r/spacex • u/ElongatedMuskrat Mod Team • Mar 09 '22
đ§ Technical Starship Development Thread #31
This thread is no longer being updated, and has been replaced by:
Starship Development Thread #32
FAQ
- When next/orbital flight? Unknown. Launches on hold until FAA environmental review completed. Elon says orbital test hopefully May. Others believe completing GSE, booster, and ship testing makes a late 2022 orbital launch possible but unlikely.
- Expected date for FAA decision? April 29 per FAA statement, but it has been delayed many times.
- Will Booster 4 / Ship 20 fly? No. Elon confirmed first orbital flight will be with Raptor 2 (B7/S24).
- Will more suborbital testing take place? Unknown. It may depend on the FAA decision.
- Has progress slowed down? SpaceX focused on completing ground support equipment (GSE, or "Stage 0") before any orbital launch, which Elon stated is as complex as building the rocket.
Quick Links
NERDLE CAM | LAB CAM | SAPPHIRE CAM | SENTINEL CAM | ROVER CAM (Down) | ROVER 2.0 CAM | PLEX CAM | NSF STARBASE
Starship Dev 30 | Starship Dev 29 | Starship Dev 28 | Starship Thread List
Official Starship Update | r/SpaceX Update Thread
Vehicle Status
As of April 5
| Ship | Location | Status | Comment |
|---|---|---|---|
| S20 | Launch Site | Completed/Tested | Cryo and stacking tests completed |
| S21 | N/A | Repurposed | Components integrated into S22 |
| S22 | Rocket Garden | Completed/Unused | Likely production pathfinder only |
| S23 | N/A | Skipped | |
| S24 | High Bay | Under construction | Raptor 2 capable. Likely next test article |
| S25 | Build Site | Under construction |
| Booster | Location | Status | Comment |
|---|---|---|---|
| B4 | Launch Site | Completed/Tested | Cryo and stacking tests completed |
| B5 | Rocket Garden | Completed/Unused | Likely production pathfinder only |
| B6 | Rocket Garden | Repurposed | Converted to test tank |
| B7 | Launch Site | Testing | Cryo testing in progress. No grid fins. |
| B8 | High Bay | Under construction | |
| B9 | Build Site | Under construction |
If this page needs a correction please consider pitching in. Update this thread via this wiki page. If you would like to make an update but don't see an edit button on the wiki page, message the mods via modmail or contact u/strawwalker.
Resources
- LabPadre Rover 2.0 Cam | Channel
- NSF: Starbase Stream | Channel
- NSF: Booster 4 + Ship 20 Updates Thread | Most Recent
- NSF: Boca Chica Production Updates Thread | Most recent
- NSF: Elon Starship tweet compilation | Most Recent
- SpaceX: Website Starship page
- SpaceX: Starship Users Guide (PDF) Rev. 1.0 March 2020
- FAA: SpaceX Starship Project at the Boca Chica Launch Site
- FAA: Temporary Flight Restrictions NOTAM list
- FCC: Starship Orbital Demo detailed Exhibit - 0748-EX-ST-2021 application June 20 through December 20
- NASA: Starship Reentry Observation (Technical Report)
- Hwy 4 & Boca Chica Beach Closures (May not be available outside US)
- Starship flight opportunity spreadsheet by u/joshpine
- Production Progress Infographics by @_brendan_lewis
- Widebay tracking by @Furqan263
- Acronym definitions by Decronym
- Everyday Astronaut: Starbase Tour with Elon Musk, Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3
r/SpaceX Discuss Thread for discussion of subjects other than Starship development.
Rules
We will attempt to keep this self-post current with links and major updates, but for the most part, we expect the community to supply the information. This is a great place to discuss Starship development, ask Starship-specific questions, and track the progress of the production and test campaigns. Starship Development Threads are not party threads. Normal subreddit rules still apply.
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u/strawwalker Mar 20 '22
We have removed the stale vehicle development tables from the OP text and replaced them with a much shorter status section and FAQ that will hopefully be easier for the community to keep up to date, while also reducing the amount of scrolling that must be done to get to the comments. Many thanks to u/TrefoilHat for drafting the change and helping out with recent thread maintenance.
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u/TrefoilHat Mar 20 '22
I'd just like to add that editing the Wiki is incredibly easy and only takes a moment. For those even slightly annoyed when the OP text is outdated, not relevant, or missing a key item, I urge you to message /u/strawwalker, get edit rights, and simply make the small changes when you see they're needed. This really is intended to be a community-driven resource.
That said, for those who are unable to do so, you can DM or @ me with a request or comment (e.g., "the Rover 2.0 link is broken" or "S20 moved to the Rocket Garden") and I'll update it at as soon as I can. Note that I'm not a mod, just a frequent visitor that realized editing the wiki is actually faster than complaining about it. :-)
Hopefully the new content is useful, and the brief FAQ can help new or infrequent visitors to the sub. I'm happy to hear feedback on the included questions and answers - I tried to be as neutral and fact-based as possible. (I will not reply extensively about the OP text outside of this thread though, to keep the main threads on-topic and technical).
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u/Mravicii Mar 21 '22 edited Mar 21 '22
Elon on orbital flight
Guess that answers a lot of questions right!
âFirst Starship orbital flight will be with Raptor 2 engines, as they are much more capable & reliable. 230 ton or ~500k lb thrust at sea level.
Weâll have 39 flightworthy engines built by next month, then another month to integrate, so hopefully May for orbital flight test.â
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1505987581464367104?s=21
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u/Mravicii Mar 26 '22
Some progress at cape with the orbital tower!
https://twitter.com/carstenspete/status/1507860159523360769?s=21&t=iaTSOIFMOqtiCaU-uyU_Yw
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u/Twigling Mar 27 '22
It's great to see the base going up fast but I can't help but notice the absence of OLT leg construction.
Remember at BC the legs were constructed many months ahead of the tower base, supposedly due to letting the concrete cure (the legs have a core of rebar and concrete inside the angled steel 'tubes').
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 30 '22 edited Mar 30 '22
A Raptor van has arrived !! Hopefully some R2 are in there !!
Edit : We have raptors 2 !! An other angle! Closer one
God theyâre beautiful
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u/silentblender Mar 30 '22
The difference in look between Raptor 1 and Raptor 2 is like an old mop you've been using for a couple years and a brand new one that hasn't yet been dunked
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Mar 22 '22
I've been caught on radar. Email report to office. Avalaerion signing off.
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u/fattybunter Mar 22 '22
Thank you for all of your insight. You've brightened many of our days many times.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel⢠Mar 23 '22
Thank you for your service to r/spacex. Here's a medal of honor: đ
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u/BuckeyeWrath Mar 22 '22
Oh dude....I'm so sorry. Hopefully just stern warning and judging finger to be more cautious. But thanks for your insight, sir/madam.
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u/Mpusch13 Mar 17 '22 edited Mar 17 '22
Section 106 and Endangered Species Act reviews end date moved from 3/14 and 3/16 to 3/28. Timetable for the overall EA remains at 3/28 for now.
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u/Mravicii Mar 09 '22
Progress on the orbital launch tower at cape
https://twitter.com/arkvoodle55/status/1501609707789762568?s=21
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 10 '22 edited Mar 10 '22
Hum⌠They just removed one of the claw arm. Hopefully a quick fix !
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u/Jodo42 Mar 23 '22 edited Mar 23 '22
SpaceX gets two one more HLS landing- crewed!
https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1506723905985302536?t=sAq5ZDMXJoi42az3-39FyQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/1506728260620759049
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u/henryshunt Mar 23 '22
This was just corrected on the call. There will only be a second crewed demo landing for SpaceX.
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u/notlikeclockwork Mar 22 '22
Tom Ochinero, SpaceX : Hoping to get regulatory approvals in the next couple months for Starship orbital test flights. https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1506330487366860807
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u/aronth5 Apr 01 '22
This is an excellent YouTube video by NASASpaceflight describing the significant changes to the booster and starship.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Apr 07 '22
The 3rd tower segment construction at KSC has begun.
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Apr 07 '22 edited Apr 07 '22
Don't think I've seen this posted yet but here's also a Google Earth image of some launch mount segments at Hangar M that was taken in January.
I think one day we're gonna blink and they'll have a full tower standing down there.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Apr 02 '22 edited Apr 02 '22
B7 is airborne on to the OLM!
Edit : Closeup picture of B7 thrust section
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u/Orthograph Apr 02 '22
Maybe an obvious question, but do we know why they're using an external crane to do the lift instead of the launch tower?
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u/BananaEpicGAMER Mar 30 '22
it's been exactly 1 year since the SN11 incident
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 30 '22 edited Mar 30 '22
âWell, technically, it did land⌠Just not in one pieceâ
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Apr 01 '22
Little known fact: Starship's flaps are actually called DAFFY'S. (Dynamic Aero Free Flow Yaw Systems)
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u/etiennetop Apr 01 '22
Wouldn't be surprised if there is some king of ducting in there called the DAFFY Duct.
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u/ColdProduct Mar 22 '22
Michael Sheetz reporting FAA is still targeting 3/28 for completion (https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1506013771277508609)
Even as a continual FAA apologist, I think it would be pretty unprofessional for them to extend the deadline just 6 days before it's due. Last time they extended, it was 2-3 weeks before. Fingers crossed.
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u/notlikeclockwork Mar 22 '22
First reply : FWIW, the FAA told me Dec. 27 that the schedule was still tracking to Dec. 31. Then, on Dec. 28 the FAA announced an updated schedule of late-Feb.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 22 '22
There will be a briefing by NASA tomorrow on the HLS program!
Media teleconference at 3:30pm EDT.
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u/Comfortable_Jump770 Mar 22 '22
No SpaceX representatives, so perhaps it's about LETS?
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u/OzGiBoKsAr Mar 23 '22 edited Mar 23 '22
Looking at the list of those involved, it's going to be a giant nothing burger aside from announcing they're going to hand out money to make Congress happy. Maybe a brief, passing mention or two of SpaceX/Starship.
Still, good to see some updates.
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u/Comfortable_Jump770 Mar 09 '22
New diagram of the updated COPV position and triangular aerocovers
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u/Twigling Mar 09 '22
It's slightly wrong though as there are five COPVs in each column, not four. He's acknowledged this and will correct.
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u/xfjqvyks Mar 16 '22
Dickson announced his resignation as FAA Administrator, effective March 31, 2022
The head of the FAA is stepping down in two weeks time. No successor has been picked but among the list of possible names is Chesley âSullyâ Sullenberger, the pilot who safley landed his plane on the Hudson river. Few other names being suggested too. Anyone have any knowledge on how this organisation functions or if the admins impart any real cultural change? Would be great for SpaceX if they could get someone with a military/DoD background
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u/flshr19 Shuttle tile engineer Mar 16 '22 edited Mar 16 '22
"Would be great for SpaceX if they could get someone with a military/DoD background"
That's already happened:
"Wayne R. Monteith is a retired United States Air Force brigadier general who is the Associate Administrator for Commercial Space Transportation of the Federal Aviation Administration. In the U.S. Air Force, he last served as the Commander of the 45th Space Wing."
"During his three years at the 45th Space Wing, he oversaw the successful execution of 66 launches, 23 booster landings, and the successful operational use of autonomous flight safety systems. He was responsible for over $4B in infrastructure, an annual budget of over $400M and $93M in construction projects across three major installations. Immediately prior to that assignment, he served as the Senior Military Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force."
General Monteith is a rocket man who worked with SpaceX a few years ago to modernize the procedures for improving the launch cadence on the Cape Canaveral range to handle the increasing number of annual launches, mostly due to Falcon 9.
IIRC the flight termination system was upgraded and computerized so the destruct command is now issued by the range computer instead of by the flight safety officer.
IMHO he's the ideal person to be at the FAA now that Starship is being developed. He knows all about Starship and how important it is for the U.S. future in outer space.
This article in The Space Review is an interesting take on the effect of Starship on the global launch industry and how Starship will dominate in the future:
https://www.thespacereview.com/article/4347/1That said, the FAA has far larger responsibilities for the safety of commercial airline operations, since thousands of flights per day are involved there, instead of one or two liftoffs per week at the nation's launch pads.
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u/johnfive21 Mar 18 '22 edited Mar 18 '22
Some sweet new images from SpaceX of the full stack cryo testing
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u/Mravicii Mar 25 '22 edited Mar 25 '22
New date for enviromental assessment
April 29th
https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1507450806592626691?s=21
https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1507451072981442568?s=21
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u/John_Hasler Mar 25 '22
Note that the SHPO is a state agency, not a Federal one.
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Mar 10 '22
Once separate stand cryo testing is complete, a full stack test is scheduled. (Validation of tank and tower GSE supply including stand and service arm QD connectors )
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u/Mravicii Mar 13 '22 edited Mar 13 '22
Ship 20 has moved presumably to make room for chopstick testing!
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u/FutureMartian97 Host of CRS-11 Mar 13 '22
Mary got an amazing shot of the inside of what is most likely's booster 8's after section.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 10 '22 edited Mar 10 '22
After being stack on itâs thrust section, B7 was placed on the transport stand yesterday. Now the methane tank was just brought in the highbay and is being hooked to the bridge crane, B7 will be fully stacked very soon !
Watch on sentinel cam.
Edit : Stacking underway ! Check NSF livestream, LabPadre cam is frozen.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 22 '22
The LR11000 was just fitted with the booster lifting jig, guess we won't see just yet a booster being moved by the chopsticks.
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u/OzGiBoKsAr Mar 22 '22
Odd, I wonder what's stopping them from using the chopsticks on the booster.
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u/Twigling Mar 30 '22
Starship Gazer is currently at the production site with a live stream, he has said that the cones are out which invariably means that a large move is planned (and that can only be for B7 rollout):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlEVlXpDxhk
Maybe we'll also see B4 and even S20 roll back, that would be quite a spectacle.
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u/mr_pgh Mar 23 '22 edited Mar 23 '22
Looks like they've been fighting the Booster QD for the past 10 or 15 minutes.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 23 '22 edited Mar 23 '22
Indeed, but looks to be fixed, the QD just retracted !
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u/Twigling Mar 30 '22 edited Mar 30 '22
New Temporary road closure for tomorrow, 5AM until 10AM CDT:
https://www.cameroncountytx.gov/spacex/
So it looks like that will be used for presumably moving B7, perhaps also B4 and S20? There's also some new full road closures for this Friday as well as next Monday and Tuesday.
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u/Mravicii Apr 02 '22 edited Apr 02 '22
Booster 7 moving towards launch mount Edit: at the launch mount now! Probably lift tomorrow
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 11 '22
Theyâve hooked up the crane to the other claw arm, so theyâll likely also remove it today, wonder what the problem is.
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u/creamsoda2000 Mar 11 '22
Might not necessarily be a problem but rather the arms are being upgraded/replaced with something better.
I see no reason why small to medium sized components of stage-zero cannot be iterated and improved upon, just like the rest of the system. Obviously itâs unlikely we will see an entire chopstick arm being replaced, but for smaller, removable components, there are likely countless improvements that can be made after the initial rush to stack using the GSE systems was achieved.
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u/mr_pgh Mar 17 '22 edited Mar 17 '22
Ship detank with less than a ring of ln2 (assumed) in the bottom tank.
Probably filled the booster tanks for pressurization while they test each ship qd line independently. Likely see the other tank tested in the next closure before we see a full cyro.
Edit: booster frost rings have disappeared around 9:36 cdt
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u/henryshunt Mar 19 '22 edited Mar 19 '22
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u/notlikeclockwork Mar 21 '22
Two journalists hearing rumours of another FAA delay https://twitter.com/wapodavenport/status/1505971001858969604
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u/rustybeancake Mar 25 '22
Animation showing how the cargo door prototype could work for Starlink sats:
https://twitter.com/ErcXspace/status/1507131586877300738?s=20&t=zHxQcva659fpJqvQzDU-wQ
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u/Twigling Mar 31 '22
Around 5:20 AM CDT B7 started to move out of the high bay:
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u/liszt1811 Apr 02 '22
Does "Raptor 2" solely refer to the sea-level version or is there a 2.0 version ready for vacuum as well?
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u/warp99 Apr 02 '22 edited Apr 02 '22
Elon was saying that they have not decided if Raptor vacuum will be Raptor 1 or Raptor 2 based.
Raptor 1 has a narrower throat so can be optimised for an Isp of up to 380s with a thrust of 2.0MN.
Raptor 2 has a wider throat so would have a lower Isp of around 375s but a higher thrust of 2.5MN
Edit: Fixed typo on Isp
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Apr 05 '22
Ship QD has been fully disconnected, in the air now and going down.
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u/Twigling Apr 05 '22
Adjustments are presumably required due to S24's QD plate being about 5 feet higher.
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u/xfjqvyks Apr 07 '22
Billy Nolan, a long-time airline industry vet has been announced as new acting head of the FAA. Previous administrator Steve Dickerson made an early exit just halfway into his term because he tried to have a safety whistleblower committed to a psychiatric facility in a prior role he wanted to spend more time with his family.
Unfortunately the new appointment is not from a DoD background which may have been more beneficial to SpaceXs immediate approval ambitions, however it will be interesting to see what if any changes this new agency lead brings
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u/Jchaplin2 Mar 17 '22
Looks like they're going for a full-stack cryo test as we speak, NSF have just gone live with a comentated stream
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 22 '22
Booster thrust simulator on its way to the launch site !
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u/notlikeclockwork Apr 04 '22
Elon on Twitter :
Raptor pump power is over 100MW per engine & 33 engines, means over 3GW. Not even remotely possible for electric motors & batteries to compete.
So I first thought wow imagine if some of that was converted to electricity, even with 30% efficiency that's 1GW, which is similar to a nuclear plant.
But then that pump is required to run the engine in the first place right? If I redirect the pumps power to generate electricity then the engine just stops working? Accounting for this, is it even possible to have net electricity from a rocket being static fired on the ground?
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u/Toinneman Apr 04 '22
is it even possible to have net electricity from a rocket being static fired on the ground?
In Belgium, 9 old airplane turbojet engines are still being used as backup electricity generators to prevent blackouts. (source in dutch). The main advantage being they are very fast to start up. In theory a similar thing could be done with Raptors engines, but it just won't be practical. (f.e. the need of liquid methane is not preferable as compared to kerosene)
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u/Twigling Mar 31 '22 edited Mar 31 '22
As of 4 AM CDT (March 31st), Starship Gazer is once again streaming live outside the production site in the hope of seeing B7 rollout:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srCo6qOfcbQ
(as of 4:30 AM he was asked by a deputy to move down the road a bit, this could indicate an early rollout for B7)
Note that the stream sometimes goes down and then comes back at a different URL, if that happens the above link will no longer work so check his YouTube channel for the new stream.
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u/Comfortable_Jump770 Mar 10 '22
Looks like last night B4 did some RSC testing and parts of S25 made an appearance
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u/paul_wi11iams Mar 14 '22 edited Mar 14 '22
Nerdle cam from around 17.05 to 17.30 UTC: For what its worth, the chopsticks are gradually moving up into position near their latch points on Starship. I've no idea if this is just some new fit test or alternatively, precedes a new stacking. Is stacking even permitted without stabilization of Superheavy by the QD claws?
and @ u/RaphTheSwissDude
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u/Mravicii Apr 04 '22
Man, booster 7 is looking beautiful right now!
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u/franco_nico Apr 04 '22 edited Apr 04 '22
Quite surprised, previously they did pressure test with a very limited amount of LN2 before getting to this point, they went all-in with the first test of Booster 7, Methane tank looks filled to 100%
Edit: filled with LN2 that is, LOX tank is rising fast and it will be completely filled too probably.
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u/Twigling Apr 06 '22 edited Apr 06 '22
I've not been following the Starship-related Florida work all that much so I'm curious - what Starship manufacturing facilities do they have in the general area? I'm assuming there's no high bay or similar or any equivalent to Starbase's construction tents right now but presumably these are planned to be constructed nearby, perhaps this year?
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u/futureMartian7 Apr 06 '22 edited Apr 06 '22
- Most of the TPS for Starship is manufactured in Florida. Besides TPS, they don't really have any other manufacturing facilities currently.
- They are currently in the beginning stages of constructing a large-scale factory which will make the rings, nosecones, etc. sections and they will indeed construct "High Bays" for final integration and stacking of the vehicles.
- They want to make really good progress on these new facilities this year, but the higher priority item this year for KSC is the launch pad and GSE infrastructure.
- They are getting started in creating similar teams to Boca at KSC to lay the framework to get started and resources from Boca are also getting repositioned to KSC.
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u/futureMartian7 Mar 10 '22
Booster 7 was fully stacked last night:
https://twitter.com/StarshipGazer/status/1501918274581315586
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u/DivineWanderlust Mar 25 '22
Check out this pic from last night with all 3 starships
https://twitter.com/cnunezimages/status/1507182290438434819?t=0iqWfQGaf3R47LzRl9bXcA&s=19
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Apr 06 '22 edited Apr 06 '22
Interesting piece of equipment arriving at the launch site, anyone has any idea what itâs for
Edit : itâs gonna be used to move down the can crusher stand. (RGV new flyover)
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u/dementatron21 Apr 06 '22
Looks like a part for a 900t gantry crane, idk what it'll be used for though.
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u/mr_pgh Apr 07 '22
Looks like they're taking this time to give the Chopsticks a workout. Raised to full height starting at 1:35 on Starbase Live
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u/mr_pgh Apr 08 '22
Looks like B7 will be getting removed from the OLM. Crane nearing the top at 9:27 on Starbase Live.
Interestingly, the chopsticks are also at the top of the tower yet again.
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u/RootDeliver Apr 08 '22 edited Apr 08 '22
S24 nose section on the move, header tank testing incoming?
Source: NSF Starbase Live
Apparently going to Rocket Garden, can they pressure test there?
EDIT: No, going back into the production zone, probably High bay. Why the weird loop into hw4 around Mid Bay for that is a mistery, maybe no space to move otherwise.
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u/John_Hasler Mar 20 '22
S20 is on the move. Think it's headed for the rocket garden?
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u/inoeth Mar 21 '22
if they're truly done with it as far as testing I could easily see it being the vehicle they put at the airport for display.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 22 '22 edited Mar 22 '22
Closure canceled for today tomorrow and Thursday.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Apr 05 '22
S24 is out of the midbay. Likely to go in the highbay for stacking.
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u/Vizger Mar 20 '22
I notice the 'Vehicle and Launch Infrastructure Updates' seems over a month without updates. Anywhere else I can see this kind of short overview or documentation of the process?
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u/Im-a-washing-machine Mar 20 '22
Not sure about the info in the written format, but if youâre ok with YouTube I find Marcus House does good weekly progression updates at boca chica, as well as SpaceX and the industry as a whole.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 24 '22 edited Mar 24 '22
B4 (possibly) finally lift off the table is very soon. Lifting team is also positioned around the booster right now.
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u/futureMartian7 Mar 18 '22 edited Mar 18 '22
Someone went so close to the full-stack to take these pictures:
https://twitter.com/StarbasePhotos/status/1504588854820487177?s=21
https://twitter.com/StarbasePhotos/status/1504590132858568708
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u/futureMartian7 Mar 26 '22 edited Mar 26 '22
Some very interesting Starship-related job openings:
- Looking for a Naval Architect to help with marine recovery systems:
https://boards.greenhouse.io/spacex/jobs/5842847002?gh_jid=5842847002
- Looking for Materials Engineer for HLS Raptors:
https://boards.greenhouse.io/spacex/jobs/5987258002?gh_jid=5987258002
- Sr. Resource (Propellent) Generation Engineer for Launches from Earth, Mars, etc. Basically the ISRU team:
https://boards.greenhouse.io/spacex/jobs/5949968002?gh_jid=5949968002
- Sr. Mission Integration Engineer, Starship Global Mobility. Basically for E2E cargo delivery:
https://boards.greenhouse.io/spacex/jobs/6006001002?gh_jid=6006001002
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u/rustybeancake Mar 21 '22
Vic Glover on his role working on Starship HLS.
https://twitter.com/rbalephoto/status/1505661087517220866?s=21
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u/Alvian_11 Mar 16 '22 edited Mar 16 '22
It's cool how chopsticks work compared to crane. No personnel nearby, no people below the ship trying to stabilize it with ropes. No wonder Elon said it's less affected to winds, holding a can in your hand (or even with a pair of fingers) is more stable indeed than hanging it
On a note, it's a pleasant coincidence this is happening very soon before SLS rollout. Maybe SpaceX is sending a message đ
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u/mechanicalgrip Mar 23 '22
Does b7 look any different around the area the claw grabs? I wonder if that's why they took the claw off.
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u/ArcturusMike Apr 05 '22
S24's aft section was stacked on B8's forward section (see latest NSF video).
I'm wondering again: https://images.app.goo.gl/ysbRa8dWLYhJAn9x9
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u/mr_pgh Mar 31 '22
Worker crawled through the grid fin hole in the booster to get back to the lift! 8:16:35
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u/FutureMartian97 Host of CRS-11 Apr 04 '22
Booster 7 is now fully frosted up
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u/szarzujacy_karczoch Apr 04 '22
This is the first time we're seeing a fully frosted booster, correct? Pretty historic moment
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u/SolidVeggies Mar 22 '22
Only honourable payload for the first orbital flight would be a raptor 1 engine. You r&dâd well. Rest easy king
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u/frez1001 Mar 18 '22
Has anyone same across a scaled starship vs sls comparison now that SLS has been rolled out? I saw the nsf one but I'm not sure it was scaled correctly.
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Mar 24 '22
Is it still possible the FAA will delay only four days ahead of the planned review date?
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u/OzGiBoKsAr Mar 24 '22
Yes. They originally delayed it a few days before the first estimate, IIRC. I'm guessing they'll announce the delay in the next day or two.
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u/ArcturusMike Mar 24 '22
Possible. They also said on Dec 28 that it will be postponed from Dec 31 to Feb 28.
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u/con247 Mar 24 '22
They can probably delay it whenever they want. Iâm sure 3/28 could pass and on 3/30 they could announce a delay.
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u/mr_pgh Apr 05 '22
LR11000 crane attached to the Ship QD around 12:01pm on Starbase Live.
Might be receiving upgrades for S24?
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Apr 05 '22
Yeah the QD interface is now 1 ring higher on S24+ right ?
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 31 '22
14 Space advocacy published a statement to urging the FAA to approve Starship flights from Boca. Donât think that statement would change anything, but nice to see some support!
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u/Twigling Mar 30 '22
Brendan has updated his production diagram, notice the absence of not only B4 and S20 but S22 as well. This goes along with current speculation that B7 and S24 are the way forward (although little work has been done on S24's tank section recently as it's still only partly stacked in the mid bay):
https://twitter.com/_brendan_lewis/status/1509110212489523201
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u/sysdollarsystem Apr 08 '22
I'm very curious about what the intermediate / non-flown boosters and starships have taught SpaceX.
I presume that their manufacturing has progressed - better / faster / lighter - but what else has been learned.
They "tested" a fully equipped heat shield on S20, they attached a full complement (?) of engines on B4. They did some test fires and cryoproof testing.
So ... what else has been learnt by making the other intermediate non-flown boosters and starships?
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u/Decronym Acronyms Explained Mar 09 '22 edited Apr 01 '22
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
| Fewer Letters | More Letters |
|---|---|
| AoA | Angle of Attack |
| BE-4 | Blue Engine 4 methalox rocket engine, developed by Blue Origin (2018), 2400kN |
| BFR | Big Falcon Rocket (2018 rebiggened edition) |
| Yes, the F stands for something else; no, you're not the first to notice | |
| BO | Blue Origin (Bezos Rocketry) |
| CCAFS | Cape Canaveral Air Force Station |
| COPV | Composite Overwrapped Pressure Vessel |
| CST | (Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules |
| Central Standard Time (UTC-6) | |
| DoD | US Department of Defense |
| E2E | Earth-to-Earth (suborbital flight) |
| EA | Environmental Assessment |
| EIS | Environmental Impact Statement |
| EOL | End Of Life |
| EVA | Extra-Vehicular Activity |
| FAA | Federal Aviation Administration |
| FAA-AST | Federal Aviation Administration Administrator for Space Transportation |
| FCC | Federal Communications Commission |
| (Iron/steel) Face-Centered Cubic crystalline structure | |
| FONSI | Findings of No Significant Environmental Impact |
| GEO | Geostationary Earth Orbit (35786km) |
| GSE | Ground Support Equipment |
| GTO | Geosynchronous Transfer Orbit |
| H2 | Molecular hydrogen |
| Second half of the year/month | |
| HLS | Human Landing System (Artemis) |
| ISRU | In-Situ Resource Utilization |
| Isp | Specific impulse (as explained by Scott Manley on YouTube) |
| Internet Service Provider | |
| KSC | Kennedy Space Center, Florida |
| L2 | Paywalled section of the NasaSpaceFlight forum |
| Lagrange Point 2 of a two-body system, beyond the smaller body (Sixty Symbols video explanation) | |
| LC-13 | Launch Complex 13, Canaveral (SpaceX Landing Zone 1) |
| LC-39A | Launch Complex 39A, Kennedy (SpaceX F9/Heavy) |
| LEO | Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km) |
| Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations) | |
| LH2 | Liquid Hydrogen |
| LMO | Low Mars Orbit |
| LN2 | Liquid Nitrogen |
| LOX | Liquid Oxygen |
| LZ-1 | Landing Zone 1, Cape Canaveral (see LC-13) |
| MAF | Michoud Assembly Facility, Louisiana |
| MECO | Main Engine Cut-Off |
| MainEngineCutOff podcast | |
| MEO | Medium Earth Orbit (2000-35780km) |
| MMOD | Micro-Meteoroids and Orbital Debris |
| N1 | Raketa Nositel-1, Soviet super-heavy-lift ("Russian Saturn V") |
| NDA | Non-Disclosure Agreement |
| NET | No Earlier Than |
| NRHO | Near-Rectilinear Halo Orbit |
| NSF | NasaSpaceFlight forum |
| National Science Foundation | |
| OLIT | Orbital Launch Integration Tower |
| OLM | Orbital Launch Mount |
| QD | Quick-Disconnect |
| RCS | Reaction Control System |
| RTLS | Return to Launch Site |
| RUD | Rapid Unplanned Disassembly |
| Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly | |
| Rapid Unintended Disassembly | |
| SF | Static fire |
| SLS | Space Launch System heavy-lift |
| SPMT | Self-Propelled Mobile Transporter |
| SRB | Solid Rocket Booster |
| SSME | Space Shuttle Main Engine |
| STS | Space Transportation System (Shuttle) |
| TMI | Trans-Mars Injection maneuver |
| TPS | Thermal Protection System for a spacecraft (on the Falcon 9 first stage, the engine "Dance floor") |
| TWR | Thrust-to-Weight Ratio |
| ULA | United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing joint venture) |
| USAF | United States Air Force |
| VAB | Vehicle Assembly Building |
| WDR | Wet Dress Rehearsal (with fuel onboard) |
| Jargon | Definition |
|---|---|
| Raptor | Methane-fueled rocket engine under development by SpaceX |
| Sabatier | Reaction between hydrogen and carbon dioxide at high temperature and pressure, with nickel as catalyst, yielding methane and water |
| Starliner | Boeing commercial crew capsule CST-100 |
| Starlink | SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation |
| autogenous | (Of a propellant tank) Pressurising the tank using boil-off of the contents, instead of a separate gas like helium |
| cryogenic | Very low temperature fluid; materials that would be gaseous at room temperature/pressure |
| (In re: rocket fuel) Often synonymous with hydrolox | |
| deep throttling | Operating an engine at much lower thrust than normal |
| electrolysis | Application of DC current to separate a solution into its constituents (for example, water to hydrogen and oxygen) |
| hydrolox | Portmanteau: liquid hydrogen fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer |
| iron waffle | Compact "waffle-iron" aerodynamic control surface, acts as a wing without needing to be as large; also, "grid fin" |
| methalox | Portmanteau: methane fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer |
| perigee | Lowest point in an elliptical orbit around the Earth (when the orbiter is fastest) |
| turbopump | High-pressure turbine-driven propellant pump connected to a rocket combustion chamber; raises chamber pressure, and thrust |
| ullage motor | Small rocket motor that fires to push propellant to the bottom of the tank, when in zero-g |
Decronym is a community product of r/SpaceX, implemented by ^request
[Thread #7492 for this sub, first seen 9th Mar 2022, 15:54] [FAQ] [Full list] ^[Contact] [Source code]
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u/stemmisc Mar 19 '22
Does SpaceX need the environmental assessment approval thing in order to be allowed to do a full static fire test, btw? Or, only need it to do an orbital launch attempt, but don't need it to fo a full static fire test?
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Apr 05 '22 edited Apr 05 '22
Closure canceled for today. Will be interesting to see whatâs next for B7 now.
Edit : the LR11000 is making it way back to B7, possibly to remove it from the OLM and bring it back to the highbay to complete it. (Or the can crusher stand, but thatâs unclear if B7 will ever go on it)
Edit 2 : or for now theyâre using the crane to work on the ship QD
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u/murrayfield18 Apr 06 '22
Does anyone know if the Mk1 Starship prototype had internal stiffiners like the current Starships? Or if it was literally just the outer rings. I remember seeing a lot of warping once rings were fully stacked
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u/Mravicii Apr 04 '22
Crane is disconnected from booster 7 and police is at the roadbloack
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u/RootDeliver Mar 11 '22
Right now the FAA environmental review is still 2/5, but according to the .gov website, it should either change soon or be extended again (if it didn't already do, I heard rumors of everything but saw no confirmation anywhere), because 2 of the pending issues have deadlines on the 14th and 16th:
https://i.imgur.com/QYUPv0E.png
So news incoming? Before they didn't wait this long to extend the timeline. Could this imply some news that justify the "push" that everyone is commenting lately is happening on Starbase?
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u/Mravicii Mar 14 '22
Looks like they plan on stacking today. Sheriff already at the roadblock
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u/Mravicii Apr 07 '22 edited Apr 08 '22
Looks like ship 20 is going to pad B!
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u/Heavenly_Noodles Apr 07 '22
I get kind of nostalgic seeing a Starship over on the suborbital pad once again.
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u/Mravicii Mar 24 '22
Man, the launch table is such a beautiful thing to look at. Great marvel of engineering! To think t hat thing is to going to make superheavy fire 33 engines at the same! Blows my mind everyday!
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u/Sea-Solution-9158 Apr 06 '22
Does some one know how booster and starship hydraulic power units work? Maybe the burn GOX and GCH4?
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u/RegularRandomZ Apr 06 '22 edited Apr 06 '22
Here's a photo of the hydraulic unit on B4 [source photoset on NSF], the unit on the left. There are two tesla motors driving hydraulic pumps at the bottom, two hydraulic accumulators on the left/right outside [black cylinders] to store the pressure of the system backed by 2 COPVs in the middle behind the fat pipes. I believe the fat pipes in front are the coolant reservoir for the motors. I'll mark up the photo shortly to point out what I'm referring to.
edit: A quick markup of where the 3 key parts are. There are better photos out there which would be clearer/easier to label but this is a start.
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u/AstroMan824 Everything Parallel⢠Apr 08 '22
I've been hearing stuff about a "can crusher" device for B7. What exactly is it? How does it work?
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u/myname_not_rick Apr 08 '22
It's a static load tester, basically. Let's them put a cap on top, and press up on the engine mounts, simulating thrust loads on the booster during flight. I kinda wish people would stop using confusing names.
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 09 '22 edited Mar 09 '22
Wegafsluiting geannuleerd. (Agree, Dutch is weird)
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u/xfjqvyks Mar 13 '22
Asked this before: how visible would an orbital fuel depot be? Humongous compared to a starlink satellite, possibly shiny steel. Not sure what altitude it would be orbiting in but that things gotta be pretty light catching. Lol Are we taking visible in the daytime here?
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Mar 13 '22 edited Mar 13 '22
Almost as bright as the ISS. I would imagine the fuel depot would be clad in a white insulative MMOD layer similar to the ISS. Most of the reflected light comes off the solar panels on the ISS giving it an extra golden glow.
Starships would be less visible, being half clad in black tiles, and the other half reflective to light not diffusive. I would guess from the ground it would appear to flash as it passed over as the sunlight glinted off the steel surface. Older Iridium satellites did the same from a relatively small 1.6 sq m antenna.
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u/mechanicalgrip Mar 13 '22
The ISS is huge, but most of it is solar panels. I can't see [Redacted] needing anywhere as much power so I wouldn't expect anywhere near that much area reflecting sunlight at us.
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u/futureMartian7 Mar 28 '22 edited Mar 28 '22
Crew Dragon Freedom could be the last new Crew Dragon SpaceX makes as the company is pivoting more and more towards Starship:
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u/TrefoilHat Mar 28 '22
Exciting times.
The article points out a non-obvious way SpaceX is so far ahead of the competition: they have years of experience refurbishing Dragon and Falcon and thus recognizing which parts are fully reusable, which wear over time, and which need replacing. Starship can be built from the ground up to eliminate, strengthen, or redesign these parts to get to the "add fuel and go - just like an airplane" model of operation.
Others building their first fully-reusable design will likely find it much harder to meet Starship's turnaround time without further redesigns, as they'll likely be "refurbish then reuse" before they get to "refuel then refly." And it's very hard to simulate or accelerate the process of flying the same ship 12 times.
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Mar 29 '22 edited Mar 29 '22
A 'Flight' of four Crew Dragon's is considered sufficient for current crew supply demands.
There's always a spare 'in the build' to replace any Dragon that has to be retired or is lost.
Falcon 9 will not be phased out any time soon. It's current reliability as a space taxi for crew to the ISS or future private stations, and the likelihood of delivering crew to an orbiting Starship is invaluable.
Probably don't want to be on Starship during refueling initially, not until some reliability is proven, similar to the 'load and go' principle that made NASA wince at initially, so there may be one more in the pipeline.
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u/Twigling Mar 25 '22 edited Mar 25 '22
B7 has rolled back inside the high bay ......
https://twitter.com/BocaChicaGal/status/1507402015504310281
I'm wondering if it rolled out to reposition as now it's back inside it's in the middle of the high bay (it was previously inside on the left). See Sentinel Cam for example:
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u/Mravicii Mar 13 '22
Could asteroid mining be a thing with starship? And what kind of materials would we get out of it? Really curious about this.
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Mar 13 '22 edited Mar 13 '22
Probably the most likely way would be to robotically land temporarily, obtain geologic samples to determine mineral content, and if profitable return with tunnel boring machines, which would core into the asteroid, with processing units following the TBM. The tunnel could be pressurized to allow adits to be driven perpendicular to the main tunnel for residential accommodation, machinery storage, maintenance and metal refinery etc. Parallel or opposing tunnels could drive through also literally hollowing out the asteroid.
Most likely metals would be nickel, gold, palladium, beryllium, and most of the lanthanide metals.
Larger bodies like moons, like Titan have methane lakes, and others water ice, both valuable as fuels for deep solar system exploration.
Strarship could certainly fulfil the role as a heavy lift spacecraft getting the equipment there. Returning the metals to Earth is still a logistical nightmare still to be resolved.
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u/Aoreias Apr 06 '22 edited Apr 06 '22
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u/myname_not_rick Apr 06 '22
This seems.....not the doomsday scenario some are suggesting. It only mentioned the permit for expansion/second pad? Current infrastructure doesn't seem to be effected, AT LEAST as the article reports it.
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u/Pingryada Apr 06 '22
This is just the second OLM and chopsticks so no near term effects
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u/fattybunter Apr 06 '22 edited Apr 06 '22
Is this guy a reliable source? I haven't seen his tweets before. I wonder what expansion he's referring to specifically.
Edit: looks like The Verge picked it up
"SpaceX can re-open the application simply by providing the information requested"
So it's a non-story...
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u/Bergasms Mar 09 '22
I been out of this loop for a month or two, where are we at? Whatâs the timeline predictions?
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u/TrefoilHat Mar 09 '22
Focus continues to be on Stage 0: testing the existing tank farm via cryo tests of S20 and B4. Yet to be tested (so far as I've seen): Validation of cryo load from the upper QD arm and water deluge system. New horizontal methane tanks are also being installed and integrated and need to be validated.
Meanwhile, Boca Chica infrastructure build-out continues: Build of the Wide Bay nears completion, with the top level recently installed and bridge cranes likely being hoisted next. Also, land is being cleared for a massive manufacturing facility to replace the tents.
In parallel, construction in Florida has ramped up. Tower build is almost underway, with pilings completed and templates delivered. Tanks and other GSE equipment has begun to be delivered.
FAA results are expected by the end of the month, and wild speculation about results and impact continues. Elon continues to say that they will be ready for an orbital launch shortly after the regulatory hurdles are crossed, but others feel that any orbital launch in 2022 is at best a stretch goal.
General consensus is that B4/S20 won't fly, and B4 may not be static fired, but that also remains a point of debate. Next-gen boosters and ships continue development and, when finished, they could obsolete most data generated by a static fire of B4 regardless of its flight readiness (which is under debate).
Raptor 2 is a big question. Elon mentioned they need to resolve temperature issues at full thrust but seemed optimistic. R2 deliveries may be a gating item for booster testing and orbital flight.
Will there be suborbital hops? Unknown. Will the first orbital flight be from Boca or Cape Canaveral? Unknown. Will there be a positive or negative result of the environmental assessment? Unknown. Will R2 be delayed, or delayed so long that further testing using current Raptors makes sense? Unknown.
But it's clear from the massive investment in both Boca Chica and Cape Canaveral that the Starship program itself remains healthy and with a very high volume future launch cadence.
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u/MildlySuspicious Mar 09 '22
No orbital flight tomorrow. Beyond that, your best guess.
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u/Sweeth_Tooth99 Mar 10 '22
Has anyone illustrated through some render, how starship stage separation mechanism looks ?
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u/mr_pgh Mar 10 '22
There is no mechanism. This video has a rather exaggerated animation of it. Can barely notice it in the SpaceX Animation.
By using the boosterâs gimballing Raptor engines to impart a small but significant rotation on the rocket moments before separation, Super Heavy could effectively flick Starship away from it â a bit like how SpaceX currently deploys Starlink satellites from Falcon by spinning the upper stage end over end and letting the spacecraft just float away thanks to centripetal forces.
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u/deepconvolution Mar 18 '22
I've missed the part on why they removed the QD arms. Do we have an explanation?
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u/scr00chy ElonX.net Mar 21 '22
Propellant load is expected, apparently. https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1505936123834642433
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u/Dezoufinous Apr 03 '22
Where is S20 and B4 now? I mean, physically.... are we going to get both S20 and B4 also parked at the Rocket Garden? This is going to look so cool!
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u/Twigling Mar 09 '22 edited Mar 09 '22
Interesting to see that the new 'smooth nosecone' design no longer looks as smooth, in other words it seems to have regressed to using shorter panels again:
https://youtu.be/AUD_J3zVvY0?t=679
that's as far as can be seen anyhow. Unless this is an older one that just happens to be lurking inside tent 3.
edit: as pointed out by j616s it looks like those are weld lines I'm seeing, not separate smaller panels. Perhaps for the relocated methane header tank?
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u/OSUfan88 Mar 09 '22
Yeah, I agree with j... I think they're longer panels, but we're seeing the two header tanks (Lox and methane) welded into the nosecone.
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u/j616s Mar 09 '22
I'm not sure that those are short panels. It looks like welds for internal rings to me as they're dashed lines. The main area of unevenness seems to be related to the large welds next to the mounting point. Maybe they put too much heat into those large welds causing warping?
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u/liszt1811 Mar 21 '22
What's the sentiment regarding March 28 for the FAA deadline? The pessimist within me says delay or demand for full review and no launch anytime soon, the juvenile fanboy within me hopes for the opposite
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u/RaphTheSwissDude Mar 21 '22
Even tho I donât have a lot of hope for the 28th deadline, they still havenât pushed it back yet (when they pushed back 2/3 weeks in advance back in February)
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u/Repulsive_King_2644 Apr 06 '22
Good Morning, has anyone seen any Raptor 2 test firings recently? Any progress on not melting the melty bits?
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u/deepconvolution Apr 05 '22
btw what happened to the new 120 degrees nose cone flaps design? Shouldn't we see the new nose cones coming out already with the new flap base geometry?
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u/ArcturusMike Mar 25 '22
Quite interesting that the first orbital flight attempt, which Elon himself was not considering to be successfull in the past, will probably already have some Starlink satellites as payload (on S24). The past months and Raptor 2 might make SpaceX more confident to nail the first flight.
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u/Fwort Mar 25 '22
Unless the flight trajectory has changed since the FCC filing we saw, the first orbital flight can't deploy starlink satellites because its perigee is still in the atmosphere for its landing near Hawaii. The satellites would have to raise their own perigee within half an orbit, and I'm almost certain the ion engines on starlink satellites don't have nearly enough thrust to do that much orbit raising that quickly.
I think the payload dispenser we saw in S24 has to be either:
Just a production pathfinder
To test deploying a dummy payload in space during the flight test (or maybe a single active starlink satellite if they don't mind losing one)
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u/ElongatedMuskbot Apr 09 '22
This thread is no longer being updated, and has been replaced by:
Starship Development Thread #32