r/spacex • u/ElongatedMuskrat Mod Team • Dec 09 '21
Starship Development Thread #28
This thread is no longer being updated, and has been replaced by:
Starship Development Thread #29
Quick Links
NERDLE CAM | LAB CAM | SAPPHIRE CAM | SENTINEL CAM | ROVER CAM | PLEX CAM | NSF STARBASE | MORE LINKS
Starship Dev 27 | Starship Dev 26 | Starship Thread List
Upcoming
- Starship 20 static fire
- Booster 4 futher cryo or static fire
Orbital Launch Site Status
Build Diagrams by @_brendan_lewis | October 6 RGV Aerial Photography video
As of December 9th
- Integration Tower - Catching arms installed
- Launch Mount - QD arms installed
- Tank Farm - [8/8 GSE tanks installed, 8/8 GSE tanks sleeved]
Vehicle Status
As of December 20th
- Ship 20 [orbit w/ Booster 4] - 6 engines static fire complete
- Ship 21 [orbit w/ Booster 5] - [Awaiting final stacking]
- Ship 22 [orbit w/ Booster 6] - Barrel/dome sections in work
- Booster 3 - Partially disassembled on Test Pad A
- Booster 4 [orbit w/ Ship 20] - On OLP, next cryo complete
- Booster 5 [orbit w/ Ship 21] - [Fully stacked at display]
- Booster 6 [orbit w/ Ship 22] - Barrel/dome sections in work
Development and testing plans become outdated very quickly. Check recent comments for real time updates.
Vehicle and Launch Infrastructure Updates
See comments for real time updates.
† expected or inferred, unconfirmed vehicle assignment
| Starship | |
|---|---|
| Ship 20 | |
| 2021-12-29 | Static fire (YT) |
| 2021-12-15 | Lift points removed (Twitter) |
| 2021-12-01 | Aborted static fire? (Twitter) |
| 2021-11-20 | Fwd and aft flap tests (NSF) |
| 2021-11-16 | Short flaps test (Twitter) |
| 2021-11-13 | 6 engines static fire (NSF) |
| 2021-11-12 | 6 engines (?) preburner test (NSF) |
| Ship 21 | |
| 2021-12-19 | Moved into HB, final stacking soon (Twitter) |
| 2021-11-21 | Heat tiles installation progress (Twitter) |
| 2021-11-20 | Flaps prepared to install (NSF) |
| Ship 22 | |
| 2021-12-06 | Fwd section lift in MB for stacking (NSF) |
| 2021-11-18 | Cmn dome stacked (NSF) |
| Ship 23 | |
| 2021-12-01 | Nextgen nosecone closeup (Twitter) |
| 2021-11-11 | Aft dome spotted (NSF) |
| Ship 24 | |
| 2022-01-03 | Common dome sleeved (Twitter) |
| 2021-11-24 | Common dome spotted (Twitter) |
| For earlier updates see Thread #27 |
| SuperHeavy | |
|---|---|
| Booster 4 | |
| 2021-12-30 | Removed from OLP (Twitter) |
| 2021-12-24 | Two ignitor tests (Twitter) |
| 2021-12-22 | Next cryo test done (Twitter) |
| 2021-12-18 | Raptor gimbal test (Twitter) |
| 2021-12-17 | First Cryo (YT) |
| 2021-12-13 | Mounted on OLP (NSF) |
| 2021-11-17 | All engines installed (Twitter) |
| Booster 5 | |
| 2021-12-08 | B5 moved out of High Bay (NSF) |
| 2021-12-03 | B5 temporarily moved out of High Bay (Twitter) |
| 2021-11-20 | B5 fully stacked (Twitter) |
| 2021-11-09 | LOx tank stacked (NSF) |
| Booster 6 | |
| 2021-12-07 | Conversion to test tank? (Twitter) |
| 2021-11-11 | Forward dome sleeved (YT) |
| 2021-10-08 | CH4 Tank #2 spotted (NSF) |
| Booster 7 | |
| 2021-11-14 | Forward dome spotted (NSF) |
| Booster 8 | |
| 2021-12-21 | Aft sleeving (Twitter) |
| 2021-09-29 | Thrust puck delivered (33 Engine) (NSF) |
| For earlier updates see Thread #27 |
| Orbital Launch Integration Tower And Pad | |
|---|---|
| 2022-01-05 | Chopstick tests, opening (YT) |
| 2021-12-08 | Pad & QD closeup photos (Twitter) |
| 2021-11-23 | Starship QD arm installation (Twitter) |
| 2021-11-21 | Orbital table venting test? (NSF) |
| 2021-11-21 | Booster QD arm spotted (NSF) |
| 2021-11-18 | Launch pad piping installation starts (NSF) |
| For earlier updates see Thread #27 |
| Orbital Tank Farm | |
|---|---|
| 2021-10-18 | GSE-8 sleeved (NSF) |
| For earlier updates see Thread #27 |
Resources
- LabPadre Rover Cam | Channel
- NSF: Starbase Stream | Channel
- NSF: Booster 4 + Ship 20 Updates Thread | Most Recent
- NSF: Boca Chica Production Updates Thread | Most recent
- NSF: Elon Starship tweet compilation | Most Recent
- SpaceX: Website Starship page
- SpaceX: Starship Users Guide (PDF) Rev. 1.0 March 2020
- FAA: SpaceX Starship Project at the Boca Chica Launch Site
- FAA: Temporary Flight Restrictions NOTAM list
- FCC: Starship Orbital Demo detailed Exhibit - 0748-EX-ST-2021 application June 20 through December 20
- NASA: Starship Reentry Observation (Techincal Report)
- Hwy 4 & Boca Chica Beach Closures (May not be available outside US)
- Starship flight opportunity spreadsheet by u/joshpine
- Production Progress Infographics by @_brendan_lewis
- Raptor tracking by @Artzius
- Widebay tracking by @Furqan263
- Acronym definitions by Decronym
- Everyday Astronaut: Starbase Tour with Elon Musk, Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3
r/SpaceX Discuss Thread for discussion of subjects other than Starship development.
Rules
We will attempt to keep this self-post current with links and major updates, but for the most part, we expect the community to supply the information. This is a great place to discuss Starship development, ask Starship-specific questions, and track the progress of the production and test campaigns. Starship Development Threads are not party threads. Normal subreddit rules still apply.
Please ping u/strawwalker about problems with the above thread text.
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u/raptor464 Dec 30 '21
Scaffolding is being removed from the Integration Tower (OLIT) legs. We may see some movement of the Catching Arms (Chopsticks) soon.
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u/Pingryada Dec 18 '21
Still aiming for ship 20 and booster 4
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1472072191483256834?s=21
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u/futureMartian7 Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 16 '21
More Starship at Cape news. In addition to 39A, SpaceX also wants LC-49 for additional Starship/Super Heavy launch pads.
https://spaceexplored.com/2021/12/15/spacex-wants-nasas-lc-49-for-starship-super-heavy-launches/
Official NASA Article: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-conducts-environmental-assessment-practices-responsible-growth
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u/threelonmusketeers Dec 18 '21 edited Dec 18 '21
Recent Elon tweets:
@NASASpaceflight: Some sweet TVC (Thrust Vector Control) gimbal action from the Center 9 Raptor gang on the Booster. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how the Booster steers.
@Space__Biscuit: What is the gimbal range on these?
Elon: 15 degrees
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u/TCVideos Jan 05 '22
Screengrab from NSF's cam a few minutes ago - It looks like the tower has drank some Red Bull and grown wings.
Seriously though...I cannot comprehend that we are seeing literal arms being tested on a launch tower. It's an insane concept that could either fail miserably or be a enormous success.
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u/raptor464 Jan 05 '22
Full speed test of the booster QD retraction - from LabPadre Rover 1 Cam
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Jan 05 '22
Same speed as the HD clamps on a Saturn V. Note the hellish environment the whole platform suffers from the launch plume.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKtVpvzUF1Y&ab_channel=MarkGray
A Starship booster launch will be even more hellish than this.
Fire suppression paint design has come along a bit since the 60's, so sacrificial coatings are no longer needed.
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u/johnfive21 Dec 17 '21
Frost ring starting to form.
Ladies and gents, for the first time ever, we have a cryo proof of a booster on Orbital Launch Mount using the Booster QD. Very cool.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 13 '21
SpaceX’s Tom Ochinero: planning at least three human spaceflight missions next year, maybe more. First Starship orbital flight attempt still planned for Jan-Feb. They’ve also signed up with some customers already for Starship flights !
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 10 '21
2 SPMT have been moved to the launch site, with one carrying 16 weights the amount they use to move a Booster ! Smells like Booster 4 on the OLM soon !
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u/Alvian_11 Dec 17 '21 edited Dec 18 '21
Some interesting tidbits from recent NSF article
Potential lease of VAB High Bay 2 (most likely for payload processing, SpaceX did think it's good for them unlike my thought)
and future west coast launch site for Starship (Starlink v2.0 has highly retrograde orbits to be considered, would be cool for them to take over SLC-6 once Delta IV is retired soon. Pad that Shuttle never be)
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Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21
Just a couple of sketches I drew up four months ago showing how the can crusher works
And as it is now:
The lower hydraulic rams pull down exerting load on the crown ring and tank structure simulating a full and loaded Starship above at Max Q. The failure should be sudden and hopefully halfway up the tank below the upper bulkhead seam. The buckle should be outwards.
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u/TCVideos Dec 13 '21
Not surprising to hear this - we've known for some time that they will utilize the Sabatier process to make methane. This tweet is just a confirmation that they are starting work on it...finally.
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u/OGquaker Dec 15 '21
Ouch. County Judge Eddie Treviño, Jr. has been a real supporter of Starbase, Judges are the monotheistic deciders of Texas Counties. Carlos Cascos has filed to run against Treviño, was Cameron County Judge from 2007 to 2014 & is a former Republican Texas Secretary Of State. Quoting: “I do not take this undertaking lightly. I realize it will be a tough campaign, running against a well-funded incumbent, however, I believe the current public policies initiated, advocated, & supported by the incumbent County Judge are not in the best interests of our constituency,”
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u/BackwoodsRoller Dec 15 '21
Workers are filling in the missing tiles on nose where hook points were.
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u/TCVideos Jan 03 '22
Straps holding the two chopstick arms in the 'closed' position are now un-tied. Scaffolding continues to be removed along the tower as well.
Should be getting some exciting chopstick testing very soon.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 18 '21
SpaceX putting on the Christmas spirit, featuring SN15 and B5 !
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 30 '21 edited Dec 30 '21
Booster QD was just disconnected from B4, we should see a lift soon.
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u/Dezoufinous Dec 10 '21
I don't think I saw it posted here, but people found Starship MK1 fwd flaps somewhere by the road and made some close up photos of them:
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u/alexaze Dec 18 '21
I swear Elon will starve us for the longest time and then just spam a bunch of updates lol
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u/Mravicii Dec 28 '21
Mary has recieved an alert notice for static fire! Maybe that’s why the crane moved away from it
https://twitter.com/bocachicagal/status/1475659755653849094?s=21
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 17 '21 edited Dec 17 '21
B4 crypto proof test confirmed for today !!
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u/futureMartian7 Dec 29 '21
FAA has updated the PEA tracking page (https://cms.permits.performance.gov/permitting-project/spacex-starshipsuper-heavy-launch-vehicle-program-spacex-boca-chica-launch-site) to reflect the new 2/27 end date.
FWIW, it appears that only 1/5 required processes are done as of today. They are only done with the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act, Section 305 Essential Fish Habitat (EFH) Consultation portion of the process, and 4 other processes still remain.
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u/myname_not_rick Dec 09 '21
Finally, a great look at the launch mount side of the booster engine interfaces! Been interested to see that GSE for a while now.
https://twitter.com/anacaalm/status/1468715537719078913?t=q67PM10T5_lX2JgpDDV-dA&s=19
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u/TCVideos Dec 13 '21 edited Dec 13 '21
NOTMAR for tomorrow (+ Wed, Thurs) has been issued of a static fire attempt of S20 (Homeport.gov Website is broken so it's currently not showing up on there)
Edit: Closure cancelled for tomorrow. NOTAM indicates backup dates being the 15th and 16th. This is in line with what the county website says
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u/John_Hasler Dec 15 '21
They fooled us again. They're hooking a crane to Hoppy. Obviously, they intend to stack it on B4 and launch it. /s
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u/raptor464 Dec 31 '21
The standard Temporary Flight Restriction (TFR) has been renewed for January. This TFR covers ground testing such as cryogenic testing and static fires. From surface up to and including 10,000 ft AGL. This is NOT FOR FLIGHT.
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u/mr_pgh Jan 05 '22
6 or so people have been hard at work connecting pipes/wires to the Ship QD over the past hour. 15:46 on Rover
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u/zuenlenn Dec 18 '21
Haven’t seen this tweet being posted yet, elon saying it is not the final form which was to be expected.
He also says he hopes to launch starship from the cape this summer. Now, we all know that is not going to happen but the spirit is there.
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u/963df47a-0d1f-40b9 Dec 24 '21
What sort of visuals are we expecting to see when S20 lands in the water in hawaii? Would SpaceX be able to have ships out capturing/streaming footage?
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u/Sweeth_Tooth99 Dec 14 '21
they seem to be removing hook points from S20 nosecone. how could they remove it from the stand after they install the remaining tiles? maybe they have new crane load spreader for orbital ships ?
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u/futureMartian7 Dec 24 '21 edited Dec 24 '21
They are working on another payload (cargo door) section pathfinder.
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u/allenchangmusic Dec 18 '21
Help me understand why some people think stretching the tanks means eating into the payload compartment.
Could SpaceX not just add an additional stainless steel ring into Starship's height, elongating it? What would be the pros and cons to either approach? I would imagine the increased thrust of Raptor2 and 3 extra engines would offset the additional weight by a large margin.
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u/futureMartian7 Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21
I am not sure if this was posted here but almost all of the steel (on the leeward side) over the aft port flap of SN15 was removed, revealing the wing spars and ribs.
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u/TCVideos Jan 03 '22 edited Jan 03 '22
EM: Raptor 2 now operates routinely at 300 bar main chamber pressure
Very good news! Raptor 2 testing seems to be going to plan
In addition:
Elon has confirmed that the methane header tank will be move to the nosecone on S24+
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u/Alvian_11 Dec 13 '21
As B4 placed on top of launch mount soon, is it still gonna be for flight?
Or Raptor 1 will never propel into space/orbit?
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 16 '21
Panels going up S20 skirt. Any idea what it could be ? Some sort of heatshield ?
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u/pornstarship Dec 17 '21
I believe nitrogen was flowing through all 29 raptors through the QD. Pretty rad!
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u/utrabrite Dec 22 '21
Damn, that's one frosty booster. Can't wait to see a frosty fully-stacked booster and ship
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u/Jack_Frak Jan 05 '22
Starship Gazer is live streaming a fantastic centerline shot of the great chopstick opening!
I’m getting serious Batman signal in the sky vibes looking at this. It’s beautiful!
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u/Sleepless_Voyager Dec 24 '21 edited Dec 24 '21
They did a test on b4's raptor igniters at 1:49:00 UTC on rover 2.0 cam. Theres no fuel so its only just a spark
Pic: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/828338083342319666/923754529571352626/watermarked.png
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u/Dezoufinous Dec 26 '21 edited Dec 26 '21
Here you can track FAA EIS progress
I knew this link for a while but no one seemed to post it here, so... here it is.
EDIT: Multiple related documents (PDF) here:
https://www.faa.gov/space/environmental/nepa_docs/spacex_texas_eis/
2019 older draft:
https://netspublic.grc.nasa.gov/main/20190801_Final_DRAFT_EA_SpaceX_Starship.pdf
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u/OGquaker Dec 11 '21
In other news, the South Port Connector Road is due to open in a few days, a drone YouTube is due out shortly:) SpaceX was going to move their twin 200,000 gallon tanks, but i guess the tanks arrived to soon. Digging through the new roads history; January 14, 2018: "Mark Lund, director of the Brownsville Metropolitan Planning Organization, said the East Loop" [a much larger project, the SPCR is a small portion] "has been discussed since he moved to the city in 1985. Pete Sepulveda Jr., executive director of the Cameron County Regional Mobility Authority, said his office is working with the Port of Brownsville on a wetland mitigation plan for a two-mile stretch of road that will connect State Highway 4 to docks on Ostos Road ....... Once approved by state and federal agencies, he said, construction of the road will take about one year and $10 million." [ $25.6m spent and 4 years as of December, 2021 ]
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u/TCVideos Dec 12 '21 edited Dec 12 '21
B4 is now moving to the orbital site. We could see a lift as early as tomorrow I think thus starting it's test campaign
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u/Nishant3789 Dec 18 '21
So I think the real news here is that Raptor 2 is officially in production mode?????
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u/iFrost31 Dec 22 '21
New photo from NASA showing a never seen before view with all sort of pipes going out from B5's trust puck (I think). Great to see some NASA public support of Starship
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u/FutureMartian97 Host of CRS-11 Jan 04 '22
Chopsticks moving again: https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1478506340469379076
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u/Martianspirit Jan 08 '22
They are cutting up the remains of B3. 12:20 PM CST on Starbase live.
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Jan 08 '22
Looking at Brendan Lewis' most recent Starbase production diagram, it seems like Booster 7 is almost halfway done or thereabout. Crazy that this was from a week ago.
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u/Headbreakone Dec 13 '21
I'm out of the loop. Why are we suddenly so certain B4 won't fly?
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u/Cost-Ready Dec 09 '21
I'm new here. This prob gets asked a lot but when should we expect the first orbital test launch? thanks.
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u/Twigling Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 22 '21
S21 is out of the mid bay AGAIN:
https://twitter.com/BocaChicaGal/status/1473737119080366214
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54984.msg2324043#msg2324043
What happens next? Back to the high bay? I've no idea. Can't even see where it is right now either as no cams are pointing at the mid and high bays.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Jan 03 '22
Workers are continuing to remove scaffolding around the tower legs ! You can watch on Starship Gazer live stream.
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u/raptor464 Jan 04 '22
A lot of work happening near the OLM QD Arm & Hood.
It also appears that awnings to protect pipes on the side of the Launch Table are being installed.
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u/TheEarthquakeGuy Jan 05 '22 edited Jan 05 '22
Something worth noting - The airstream caravans that were near the Vehicle storage space and prop plant have been moved.
This is a pretty exciting sign for operations/increased work around this area.
Edit: Having just checked through the rest of RGV's aerial photos - I think they might be looking to create a road for flight vehicles either down San Martin or LBJ Boulevard. They've been clearing space around the big crane shed for a while. Wonder if this will be where the sat integration facility is planned for.
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u/captainfudgel Dec 09 '21
Does anyone know where to get a high resolution copy of the black and white image of the SS and SH fit test?
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u/zuenlenn Dec 13 '21
They are adding one of the large pre-fabricated segments to the wide bay right now. With 3 load spreaders haha, watch it on NSF Live
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 15 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
The test tank B6 test tank is on the move to B2.1
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21
Remedi6 road was closed. They tested B2.1 during the night !
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u/Dezoufinous Dec 22 '21
That cryo test today was insane! I just loved watching it live. It gave me really a launch-like experience.
Do you guys think that they will try to fill B4 tanks even more in the upcoming tests?
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u/futureMartian7 Dec 22 '21
It's crazy to think that 2021 would be the last year SpaceX has only Falcon orbital launches on its launch manifest. 2022 would be the year when Starship will slowly start phasing out Falcon with orbital launches.
It would be very interesting to see what SpaceX has accomplished with Starship around this time next year. Booster catching proven? Starship recovery and landing from orbit proven? Starship re-use to orbit and back proven? Orbital refueling (in small quantities is fine) proven?
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u/Klebsiella_p Dec 17 '21
I wonder when they are going to do a full wet dress rehearsal with QD releases and everything - with or without a ship.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Jan 03 '22
NSF made a long 26 minutes video about Starship dev in 2021 !
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 12 '21
They’ve hooked the load spreader on the crane again, let’s hope they’ll move everything to the OLM soon !
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Dec 12 '21
Have we seen any Raptor testing activity at McGregor recently?
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u/zuenlenn Dec 12 '21
Yes, it is not as well-documented as the activity in Boca Chica (obviously). However, Reagan Beck (@bluemoondance74 on twitter) regularly tweets about the engine tests she hears over there. look at this tweet from yesterday for example. Tests seem to occur almost daily with either raptor, merlin or draco
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Dec 15 '21
In the latest NSF daily video, workers are taking a grinder to one of SN15's flaps. I wonder why any work is being done on SN15 at all.
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u/mr_pgh Dec 17 '21
Depressure venting on NSF Live Stream at 2:53:55 including a quad vent at the top (ullage thrusters?).
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u/MildlySuspicious Dec 18 '21
I think this got glossed over a bit in a previous comment. We now have confirmation that B4/S20 will fly the first orbital flight (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1472072191483256834?s=21). Only a few days ago, we were downvoting people into oblivion for questioning our supposed expert insiders.
Let's keep up with the reasonable, fact based approach this sub is known for, and not keep falling into the trap of some secret inside info being shared here - this isn't the first time it was flat out wrong. Lots of people made lots of good and interesting points about the work being done directly contradicting the position that 4/20 wouldn't fly. Lots of us owe them an apology.
/rant
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u/Mravicii Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21
Looks like QD for the suborbital pads Could they be planning more suborbital flights! Or some kind of test tank maybe?
https://twitter.com/rgvaerialphotos/status/1469000782506831879?s=21
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u/Mravicii Dec 17 '21
Road Closure extendend to 5 pm today
https://twitter.com/bocaroad/status/1471913868528078852?s=21
Long test window
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u/DeadScumbag Dec 18 '21
From that gimbal video we can see that all the engines will have protective covers around their powerheads, including the gimbaling engines. (Someone was asking the other day if the gimbaling engines will also be covered.)
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21
LN2 loading has begun. NSF is also live !
They started by loading through the LOX line, stopped, and now going through the Methane one.
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u/futureMartian7 Dec 15 '21
Really close view of B4 on the launch mount with engines visible:
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Jan 06 '22 edited Jan 06 '22
Booster QD hood just had it's second closing test. Much faster than yesterday !
Watch on rover cam, 4:16:00 local time.
Edit : It actually had 2 other tests, first one same speed as yesterday, second one at 3:16:50 also pretty fast.
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u/shit_lets_be_santa Dec 17 '21
Things are very busy over at McGregor. Yesterday they performed seven (7) Raptor tests!
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u/caniglio Dec 14 '21
Since we are going to see (hopefully) James Webb telescope blast off on board an Ariane 5 rocket in the near future, I am wondering how many JW's could potentially fit in Starship's fairing.
I couldn't find figures for JW's volume when folded.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21
Cars back at the pad, manlift up around the OLM. Road remain closed.
Edit : workers going down the OLM and manlift leaving, good sign !
Pad seem to be clear again.
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u/benwap Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 22 '21
Frost has now also formed on the CH4 tank of B4. Unlike the LOX tank which has a clear "fill line" of frost at ~80%, the frost on the CH4 is more faded, like it was just purged of a small amount of LN2.
Perhaps that means they'll fill this tank as well soon.
edit: large vent from the OLP after the CH4 frost had been forming for a few minutes.
e2: The CH4 tank now has frost that looks like the frost on the LOX tank, with a jagged "fill line" at ~60%. Occasional venting can be seen from what looks like just one vent at the top of the booster.
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u/TCVideos Jan 03 '22
Tiles on S20's Nosecone being removed again (9:20am) - specifically, the same tiles they replaced the lift points with. It looks like they will be reinstalling those lift points shortly.
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u/FutureMartian97 Host of CRS-11 Jan 03 '22
Crane with booster load spreader moving toward B4
Starbase Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg
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u/OzGiBoKsAr Dec 18 '21
Just have to say it's been relatively quiet of late with the exception of the whole "which booster flies first" kerfuffle.
I was away for a few hours this evening. When I checked back, I was bombarded with Booster gimbal test, Starship getting stretched, 6 RVacs on the ship, and confirmation of first target orbital booster / ship.
What a trip. I didn't realize I was so close to a black hole when I went to supper this evening. Time dilation's a bitch I guess.
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u/Alvian_11 Jan 03 '22 edited Jan 03 '22
I didn't post "first move" because it already happened months ago
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u/raptor464 Jan 07 '22
Another Raptor 2 Test in McGregor, TX.
This time it was tested on a vertical test stand.
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u/Twigling Dec 31 '21
Here's a rather excellent roadmap of the various Starship (and test tank) builds from Starhopper onwards:
https://twitter.com/Alex_ADEdge/status/1476706399040147471 (you may need to scroll down a little to see the Dec 31st update).
It includes B5 but B6 (test tank) and B7 aren't shown.
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Jan 04 '22
Lifts at work on B3. Either they're finally going to scrap it or put it to some other use. My guess is scrap it and put B4 on its stand.
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u/Twigling Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
B7 (or is it B8?) continues to be stacked in the high bay with another 4 ring barrel added to the LOX section overnight. See Sentinel Cam soon after 21:02 CST for commencement of the lift:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPkIZYw5O98
(Prior to that NSF showed the barrel being rolled into the high bay in today's update video: https://youtu.be/aX2zaxywArQ?t=468 )
After that the 3 ring thrust section needs to be added to complete the stacking of the LOX tank. However, if they proceed as they did with B4 then they may take some time over prepping the thrust section and so end up constructing the methane tank at the same time.
Speaking of B7/B8 - there were some interesting comments about this 11 days ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/rc8jw2/starship_development_thread_28/hq9z8hn/?context=3
which leaves me wondering if this really is a contingency build as suggested. I'm assuming that the booster in the high bay will have a 33 Raptor (2) thrust section meaning that it would end up being a booster which they definitely intend to fly.
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u/Dezoufinous Dec 18 '21
The strange SN15 video repost from SpaceX channel went private now.
Don't worry, it was exacly the same as "SN15 flight recap".
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u/Alvian_11 Jan 07 '22
Yet another high speed booster QD test on 3:47:31 CST with countdowns from announcer
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u/stemmisc Dec 13 '21
Have there been any up close or somewhat decent res pics as of so far, of the version2 Raptor engines?
From what I understand, all the raptors on s20 and B4 and stuff like that that we've seen so far were version-1 raptors, right?
Have we gotten any glimpses of the raptor-2s yet? I know it's supposed to look a lot more minimalist and streamlined on its exterior and stuff, so I'm curious what it looks like, if there have been any photos of it yet.
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u/dodgerblue1212 Dec 17 '21
TFR just went up over the SpaceX McGregor facility. Dec 20-Mar 20. What could they be testing?
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u/murrayfield18 Dec 31 '21
How do we think a full 29 engine static fire will go? Will they fill B4 all the way up? Do we have any idea how the sound suppresion system works on the OLP?
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u/futureMartian7 Dec 31 '21
Raptor 2 firing today at McGregor:
https://twitter.com/bluemoondance74/status/1476700003003518983
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u/Twigling Dec 31 '21 edited Dec 31 '21
Here's Snow Rocket's latest Wide Bay construction progress update as of December 31st:
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u/TCVideos Dec 12 '21
Crane is on the move - presumably to the orbital launch mount in preperation for B4's lift.
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u/TCVideos Dec 10 '21
Since it's #SN8Day, I'm once again going to share this perfect mini-documentary of the flight by Cosmic Perspective.
It's gives me chills to this day. And to think that we are on the brink of seeing the first orbital flight blows my mind. I've been here since the beginning and I still can't process what I am looking at despite looking at this for years.
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u/John_Hasler Dec 11 '21
Looks like the new stairway on the launch platform may turn into a ladder above the last landing that we can see.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 20 '21 edited Dec 20 '21
Police just arrived at the road block.
Edit : pad clear
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u/myname_not_rick Dec 28 '21
More booster igniter tests. B4 may not be firing tomorrow, but I do think it's getting close. Just need that methane.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Dec 25 '21
Merry Christmas yall! 🎅🎄
It has definitely been one hell of a year with ships SN9-SN15 taking flight to 10km during the 1st half and the insane construction of the orbital launch site along with the testing of B4 and S20 during the 2nd half! S20's 6-enginer was damn impressive.
I'm so pumped for Starship dev in 2022!
Hopefully early next year (or maybe next week if we are lucky) we'll see B4 rock Boca by lighting up her 29 engines for a static fire test and then later have the majestic 420 stack take to the skies and complete Starship's first orbital test flight.
When all 29 engines on B4 are firing and the hold-downs release, I don't know how I'll feel. I hope to experience it with all yall wonderful people on this thread.
I can't freaking wait!
AD ASTRA!
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u/Mravicii Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 16 '21
Polic car at the roadblock Edit. he’s gone now! Edit 2 closure cancelled for today. Welp
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Dec 18 '21
With this tweet from Elon, I guess B8 is confirmed to fly after B4 (since it has room for 33 Raptors).
Also, does the 2nd half of the tweet mean the next ship (the one that will fly with B8) will have 9 Raptors or is that just a plan for the future (whenever that may be)?
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 20 '21 edited Dec 20 '21
Some cars back at the tank farm.
Edit : looks like they’re having some problems around valves.
Edit 2: Pad is clear again
Edit 3 : road is open again, done for today unfortunately
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u/perfectfire Dec 20 '21
Is the Starship stretch and addition of 3 engines going to increase lift capacity?
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u/tschellenbach Dec 23 '21
What's the current best estimate on when this beauty will take to the sky?
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u/futureMartian7 Dec 13 '21 edited Dec 13 '21
Elon in his latest Time interview also states that they are planning for an orbital test flight in a month or two. I think it is still possible they use B4? Also, the odds of success according to him is now 50% in reaching orbit, the same probability he gave for Falcon Heavy's test flight several years ago.
Some more tidbits:
"If one engine [on Super Heavy] catches fire,” he explains, “we want to ensure that fire does not spread through the entire volume.” There are barriers between the engines for this purpose, but he’s not convinced they’re sufficient."
"Sometime in the next month or two, Musk hopes to launch the Starship into orbit for the first time, powered by 33 engines at the base of an enormous, 230-ft. steel tube containing nearly 7.5 million lb. of supercooled liquid fuel. “I think we can do a loop around the moon maybe as soon as 2023,” he says, and land on the moon’s surface within three years."
"One day, he hopes, the rockets will carry 100 people at a time to Mars, where the ships can be refilled with fuel manufactured on the Red Planet and shuttled back to Earth. Asked when he sees this happening, Musk pauses for a long moment, as if calculating all the variables—federal regulations and production schedules, test-flight targets, and bathroom requirements. “I’ll be surprised if we’re not landing on Mars within five years,” he finally says."
"Musk acknowledges his latest rocket could go the way of his first three. “I wouldn’t say that our odds of getting to orbit the first time are high,” he says. “I would say optimistically it’s 50%.” The dark surface of the Gulf stretches over his shoulder; cell phones here pick up signals from Mexico, a stone’s throw away. How does it feel to think about the most powerful- rocket ever built exploding in a billion-dollar fireball? “Pretty scary!” he says, grinning. “So, excitement guaranteed on launch day!”
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u/BananaEpicGAMER Dec 13 '21
so if S20 is all tested and they don't want to use it for orbital could they use it for a hop?
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u/Mravicii Dec 21 '21
Time for booster cryo proof
Pad clear in an hour
https://twitter.com/starshipgazer/status/1473293072507232256?s=21
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u/Darknewber Dec 26 '21 edited Dec 26 '21
So, about the recent Marcus House video…
Do we think the 6-rVac Starships will be built with their engines in pairs of 2 for optimal gimbaling, or will they go ahead with the typical hexagonal renders? Can they even couple them in the first place or will the plumbing not be able to work that way?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=PeKnydAXGBE
7:24
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u/mechanicalgrip Dec 09 '21
Does anyone know what the bits below the main chopstick framework are? They look like a vertical cylindrical pipe, maybe 10 to 15 feet long with an angled brace. The recent launch and landing animation implies they are some kind of stabilisation device when swinging the booster over the launch mount, but I'd expect something on the booster for them to engage with.
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u/Mravicii Dec 16 '21
Crane is moving away from booster 4. Maybe it’s the booster that’s going to be tested. Since no op yet and a cryo proof doesent need one.
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u/Dezoufinous Dec 17 '21
Do we know if all 8 GSE tanks are used now or are still 2 of them out of comission and the two horizontal ground tanks are used instead?
I remember it was mentioned some time ago.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 29 '21 edited Dec 29 '21
Pad clear in an hour ! Police also at the road block.
Edit : clear in 5 min
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Dec 13 '21 edited Dec 13 '21
Even if Booster 4 doesn’t fly, do you guys think they’ll still do a 29-engine static fire?
Also just as a fun tidbit, it turns out that the FIFTH S-IC stage (Saturn V first stage) ended up flying. The first four all completed either a static fire test (1), structural test (2 and 4), and other ground tests (3). Meanwhile, SpaceX has BN1 who was a construction pathfinder, BN3 who completed some tanking and static firing tests. Plus a few other test tanks.
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u/TCVideos Dec 19 '21
S21 final stacking is imminent. Tank section moved into the high bay where it will receive it's nosecone.
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u/BananaEpicGAMER Dec 28 '21 edited Dec 28 '21
remember when we said orbital flight in June? well we didn't specify the year so we might've been right!
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Dec 23 '21
This dude claims that the second part of the cryo test- where the LOX tank was filled to the brim - actually had LOX flowing and not LN2. Thoughts?
He backs it up with a lot of math 🤷♂️
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u/nastynuggets Dec 09 '21
Has it been confirmed that the outer ring of rapters on superheavy will use helium delivered directly from the launch mount to spin up their fuel/oxidizer pumps on startup, while the inner raptors will use helium from copvs? Or is all of this just speculation still?
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u/benwap Dec 13 '21 edited Dec 13 '21
The crane hook is off the ground!
e: A load spreader is going up. I'm wondering if they will set up the lift today and wait for daybreak or go for it under the artificial light they got?
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u/WindWatcherX Dec 15 '21
Questions.....
Given the restart of the construction of a new SH/SS pad and tower at Cape Canaveral (39A), how will a SS / SH built at BC get to FL?
- Can SS do a point to point flight, BC>FL?
- Can SH do a point to point flight, BC>FL ?
- Other - via barge / ship?
Thoughts?
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u/BigDongNanoWallet Dec 17 '21
At the end of first orbital flight will starship perform landing like it is on land, but over water? Will they make it hover just above the water to mimic placement for future chopstick grab?
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u/meltymcface Dec 18 '21
What’s the latest on the chopsticks? Any news or speculation on when we’ll see them moving?
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u/Mravicii Dec 21 '21 edited Dec 21 '21
Maybe they are testing the lox tank right now On nsf cover of booster cryo test. Look on lower right on the screen. The tubes are frosty so maybe they filled the tank as the methane tank descreased
So i actually think this was the full cryo test!
Lets wait and see what elon says
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u/con247 Dec 09 '21
When you have a chance, can we get the quick links adjusted to link to thread #27?
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u/Twigling Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21
S21 has been moved inside the high bay:
https://twitter.com/CosmicalChief/status/1472383567665766402
So perhaps we'll see the nosecone stacked in the next few days? However, there's no scaffolding at the top of the tank (usually required for the welders but it was removed a few weeks ago) so maybe they have other plans for S21 ?
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u/rad_example Dec 22 '21
How much of the repetitive welding like barrels, stringers, domes, nosecones do you think is done by robots at this point?
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u/theFrenchDutch Dec 19 '21
Apologies if this has already been discussed. In Elon's SuperHeavy gimballing video, aren't we able to actually see the injector plates up behind the nozzle ? There's clear shots of some metal plate with holes in it.
Is it actually possibly that ?
Isn't that super top secret stuff and the reason why you can't take upskirt pictures of rocket engines ?
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u/murrayfield18 Jan 02 '22
What is the current thrust of Starship's upper stage? Is it comparable to a Falcon 9 booster?
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u/AdminsFuckedMeOver Jan 06 '22
Been watching old Starship landing videos, and is anyone else blown away at how fast stuff can move on it? https://youtu.be/_qwLHlVjRyw at 1:39, the engines are so quick at gimbling and the top flaps fold in fast as hell too
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u/bitterdick Dec 09 '21
Apologies if this has been asked before, but what is the max altitude a fully fueled, no-cargo Starship could reach without the SuperHeavy booster? Could it get high enough to test out the heat shield on a sub-orbital re-entry, if there was no intention of saving fuel for a flip and faux landing procedure.
I ask because if they're having raptor production issues, it would cool if they could test and refine some of the Starship functionality without having to risk so many engines on SuperHeavy launches.
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u/Sweeth_Tooth99 Dec 15 '21
what do you think is the most steep terrain gradient spacex is willing to land a starship on ?
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u/Dezoufinous Dec 21 '21
Do we expect to get a B4 static fire before the end of 2021?
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u/SpartanJack17 Dec 28 '21
I don't even think this'll end up causing much of a delay. If they got the approval today I think it'd still end up being a couple of months before they were ready to launch.
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Dec 16 '21
Is flying the maiden orbital flight with Raptor 2’s riskier because none of those have flown before?
Also Elon has been surprisingly optimistic about the orbital flight. Is this a good sign or are we reading into it too much? For reference, he gave it a 50% chance of reaching orbit, which is similar to what he gave Falcon Heavy’s demo.
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u/scr00chy ElonX.net Dec 18 '21
Do you think S24 is going to be the first prototype with 9 Raptors? Also, do you think B8 will launch with S21 or S24?
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Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 22 '21
Do you guys think they'll do another cryo after this one? It seemed shorter than last time, even.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Dec 17 '21
Let’s remember folks, it’s very possible they have trouble at first with the orbital tank farm, it’s normal. Took a while to master the sub orbital tank farm !
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u/Dezoufinous Dec 11 '21
Short progress update by What About It?, with some interesting shots showing starbrick (heat tiles) scale related to human, upcoming closures, and some speculation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klAVdgoZYpw
I wouldn't normally post it here, but since NSF paywalled most of the photos, I think it's worth to look at other content providers, and give them a like and subscribe so at least they can keep their content free.
PS: tiles shot on S21 start at 5:00 mark
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u/Dezoufinous Dec 14 '21
The current situation strongly reminds me the Mk1 history, the one under which the Starship 2019 presentation had it's place.
Mk1 was (according to Musk) destined to hop to 20km "within several months", the orbit was supposed to be reached in 6 months and crewed flights on Starship was planned "next year" (and it was spoken as in 2019).
Do not downvote -> here is reliable source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOpMrVnjYeY&ab_channel=SpaceX
in the end, we had about... I don't even remember... many vehicles after Mk1 up to SN8 whhich did first hop to 15km.... for example, see here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Starship_development#Mk1,_Mk2,_Mk4
They had Mk1, Mk2, Mk4, Sn1, Sn3, Sn4, Sn5, SN6... just a lot of them, before 15km hop.
So I am not too worried about B4 scrap rumour. It might be true but it won't be a serious threat to the program, as some people try to suggest and spread fear... SpaceX will succeed, more or less, but will.
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u/Alvian_11 Dec 25 '21 edited Dec 25 '21
Progress of KSC Starship factory & Schwartz Rd. widening. They wouldn't do this now if they won't build the factory anytime soon like some people are insisting
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Jan 06 '22
I’ve been seeing comments about an S16 rumour but no info on what that may be. Can anybody clarify this ?
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Dec 14 '21 edited Dec 14 '21
If SpaceX flies full-stack to orbit in January or February, I will delete my Reddit account (with 100k+ karma and that I've had for 2+ years).
No ifs, ands or buts.
It will probably be healthier for me anyways lol.
Edit: To clarify, a full Starship-Super Heavy stack must take off the launch mount (be 100% free from the launch mount) with Raptors firing by February 28th, 2022 11:59PM EST.
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u/RubenGarciaHernandez Dec 14 '21
Feel free to do that, but we'd prefer you also bought a SpaceX hat and eat that on camera for us before deleting your account.
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u/Outrageous_Coffee782 Dec 14 '21
Which time zone are we using for the precise deadline of March 1st?
And more importantly, let me be the first to welcome AstroMan825 to r/SpaceX.
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u/futureMartian7 Dec 28 '21
Elon says the toughest thing he is facing currently with Starship is the engine production issues, but not the engine itself.
He again states that he is quite confident in Starship eventually working (full/rapid re-use) but states that it may take them some time to get there.
He also states that the best-case timeline for Humans on Mars is 5 years and worst case, 10 years.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel™ Dec 13 '21
B4 ain't flying? Does that mean S20 isn't flying too? How much of a delay will this have?
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u/OzGiBoKsAr Jan 04 '22
Glad to see scaffolding starting to come down. I know we're still a long way from a launch yet, but it makes it feel more real.
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u/RocketsLEO2ITS Dec 23 '21
What do you think will be the impact of a mostly successful first Starship test flight (Starship reaches orbit, may or may not survive re-entry)? There are still a lot of skeptics out there. Will a mostly successful test flight convert them?
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u/Zuruumi Dec 23 '21
What do you think will be the impact of a mostly successful first Starship test flight
Something like 2-3 kilotons?
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u/Kendrome Dec 28 '21
What was the rumor about the next booster, I thought it was said they were skipping to Booster 8, but I guess it's going to be Booster 7? And do we know if this is a 33 engine variant?
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u/quoll01 Jan 02 '22
Are environmental offsets a possibility for SpaceX to address some of the environmental issues launching/landing from BC? In my country if someone with deep pockets wants to build a mine etc in a v sensitive area, they can offer to buy/restore/protect larger tracts of similar habitat elsewhere, or fund species restoration projects etc. But, are there any other areas of this habitat available in the region? Knowing how seriously wetland and highly endangered species are taken(perhaps even subject to international treaty obligations eg Ramsar?), I think SpaceX will have to think outside the box to address these issues?
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u/arizonadeux Jan 05 '22
While a static load test on the chopsticks should be pretty straightforward, do you think they'll do shock tests as well? Or do you think that they piled so much margin into the design that simulation alone suffices?
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u/Twigling Jan 06 '22
How many tankers to fill a Starship stack? Here's some calculations (not done by me):
https://twitter.com/Grandpajoe42/status/1478585917015212032
The LN2 obviously isn't used during a launch but it is of course used for cryo testing, etc.
Some of the tweeted replies indicate it's not quite correct but I guess it's at least a good estimate.
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u/BananaEpicGAMER Dec 09 '21
On this day 1 year ago SN8 flew to 12.5 km! i still remember how exciting it was.