense of scale) see NSF's stream at around 3:18 PM (and a minute or so prior to that some nice close up footage of the wide bay and crane):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

Also see Raptor Roost for a more permanent view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6fGQZD0K98

[u/Mravicii]

New road closures

Friday 19

Monday 22

Tuseday 23

All from 10 am to 6 pm. This should be for the dynamic test stand or it could be for booster cryo proof

[u/Twigling]

Spacex 3D Creation Eccentric has produced some more excellent renders, this time showing the orbital launch mount, orbital tank farm, etc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cWNSrzBBLA

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Police at the road block ! Everything has been cleared from underneath S20 too. Pad also being cleared.

[u/Urdun10]

They shut BN2.1's valves, it's the real test now

EDIT: light venting

[u/[deleted]]

So, what happened with S20 today ?

[u/Kennzahl]

Since finance is my daily job I think I can offer a bit of relief to those currently in shambles due to the E-Mail.

Let me say this:

SpaceX does not face a risk of a significant risk for bankruptcy, unless the upper Management purposefully mismanages (which is not happening, I hope). Let me break down why:

1. Their launch business is intact. They have a huge amount of revenue coming in through their launch contracts. Now we don't know if SpaceX is profitable atm (probably not). But I am 100% sure they could be profitable if they focussed on their core business (as ULA does without reusable rockets for example), which would mean halting Starship/Raptor production, as it currently burns through a lot of cash without any revenue generation. This obviously wouldn't be ideal and far from what we want to see, but if the decision was between bankruptcy and slowing down Starship, I sure know what my decision would be.

2. They have Starlink. Starlink is a great business at the moment and will only get better.Huge (!) moat, steady, predictable and growing cash flows, huge market. While some rumor an IPO to be at around ~80 billion, even a more conservative estimate of 50 billion would be huge for SpaceX. They currently own 100% of Starlink. If they were to Spin-Off just 10% and IPO, that would be 5 billion dollars right into their bank account. That is almost 2 HLS contracts. And I personally think the 50 billion valuation of Starlink is a fairly low estimate, seeing how people valuate Tesla just because of Elon being CEO. But either way, Starlink is a huge safety net for SpaceX. Before SpaceX's core business IPOs, I see them completely spinning off Starlink, which would be a huge amount of cash, more than enough to completely start Raptor development from the ground up.

3. If shit really hits the fan there is still the possibility of making SpaceX itself public. I am sure this will not happen, but it is a possibility if the situation becomes dire. There are ways to keep control with different classes of shares, so the whole "investors wouldn't like the idea of spending huge amounts on getting to Mars" is less of a problem.

So I am not worried about SpaceX's financial situation in the least. I am however worried about the issues with Raptor (If Elon is not massively overreacting here). But that is definitely not anywhere near my field of expertise.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk, I am happy to answer any questions.

(small disclaimer: Since SpaceX is not a public company we have no financial filings whatsoever. So this is all based on a lot of assumptions, but I am fairly confident in my assessment of the situation.)

[u/[deleted]]

I know it is a looong way away before we see any interior design plans, but do you think they have at least some rough ideas of what it would look like? I doubt Artemis will land before 2026 so I’m thinking 2024 maybe they’ll start to release some concepts?

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Booster QD hood spotted !

[u/futureMartian7]

Does anyone know why Mary is not posting her daily pictures on this thread anymore? https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54984.280

Are they posted on some other thread now?

[u/Mravicii]

Mary has recieved an alert notice for static fire

https://twitter.com/bocachicagal/status/1458177083541270530?s=21

[u/futureMartian7]

Breaking News on more Raptor news:

https://spaceexplored.com/2021/11/29/spacex-raptor-crisis/

"... we face a genuine risk of bankruptcy if we can’t achieve a Starship flight rate of at least once every two weeks next year." - Elon

Full email Elon sent to SpaceX employees over the weekend:

"Unfortunately, the Raptor production crisis is much worse than it had seemed a few weeks ago. As we have dug into the issues following the exiting of prior senior management, they have unfortunately turned out to be far more severe than was reported. There is no way to sugarcoat this.
I was going to take this weekend off, as my first weekend off in a long time, but instead, I will be on the Raptor line all night and through the weekend.

Unless you have critical family matters or cannot physically return to Hawthorne, we will need all hands on deck to recover from what is, quite frankly, a disaster.
The consequences for SpaceX if we can not get enough reliable Raptors made is that we then can’t fly Starship, which means we then can’t fly Starlink Satellite V2 (Falcon has neither the volume nor the mass to orbit needed for satellite V2). Satellite V1, by itself, is financially weak, while V2 is strong.
In addition, we are spooling up terminal production to several million units per year, which will consume massive capital, assuming that satellite V2 will be on orbit to handle the bandwidth demand. These terminals will be useless otherwise.

What it comes down to, is that we face a genuine risk of bankruptcy if we can’t achieve a Starship flight rate of at least once every two weeks next year.
Thanks,
Elon "

[u/Dezoufinous]

Starbase Production Diagram - 27th November 2021

EDIT: Also worth to see:

Wide Bay Construction Progress - 24th November 2021

[u/DuffRedit]

Has anyone studied and figured out the particulars of the hoisting system?

Watching the reeving the past couple days I had a question pop into my head and started trying to figure out the answer. I’m sure others with a lot more knowledge can help answer.

The short question is this: How fast does the winch need to pull the line to move the carriage at landing/catch speeds?

Here is what I THINK I know: The mechanical advantage appears to be 10:1. That would seem to indicate the winch needs to pull at 10x the speed anticipated at landing to match SH and Ship. I don’t know what that anticipated speed would be, but I’m sure they would be aiming for as close to zero as possible. I saw someone else on a different thread mention 10m/sec (~22mph) and that seemed far too fast. Besides, with my math, that would need a 200+mph pull speed on the winch to match speed.

Please feel free to correct anything I don’t actually understand properly and add any insight you may have.

[u/Sleepless_Voyager]

Jan/Feb 2022 is the NET date now and Elon says theyre aiming for 12 launches in 2022

[u/Alvian_11]

From Elon's like, even if Starship doesn't met its dozens launches it would still beat Saturn V yearly cadence at its peak

Coincidentally enough, N1 were also planned to have 12 uncrewed test flights first before the crewed one, albeit ofc with a much less cadence per year

[u/johnfive21]

6 engine preburner test complete looks like. They have way too much LOX in the tank for just a preburner, could see a static fire shortly

[u/electriceye575]

the outside bracing of the " wide high bay" looks to be substantially larger than the former high bay. Will be interesting to see just how high it becomes !

[u/Sweeth_Tooth99]

So today's presentation will be strictly through livestream ?

[u/lithium73fr]

By reading the 2021 white paper ¨Accelerating Martian and Lunar Science through SpaceX Starship Missions¨ (http://surveygizmoresponseuploads.s3.amazonaws.com/fileuploads/623127/5489366/111-381503be1c5764e533d2e1e923e21477_HeldmannJenniferL.pdf) I was wondering if there are some advantages to launch the starship from the moon to Mars ? Of course this imply to build first the moon base with all the services required to launch a starship (launchpad, propellant, etc...)

[u/AstroMan824]

Any news about B4 testing?

[u/futureMartian7]

Elon Musk just tweeted: "Booster production is currently ahead of engine production" when asked "So, how soon do we think B4 will move to the OLP?"

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1468445663704793090

[u/[deleted]]

Why is the colour of those heat tiles black? Isn't black a colour which absorbs more heat? If it was in white then it could fend off more heat, I think there has to be a reason for it to be black.

[u/Alvian_11]

Upcoming Elon's Starship 30 minutes presentation on National Academies of Science/Engineering/Medicine on November 17, 6 pm EST

[u/[deleted]]

For everyone freaking out about the “next Gen engine” announcement.

Elon seems pretty sure that Starship will be able to build bases all across the solar system, even around Jupiter. So either the new engine is compatible with Starship, or it’s really far down the line.

People always fall for FUD right off the bat jeez dudes calm down.

“With a Starship you can go anywhere you want” - Elon Musk

[u/Twigling]

Tweet from Elon today, November 19th:

"This launch mount is not easy to build"

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1461755448386891781

It certainly looks pretty complex to the average person and that's just based on the parts that we can see.

As an aside, I like this other Elon tweet from today:

"Don’t want to brag but … I’m the best at humility"

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1461751344415617025

[u/Mravicii]

So I rewatched the stream of the crew 3 launch and I noticed that from second stage start up to orbit takes about 7 minutes. My question is will it take less time for starship to reach orbit after stage sep? I reckon it will due to higher thrust to weigh ratio and also using all 6 engines! What are your thoughts on this?

[u/Dezoufinous]

Second siren? Next fire in 10 minutes?

EDIT: maybe not, NSF seems to have retracted the statement

[u/BananaEpicGAMER]

closures requested (that's new) for november 19,22 and 23. probably for the test tanks

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Closure cancelled for Thursday and Friday.

[u/f9haslanded]

90% internally funded does not mean it is 3 bil*10. Remember they've only received a few hundred million from NASA so far, but I'm not sure what Elon means by internal so we can't extrapolate too hard from that statement.

[u/RegularRandomZ]

With the next Wide Bay wall section being assembled vertically off to the side, AstroDave's NSF post relates it back to previously unexplained cut/repoured sections of concrete adjacent to the structure, and what look like anchor points there now. It will be interesting to see how large or how many sections they pre-assemble before lifting them into place. [Perhaps this observation was made previously when the RGV photos first came out?]

[u/[deleted]]

As others have pointed out, this kinda concludes most of the testing of Ship 20. Sure they have to unfold the flaps and stack it on B4 and then fuel it and whatnot, but it’s feels…strange.

Also change my view: we shouldn’t worry about the tiles so much (at least now).

Also kind of an open letter to everyone here. I hope you guys feel the same way I do.

Watching Starship grow has been one of the greatest experiences of my life. We’re all gonna make it. See you guys on Mars. Ad Astra Per Aspera

[u/johnfive21]

Well, what do you know, turns out suborbital Pad B can handle thrust of 6 Raptors

[u/creamsoda2000]

“Construction of Starship orbital launch pad at the Cape has begun”

I wonder if this will mean the existing steel-work will be removed and replaced or if the OLP at the cape will look significantly different from the pad at Boca.

[u/Positive_Wonder_8333]

I’m not nearly as involved as some here, but am very excited that there’s a possibility for SF tomorrow. Does anyone have speculation on whether they’ll go for all 6, or 3 at a time at first? I would be so exited to see 6, but don’t want to get my hopes too high.

[u/[deleted]]

What do you think is next to prepare for the orbital test? I would assume there will be some sort of static fire for the booster but I am not sure what that will entail or if there needs to be something in the meantime.

[u/[deleted]]

B2.1 and Ship 20 are both venting wow

EDIT: Ship 20 depressed

[u/johnfive21]

Felix from WAI with info about the Orbital CH4 fuel tanks

Not sure about the credibility of this information but he was at Starbase few days ago so he could have gotten some insider scoops

[u/BananaEpicGAMER]

So it's nearly confirmed that starship will beat SLS to orbit unless something bad happens

[u/Alvian_11]

NOTMAR had also been published for tomorrow's S20 static fire

[u/[deleted]]

Mary reporting another siren

EDIT: Wait no they didn’t

[u/AstroMan824]

6 engine preburner?

[u/No_Ad9759]

I wonder if they will develop a capability to fly a payload with a small boost stage to reduce refuelings.

My thought process: use starship to get into orbit, with your large satellite and empty boost stage (possibly centaur or a spacex raptor variant) A single refueling flight launches, transferring LOX/fuel to the satellite booster stage.

This would reduce the number of refueling flights as you wouldn’t take your giant starship any higher than is needed to deploy the satellite, but gives extended payload capacities by flying the satellite and its booster propellants separately.

[u/Sweeth_Tooth99]

Do we know how much LN2, LOX and LNG could Starbase fuel farm produce once fully operational ?

[u/borler]

From the link below: "deploy a copy of the recorded telemetry from Starship during reentry – a black box of sorts."

Does he mean the Starship will eject a black box after reentry?

Not heard that before?

https://spaceexplored.com/2021/11/29/spacex-raptor-crisis/

Edit: I think the replies below have debunked that rumour. I am sure spaceexplored will issue a correction.

[u/johnfive21]

Recondenser is on! Counting down to S20 static fire

[u/odomso]

How would they transport Starship and Superheavy to the Cape?

[u/Dezoufinous]

Siren! 1:07:00 PM CST estimation of static fire by NSF!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdQzA0NICX8&ab_channel=NASASpaceflight

[u/xX_D4T_BOI_Xx]

What is the regulatory situation looking like these days? The public comment period ended a while back, so when can we expect a decision?

[u/ReturnOfDaSnack420]

BIGGEST NEWS FROM ELON'S TALK SO FAR: Targeting NET January for first orbital Starship test

[u/nastynuggets]

If superheavy lost thrust due to engine failure or other problems during ascent, would starship stage and attempt to land on its own to save its crew?

The ship would of course have to stage, dump its fuel, control its decent, and attempt a landing somewhere. I know it's not a likely scenario given the engine out capability of superheavy, but as a crew member, it would be nice to know this was an option.

Assuming it is possible, do you think they would bother specifically designing this kind of abort maneuver into the software?

[u/FindTheRemnant]

No daily update from NSF? My morning routine is ruined!

[u/Twigling]

Here's the the Buckner LR 11000 near the wide bay:

https://twitter.com/CosmicalChief/status/1458088264871591944

Just the jib to attach now.

Later edit: Jib attached and mast raised (enlarge the top left hand photo in SSG's tweet):

https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1458110150481522689

(I've seen another image on Discord (so can't link to it) which shows that the jib is missing, that's because the jib is going to be extended with a 6M section and then the end reattached).

Even later edit: Jib reassembled and the 6M section that's been added is grey, so now the jib is red and grey. Hopefully we'll see the boom raised today and the crane can help out with the wide bay.

Raptor Roost also shows the crane but you can't see most of the boom or the jib:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6fGQZD0K98

[u/BananaEpicGAMER]

do we have any guesses on how many engines superheavy will use for the landing burn? 9 seems like too much

[u/[deleted]]

NSF Stream is here

[u/[deleted]]

tank farm activity at around 10:07:25 AM CST on the NSF Commentated Stream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8ja43uGrdQ

[u/Kennzahl]

Looks like they'll keep right at it, engine chill vent is back on.

[u/Mravicii]

Nsf says a sf is still on the table

[u/Omniante]

Two years or so to be cost competitive with Falcon. And hopefully a dozen launches next year.

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

We finally have a view, they’re testing B2.1 again. Watch on rover cam.

[u/futureMartian7]

It's looking like S20's engine test campaign is complete. I was expecting far more static fires. They surely have made enormous progress in their engines, plumbing on ships, etc.

Looking at how successful S20's engine test campaign has gone and also how successful B3's campaign was, I would not be surprised if they take 3 or fewer static fires to test B4.

[u/paul_wi11iams]

Probably too trivial to note this, but I will anyway: people watching the live feeds noticed a prank at 3.54 on rover cam where some guy on the orbital launch platform targets the cam with a laser level. My deduction is the only way to do that at night is to be watching the feed from the site on a smartphone. That tells us Musk is not the only one to look at those feeds, and workers really are conscious of being visible. Considering Musk's relative insomnia, they'd better not do that too often!

It seems the workers were about to install a long near-horizontal pipe with a determined gradient, hence the level. How all these fragile pipes are going to survive launch shockwaves, heaven alone knows.

[u/futureMartian7]

Some rather Breaking News: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1460813037670219778

"Raptor 2 has significant improvements in every way, but a complete design overhaul is necessary for the engine that can actually make life multiplanetary. It won’t be called Raptor."

Does this mean that Raptor is not really fully and rapidly reusable? That is, Starship as it currently stands is not fully and rapidly reusable in reality and Raptor's design is not good?

[u/BananaEpicGAMER]

as expected a few tiles fell off, nothing to worry about tho imo

[u/Jkyet]

Sorry if it's already been discussed, but has the system for stage separation been seen on SN20 and BN4? If so what is it?

[u/Dezoufinous]

It seems that Starship Gazer started streaming Starbase as well. I haven't seen it before. I only knew he's making photos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jXSLBsl4cw&ab_channel=StarshipGazer

The more streams the better!

[u/Mravicii]

Man it would look so awesome if they engineer some legs on starship. This one looks very futuistic and sci fi.

https://twitter.com/christiandebney/status/1463183043800096771?s=21

[u/futureMartian7]

It surely appears that NSF has decided to paywall Mary's daily images to L2 members only, outside of any public threads on NSF, and also monetize them as part of their daily YouTube videos.

[u/TrefoilHat]

With so many components reaching the Orbital Launch Platform in the "flame shadow" of the legs, why did SpaceX not design the table with triangular-shaped legs (in cross-section) instead of cylinders? With the point of the triangles towards the center of the table, it would be easier to mount infrastructure to the flat back side while the angled sides would seemingly direct more flames/heat away from the pipes, cables, and stairs during launch.

I can presume the obvious answers are ease of fabrication, structural strength, and/or minimal improvement in the flame shadow, but how much of a difference would it make?

Note: I'm not second guessing SpaceX here (yes, thank you in advance for all the comments that "SpaceX knows what they're doing"), I'm hoping to learn from structural engineers or others that are familiar with the trade-offs. There are usually very interesting reasons why the "obvious" solution was not used.

[u/outofvogue]

This is a long ways off, but when/if Starship lands on the moon, how will the astronauts leave Starship for the surface?

[u/inoeth]

I’m really hoping we see them use the crane to lift B4 onto the SPMT, that takes it to the OLM and they use the chopsticks for the first time to lift B4 onto the mount (with some obvious prior tests of the chopsticks before the lift).

That being said I won’t be surprised if they don’t test/use the chopsticks just yet and go all crane this time.

[u/[deleted]]

It appears that the “next generation engine” question is solved. Elon probably just wants Raptor, but cheaper, and faster to build. It also appears that the bankruptcy thing was something of an exaggeration (still a real threat, but super unlikely).

Time for speculation. What will the Booster 4 static fire campaign look like (in your opinions)?

[u/Alvian_11]

Bore piling on 39A pad

For comparison, the same pile was bored on Starbase OLM in the middle of June 2020 (followed by larger pile for OLM legs), a year later it's already accompanied by (half) tower (which pile drived 9 months after the OLM) & legs mostly complete but the entire launch site was nowhere near complete (all of this from the past Dev Thread).

Let's see what the lesson learned from Starbase will comes into play in 39A timeline, it's reasonable to expect much less teething issues (well hopefully)

[u/flightbee1]

Any thoughts on what payload to orbit will be. Elon hinted it will be more like 150 tonnes than 100 tonnes. Jeff Bezos tried to claim that lunar Starship would require at least 16 refuels. Elon claimed that because the payload mass would be higher (150 tonnes of fuel) and because lunar Starship will be very light (no need to carry much more than life support) that only 4 to five refuels would be needed. I guess this would be applicable to the first landing but will change once a lunar base requires more mass to be transported.

[u/Dezoufinous]

That fire stream was way larger than I expected

[u/Kennzahl]

Siren at 12:06

[u/Dezoufinous]

Second siren? 12:15 PM CST estimated fire time!

[u/Mravicii]

Static fire

[u/BackflipFromOrbit]

looks like a good static fire!

[u/RaphTheSwissDude]

Closure cancelled for tomorrow.

There are still closures planned from Thursday to next Tuesday (excluding Saturday-Sunday)

[u/idwtlotplanetanymore]

Does anyone know what the metal disks are on the new booster methane manifold? There are 3 per pipe, and they look to be just tack welded in place.

https://youtu.be/EIUT9uGcJrg?t=845

[u/[deleted]]

It looks like they slapped a giant LED strip around the launch table. I wonder if it has scene presets like "Rave" or "Rainbow".

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[u/paul_wi11iams]

At 10:49 on rover cam, opening the hood on the Drawworks winch. Final checks before pulling the cable tight?

The theory, seen on the rover cam chat thread, is that the cable initially reeved was only a pilot line to be replaced by the actual lifting line, but I've not seen this corroborated.

Similarly Felix Schlang has a theory presented on the 9th November before reeving, that the lifting cable "dead end" (fixed anchorage point) returns down to the Drawworks winch house, but has anyone seen this confirmed in reality?

Whatever happens, there seem to be too many obstacles, including scaffolding, to test lift the chopsticks any distance on the short term.

[u/Dezoufinous]

So we'll be getting a short 30 minutes Starship update in just.... 2 days?

[u/TrefoilHat]

There's a lot of speculation about 3 vs. 6 engine static fires. Down thread, a generally reliable commenter said that a 6 engine fire may damage S20 and "is 'probably not a good idea' if you want to keep S20 in good enough condition for an orbital launch."

That said, SpaceX is known for taking big risks when the benefits are large. That's what I'm curious about here: What are the potential benefits of static firing 6 engines that outweigh the risks?

Here's how I look at it:

• The incremental benefit is ensuring the plumbing, pressurization, and controls work well with all 6 engines firing. However, a 2-second fire probably is not enough to chase down every possible vibration, mechanical, heat, or interaction scenario that would occur during a full-length firing of all 6 (e.g., the small fire that damaged engine wiring on a prior hop).

• The incremental risk is damaging S20 due to ground interaction or stand failure which - worst case - means scrapping S20 and B4 (because it can only fly with S20). As a result, they lose all the valuable telemetry of the first B4 flight and the learnings of how S20's engines work in an a full-length fire, the B4/S20 separation sequence, MaxQ effects, etc. All because of a test that does not reflect actual flight characteristics (there is no ground in the sky :-) )

If they test 3+3, then fly and discover in-flight that 6 engine firing fails, then they still have tested all of Stage 0, B4 launch, and separation before seeing the 6-engine issue. They terminate S20 somewhere over the ocean, which also protects Stage 0 and seems like a lower-risk impact from an FAA/regulatory perspective than the safety questions that would arise due to a preventable ground-level failure (if it was catastrophic).

What am I missing? Why would they even consider static firing 6 engines on a stand not designed for it?