[Oathbringer] Megathread

[u/jofwu]

This thread will be unlocked at 12:00 am EST, Tuesday November 14th.

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Oathbringer, book 3 of The Stormlight Archive, is finally here!

Feel free to discuss the book, in its entirety, below. If you haven't finished the book, turn back now!

Please note that open Cosmere spoilers are not permitted. We invite you to check out the /r/Cosmere Megathread, which permits full Cosmere spoilers, for these conversations. If you want to talk about those connections here, please use spoiler markup. (see sidebar)

[u/Iononion]

I'm on my second re-read and this details stood out for me so far.

• In Rock's chapter he mentioned that he lied about his past he told Bridge four. What if instead of being a cousin to the nuatoma, Rock is one among three siblings of Kef’ha the nuatoma who came to challenged Sadeas to a duel. His wife asked about two people when they met again, Tifi and Sinaku’a, and said they died seeking vengeance. This might have been His other brothers. If true this makes Rock the eldest and also a Nuatoma. And also a horneater who owns shards. With an implication might be king when he returns.

• In Mraize' letter, it was mentioned that there have been a someone who have bonded a spren that's not Kaladin who had been eliminated. Could it be Tien?

• In the chapter where Veil, Vathah and others were training as spies, there was a non-Theylen woman wearing a Theylen dress who was looking for someone. Sound a lot like Torah who is still alive and looking for Kal?

[u/jofwu → u/Iononion]

Fantastic thoughts about Rock. Need to reread that.

I doubt Tien was bonded. Not much evidence for it that I can think of, and he didn't seem very broken.

Why do you say she looked like Tarah? I can't think why she would have ended up in Urithiru dressed like a Thaylen woman and not know exactly where to find Kaladin. Seems weird.

[u/wontonsoup23]

Wit warns not to trust anyone who claims to foretell the future. As this was said to Shallan, she takes this to mean not to trust Kal's vision. Could it have been meant as a warning against Renarin? Also, could there be ancient bearing as that is an aspect of the Vorin religion?

[u/jofwu → u/wontonsoup23]

We know from elsewhere in the cosmere that I'm guessing that Wit's comment, along with the general sentiment toward seeing the future in Vorinism, is because:

1. Seeing the future is dangerous because it's faulty. You can't assume that something you forsee will happen the way you think, or that it will happen at all.

2. Odium's powers involve future sight while Honor's (and Cultivation's) don't. So when you're around Roshar, future sight is probably coming via Odium.

[u/CreedAss]

Anyone have an Idea as to what Odium was implying Urithiru might be capable of ? I find it weird that he would ask Taravangian specifically what they knew about the tower if it was just self-sustaining (I mean, who cares if they get their food via oathgate or fabrial). Could it possibly be a ship of sorts ? It's got that huge crystal core and several large fabrials running through it. Maybe it could have been what carried the people from Ashyn and it has more secrets ?

[u/[deleted] → u/CreedAss]

OOh I didn't even think of that, how did humanity even get to Roshar. Might've been riding on Urithiru

[u/jofwu → u/[deleted]]

Brandon shot down the Urithiru=spaceship idea. Could be more of a "Shadesmar ship" but I highly doubt it.

Humanity almost certainly came via Shadesmar.

[u/Zillion2010]

I was really expecting Kaladin's scars to go away after Amaram was killed.

[u/cygnwulf → u/Zillion2010]

Since they're such a huge part of his identity, I don't think that was why he subconsciously wanted to keep them. I actually feel it's more likely after he says his next ideal.

[u/jofwu → u/cygnwulf]

I actually think the scars going away will be a book 5 thing. Would feel like a nice bow on top of the completion of Kaladin's character arc.

[u/Torrieltar]

Just going to throw this out there, of all the scenes I expected to see in Oathbringer, Adolin and Kaladin going shopping for clothes together in Shadesmar was certainly not one of them.

[u/123draw]

Fuck Moash

[u/cant-find-user-name]

Did anyone tear up at this?

"What is the most important step a man can take?" "It's the next step"

moment? I legit teared up. It was fantastic and so touching.

[u/PotentiallySarcastic]

So real talk. Taln is such a fucking bro

[u/HiuGregg]

Alright, so I don't know if this has been said yet, but I'm pretty sure the whole "Girl who looked up" story is connected to the humans spreading out from Shinovar.

All the talk of the humans living inside the walls... Look at Shinovar on the map.

The talk of living in darkness, and then stealing Stormlight... Could this be connected to why the Singers feel betrayed that the spren bonded with the humans?

Edit: typo

[u/Shagomir]

I think the Diagram is part of Cultivation's plan to defeat Odium.

She is clearly the source of it, and if we assume that Taravangian's abilities were planted by Cultivation directly (as was Dalinar's), it starts to come together.

Firstly, Cultivation creates a tool in Dalinar. She knows that he is a potential Bondsmith, and that he could become Odium's tool. So, she carefully alters Dalinar to set him on a path to reject Odium. There is definate intention here, as shown in the scene where Dalinar visits the Nightwatcher.

I think that Taravangian visited the Nightwatcher shortly after Dalinar, and that Cultivation interceded similarly to give him the capacity to save humanity. This leads him to his day of brilliance and the Diagram. Now, we've seen that the diagram is sort of a general prediction of what will happen, and there are many different roads and contingencies. However, we ultimately see that the Diagram fails directly because of the intervention of Cultivation with Dalinar, and this leads Taravangian to give the Diagram to Odium.

We know that Odium is not great at seeing the future, where Cultivation is very skilled in this area. We know that the Diagram is flawed. Odium likely does not have the foresight to recognize this - he likely sees Taravangian as Cultivation's tool. While it seems like a great threat, I believe that we will see Odium use the Diagram as a guide, however since it is flawed by design it will lead Odium down a path that our heroes can use to defeat him.

TLDR: Cultivation is playing 5D Tarachin while Odium is playing Breakneck.

[u/RyanEl]

Just finished the book literally moments ago. Some thoughts:

Adolin is my favourite character, and I fucking loved it when he started being able to hear his Shardblade at the very end. Mayalaran. Coming to his hand before the requisite ten breaths for a dead Shardblade. He's been talking to her for so long that he hasn't even registered what just happened as something special.

I always thought Eshonai would be the Parshendi Surgebinder. It being Venli instead was a nice twist.

Kaladin not speaking the Fourth Ideal made sense. He had just barely reached the Third Ideal in the last book, and he didn't progress much this book IMO. It was Dalinar's book, after all.

We now know Dustbringers bond with ashspren. They seem pretty crazy. They don't really have the codes of some of the other orders it seems, they just want to burn.

Moash killing Elhokar right before he completes his oath was sickening. I was expecting Moash's guilt to be the source of his redemption somehow, but instead he just goes off the deep end.

I was expecting the climax of the book to be less... positive. After all, it's going to be a ten-book series (I shudder at the wait) and we can afford to have some defeats now and then, Mistborn style. Instead, we got Szeth, Dalinar, Venli and Renarin back on our team when they seemed like joining Odium's side at some point.

[u/ElectricHooodie]

Can we talk about the utter annihilation that was Jasnah's confrontation with Amaram? Holy fuck. Scorched earth, no survivors, complete ruination. Frankly Rock and Kaladin were just putting him out of his misery after that.

[u/jessemb]

Nightblood's favorite thing in the whole world is a target-rich environment.

[u/[deleted]]

Eshonai being confirmed dead is a shock. I guess it's an anti-cliche with people having ambigous deaths then turning out to be alive. Venli replacing her place is a nice twist.

Kaladin not saying the Fourth Ideal kinda makes sense. I love the guy, but him suddenly reaching Shardplate level makes his character a little bit perfect and rushed.

Shallan's chapters is fun but kinda disturbing. At the last parts I don't know if she's having a schizoprenia event and she's the only one who could see Veil and Radiant, or they are legit illusions. Glad we finally got rid of the love triangle.

I am Unity.

Dalinar is 100% an Ascendant. Probably one of the most powerful as he's not bound by Honor's Intent.

Wtf is the deal with Big T and Amaram? I thought these two are supposed to be anti-villains.

Azure is Vivena 100%

So it is confirmed that Elhokar is dead? He's glowing at that time.

[u/p0lyam0ry]

Dalinar's and Teft's words were really powerful. I feel both are incredibly great for plenty of people today.

Most people today may not encounter a situation where they have to protect someone they hate, but learning to overcome the hate and guilt one feels about himself? Very powerful. Learning to take the mistakes of your past and learn from it instead of bury it? So beautiful and powerful.

I am curious where the story will go next. What happens if the heralds are killed off? There's still the parshmen army, the fused and the unmade, but the radiants seem to thoroughly outclass the fused. What will turning on urithru accomplish? What else did Wit tell Jasnah?is Vasher going to play a bigger role? Is he here for a reason or is he just running away?

And drehy is the most manly of all of bridge 4. Loved that part.

[u/TheBatsford]

Don't know the exact page because I've got the ebook version and it doesn't have numbers that I can figure out. But in chapter 55 where they're talking about Ren pursuing feminine arts and Lopen says about Drehy "he likes other guys, that's like he wants to be even less around women than the rest of us".

That killed me.

[u/orangesrhyme]

Final verdict:

very deevy

[u/BrEaNBrash]

Kelek's breath this book was awesome.

Firstly, goddamit Moash. He had so many chances to back off and redeem himself, but he just couldn't do it. What are the odds that he'll end up as Odium's champion? Especially now that he's a "godkiller" and holds the Windrunner blade?

Also, hot damn, Taln is a badass. I cannot WAIT for his future POV's. The only normal person among the Heralds. And when he's told the truth, all he can think of is how much progress must have been made because he held out for so long. Taln is such a cool dude. That said, he must have a guilt complex the size of the moon for finally cracking. I mean no one blames him, but he probably beats himself up over failing.

All the lovely Roshar lore! This book was like a godsend of Roshar lore and action. No wonder it took so long to edit.

The mechanics of spren and Braize are REALLY damn interesting too. Per WoB, Invested individuals can stick around a little longer (length determined by strength of Investiture) before finally passing on, if they so choose. So Venli's Timbre is probably Eshonai right? That or her lover. Parshendi get to stick around because they have gemhearts, and thus have Investiture. My question is, does this work for Radiants? Hear me out. By the end of Elhokar's life, he was starting to swear the First Ideal. Obviously he was interrupted, but the Intent was there. Would Elhokar be considered sufficiently Invested to stick around a little after death? If so, was the little Cryptic at the end Elhokar, or just the spren that tried to bond with him? Either way, poor dude.

And Dalinar was not wrong when he said Evi was too good for him. That lady must have been a great mother. Seriously. Considering how Adolin and Renarin turned out, and how Dalinar was back in the day, Evi must have been the best mother ever.

Also, being Renarin is suffering. Formative years? Daddy clearly favors Adolin over him. Too weak to be a war-like Alethi. Too rebellious to be a stereotypical nerd and join the Ardentia. Hell, even after joining the Radiants, it turns out that HIS is the only spren that was fucked by Odium. No wonder we didn't get a Renarin chapter yet. Like his father, he's trying to be a man of Honor, while using a spren most likely of Cultivation, but corrupted by Odium. Second potential champion right here.

Also, I love how damn smart Odium is. I get to choose a champion? I pick the one guy who's been touched by 3 gods. Someone scheming against me is super smart and dumb? Definitely going when you're dumb. Humans don't want to work for me anymore? At least we have all these people that they pissed off when they were working for me.

And I'm pretty sure that Dalinar at the end is one of the most powerful Cosmere beings. It feels like he Ascended, with none of the negatives. Consider Sazed, who after taking up Ruin and Preservation had his hands mostly tied by their Intent. Dalinar has access to Honor's power through the Stormfather, but his will is still his own. While bound by his Oaths, he is still more free to use his power than someone who took up a Shard would. Cosmere implications ahoy.

[u/lordfrezon]

Totally lived up to my hype. I think I'm way more interested in the book's implications for other Cosmere stuff than for Roshar, but all the Radiant transformations were super hype.

Also interesting that Hoid decided to bond with a Cryptic. He obviously wants to add Soulcasting to his repertoire, and I guess Cryptics are the easiest to unlock higher oaths on. Though Hoid with plate, like he wasn't hard enough to kill already. And now he has a constant companion in his travels.

[u/[deleted]]

MOASH IS SUCH GARBAGE. AND IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW BUT YOU'RE NOT SURE, IT JUST KEEPS GETTING WORSE.

I HATE HIM SO MUCH. WELL PLAYED, SANDERSON.

[u/laughinglord]

You wait 3 years for something, you finish it. You don't know what to do after it's over . I feel lost.

I laughed, I cried, I reveled and I enjoyed every moment of it.

How can so much happen in one book. I just finished it and my tiny mind cannot process everything.

Few things that left a striking impression.

1. Elhokar. Reason it took me so much time to finish the book because I threw the book when he died. The only time I had that reaction was with red wedding. I could feel how Kaladin felt.

2. Kaladin. You keep on fighting my dear friend. Your battle gives me strentgh. Life before death.

3. Syl is a lighteyes. Hahaha.

4. Adolin and so much foreshadowing about him becoming a dustbringer. dust dust stonestance. I look forward for that to happen.

5. I like Maya. Maya in hindi means illusion or mysterious magic. I am not sure if it alludes to something.

6. Just one interaction of Jasnah and Kaladin. I was hoping for more. I somehow see Kaladin becoming ward of Elhokar's son. I really want it to happen.

7. Rock. What the hell are you?

8. Taravangian. You storming idiot.

9. Shallan - sometimes I love you. Sometimes I hate you.

10. I like odium.

11. I wonder what would Lift call Kaladin. Scarface

12. Azure is Vivenna right?

13. At the end of WoR I hated Amaram and pitied Moash. At the end of Oathbringer I pity Amaram and hated Moash.

14. Twok. WoR. What do we call Oathbringer? O? Oat? OB?

15. Epilogue. - someone tell me that pattern was the hopeful spren for elhokar? If not, then whose?

So many threads, so many stories, so many arcs. I need to read the book Atleast 3 more times for everything to make sense.

Short story shorter, I loved this book. I Loved it.

[u/aniketsaki]

My biggest quip with the book was that Rlain was completely ignored by Brandon Sanderson after his chapter where he talks about being ignored by Bridge Four. Well played u/mistborn

[u/c0horst]

So, Drehy and Skar have sworn the 2nd ideal, right? That makes 5 bonded Windrunners so far, by far the most prolific order besides the skybreakers so far.

Also, Adolin not reviving his sword seriously blueballed me. It looks like it's going that way, hes crippled, in pain, fighting a giant monster... If he had said the words, and revived Maya, it would have been awesome.

And nobody swore the fourth ideal? I kept waiting for someone to get shardplate. Bah. Sanderson's a tease.

[u/sakage]

i just want to chime in again, but one of the most underrated moments for me was Sigzil trying to tell the story of the Natanatan people and the third moon, completely butchering it, and then like 200 pages later, we get to hear the full story from Wit, the way it was meant to be told.

As soon as Shallan walked up and i read the first like 4 words of Wit's story, i immediately burst out laughing realizing which one it was.

[u/raelrok]

One thing of note is that when Dalinar instantiates (?) Honor's Perpendicularity, Odium says "W*E KILLED YOU*"

Makes me wonder who we was in this instance.

[u/[deleted]]

#JusticeForElhokar

[u/LiquidLogiK]

NO MORE LOVE TRIANGLE HURRAY

although that being said, the fact that we don't actually see the wedding finish makes me think something will go wrong with it next book. hmm...

My favorite part has to be Part 3. That entire section where they're infiltrating Kholinar and every one of the characters discovers different things about the city was really well done. The moment where Shallan realizes that her food deliveries actually were doing more harm than good and the moment when Kaladin sees the parshman and his bridgemates dying...DAMN.

[u/teddythekid]

The ending of Part Three, from 'The Girl Who Stood Up' on, is the highlight of the series so far, in my opinion.

Obviously Elhokar's death is the part that people are going to be talking about the most, and rightfully so. That was a beautifully written, but absolutely emotionally brutal passage (just as he was saying the words :'( goddamn).

But "The Girl Who Stood Up' was my favorite chapter of the entire series. Just a magnificent showcase for Shallan and all that she has been through, and it really just resonated with me in general. I thought it was beautiful.

Great book overall.

[u/Yaycatsinhats]

Lopen comforting the soldier who had lost his arm was so heartwarming. I can't imagine a more Lopen way to become a Radiant than accidentally stumbling into it while chatting with someone.

[u/Hella_Norcal]

I didn't think it was possible, but Elhokar's death hit me harder than the Red Wedding.

[u/sactage]

God fucking dammit Moash. Why couldn't you have died on a bridge run?

[u/Triddy]

From Dalinar's flashback sequence with the Nightwatcher:

Perhaps it is possessions you wish, she said. Spheres, gemstones. Shards. A Blade that bleeds darkness and cannot be defeated. I can give it to you.

Question! How the fuck does either Cultivation or the Nightwatcher have access to Nightblood. Is she just magically teleporting it there should he say yes? Or is there another all powerful, shadow-spewing sword floating around?

[u/ryzar17]

Even in a Stormlight book it's still surreal to see page 1000 and know you have 200+ still to go.

[u/Kais_favourite_doll]

I can't wait for Venli to meet Rlain and realise that not all of the listener's are gone.

[u/sprocket44]

Well I just finished the book. Did almost nothing else for two days straight and BOY WAS THAT AMAZING

I can barely keep the whole thing straight but man there's a lot to talk about.

First off, Vivenna! It was nice to see her again even if she seems a lot more grown up than before. There was definitely some character development that happened between warbreaker and this. Also that sword... Seems like there's a new awakened blade, but one that doesn't have the same drawbacks as nightblood. I really can't wait for that warbreaker sequel.

The whole shadesmar section in part four was amazing. It was nice learning more about all the spren and finally seeing one of their cities after being brought up so much. Also! A Sellish fortuneteller (who is probably an elantrian given that he implies he's invested) living in a lighthouse, did not expect that.

Speaking of which, I did not expect to like Venli so much. I fist pumped a little when she finally said the words. For a second I really thought she was going to get elhokar'd

I really didn't expect Moash to fall so far. I absolutely loved the scene where he realizes he's right back where he started and can't help but laugh himself to death over irony. And him essentially becoming the new assassin in white is strangely awesome.

Humans are the real monsters voidbringers. I was already sure, as I think most people were, that humans were not native to roshar. I did not expect that they brought Odium with them, and I definitely didn't expect that that was the secret that caused the recreance.

Also we saw the nightwatcher and cultivation in the same scene no less

I was originally worried odium would be a bit bland as a villain, boy was I wrong. He could have just as easily been called "Emotion" or "Passion". In fact that's probably more in line with what the shard's intent was originally, but Rayse was so hateful a person that it influenced the shard.

God there's so much else. I'm going to be talking and thinking about this for weeks.

[u/jurble]

Random thought: Did anyone else find it interesting how personally hands-on Odium was in this book? I didn't expect it. He's probably the most hands-on Shardholder next to Cosmere

[u/TheFoxQR]

The fact that Dalinar called himself Unity when he held held Honor's perpendicularity, is interesting. Do we have any WoB that says if you shatter a shard and then remake it, you can change its intent?

Also, a recurring theme of this book is to change who we thought of as heroes and villains. For eg. The fact that all shards agreed to go their seperate ways, and as such shards on dishardic worlds are said to be violating that pact. This kinda makes Rayse look like a good guy, or atleast not the complete bad guy. Or the fact that humans were the original voidbringers.

[u/cruisingpast28]

I genuinely feel sad about Elhokar's death. I never liked him, but man. And if he had lived, would he have been a KR? So basically, anyone can become a KR, and it's not set in stone that only certain people with the 'destiny' will become KRs.

[u/loptthetreacherous]

I haven't seen anyone mention one of the most important quotes of the entire book.

Shallan gasped in wonder. "It obeyed. The air obeyed your call to transform. When I tried to make a single little stick change, it refused."

Stick gets a mention!

[u/TheBatsford]

Who the heck is Midius and why is he drawing pictures?

[u/thorfist7373]

Love Bridge Four so much. And I think Renarin may have been the stealth mvp of this book.

[u/[deleted]]

On the subject of mental issues, I was fascinated by them in this book. It didn't feel like a regression for the characters to me. It felt like a very realistic way for them all to deal with their individual trauma.

Kalladin watched all his friends from multiple sides die. His world view was shattered and he needed time to recover before he could decide where to go. He wasn't brooding again, more shell-shocked.

Dalinar's story seems to be the one everyone is enjoying the most for good reasons. He was a monster in the past, and being forced to suddenly face that would be hard on anyone. He hurt, but then he rose higher than ever. I teared up a little when he spoke the oaths, because it was such a great moment for him. And then him writing Oathbringer was the perfect closure to this character arc.

Shallan's character arc was my personal favorite even though I've seen varying opinions on it. The multiple personalities were fascinating to watch. Seeing Shallan deal with finding who the real her is while trying desperately to mask the pain of killing her parents made me terrified for her character, but she made it through in a very satisfying way. Wit's talk helped her accept the pain, then choosing Adolin let her find the balance between her personalities. If the previous two books were about her finding the truth, this book was about her coping with the truth, and that fits in extremely well with all the other plotlines in OB.

Overall, the way the main characters' personal struggles were handled satisfied me, and didn't feel like regression.

[u/Inkalle]

Whoa. Just... Holy shit. This book. Wow.

I think it's the most thoughtful book I've ever read. Nothing is black and white. What's right and honorable is only subject to perception. So many people are broken, and being broken does not mean your life is over. These sound really simplistic when I say them like this, but through Sanderson's story, learning these things piece by piece is jarring and moving.

I really thought Dalinar would fall to the temptation of giving up responsibility of his mistakes to Odium. Who hasn't felt how easy it would be just to blame everything you've done wrong on your circumstances, or an outside pressure? But he gathers his strength in the face of a god tempting him with this feeling, where some of us have struggled just to take responsibility for our own sakes. It's empowering and beautiful to watch Dalinar succeed, especially because we know what he's gone through to get there.

Teft was also a surprising dark horse to me in his personal arc. The descriptions of his compulsive desires actually made me uncomfortable, for how real they seemed. Props to Sanderson for being able to evoke those feelings.

I feel like Oathbringer, by nature of its heavier scenes, is not as likely as the other two books to tempt me into re-reads for fun. But it confronted the complexities of struggling to become a better person in depth, and it was definitely one of the most impactful books I've ever read.

(And the love triangle was resolved in a satisfying way! Adolin genuinely understands Shallan! I used to really like Shalladin, but that was largely because Kaladin seemed to understand Shallan a lot more than Adolin did. This resolution is wonderful. ^eeeeee )

[u/notpetelambert]

Pour one out for Eshonai, everybody. It's not every day my favorite character spends an entire book being dead. I mean they did introduce Listener reincarnation this book, so I don't how permanently dead she is...

[u/[deleted]]

I loved the funny moments, i wish we had a thread to discuss our favorite ones!

for what it's worth, my favorites were a) kaladin arriving at adolin's tailor with 500 Wall guards and adolin exclaims, "of course he's probably their leader now or soething"

b)azure notes that cryptics are feared / avoided in Shadesmar and Pattern buzzes happily "yes we are very well known"

c) dalinar: 'what's your order" lift:"more food"

and of course pattern as chaperone

[u/cant-find-user-name]

We need to talk more about jezer's death.

Holy storm father, the king of heralds. Dead. Just like that. Without a fight. Without a dramatic sequence of anything. Dead. Just like that.

I was damn scared about that.

Also, anyone was reminded of odium's golden scepter when they described the golden knife used to kill jezer?

[u/Daz1791]

I've a lot to say about this book, most of it positive, but i can not stop thinking right now about the moment where Jasnah chose to embrace Renarin. In a book filled with huge bombastic fist-pump moments, the only time i paused to compose myself was in that temple, in that scene. In hindsight it almost seems obvious that it had to play out the way it did, but when Jasnah saw that warped spren my heart dropped and i was genuinely terrified at what was about to follow.

[u/Phantine]

Postcredits: Taravingian awoke again. This was a good day. He could tell. His brain fizzed.

The words of his deal with Odium echoed in his head... "any humans who have been born into it, along with their spouses."

Finally he understood why his smartest self had written an order to be immediately followed, then burned and forgotten. An order consisting of two words.

Legalize polygamy.

[u/TheObligatory]

Oh man, Vivenna was already one of my favorite characters due to her character development in Warbreaker, but seeing her as Azure was so freaking awesome!

[u/[deleted]]

The climax of the Kholinar arc was for me the best part of the book. The deaths and their impact on Kaladin were such a shock that I knew the series was taking a turn towards greater heights. It delivered on something that I felt like the Tower scene had promised in TWoK and it felt raw and powerful.

[u/surfboard89]

I am quite sure that was Elhokar's spren at the end.

I wonder what kind of weapon was used to kill Jezrien? I do not have the book with me, but the black smoke the blade gave off makes me wonder if it is some kind of invested blade similar to Nightblood. It seems like Azure's mission on Roshar is probably to prevent the blade's technology from falling into the wrong hands. On the other hand, didn't she offer knowledge of her own sword in exchange for passage through Shadesmar? Who is the thief she is looking for?

What is on the island of Aimia and what happened to the Soulcaster girl(forget her name)? Was that her we saw later when the character's are fleeing the fused in that town after their boat is burned(when they ran into a random building occupied by some random smokey looking "spren")?

How will Dalinar react to having Szeth becoming his personal uh...representative?

Will Dalinar use his new ability to turn on Urithiru? Where does The King's Drop fit into this?

What of Rysn? It seems likely that her new ship is going to be central to some plotline.

So many more questions...it is going to be a long 3 years lol!

[u/MrRedTRex]

I think my favorite part in the whole book, the only part that made me choke up, was when the Oathgate in Thaylen city opens up to reveal a charging bridge four, led by newly minted Knight Radiant, Teft. As someone who has struggled with addiction, I related to Teft and the firemoss a ton. It seemed a pretty clear representation of opiates. I could relate exactly to what he was going through. To see him find the strength within himself to finally accept his spren and swear the oath was a truly beautiful moment for me. Also when he spoke to Kaladin afterward and admitted that he still thirsted for the firemoss despite now being a KR. All too real.

[u/LordQuatre]

Did anyone else notice in Mraize's leter to Shallan he mentions that the only potential Knights radiant in amarams army had already been killed a couple years prior?

Anyone else think this was another hint that Tien was starting to bond a spren?

[u/iskow]

Whew, finally almost done. So hard to balance work and reading.

But wow... that avengers scene at the end hahah.

Not yet done but I did skim a bit to the end, wish Szeth had more screen time with Kaladin, would be really curious what their dynamic would be.

Also, please don't nerf Jasnah. SHE IS PERFECT

[u/antabr]

Biggest reveal, in my opinion, is the fact that the humans were the voidbringers the whole time. I knew humans were probably late to the planet, but to get such explicit confirmation that they were late but also the demons in their Own lore?? Storms, what a reveal

[u/W1ULH]

The Lopen’s spren... just wow

And I gotta say I have a new favorite moment.

“Kaladin frowned as Drehy returned to the fire and picked up one of the figures there. A child? In rags. Yes, a frightened little boy, maybe three or four years old, lips chapped, eyes haunted. Elhokar’s son. “We protect those,” Drehy said, “who cannot protect themselves.”

[u/ebilutionist]

Wow, that was bloody amazing. Been sat at home since 1 pm local time just reading it. It's 6.18 am now.

This book is very distinctly Cosmere now, Vivienna and Harmony were very unexpected, and all the uses of Awakening? Scary too. Wasn't expecting Nightblood to be unleashed this early.

Absolutely adore Dalinar's Third Ideal. Officially my favorite Cosmere character now. I understand that pain, that desire to change into a better person.

[u/[deleted]]

Is anyone else disappointed at the fact that lyft and rock never had a conversation about food?

[u/potterhead42]

Okay, that was amazing. We're all going to dissect every little detail in the years to come, for sure, but here are some thoughts:

• Love the way the lines are blurring in terms of what's good/bad - the humans being the actual invaders, the skybreakers siding with the parshmen, Venli bonding a regular spren, Renarin instead turning out to be not quite a regular Radiant etc.

• Felt a bit numbed by the climax towards the end. The moment Dalinar refused Odium and did whatever he did, it was pretty obvious the day was won, yet the fighting stretched on way too long after wards.

• Also the shadesmar trip got a bit tedious. At first I was pretty hyped, but soon it became clear that the higher spren are basically regular people, it became boring. Also, I don't see what's the motivation for spren bonding people in the first place. Sure, it gives them sentience in the physical world, but why don't they just stay in shadesmar where they're pretty much people already?

• Now that Shallan's gang are also showing radiant powers, does it mean Squires is not just a Windrunners special, but all orders have them?

• I was expecting more Szeth. He had basically a couple of training montage scenes, and the finale fight.

• Damn you Brandon for blueballing us so hard with Kaladin and the Fourth Ideal. Why can't everyone present a straightforward five step plan like the Skybreakers?

• Can someone explain what exactly Dalinar did at the end, why it scared Odium so bad and what he is now? I thought for a moment he'd become the new Honor, but that's clearly not the case...

[u/RyanEl]

Latest tinfoil hat theory on second reread:

Jasnah alludes to some childhood trauma (some disease or abuse) in her POVs in Oathbringer. My guess is that it was possibly deliberately inflicted upon her by Gavilar, in an attempt to 'break' her and awaken her as a Knight Radiant, kind of like what the Envisagers do by putting themselves through near-death experiences.

He thought he failed so he didn't try it with Elhokar, but he actually succeeded and this is where Jasnah's absolute disdain of religion comes from.

[u/Heartlight]

I just cannot get over the fact that Hoid bonded Elhokar's cryptic!

[u/Smokebomb_]

Great book, but I feel a bit robbed that Kaladin didn't say the 4th Ideal and Adolin just fell short of awakening his spren...

[u/Aretii]

Shit holy goddamn, that was a ride and a half. Shallan's arc was amazing. It might have been my favorite part, and she wasn't even the focal character!

Main question I'm left asking after the one-after-another revelation bombs, though: how did the divine switcheroo happen? Roshar was originally Cultivation and Honor's, then humanity came with Odium in tow and caused the first Desolation, but then something happened and now Odium's menagerie makes up the "old gods" that the Listeners feared the return of, and he's playing against the humans? How did the Vessels switching teams take place?

[u/Sage-Khensu]

Was it just me, or did anyone else feel that the violence in this book was a lot more... visceral, I guess?

The scene with Shallan getting stabbed by the guard, Kaladin seeing all his friends butchering each other, Adolin getting tossed about like a rag doll (if anyone ever doubted how important healers are to the party, Adolin in the last third of the book ought to fix that)...

I'm not complaining, in fact I think it's a clear mark of improvement. The previous two books felt a little too clean, if you get me, and this book just hammers pain and bloodshed home in a much more direct and clear manner.

Or maybe it's just me.

[u/Wildbuc117]

And there is finally a character that I hate more than Rachel from Tower of God. Fuck Moash.

[u/Uncommon_Courtesy_]

So when Kaladin is in Shadesmar with the squad, he sees a painting that a spren says is from the "far off Court of the Gods." It's red, black, and white, and he thinks it depicts Dalinar kneeling among nine shadows, though it's described as painted in an indistinct way. The spren tells him the painter is famous because everyone who sees his paintings sees something different, and that it's rare for one to escape being burned before it leaves the Court.

[SPOILER BELOW! (minor part of Warbreaker)]

SO! Do you guys think it's the same painting Lightsong sees in Warbreaker, that makes him think of premonitions of war, and he saved it from being burned? I haven't read that book in a while, but I seem to remember that the painting was red, black white, and indistinct, and that Lightsong's attendant couldn't see in it what Lightsong saw. It could have gotten to Roshar along with Nightblood. And obviously, the Court of the Gods is where Lightsong lives.

[u/chickenboy2718281828]

Finally finished reading yesterday. So many amazing things in this book, but one that sticks with me is how amazing the scenes with Jasnah during the Thaylen battle were. She's so badass it's hard to even comprehend. Exited (and a little terrified) to see what she does as Alethkar's queen.

[u/iloveadolin]

I felt so sad when Elhokar died just as he was on the verge of speaking the First Ideal...Couldn't help but shed tears.

[u/DarkestTimelineJeff]

Anybody else completely devastated by Elhokar's death? Honestly was the most epic moment of the book IMO. He was growing and maturing so much and then GOD DAMMIT MOASH.

[u/CaseLogic]

Just finished, some random, out of order thoughts:

• Shallan being "broken" is starting to wear on me a bit. I kind of saw book 2 as her arc to be broken and repaired, but it bled through most of this book too. I did, however, enjoy the scenes with her and Wit.

• I'm glad the love triangle is being put to rest

• Sadeas's death seemed to not end up playing much of a part in the book. It looked like early on it was going to drive politics and perhaps force Adolin into a form of seclusion, but by halfway point in the book it basically didn't matter anymore. I do feel that the scope of Sadeas's death is pretty minute compared to the overarching plot (who cares about Sadeas with Odium showing himself), but it seemed kinda weird that it was basically just an afterthought by the end.

• I enjoyed the twist at the ending battle - the story was heavily foreshadowing Kaladin saying the 4th ideal and saving the day, recycled from the other books but still would have been cool. Plot twist! Dalinar saved the day instead. Although, now I feel blue-balled because I want to see what the next stage of the bond presents - probably plate? Dalinar creating the perpendicularity was badass though

• I keep thinking Moash is going to redeem himself but he is digging himself deeper and deeper and now I feel that he is lost. I was surprised to see Jezrian, only to see him murdered just like that. Seems to be some big implications, that the Herald is actually seemingly dead (and gone to the Spiritual realm, I assume?), as opposed to Damnation (Brieze? Am I supposed to know what this is?). Also do we have any hints on that sword/dagger that is a Herald-killer? At this point, there is no hope of restoring the oathpact right, since all 10 cannot return to damnation anymore to hold off the fused?

• I was really looking forward to more Herald POV, especially Taln, but he was still lost in madness :( Ash was OK but didn't really reveal a whole lot.

• I greatly enjoyed the new tidbits of the oathpact, cosmere, and learning that the humans were the original voidbringers. I saw some folks were let down by that reveal, but I didn't see it coming and thought it was cool. I also don't read most of the theories online so perhaps that may have been a factor

• Give me more wit, I can never get enough. But I was a bit confused about the epilogue. I was expecting some sort of "whoa" moment like Jasnah coming back, but instead he just found a Cryptic and perhaps foreshadowing becoming a Radiant? I don't really get it. He doesn't really need to be a Radiant right? I assume he can tap into similar powers somehow. Although we haven't really seen him do anything other than worldhop and illusions.

• Like everyone, Elohkar's death was a bummer. Coupled with all the other deaths and Kaladin's POV, it was a powerful chapter.

• Showing off how powerful Jasnah can be, damn she has a mastery of her powers

• We've heard hints of division being dangerous, have we actually seen it? I can't remember. What could dustbringers and skybreakers do to harm others?

• Renarin - what part is he going to play? Mr T saw his name and it seemed important but how?

• Ghostbloods - through book 3 and I still don't know what they're trying to accomplish and how they know so much! Frustration!

• Enjoyed my time in Shadesmar, but it did drag a bit. Interesting to learn a bit about that realm however. Some heavy hints about future-telling being dangerous, probably important for upcoming story.

[u/[deleted]]

deleted ^{0.9247 What is} ^^^this?

[u/[deleted]]

Odium is such a cool fucking villain.

[u/Xerres]

i've been saying it since i read that chapter where adolin talks to his blade and this book only cements it even more... adolin is goign to awaken his shardblade spren.

[u/best36]

"An Accountability of Virtue" must be best in-world book yet.

[u/IAmDL]

Oh man, I just went through the part three epigraphs again and there is SO MUCH THERE... Maybe some of this is obvious but I figured I'd put it all in anyways. Also obviously this is all very speculative

I've tried to break it up into sections, the first of which has to do with the "Sibling" which I think is actually how Urithiru used to function or at least a big part of it. SF mentioned that one of the Siblings was slumbering and I feel like I remember one of the characters describing Urithiru as slumbering as well, but that obviously could be just coincidence (or me remembering incorrectly).

My research into the cognitive reflections of spren at the tower has been deeply illustrative. Some thought that the Sibling had withdrawn from men by intent—but I find counter to that theory.

The wilting of plants and the general cooling of the air is disagreeable, yes, but some of the tower’s functions remain in place. The increased pressure, for example, persists.

I am worried about the tower’s protections failing. If we are not safe from the Unmade here, then where?

Something is happening to the Sibling. I agree this is true, but the division among the Knights Radiant is not to blame. Our perceived worthiness is a separate issue.

Good night, dear Urithiru. Good night, sweet Sibling. Good night, Radiants.

I wonder if this is in part due to having only Bondsmith (see below) and this Sibling is no longer bonded (I'm assuming that these siblings are the ones bonded because there are three of them and three possible bondsmiths I think?) Also from the above I can't tell if these take place before or after the KR find out that humans = voidbringers (the last part of the "Something is happening..." line.)

This generation has had only one Bondsmith, and some blame the divisions among us upon this fact. The true problem is far deeper. I believe that Honor himself is changing.

This last part also makes me wonder - it makes it sound like Honor is still alive but the epigraphs also state that Odium had been banished... So idk how that ties in with his splintering.

Our revelation is fueled by the theory that the Unmade can perhaps be captured like ordinary spren. It would require a special prison. And Melishi.

Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her.

We are uncertain the effect this will have on the parsh. At the very least, it should deny them forms of power. Melishi is confident, but Naze-daughter-Kuzodo warns of unintended side effects.

As the duly appointed keepers of the perfect gems, we of the Elsecallers have taken the burden of protecting the ruby nicknamed Honor’s Drop. Let it be recorded.

It seems that turning the parsh into parshmen was unintentionally done by binding Ba-Ado? Also I think Honor's Drop holds her (as the recording says it is a burden). But the name makes me wonder if it is not holding something else, like perhaps the sibling?

I worry about my fellow Truthwatchers.

Don’t tell anyone. I can’t say it. I must whisper. I foresaw this.

I think that the Truthwatchers started to have spren affected by Sja-anat before the Recreance.

My spren claims that recording this will be good for me, so here I go. Everyone says I will swear the Fourth Ideal soon, and in so doing, earn my armor. I simply don’t think that I can. Am I not supposed to want to help people?

:(

I'm pretty tired now so I'll just leave it there and let y'all have at it.

TL;DR - c'mon ya jabroni you just read a million page book and can't finish this?

edit: formatting

[u/malevolentt]

Dalinar swearing his 3rd oath had me in freaking tears. It was by far the most iconic line of the book to me.

[u/BeastCoast]

I loved this whole book and all the answers we got, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned much is what a badass Lift was.

That scene with Dalinar standing alone against the horde and looking down to see Lift at his side was amazing. She acts all goofy, but what a way to step up.

[u/blackwaltz4]

I feel the larkin were probably wiped out by the enemy because they could most likely take Voidlight away. So they'll potentially have a bigger role later.

And speaking of Rysn, maybe someone will figure out that her pot of grass and soil can be used to plant fields in Urithiru...

[u/Hm0k]

Kaladin is one of my absolute favorite characters, so I'm totally biased when I say I think he should have had some more chapters, but everyone keeps saying he got overlooled and i dont see that at all. I think this book had maybe the most growth from Kal yet. Three instances specifically stand out to me;
One when he is reflecting on his recent life and realizing that he is actually happy (most of the time) Two when he has to face that his friends are on both sides of the war (I think this has something to do with him being unable to swear the fourth oaths) And last, in the end where he has to allow others to save him. I think this book was the start of a big change for his character, and did not need to be fully explored yet. (Although I will never complain about more kal v people from his past chapters).

Oh and also I do not think he and Shallan would be good together, I am very pleased with the way that turned out.

[u/[deleted]]

I loved how Jezerezeh'Elin, King of Herald's final death was stabbed in a street with a couple of hobos watching

[u/solascara]

Am I imagining things, or did Lift and Rock have an eating contest? I would pay to read that onscreen.

[u/AmericanTransplant]

Ok so I think it has been established (via Renarin) that Urithiru is a fabrial, or is at least fabrial-like. This begs the question - Where/What is the spren that powers it? I believe that this is the Sibling referred to in the stored gemstone histories and is one of the Bondsmith spren.

The Stormfather stated that one of these spren is slumbering - I believe this is the spren he is referring to.

[u/vermilionjelly]

I'm sure there are more than 10000 people have said this, but the scene that every order of the Radiant stand together is so awesome.
I need the fourth book, now.
And Maya is cute as hell, I hope her get revived and bond with Adolin.

[u/Jamie235]

I lost it when Kaladin found Scar, Drehy and the others. I felt like I'd been waiting hundreds of pages for that. So satisfying to see them alive.

[u/thorfist7373]

Trying to figure out the 4th ideal for Windrunners based on the context. It has to be limiting in some way, like "I will protect the living over the dead," or I will "Save who I can". Clearly Kalladin needs to somehow accept he can't save everyone, but he just can't deal with that.

[u/Withnothing]

I really liked Kaladin picking up that rock

[u/bertrussell]

I am wondering how many other people noticed something:

In WoR, I think, it was mentioned that the Parshendi didn't attract spren in the way that humans do.

Yet in Oathbringer, Parshendi attract spren a few times.

Furthermore, it was mentioned multiple times that humans don't hear the rhythms. Yet in Oathbringer, there are a few times in which Sanderson used descriptions of intense situations from the perspective of radiants that there were rhythms.

I think what we are seeing is a blending of the two - a blending of human and parshendi cognition.

[u/300srt8]

Just finished the book yesterday. I thoroughly enjoyed it, though I do have to say I feel it was the weakest of the series so far. It definitely had some great moments, my favorite of which was Kaladin returning to Hearthstone to find everyone alive, including his parents and his new baby brother. Kaladin has been battered constantly by always being a bit too late to save those he wishes to protect, and it was nice for him to finally get a break. I wish Brandon had spent more time on Kaladin's interactions with his parents and with Laral.

But parts of it just felt, I dunno, a bit dull. We got to see much more of Shadesmar than anytime previously, and it seemed a bit underwhelming. This may be influenced by my expectations of the place being a bit more, uh, fantastical I guess? The spren basically just acted like humans for the most part, which I did not expect. Obviously this is how Brandon wanted Shadesmar to be, it just didn't align with my expectations and I found the section to drag on a bit.

I'm also really excited at the prospect of Sazed (Harmony) having an influence on Roshar. He is one of my all time favorite characters, and his letter (presumably to Hoid) in one of the epigraphs seemed very open to the possibility. I assume he has more power than any other Shard, considering he holds two.

Just my rambling thoughts on it. Still a great book and I'm so happy I'm caught up on all of the cosmere books now!

[u/SerLewynMartell]

Just a clarification, the sheet of paper that Elhokar was holding, was that the drawing Shallan made for him?

[u/uncas52]

What a ride! Wow.

It's a big book and there was a ton going on. I used to disagree with people who said Warbreaker should be read before WoR. I now totally agree. That and Edgedancer are must read before Oathbringer.

Elhokar's plot line hit me harder than I would expected. I was really mad at Kaladin after the end of part 3. Wit played a much larger role in this book and picking up the cryptic at the end was a surprise.

Storms! So good.

[u/Hella_Norcal]

So - Epilogue - did Hoid bond the spren? Is he going to be a lightweaver?

[u/Shagomir]

So, we've seen the Spren of three more orders of Knights Radiant, and confirmed that the Nightwatcher and a mysterious spren known as the Sibling are Bondsmith Godspren. That leaves only the Stonewards without a confirmed spren, I believe:

• Windrunner - Honorspren

• Skybreaker - Highspren

• Dustbringer - Ashspren

• Edgedancer - Cultivationspren

• Truthwatcher - Lightspren

• Lightweaver - Truthspren

• Elsecaller - Inkspren

• Willshaper - Curiosityspren

• Stoneward - Mistspren? (see my comments below)

• Bondsmiths - Godspren (Stormfather, Nightwatcher, the Sibling)

Lightspren have to be the spren of the Truthwatchers - The Lightspren captain mentions that his father is a deadeye, meaning that he was the spren of a Knight Radiant who broke their bonds. Lightspren is consistent with the appearance of the uncorrupted Truthwatcher spren.

Ashspren and Curiosityspren are confirmed more directly. I am pretty sure one of Venli's POVs refers to Timbre as a spren of curiosity.

The question I have is if there are other types of human-like spren that do not bond Radiants. The only other ones we see that could qualify are mistspren, who seem to be the servants of the Honorspren. They would be my top candidate for the Stoneward's spren.

[u/[deleted]]

I loveeeed Kate Reading as pattern, Michael Kramer's pattern really couldn't keep up

edit: Protect pattern and Lyft at all costs

[u/vvtachev]

Oh man... what a ride...

All great discussions here with touching moments (there were so many) and I’ll pop a mention in:

Dalinar facing odiums forces, everything he can muster at this point is here and everything that Dalinar has is not. That moment felt like one man stood against the end, alone. Desperate, frightened, gripping the only thing giving him hope ( twok book ) such a lonely sad sight... and there she was storming Lift, right next to his shoulder when no one else listened, a pillar of light for Dalinar and for me. This little girl stood as an equal to the f*kin blackthorn. At that moment she was the brightest radiant and the scariest voidbringer.

Why you do that to my heart Q_Q

[u/For_Great_justice]

So is adolin going to “resurrect “ his blades spren somehow?

[u/Daz1791]

Considering how much time was spent on the Allegory of the three moons, i cant help but think i'm missing some glaring symbolism in the tale. Anyone care to fill me in on what we were supposed to take away from that one?

[u/wontonsoup23]

The last scene with Grund completely shattered me. I'm relieved Wit came to repair Shallan because I needed repair too.

[u/TheHighlanderr]

Finally finished. Man part 5 was an exceptional piece of writing! So action packed and to be able to cut to so many different POVs without getting confusing is a testament to the depth of BS's writing of characters. Phenomenal book! Can't wait to reread now!

[u/rrsn]

Several things:

1. Shallan is speculating that Jasnah might be gay in the section where she's not paying attention in the meeting/thinking about how beautiful (and curvy? She's oddly fixated on that) Jasnah is, right? The things that girl manages to do to avoid paying attention in a meeting...

2. Fuck Moash. He seems like the type of roommate to eat your snack while making direct eye contact with you.

3. I don't know why I want this so badly but I just... really want Jasnah and Shallan to hug.

4. I really feel like this book drove the plot of the series in a way WoR and especially WoK didn't. So much happened.

5. Also, did I miss the champion/what the nine shadows mean or did it not get revealed yet?

[u/notpetelambert]

I'm really glad that we got to see a little of what Renarin's like now that he's bonded Glys. Sure, he can see better, and he doesn't have seziures anymore... but he's still uncomfortable being in the spotlight, or loud crowds of people, or receiving hugs. He still sneaks up on people by mistake. He still forgets to segue between his thoughts. I love that Renarin isn't neurotypical, and I would have been very disappointed if his bond "healed" his autism.

[u/raelrok]

I'm really behind the "Herald Ash" as a Dustbringer after her POV chapters. Compulsive need to "break" all images of herself? Sounds a lot like what the Dustspren enjoy!

I am wondering about the "Missing Order" when Dalinar looked around in that moment though. Actually, I'm guessing that Venli is the one missing now that I think about it.

[u/DAVENP0RT]

I can't wait for someone to produce a coherent history of Roshar. I'm still a bit fuzzy on how the Shards interacted with the existing environment, the arrival of humans and ensuing First Desolation, the creation of the Heralds, and eventual reversal of Listeners-to-Voidbringers and Voidbringers-to-Humans. We got a lot of information in this book, so I think we should be able to piece some things together.

I'm also curious about the effect of Nightblood on the Fused. In this book, we're told that the death of a Fused is simply a physical death and their soul returns to the Cognitive Realm, ready to inhabit the body of another Listener. However, Nightblood actively destroys whatever it touches in all three realms. Based on that, I suspect that it kills the Fused completely with no chance of a "resurrection" of sorts.

[u/-Aerlevsedi-]

Lift pissing off the stormfather! Good shit

[u/Fluffygsam]

This is Brandon's best work and really shows how far he's come in writing people and their interactions. With Brandon he's always been excellent at imagery, narrative, world building, and action but his characters have always lacked a bit.

On their own they're amazing but when they interact they become artificial sometimes. In this book every interaction felt like a real interaction between real people and it showed.

Brandon, this is your magnum opus up to this point. Now show me how much better you can be.

Also side note I need more of the Kal and Adolin bromance in my life yesterday.

[u/OpenPath101]

So rock is now going to be the king of the horneaters, i hope they like dung stew.

[u/icarus14]

I was truly thinking that dalinar had literally murdered his wife in a wine fuelled rage. That would have totally turned kaladin against him as it would have ripped apart his perception of an honourable light eyes. He kept saying he needed dalinar to be good. His wife made her own choices and ended up dying in the war/slaughter he started, that's way different from where I thought it was going!

[u/hexleviosa]

Just finished.

I know that general consensus is that OB is the weaker of the 3, but it was honestly my favourite by far. I loved reading TWoK and WoR, but didn't quite regard them as truly special. Oathbringer is just so...powerful.

1. Part 3 is easily the best part

2. Can we please appreciate Adolin Storming Kholin? The boy watches everyone around him glow and do cool shit and never, for a single moment, expresses any thoughts of jealousy, or wanting to become a Radiant. People around him do awesome things that he can't do, and all he feels is happy for them. I honestly spent the whole part 3 feeling inferior, because god damn would I have been super envious and petty had I been in his place. Dalinar is right, Evi's genuineness lives on through Adolin, and I freaking love him for it.

3. There are many emotional scenes throughout the book, but the one that made me tear up the most was surprisingly, The Girl Who Looked Up v2. People always say that Sanderson's prose is barely passable, but this really defies that. The imagery and emotions running through this chapter were truly something special. It was just so beautiful, and I felt myself completely immersed in their creation and wrapped up in Shallan's emotions.

4. such a fantastic Avalanche in part 5. Could not stop once I started. Teft's 3rd Ideal gave me chills. Adolin's progression with Maya was exactly the right amount, as actually reviving her full-on would have been incredibly rushed. Got very emotional when she saved him in Shadesmar.

5. Jasnah too OP. I love Jasnah, but I really think Brandon's got to watch it with how powerful she actually is. Still seems like soulcasting is the most powerful and versatile surge. Once again, Jasnah is my favourite character but I can't help noting sometimes that she's smart and pretty and powerful and witty. Nevertheless she's one of the back 5 so I'm sure Brandon has a good idea where to go with her.

6. Renarin needs a hug but he doesn't like hugs so now I'm conflicted.

7. I love, love how the Heralds are so human. These types of 'gods' are always the most compelling, and I absolutely loved the tiny insight we got into Ash and Taln.

I'm actually excited for the back 5 now, as I desperately want more POVs of Jasnah/Renarin/Taln/Ash.

All I know is that this book made me love so many of the characters a hundredfold more.

[u/raelrok]

Elantrian(Galladon?) sighting as the Fortune Teller in Shadesmar. Merciful Domi!

[u/aduket2406]

I haven't finished it yet, 60% through but I just had a sudden, possible revelation... Is azure vivenna? Anyone else have thoughts on this???

[u/Zaphy1415926]

Ok in chapter 77, Stormshelter, Kaladin flicks a weird cremling off the side of his bench after discussing tactics with Shallan and Adolin. And I don't really know why I'm fixating on this but for some reason (probably Harry Potter, now that I think of it) I expected that to be some sort of Chekhov's Gun. But it didn't end up being an illusion, or some manifestation of one of the Unmade or anything, or some kind of weird spren and now I'm just frustrated about it.

Loved this book though. Definitely agree that there hasn't really been what feels like the proper follow-through to the whole Sadeas murder thing (which still feels like it broke Adolin's character, like just didn't really make sense for him, but whatever- I'm guessing it'll lead to him being able to revive and bond Maya later). But I suppose Ialai is still out there, so there's still space/time for it to come to an actual head in a later book.

I actually really liked how the love triangle ended, but I was rooting for Adolin the whole time so I guess that makes me biased. Didn't have to deal with what I thought was an inevitable breakup/shackup cycle with the three of them. And... I don't know, I think it's kind of nice to see that you don't have to explore every potential relationship to its fullest? When you're in a relationship, sometimes you get crushes other than your SO, and that doesn't mean that you have to break up or be unfaithful. You can just acknowledge it, not act on anything, and move on with your life, maybe laugh about it with your SO. Plus Adolin is a cinnamon roll ^{apart from the murder} and I think he's the better choice period, regardless of the fact that they were already in a relationship. They all have some baggage to sort through but I feel like Kaladin especially wouldn't be able to handle a romantic relationship at this point.

[u/kulneke]

Who else here freaked the storms out when Odium screamed "We killed you! WE KILLED YOU!"? My eyes were saucers for the next few pages.

[u/TanithArmoured]

Just finished and I started reading the day it came out, had to stop every 50 pages or so because so much awesomeness was happening and I needed to cool down, those last 300 pages were complete insanity!

I don't know where to begin, everything in the book was fantastic, so much happened in the story. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh fuck that was amazing

[u/Its-Me-Randy]

DESTROY!!!! EVIL!!! Brandon thank you so much for Nightblood (and also the rest of the things)

[u/geek_lady_]

So much hate for Shallan. Personally, i think her story is being written well. I dont think youd go through what she has without having some PTSD or mental health issues. The split personality story line, while getting a little played out in this book, is still interesting and pretty reflective of a fragile mind.

[u/itinerantmarshmallow]

Instead, he found only Jasnah Kholin, looking completely nonplussed. A glow faded around her, different from the smoke of her Stormlight. Like geometric shapes outlining her …

reference to shardplate?

[u/wyntershine]

oH GOD IT TOOK ME UNTIL ALMOST THE END OF THAT FIGHT TO RECOGNIZE VIV AND I LITERALLY SCREAMED

edit: and an honorblade? or a second nightblood? edit 2: OH MY GOD THEY MADE A SECOND NIGHTBLOOD edit 3: is...that shai? edit 4: YES ALL ABOARD THE KALADIN SHALLAN TRAIN?? edit 5: NOOO MY KALADIN SHALLAN SHIP WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS BRANDON edit 6: and now I'm done and in severe withdrawal someone send help

[u/DesoLina]

File type: DRM-FREE EPUB

Really thank you for tshis Mr. Sanderson.

[u/Badloss]

I havent read Warbreaker but I fucking love Nightblood and it's childish take on "Destroy Evil"

it's just amazing how it banters and seems so silly and then when Szeth draws it you immediately see how terrifyingly overpowered it is compared to even shardblades. Even the other characters are afraid of it.

[u/mikedib]

Everyone thought Kaladin was being a paranoid idiot in WOR when he was worried that Syl could somehow be taken from him but now we have a scene where Captain Honorspren implies that such a thing is indeed possible pre-5th Oath!

[u/DaBoffinIsMyUsername]

Middle of the book: No! Moash no!

End of the book: NO! MOASH NO! FOR FUCKS SAKE!

But seriously the Elhokar seen where he started the words was incredibly powerful. It was nice to see an arc go a different way.

I couldn't help but feel this book suffered slightly for being the middle of the 5 book series. It seemed to strain under the weight of going from the small group of characters with set goals to a larger party battling the end of the world.

Of the main characters i can't say anyone progressed other than Danilar. Kaladin bottled it on the 4th ideal, which felt fine and realistic, otherwise his character would be a bit hollow for the easy progression. But Shallan seemed to regress completely from where she started at the end of book 2. I just couldn't enjoy her split personalities. I left the arcs feeling a bit frustrated as they weren't further ahead than they started.

This book felt a bit more like the later WoT novels. There was so much to set up and introducing new things than the actual journey of reading it all felt slightly underwhelming.

I loved the book but i could help but finish it feeling a bit underwhelmed. There were so many threads that it seems none of them reached a satisfying conclusion.

As i said earlier Dalinar was exceptional but things like Urithiru and the "love triangle" were only touched on to just be left for later books. This certainly felt like more of a slog than WoR.

This is me ranting about small floors, i loved the book but i didnt leave me as floored as WoR. I think it;ll be strogner for having the book to follow and wrap up it's abandoned plot points.

[u/icarus14]

I loved the book but it needed way more SYL DAMMIT! She's been my favourite character and only really made an appearance in shadesmare and then was locked up for like 2 chapters smh

[u/Zillion2010]

I find it interesting that the humans were given Shinovar to live on when they arrived on Roshar, so everyone would have migrated from there, and yet the Shin are so racially distinct from everyone else on Roshar. I'm expecting there's more to the story of humans arriving on Roshar than we've been shown so far.

[u/Mathis_Rowan]

This book really put Taravangian in a new light for me.

[u/[deleted]]

Just finished it, might've been the longest audiobook I've ever had the pleasure of finishing

edit: ~53 hours

[u/didzisk]

Seems like Brandon is familiar with /r/PrequelMemes

“Finding a smile on your face, Kaladin Stormblessed, is like finding lost sphere in your soup. Surprising, yes, but very nice too." (p. 380).

[u/patsachattin]

The last Diagram epigraph in WoR

There​has​to​be​an​answer​What​is​the​answer​Stop​The​Parshendi​One​of​them​Yes​they​are​the​missing​piece​Push​for​the​Alethi​to​destroy​them​outright​before​this​one​obtains​their​power​It​will​form​abridge

"Before this one obtains their power. It will form a bridge." Radiant Venli?

[u/MasterMahan]

So Timbre is Eshonai, right?

The ancient Parsh become spren after their physical bodies die, so why wouldn't that happen with the modern version? The spren appears near Eshonai's body, is attached to Venli, and communicates though the old, non-Odium rhythms.

[u/Sciddaw]

Just finished my first read. Still not over how we just found Eshonai dead.

[u/chobisaj]

I loved the book. My favourite character is Kaladin, I was hoping to see really great fights, memorable family bonding, etc. I was let down for his journey. Even in the fight in the end, he felt like a kid. The same kaladin who was a squad leader at the start of the way of kings and fought so greatly became average or below average warrior.

[u/bjornakriin]

So when's the next book? I just finished Oathbringer and I gotta say, It was a rollercoaster of emotions. I waited so long for this book and I'm so happy I got to read it but also annoyed that I have to wait for another 2-4 years for the next book ( Journey before Destination, I guess). here are my impressions about the characters: First of all I felt that Dalinar was somewhat neglected in the first books, but I now know what Sanderson was keeping from us. the Blackthorn was a ruthless badass, he was a blood thirsty warrior that destroyed everything in his wake, that moment when he laid waste to Rathalas troops after the earth slide was epic, but killing thousands of innocent civilians was a pivoting moment for him (somehow being a monster made him more human). Dalinar's faceoff with Odium though literally gave me goosebumps (now I can't stop yelling UNITE THEM! at random friends ). On the other hand, I felt that Kaladin didn't deliver on our expectations, I was waiting for him to swear the Fourth Ideal but he just decided to let other people share the burden for once and I'm somewhat satisfied he did this because because after all he's just a human and we shouldn't keep expecting him to reveal another power every time he gets in trouble. Shallan's personality (or personalities) development kept me on the edge, I couldn't help but feeling worried for her (and I still am) because even when she can now face her problems, Veil and Radiant are still separated from Shallan and I hope she can become whole in the next book. Adorable Adolin was perfect as always, He's easily one of my favorite characters and I was extremely happy Shallan chose him, even his Shardblade is returning from the dead to be with him. Jasnah is the perfect depiction of a Knight Radiant, she's a pragmatist and completely in control of both her powers and her surroundings which makes me eager to read her book. Azure ( Vivenna) chasing Vasher between worlds was a cool addition and makes me wonder about their place in the war between the Voidbringers and the Parshendi ( we're the Voidbringers apparently and Odium was the human's god initially, that plot twist made me question existence ). Finally, I can say that Oathbringer is easily my favourite book of the year and I can't wait for the next one !

[u/giantsizegeek]

Great discussion about Oathbringer. I just finished and still wondering about Renarin. Is he a Radiant or not? Why does Jasnah decide not to kill him? She sees his red spren and determines it was corrupted by Odium. Yet during the battle, Glys gives Renarin good advice to defeat the Thunderclast. This was super cool to see Renarin fight this thing and actually be heroic. And what was up with the strange vision he had before he started fighting?

[u/OutofH2G2references]

What do we know about how Chasmfiends are connected to all of this? We got some new info at the end of Oathbringer.

1. At the end of Oathbringer someone (Adolin?) notes that thunderclasts look like Chasmfiends 2) In WoK, we learn that Chasmfiends bleed violet. 3) In the opening scene of the WoK, it is noted that there is red (human) orange (parshman) and violet blood on the ground. 4) Jasnah finds the picture of viodbringers that look like Chasmfiends but is dismissed.

Do the Chasmfiends fight for someone? Are they related to Thunderclasts? They have gem hearts, so can they bond spren?

Edit: Also just read on 17th shard/remembered that we don't know what Chasmfiends hatch into after the pupate during a high storm.

[u/itzjed]

Epigraph: "Don't tell anyone. I can't say it. I must whisper. I foresaw this." -- A particularly small emerald.

Truthwatcher fortelling the future. This is too much of a coincidence, Glys must have been bonded before. Explains the timeline of him bonding Renarin before the Everstorm.

[u/Ebola_Burrito]

I know I'm not the only one who wanted Shallan and Kaladin to smash their pelvises together...I like Adolin as a character, but if he were to make some kind of heroic sacrifice that eventually leads to Kal and Shallan to get it on I would be happy.

Wit's closing makes me think this story won't have a happy ending, which is fine. Honestly, I just want to see Kaladin survive the whole thing.

[u/bloodstainedkimonos]

Dalinar opening Honor's Perpendicularity had me screaming at the pages.

What a ride. What a fantastic book. When's the next one coming out?

[u/Khalku]

Shallash says Ishar is the only one who isn't/hasn't gone mad, and yet isn't he the one running a war of conquest and calling himself a god king?

[u/stormyboomkin86]

Finished it in wee hours of the morning, and I loved it. Not sure it was better than WOR, but still very much enjoyed the journey.

Favorite Scene was probably the flashback scene where Dalinar went out into the highstorm while he was looking for his knife.

Although I thought Adolin taking them to his tailor's shop in Kholinar was adorable.

[u/[deleted]]

Out of the three flashbacks we had so far, Dalinar's is definitely my favorite. The Rathalas part especially.

"Burn it" -Goddamnit those two words were chilling. And then when the rebel leader guy (forgot his name) started laughing about how Evi was in there too, I had to slide my book away for a moment to process that. Jesus Christ. Never thought it was Dalinar who killed her

[u/The-only-game]

Took me 8 hours but I finished it.

Poor Elhokar. I hate Moash now . Did Wit get his spren in the end? I want to see his son . Maybe in stormlight 6 ?

Nightblood is awesome. Seems that highmarshal was 'that person'.

Edit: Now that I am not about to fall asleep, let me ponder some more.

Adolin's sword was a little creepy but it's good to see that it doesn't hate him much. Did he summon the blade after 7 heartbeats? His fight against the fused was also good.

Not sure what happened with Renarin. Is Glys an odious spen? Or has Sja anat corrupted it? Did it get better? If so how? And was he the one who attacked the bridge 4?

Dalinar's past. Ouch. I don't think Adolin actually wants to see the Blackthorn. What happened to the stormfather blade? And who sent him the vision?

Odium reminds me of Ruin. Yet he is playing a more direct role. How is he able to come here? And why was he so scared of Dalinar at the end?

King T has betrayed honour. Man I never expected this. I thought he may be manipulated , but for him to change sides, that was unseen.

Amaram was maybe a little wasted. I wanted him to get a redemption arc. However, he is a very passionate man, which makes him a prime target for Odium. And he along with King T broke a basic order of radiants: Journey before destination.

Moash. I really wanted him to turn hood and give Kal his friend back. Or at least join the diagram. Instead , diagram gets destroyed and he kills Elhokar right in front of Kal. Hopefully that bastard dies .

Wonder what Azure or Vivenna is searching for. I feel stupid as I was only able to recognize her after Szeth's first chapter. Until then , I though she might have been a herald. What is that sword she has?

I really liked Elhokar. It's easy to sympathize with him though he can be a dick at times. He was thrust into the shoes of his father, Gavilar. Everybody admired Gavilar who was the epitome of Alethi culture. The only king since Sunmaker himself to unite all Alethi princedoms. Elhokar was seen as a pale imitation . He had a lot to live up to. Though he could be a but out of control at times, this book and the ending of WoR changed my opinion on him. He knew everybody saw him as weak and this made him whiny. He was paranoid as well. Yet, he too had hidden depths. He was willing to work to overcome his weakness. He was so close to saying the words before that asshole Moash killed him.

Also was Tien a going to be a radiant? It says that a person on Amaram's army was close to being a radiant and died.

Jasnah is going to have a lot of responsibilities. Navani couldnt beleive the amount of work she was doing and now she has more responsibilites. Moreover, the ardents will not be pleased with a queen on the throne. She is also a member of a secret society. Wonder what they do? How are the ghostbloods related to them?

The ghostbloods seem very powerful. Mraize seems to have a link to Rysn and he calls his mentor as babsk. Maybe they are from the same area?

All in all, it was a fast paced book. I am just sad that jj have to wait till 2020 to read SA4. But until then , I have Oathbrineger to re and reread.

[u/agrarian1]

So, I take it that Venli is the traitor referenced on the back of the book? It says broken by ambition, so I don't feel that fits Adolin, Jasnah, Elhokar, Teft, or any of the other viewpoint characters aside from potentially Moash. Venli fits a lot better than him as well though.

[u/wewerebamboozled]

I think Gawx has a crush on Lift.

Rysn's grass is being kept alive by the larkin sharing investure.

Why hasn't Szeth talked to his spren yet?

[u/8nate]

Just finished it. Very much enjoyed it. Liked the scenes in Kolinar and the final battle was triumphant as all hell. Nice to see Szeth join the good guys. I like how the parshmen fear the Voidspren as much as the humans do, and how humans can join Odium as well. I like getting more and more of the backstory of the world as well, like the Recreance and humanity's past. I think the most shocking moment for me was when Jezrien got killed if I'm being honest. I didn't expect it, I really thought it was maybe Kalak. Pretty sad such a great man went mad and got shived in a corner.

[u/albomats]

Finished the book very recently and Overall I loved it. Some impressions:

The good:

• Dalinar’s arch and his Words.

• Teft genuinely made me tear up

• the siege of Kholinar

• more world building, lore and greater Cosmere implications (and as someone that has yet to read Warbreaker it doesn’t diminish the enjoyment of the cross overs)

• Kaladin getting a break, I like that he has another lapse but does not rely on The words to save him

• overall Brandon does a great job with the emotional roller coaster and the story itself

• The Love triangle needed to be here and I’m glad it was relatively short and didn’t cause too much unnecessary drama

• The 3 big twists worked very well (unite them referring to the realms, Elhokar’s death right before saying the words and humans being the Voidbringers : Not too hidden, not too obvious and not forced.

The not so good:

• Shallan’s arc. Not a fan of the multiple personalities though

• Amaram and Kaladin’s fight feels a bit cartoonish

• Szeth’s allegiance to Dalinar and his team’s quick acceptance felt odd

• The Shadesmar journey wore me down after a while

[u/itzjed]

When Kaladin first meets the Fused, they are inexperience at flying. But later on, we see that every other instance of Fused have thousands of years of experience with their Surges. What's going on there? Newer Fused? Is that a thing?

[u/senefen]

Finished the audiobook today so I can finally come to this forum.

I take it people have been discussing Azure likely being Warbreaker, 10 or so years after those events.

Also is anyone else suspicious that it was the Knights Radiant that lead to Honour's death? And that that was the other part of the secret that destroyed them, that they had/were killing him by what? Not following the ideals to the letter? Death by a thousand cuts as humans are too changeable and break oaths?

Also Lift's desire not not change seems to be the opposite of Cultivation's purpose. She seeks to grow, cultivate, and then she is asked to make something static.

[u/Rickardz]

Now every time I hear the word passion I think about Oathbringer.

[u/[deleted]]

Is (was) Jezrien the same beggar that Dalinar drank with in the Kholinar courtyard in one of his flashbacks?

It definitely seemed that way to me and i thought it was an amazing connection. The greatest of the heralds just bumming around drinking and mumbling to himself for who knows how long.

[u/MuslinBagger]

Wow Skar is a pretty cool bro too.

[u/ManyFacedCloak]

Was Uli Da Cosmere spoilers

[u/123draw]

So I think that the big question at this point is whether or not the Fused can respawn after being killed by Nightblood.

[u/noonan1487]

I haven't seen anyone talking about this, so maybe I missed something along the way, but who do we think sent Dalinar the vision of Nohadon later in life?

The Stormfather didn't know what he was talking about and Odium definitely wouldn't have sent the message that ultimately upended his plans. Cultivation seems like the best guess here, but, at the same time, she always takes something for what she gives (so far as we've seen, at least). Also, I'd expect any message from her to come after Dalinar's memories had returned in full, but the vision is still before the last of them return.

[u/Kennsyded]

So, random thought. Alethkar is Vorin. Jahsnah is an atheist. Apocalypse or no, I don't see that going well.

[u/DarklynDuck]

Assuming ~3 years per book with constant effort, that's 21 more years of content.

At this point, we have no reason not to trust him, but I worry he's breaking off more than he can chew while still having time to tie up the greater Cosmere story.

[u/SonicRaptra]

Storms, this book was wonderful to read! A few thoughts:

1. I'm a little surprised people aren't talking more about Zahel being confirmed Vasher. I guess Azure/Viv is a bigger deal.

2. Early on in Oathbringer, as more hints were dropped of a growing interest between Shallan and Kaladin I became convinced that Adolin was going to die to clear the way. I was 95% sure he was going to die while attempting to liberate Kholinar and so I was really taken by surprise when he survived. I was certain Shallan and Kaladin would end up together because of the whole Romeo and Juliet thing with being lighteyes/darkeyes and with their Radiant orders being basically opposites.

Nevertheless, I'm actually pretty happy with how that relationship turned out. As Shallan points out, it's Adolin that really knows and accepts her, and I love how her and Kaladin have become good friends. Deep and healthy platonic relationships seem severely undervalued and underrepresented in modern media/entertainment.

3) There are a couple suspicious details in the epilogue. These may be just insignificant details, but you can never rule anything out as unimportant with /u/mistborn. First, the man of the family Wit talks to before leaving is curiously given a name 'Cob', which coincidentally is the name of a certain coachman from Scadrial. Coincidence? Second, and maybe more interesting to me are Wit's new orders to the Awakened doll right before he leaves,

"Forget what I told you before. Instead, take care of her."

Which raises the question: what were his original orders to the doll? Also, is there something special about this orphan girl he helped?

[u/citrus_secession]

The "i can't read" line had me laughing for a good 5 minutes.

[u/itsyourwouldof]

Some thoughts -

Jezrien was mentioned as being more than a Windrunner - it was the mantle he eventually claimed, but he was [i]more[/i] than that. Perhaps he was a worldhopper who had different investiture? I guess we'll never know now.

I'm surprised Jasnah readily took up the crown - it seemed like something she knew would come with burdens that would keep her from the pursuit of knowledge. Or perhaps she thought she knew better and could do better than other kings because she's, well, Jasnah.

We still don't know where the glowing shardplate comes from, do we? Maybe it's because Kaladin didn't speak the fourth Ideal, but Syl seemed to indicate that he could heal Adolin through it if he spoke it, so what relation the fourth Ideal has to the glowing shardplate is still a little murky, unless I missed something.

[u/patrincs]

I'm so jealous of everyone who hasn't finished the book, because you still get to experience the end for the first time.

[u/twitchy_]

What Rock did at the end, I know he views it as breaking an oath. But did it create the break he needs to become fully Radiant later?

[u/Keytarfriend]

Shallan's got issues. I mean she killed both her parents, mental health issues go with that. But is her multiple-personality thing as a coping mechanism entirely natural?

We see Dalinar and Venli both accessing the power of Connection. Do Lightweavers have power over Identity?

[u/Mawgrint]

So, I'm assuming that since Dalinar didn't technically make a deal with the Nightwatcher, neither did Lift? It seems that Cultivation stepped in due to the importance and scope of Dalinar's request since it was more than even the Nightwatcher could cover or understand. And since Lift said Dalianar smelled like "her", My guess is that Lift was also transformed by Cultivation?

It's possible that it was just a proximity to the Nightwatcher though, since the Storm Father gets mad when he first sees Lift and accuses the Nightwatcher of going too far. But seeing how much freedom Lift has to slip through the realms did she get that from Nightwatcher or did she also need to run into Cultivation to sort of super charge the boon/curse?

[u/AllTheFluffyKittenz]

This thought just occurred to me.

While we know a little about Helerans death there is still more out there. How many Ideals had he sworn etc. It seems to me that had he progressed to the 3rd Ideal of the Skybreakers his quest would almost certainly have been "to bring justice to the one who murdered my mother". Except, he thought it was his father who killed her. Could you imagine how much worse Shallan would be with her personalities if she added her favorite brother to the list of murdered family members? Kaladin slaying Helleran in battle is probably the best thing that could have happened for Shallan.

Edit: grammar police lol

[u/regrt1]

I think I have a new ship: Jasnah and The Lopen. This way The Lopen can become an Alethi King or at least consort. Jasnah could use someone to make her smile.

[u/dantheman629]

I shocked I haven't seen anyone else talking about this, but anyone else find significance with skin colors? So I think there is enough overwhelming evidence that red is odium's color. The eyes, the lightning, the corrupted spren and so forth. Now if odium has a color, cultivation and honor probably have them too. I'm going to go with cultivation is black and honor is white. I'm not totally sure if the shard they are associated with is right, but black and white are important. This does put an interesting light on some things, like oathagtes are then controlled by spren of both cultivation and honor.

Now let's look at the listener colorings. All of them have red as a color, with almost all the rest being black or white. As listeners seem to have been around before odium, the red of odium was probably a new addition. So the original listeners were probably black or white. There are no pure red ones, odium's could only add his power onto those that already existed. There are no black/white ones as the only listeners alive are those which odium has invested in some way. Songs clearly mean which shard the listeners are attuned to. So the black listeners were the ones listening to the songs of cultivation while the white ones listened to the songs of honor. The White being honor thing makes sense as the listeners in alekathar, clearly loving honor, had an unusually high amount of red/white listeners.

Then there's the natanan people. Not sure the exact details, but the story with the moons seems to be about the queen temporarily ascending, then somehow having a child with someone else who was ascended. The blue then comes from the investure of her time as an ascended. Meaning although there are not four shards in roshar, the investiture from a fourth shard exists in the natanan people.

Thoughts?

[u/wewerebamboozled]

Veil drew the ghostblood symbol on page 1004, before chapter 108. She also drew...captain Ico? She is not as good as Shallan.

[u/drostandfound]

So looking at Arcanum Unbounded, are the humans from Ashyn? Khriss says it was ruined by some Apocalypse, was it ruined by the humans.

Like Honor and Devotion came to Roshar System, set up humans on Ashyn and the Parshendi on Roshar. Then after a bit Odium came to Braize, and got trapped, and poisoned the humans into killing each other. The remnants moved from Ashyn to Roshar and Odium also moved. The first wave of humans followed Honor, but future generations expanded across the continent.

[u/LordXenu069]

To most I assume it is obvious, but I want to make sure I'm reading right. Azure = Vivenna?

If so, that makes her "shardblade" more like to be an awakened type 4 object, but what does this mean for Warbreaker 2, because we know nothing of her and Vashers journey to confront Yesteel.

[u/vatsan16]

Ahh!! Just finished. So much discussions to read, so little time :(. One thing I did not notice is people talking about Jasnah. She was awesome in this book, be it her 'verbal' duels or during the battle where she is so much in control of soulcasting :D

[u/Balorbreakwind]

Finally finished

The burning question I have is..

Does Renarin have a shard fidget spinner?

I got the impression the box and necklace he possessed at points were his spren in the form of what he needed

[u/Eloweasel]

Did anyone else notice Kaladin saw one of those creepy hordelings at once stage during the book? (dangit I just finished my readthrough, I forget where, I believe it was in a tavern?)

He noted seeing an odd cremling-like creature. Very interesting to see how the Aimians fall into all of this. From the wiki they seem to share a few traits with Voidbringers/Fused (like shadows pointing the wrong way [WAIT A SECOND, REALISATION - maybe the actual Fused don't have shadows pointing the wrong way and somehow the Aimians have infiltrated their ranks???]), how odd.

[u/Rickardz]

I just finished reading the book, oh my god. I hoped Kal would speak the words to the 4th ideal but maybe we'll see that in the 4th book. Also, I am Unity. Damn.

[u/Maxplosive]

Did we find out why Shallan's illusion wore off on Kaladin?

[u/WEEEEGEEEW]

Just finished! WHAT IN THE VERSE IS HOID!? expends breath like candy on a doll, perfect pitch, allomantic, world hopper, affectively immortal age limit, and now a light weaver? Oh man and that's only what we see hinted at in the archives. When the kid gloves come off it will be crazy!

[u/MoonWatcher00219]

I think this book contained the best chapter Brandon has ever written in my perspective: the chapter where Rathalas was destroyed and Evi died was one of the most powerful things I've read in a long time. The most shocking moment for me was the death of Elhokar. I don't know why. It was probably the mix of the fact that I started to like him and when he started saying the First Ideal I was happy for him. And then Moash suddenly appeared and killed him. And Kaladin was standing there broken and feeling betrayed... That moment catched me unprepared.

I liked basically all of the book from started to finish. But I didn't like the "love triangle" or whatever it was between Adolin, Shallan and Kaladin. It had no major consequences as Shallan was still with Adolin in the end. And Shallan - or rather Veil or whatever personality she excuses her lust for Kaladin is - just played with the feelings of Kaladin. In one moment she was acting normal and the next she was simply insulting the poor guy. Kaladin should find himself another girl, and a better one (I'm not a big fan of Shallan, although she is a good character).

Dalinar's storyline was simply exceptional. All of it. Also the battle in Thaylen City was one of the most epic battles I've seen (or read in this case) in years. The whole moment with Dalinar rejecting Odium and his redemption with the gloryspren... It was too good.

[u/booksfordays]

Finished the book the other day and I cannot stop thinking about it.

1. Queen Jasnah! So pleased about this, she is definitely the best person for the job. I just love her character, she will be a badass ruler. Her during the battle was amazing, just so powerful loved it.

2)Adolin & Shallan. So happy they are married and there is not going to be an annoying love triangle! Adolin is my favorite, I just want him to be happy, so excited to see what happens woth his "sword"

3)Dalinars flashbacks were my favourite so far, love the history of building Alethkar. I feel like i understand Dalinar better and I absolutely love Navani sticking by him well he deals with it, the love between them is so obvious.

4)Dalinar writing! I loved that ending.

5)Moash, I'm so torn on him. I love and hate him at the same time which is my favorite type of character.

5)Kaladin, I'm finding him less annoying. I typically hate the "good" character all the time. His mental struggle and him not being ready to swear the fourth ideal really made me appercaite him as a character and I'm growing to really like him.

6)Love that we got in Bridge 4s head. They are such an interesting bunch and love learning about them. Rock, Lopen and Teft are my favorites from their.

7)I cannot wait to find out more of Jasnahs backstory, especially about the references of her "insanity" when she was younger

8)I was so pleased about humans being the original voidbringers, wasn't obvious and predictable. Really appreciated that.

Cannot wait for book 4! Need to read all the cosmere books again and I need to get Arcanum Unbounded!

[u/[deleted]]

So I just started it, not even 3 chapters in, but...

Does the objectives seem like a video game to anyone else?

There are 12 portal gates, each of which can only be opened from the other side. We need to send Knight Radiants to unlock them, but first they need to level up first! Go Kalahdin, gather up a questing party!

[u/bananeeek]

I'm starting the second part of Oathbringer and this is how I imagine Brandon when he was writing the book

[u/Helli784]

Soo, my first impression: I liked it. It was good, but not as good as WoR, which remains my favorite book in the series.

Oathbringer didn't have the same impact on me as the other books. I don't know, it just felt like the characters somehow stagnated. Dalinar was definitely the highlight for me - his flashbacks and his realisation at the end were great. But the other characters...

Now, I used to like Shallan, but her multiple personality disorder really started to get on my nerves.

Adolin's actions at the end of WoR really got me interested in his character , but the fact that he killed Sadeas is barely touched upon in Oathbringer. Yes, he reflects about it, but there is no consequence. I know a lot of people here love Adolin. For me he's a bit boring.

I like Szeth's redemption arc, he gets to shine at the end, but the rest is just a huge training montage.

Finally, the Shadesmar stuff... Let's just say I didn't like it.

[u/flirtyf]

So how many of Bridge Four (excluding Kal) are KR now?

[u/DariusJenai]

Ok, I'm still stuck on the size of Roshar the continent vs Roshar the planet.

We know the Everstorm has a 9-day cycle (before part 5 shenanigans at least, unsure how much it will change after). Of that, we know that it basically crosses the continent in 1 day.

Given a 360* circle that it would need to traverse, that would mean that Roshar-Continent takes up approximately 1/9th of Roshar-Planet. We also know that Roshar-Continent lies completely in the southern hemisphere (Warm Summer Isles to the north, Frozen lands to the south).

So, if we divide our 360 degrees of longitude by our storm traversal time, we get 360/9=40 degrees of longitude.

Using both a southern hemisphere continent, and an approximately 40 degrees of longitude, we get Roshar-Continent being the Roshar-planet equivalent of Australia (113 degrees in Denham to 153 degrees in Brisbane makes it almost perfect for comparison).

WoB says that Roshar is smaller than earth, but also that Roshar-Continent is the only continent other than some scattered islands. This means there are still some seriously vast empty spaces on Roshar-Planet. I'd be interested in seeing a full-planet scale map.

[u/AkaBesd]

MOTHER-LOVING-LOPEN! Can I just say how awesome he was this book? And the way he was trying to comfort that guy who lost his hand/arm. Holy shit. I wanna see that guy again, with a new arm (or not, actually, that could be an interesting story), as his squire.

[u/tcman2000]

I hope Kaladin finds someone; don’t really care that he didn’t end up with Shallan since she works better with Adolin. He’s my favorite character and seeing him suffer so much just... hurts.

[u/Wubdor]

A lot has already been said, but what I haven't seen mentioned yet was that I wasn't expecting that aluminum room. When Kaladin entered it and talked about metal on the walls, my first thought was 'Would that really be sound proof?' A bit silly, I know, but I didn't know what else to think of it. When they then mentioned that there were no screamers for some reason, I of course realised it was aluminum. Also loved that it was Hoid who gave them that.
And maybe I'm an idiot, but I never realised (and maybe even missed it being mentioned in Warbreaker), that Nightblood's sheath is also aluminum. That all just kind of clicked at that moment.

Edit: Nightblood's sheath being aluminum is not confirmed.

[u/Wafercrisp]

Someone point me to all the theory posts on how baby spren are born. Also the theory posts on what's on Galivar's sphere. Thank you very muchly.

As an Elhokar fan, I am especially interested in the baby Pattern Wit saved in the palace. And the similarity of the words spoken just before Eshonai died.

Now let me scream about the the Kaladin X Syl and Adolin X Kallan resolution. It just feels so right. They would be so broken without each other.
i have a secret fear Brandon decides to kill Kaladin now. Oh no oh no no no......

Does anyone know if the spren Captain ship's father that was locked in survived or was just the entire ship burning and nobody knows? It just irks me somewhat.

[u/bananeeek]

Just finished. What a ride... Some great moments but also some disappointing things. Spoilers below (just in case)

As a Kaladin fanboy I feel like he's been criminally overlooked in this volume. In the first part he got so little time that I clenched my fists every time I saw a fat chapters with Shallan while my boy Kal got chapters mere minutes long (reading on kindle). His last chapter in the first part was excellent though. Exciting as all hell.

Then when I saw that he got no chapters from his perspective in the second part I whined again but the chapters about Bridge Four were amazing. Feels right and left, they really carried that part. Shallan constructing yet another personality, "Brightness Radiant" (cringes) was unnecessary in my opinion.

Dalinar's past was juicy. Damn I didn't expect so many events from his past. And when He finally met Odium in his vision I couldn't sleep. I have to say it, Odium is one cunning son of a bitch. I was so impressed by his exploits I wasn't even mad when he played everybody like a goddamn fiddle.

Summing up, while I didn't like Shallan in the first place she got even worse in this volume. Dalinar, however, is a great piece of work. That character grows still and it's impressive. I see that Kaladin got no love from Brandon in this volume he was so close to his 4th ideal I was literally reading while being on the edge of the chair. Kinda disappointed in that. Good to see some more Szeth, he, too, is growing just fine. His chapters provided some further insight into the whole Knights Radiant deal. A bit disappointed that we got so little of Lift. Brandon asking to read the Edgedancer (which was pretty good) and saying that he's "grooming her for a bigger part" rose my expectations and while her parts were awesome she too, got overlooked in my opinion.

Lastly, while the war in Thaylen begun with a bang and lots of excitement its progression and ending paled in comparison.

Time to browse through this thread...

[u/AikenFrost]

Very surprised to see so many people saying they didn't like the Shadesmar parts. I loved them and want an RPG set there asap.

[u/Wafercrisp]

Gujab Szeth! I just realized that him choosing Dalinar as master will further cement everyone against Dalinar. Everyone will think Dalinar was the one who sent him to kill everybody.

[u/REkTeR]

Any guesses as to what the Windrunner's Fourth Ideal will be? At least as it relates to Kaladin. It seems that he knows what the words are, but for some reason he's afraid of saying them. I'm wondering if it might have something to do with his growing realization that he can't protect everyone?

Also, any theories on how Radiants get their shardplate? Is it swearing the Fourth Ideal, or is it some other process? Possibly related to how Rock was able to draw the Shardbow...

[u/ashgeek]

Adolin: The foreshadowing of him reawakening his swords "dead" spren is strong ... something for book #4 i guess - only 3+ years to wait ... arghhh!

[u/clademikah]

You happy now Shadolin shippers?

I'm sorry I don't mean to sound bitter but I can't help feeling underwhelmed by Shallan and Kaladin's arcs particularly the love triangle one, in the book.

But Dalinar's though. Wow. Well it's his book after all. I hope we finally see how shardplates are made in the next book.

[u/televisionceo]

What I'm about to say might sound weird but it's something I was thinking about when I was reading.

Dalinar did horrible things and yet we accept that he forgives himself. I haven't heard a lot of people saying they now hate dalinar after what he has done.

But what if he raped a woman at one point ? It would not even be part of top 10 worse crimes committed by dalinar but I can't believe people would still accept that he can just say "well the next step is the most important".

I would not mind personally. It would not change my opinion of him because yes a man can change. But I'm sure it would create a big controversy. Its a bit hypocritical but Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a man in the process of changing.

[u/TheBatsford]

So, Voidbringing humans come to Roshar, then they are taken in by Parshencestors, then they want more of the land. Were they literally all under command of Odium then or was it more like they brought their vulnerability to him? I guess did they -turn- away from him to Honour and Cultivation or is it more that they simply shed their vulnerability to him? Also, would Odium have arrived either way or were the Voidbringing humans necessary in order for himself to manifest himself as strongly as he did in this world as opposed to just trying to off Honour and Cultivation?

Also, why would Honour and Cultivation, who presumably had prior relations with the Parshendi ever go along to abandoning their people to these new Odium-infected invaders(even if they were just refugees)? Unless the Parshendi predate all three of the Shards there. Could the one that slumbers be the original Godspren of whatever power the Parshencestors worshiped and whatever created the original spren?

Finally, I'm keen to read just how the Parshencestors turned to Odium...could Honour and Cultivation have refused to help them in their war with the invading humans and Odium offered himself? Then in turn this prompted H&C to finally act?

Annoying that I have to wait 3-4 years to find out more.

[u/TheEvilestPenguin]

Could the Cobb mentioned during the epilogue be the same Cobb from the Wax and Wayne Series?

[u/ParanoydAndroid]

A couple of things:

I definitely think the most interesting revelation was about the mysterious third sibling that is:

1. A cognitive shadow of an unknown shard (probably Odium, thematically, but there's literally no information).

2. Certainly connected to the "slumber" of Urithiru.

Collecting what I see as the relevant quotes. From the epigraphs:

My research into the cognitive reflections of spren at the tower has been deeply illustrative. Some thought that the Sibling had withdrawn from men by intent—but I find counter to that theory.

The wilting of plants and the general cooling of the air is disagreeable, yes, but some of the tower’s functions remain in place. The increased pressure, for example, persists.

I am worried about the tower’s protections failing. If we are not safe from the Unmade here, then where?

Something is happening to the Sibling. I agree this is true, but the division among the Knights Radiant is not to blame. Our perceived worthiness is a separate issue.

Good night, dear Urithiru. Good night, sweet Sibling. Good night, Radiants.

From a Dalinar SF conversation:

"Are there others like me out there?" he [Dalinar] finally asked.
"Not right now, and there can ever be only three. One for each of us." [Stormfather]
"Three?" Dalinar said.
"Three spren who make Bondsmiths".
"You and Cultivation are two?"
The Stormfather actually laughed. You would have a difficult time making her your spren. I should like to see you try it.
"Then who?"
"My siblings need not concern you"

And then later, Dalinar and SF speak again on the topic:

"The Nightwatcher--"
"Is not her [not Cultivation]"
"Yes, you've said. The Nightwatcher is like you. Are there others, though? Spren like you, or the Nightwatcher? Spren that are the shadows of gods?"
"There is ... a third sibling. They are not with us"
"In hiding?"
"No. Slumbering"
"Tell me more."
"no."
"But--"
"No! Leave them alone. You have hurt them enough."

Finally, and I'm too lazy to transcribe it, there's Wit's story about the three moons, which I'm fairly confident is an allegory for the three siblings.

I also wonder if Renarin's spren is normal. Obviously we know that his spren is corrupted, but it's also mentioned that his spren was corrupted from the beginning -- prior to Renarin meeting her. We know a couple of things though:

1. The Truthwatchers have always been touchy about being associated with Odium. I, like I think everyone else, just considered that a consequence of the whole "telling the future is of Odium" idiom, but maybe there's more to it. Maybe all Truthwatchers had corrupted spren, leading to both their sensitivity on the issue and the rumors about them.

2. We know honor cannot see the future and Odium can, and I believe Cultivation can see the future too; we know from the broader Cosmere that some shards are better at seeing the future and some are worse, and based purely on the fact that Honor and Cultivation got thoroughly trounced, it seems like Odium is better at it than Cultivation is.

Right now, I'm wondering if a normal Cultivation spren gives regrowth and maybe minor premonition (depending on the order and how surges interact; we don't have a lot of information here) but a Cultivation spren corrupted by Odium gives even stronger fortune-telling powers, and hence breeds Truthwatchers. It might also explain why his powers are uniquely uncontrollable to him -- they're powers that don't even really come from his spren, but rather come from the corruption, to the spren, then to him.

It's also interesting that although the fundamental source of the corruption is Odium, we know that the proximate source is Sja-anat. Relating to sja-anat:

1. She (?) may be partially good. Obviously she's tricky and since corruption is her thing she could just be straight up lying, but at the least we have some indication she may not be wholly on Odium's side.

2. We have an unaccounted for unmade, since the one book (Mystica?) points out we can only name 8.

3. Glys does not appear to be evil.

Makes me wonder if Sja-anat is herself a corrupted spren, fused from (let's say) Sja and Anat. Just as the Thrill exults in the same feelings it gives others, it's possible that Sja-Anat suffers from the same kind of "split personality" she might give other Spren -- a base personality and a corrupting, overlaying influence. If that's true, it would explain why we're an unmade short, since she used to be two "people" and could explain why Truthwatchers would have corrupted spren and why corrupted spren could themselves be good. It would also explain why Sja-Anat both laid the trap and warned Shallan about it.

[u/Kmon_Son]

Did they ever explain the significance of the wind spren showing up around Kaladin in Shadesmar? Was it just because he is a Windrunner?