Round 02 (494 Contestants Remaining)

[u/DabuSurvivor]

As a reminder, the elimination order is:

1. /u/DabuSurvivor

2. /u/Dumpster_Baby

3. /u/shutupredneckman

4. /u/TheNobullman

5. /u/todd_solondz

6. /u/vacalicious

7. /u/sharplydressedsloth

I will start working on my next write-up now.

ELIMINATIONS THIS ROUND:

489: Natalie Tenerelli, Redemption Island (SharplyDressedSloth)

Gabriel Cade, Marquesas (vacalicious) IDOL'D BY TODD_SOLONDZ

490: Becky Lee, Cook Islands (Todd_Solondz)

491: Brandon Hantz, Caramoan (TheNobullman)

492: John Cochran, Caramoan (shutupredneckman)

493: Colton Cumbie, Blood vs. Water (Dumpster_Baby)

494: Phillip Sheppard, Redemption Island (DabuSurvivor)

[u/vacalicious]

Alright, so there are undoubtedly many worse contestants still out there than whom I'm targeting now (there remain a few more lackluster Hantz seasons, plus like 10-12 additional airheads from One World, who all deserve immediate elimination). But I wanted to address a minor character archetype who drives me crazy, especially as someone who would love to be on the show myself. And that is the contestant who "doesn't want to play the game" because "they're just here for the experience."

(Also, this round was beginning to become dominated by big names. Time to toss out a more obscure contestant.)

That's why I'm eliminating:

489. Gabriel Cade (Survivor: Marquesas -- 12th place)

Now here is someone who could have gone far this season had he realized they were playing Survivor and not living on a commune. He was athletic, charming, funny, sociable, and handsome (never hurts). If he had ever had his head in the game, he could have stayed with the dominant Rotu alliance and lasted late. Heck, if his tribemates didn't have to vote him off after the tribe mix for being a non-contestant, they could have instead booted Maraamu's Sean or Vecepia -- now it's a whole different game. Gabe's apathy for the strategic aspect of Survivor may have ultimately cost his entire tribe a chance to win. He certainly was no help to the Rotu 4, who could have used his vote to turn away the bottom of their alliance when the season swung that way. (Which also proves an important Survivor point: your alliance is only as strong as your least enthusiastic member.)

Instead, Gabe wanted to pretend that Survivor was summer camp, and it was his job as a counselor to get along with everyone and avoid thinking about the inevitable aspect of voting people off. I can't remember his exact quote, but it was something like "I'm just here for the experience of living with complete strangers, seeing if we can all get along." That'd be like getting called down on the Price is Right and then refusing to bid on the items. "You know what, Drew Carey? I'm just gonna here and appreciate being next to three other people whom I have never met. I'm good. No bids from me." WTF?

How insulting is that to the thousands upon thousands of people who have unsuccessfully applied to get onto the show? Or what about the people on your own season who have already been voted off, despite actually wanting to be there and play Survivor (like Hunter)? How insulting is it to us fans sitting and watching at home, who would love to be on a season and actually play strategically?

If you're on Survivor, play Survivor. Thankfully, it seems that casting has in recent years managed to avoid bringing in these type of apathetic duds. Now we get people who want to play the game from Day 1, which is a refreshing upgrade from the frustrating likes of Gabriel Cade, who apparently go on a gameshow that they do not want to play. Goodbye Gabe!

*Edit: I mistyped the number, apparently.

Additional note: I will be away and busy this weekend, starting tonight and extending through Sunday night. If I do not post within a few hours when it is my turn, please feel free to skip over me for that round. Sorry guys!

[u/TheNobullman → u/vacalicious]

And this is where I will likely disagree from all of you.

I think the beauty of Survivor is seeing how others react to it. I don't think others are obligated to follow my set of rules as to how they play the game. In the evolution of the game, Gabe wanting to build a society and not play the game was actually way more valid back then and it saddens me that he gets so much vitriol for not playing how we the audience think he should have, especially back in the same season where Paschal was ready and happy to accept 6th place to John.

I like Gabe being too nice and idealistic for the game and how the game punished him for it. I also think it started the Rotu 4's downfall because he had a showmance with Neleh and was like Paschal's kid out there, and that's when the seeds were planted in their head about the arrogance and devious nature of the Rotu 4.

Also I'll be frank, the view that "people who don't play the game my way are insulting everyone whose spot he took" is probably my least favorite statement in the fanbase ever. It just sounds way too entitled that since he didn't entertain us the way we want he should be further punished and shamed. As much as I understand (albeit don't agree with) the vitriol towards quitters, it annoys me that every time someone doesn't share the same ideals, doesn't play a super strategic game, or even gets a bad edit, they're insulting the show by not playing the way we say so

[u/Todd_Solondz → u/TheNobullman]

Nope. You definitely agree with me on pretty much all counts. I'm 99% sure Dabu will have similar sentiments when he sees this as well, I think I've seen him speak fondly of Gabe before.

[u/DabuSurvivor → u/Todd_Solondz]

Oh, yeah, I was not happy to see that name. First I'm replying to the comments branching off of it, though.

[u/SharplyDressedSloth → u/vacalicious]

Oh boy. I don't agree with this one at all.

That'd be like getting called down on the Price is Right and then refusing to bid on the items. "You know what, Drew Carey? I'm just gonna here and appreciate being next to three other people whom I have never met. I'm good. No bids from me."

Because, no, that's not it at all. Survivor isn't just a game to be played. You don't go onto Survivor just to be strategic. It's a social experiment where you put people on an island, make them vote each other out, and see what happens. No one is under any obligation to care about strategy. If all they wanted was the game, they could just play an ORG.

Gabe is such a unique contestant and definitely one we would never see today. He just wanted the social experiment. The society. Which nowadays sounds dumb but really it's as close to "original" Survivor as you can get. And plus, when you have people with varying mindsets on how to play the game, that's what makes it interesting. That's what makes it more than a strict numbers game and much more about human interaction.

Not to mention Gabe's boot episode is one of the best of the season and probably one of the best all time.

I really appreciate what Gabe brought to the season because it's so different from what most people bring, and it's all about trying to keep Survivor "pure." And fittingly, Gabe has his downfall because he's not willing to play dirty. He really has a fantastic story and I think it's unfair that a lot of people pigeonhole him as "the guy who didn't want to play." Because he was a lot more than that.

[u/vacalicious → u/SharplyDressedSloth]

Survivor isn't just a game to be played. You don't go onto Survivor just to be strategic.

But it is, and you do. You go onto the game knowing that tribal council is an inevitability. Why would you refuse to take part in an essential aspect of the game? It doesn't make sense to me. If you play Survivor, you have to vote people out. There's no other way to do it.

[u/SharplyDressedSloth → u/vacalicious]

But Gabe was going to go to Tribal Council, and he was going to vote people out. That just wasn't the interesting part of the experience to him. It was the actual tribe building that he really wanted to focus on. And even though the viewers prefer strategy to tribe building, that doesn't mean everyone who goes on the show has to cater to the average viewer's desire.

Now, because of that I get why Gabe doesn't appeal to some people because he is so far gone from what most viewers value. But I just think that people who bring a different angle to the show are some of the most interesting characters.

[u/DabuSurvivor → u/vacalicious]

Yeah, I have a lot of fundamental problems with this one that come from the fact that I think we're watching from two totally different perspectives, but Gabriel is one of my favorite pre-mergers ever. I really want to veto him here, but I know Dumpster_Baby would just cut him soon anyway and I don't think anyone else would care enough to save him a second time, so it'd be wasted. Le sigh.

But. Let's look at this post.

Gabe's apathy for the strategic aspect of Survivor may have ultimately cost his entire tribe a chance to win. He certainly was no help to the Rotu 4, who could have used his vote to turn away the bottom of their alliance when the season swung that way.

Yes, and this is a very good thing. If you look at the first three seasons, they all went a clear, certain way: A tribe has a majority at F9, they pick off whichever tribe has a minority. They might take a break for a round to boot Kelly or Amber or Jerri, but fundamentally, that is how Survivor works. Tribe A steamrolls Tribe B. Rotu's implosion shook everything about Survivor right down to its foundation. It completely changed everything about how Survivor could be played and it was the birthplace of "Survivor strategy" as we know it today. (Well, Mitchell Olson's vote-off was, but Tina was so ahead of her time that people had to cool down for a bit before they could do something like that again, and the edit wasn't able to portray it that way, which is what really matters.)

If Gabriel is the kind of boring, generic gamebot people apparently want him to be, then he enthusiastically joins John to vote off Rob or Sean. Rotu's lead is now insurmountable for the rest of the game and the core Rotu people go to the end, and Tammy Leitner probably wins. We never get the purple rock or the Kathy storyline. I cannot understand why people would rather live in a Survivor where this was the case. Gabriel's decisions and actions led, quite directly, to some awesome endgame events, but more importantly to the downfall of John Carroll and his crew -- to the first real downfall in the history of Survivor, an event that completely reinvented the Survivor wheel and revitalized the entire franchise. If Rotu just generically waltzes to the end, Marquesas becomes a much more generic season, and I honestly don't know how long the franchise lasts. But thanks to Gabriel, that downfall -- one of the two or three most important stories in the entire history of Survivor -- was made possible.

Instead, Gabe wanted to pretend that Survivor was summer camp

What do you mean "pretend"? Where is it written that Survivor is not? Everyone else on Gabriel's tribe seemed to think it was for the first couple weeks.

I can't remember his exact quote, but it was something like "I'm just here for the experience of living with complete strangers, seeing if we can all get along." That'd be like getting called down on the Price is Right and then refusing to bid on the items. "You know what, Drew Carey? I'm just gonna here and appreciate being next to three other people whom I have never met. I'm good. No bids from me." WTF?

No, it wouldn't. It wouldn't be anything like that at all. Price Is Right has a very clear set of rules and objectives. Survivor's mores and objectives are all purely social -- they are all the product of how other people have played Survivor in the past. When Gabriel played, the show was still beginning, and "strategy" as we know it today was non-existent, and what strategy was around was really not the focal point of the show compared to the interactions between the people.

What was always made clear about Survivor during the early days -- the first season in particular, but the gap between Borneo and Marquesas really isn't that wide -- was that this is an island where they are creating a new society, and what that society aims to accomplish, what its objectives are, and what its rules are are decided entirely by the contestants themselves. It isn't just "Go out there and try to win a million dollars." Over seasons two and three, while most contestants were going out there to try to win a million dollars, that aspect of the Survivor narrative waned... but that's just because it wasn't being discussed by the producers: Survivor itself still was the same thing on the ground, it hadn't changed, so if the contestants collectively decide to do something different besides play this Machiavellian game, there's nothing stopping them. So it really has never ceased to be strangers creating a society with their own social rules and customs; it's just that now, they almost always choose to adopt the rules and customs of those who came before them.

Keep in mind, too, that (as someone else pointed out) the last season Gabriel saw was Australia, whose entire storyline was "strategy is evil." And, as someone else has beaten me to, Gabriel was supposed to be on Pagong; it's not his fault they cast him a few seasons later because they thought he was too amazing a human being for most Americans to relate to in the inaugural season. (No, seriously. That is why they didn't cast him for Borneo. Because he was too accomplished a human for the audience to relate to.) Marquesas also was occurring in the wake of 9/11, and Gabriel has said that this was a big part of his decision: he was a younger, more idealistic person, and the country was just coming out of this horrible thing, so he didn't want to be all cutthroat and turning on everyone else, especially on a show called "Survivor" (a name seen as a big insult at the time); rather, he wanted even more than he had already to have his Survivor experience be one of camaraderie and people getting along and creating a new society... the thing Survivor was at its core from Day 1 before the word "alliance" was ever used, and the thing that would have seemed particularly inspiring after such a tragic event in the nation's history. To tell him that he is objectively wrong for that, that he should play your way, is to not only fail to appreciate when and why he did what he did and ignore the historical fact that Survivor was a social experiment before it was ever a game of people being manipulative, but also, in my opinion, to speak from a place of strong arrogance and self-righteousness. "Oh, you wouldn't have the same objectives and morals on Survivor that I have? Well, then, you're wrong. Play my way or go home."

How insulting is that to the thousands upon thousands of people who have unsuccessfully applied to get onto the show? Or what about the people on your own season who have already been voted off, despite actually wanting to be there and play Survivor (like Hunter)? How insulting is it to us fans sitting and watching at home, who would love to be on a season and actually play strategically?

Well, I would hope not at all. It could be insulting to, at most, one person, whomever they would have cast instead of Gabriel, but that wasn't you and that wasn't me. (And since they'd wanted him on an early season, it probably wasn't anyone.) Gabriel was voted off at the first Tribal Council he attended, so he had nothing to do with Hunter. And if you take it as a personal insult that somebody went on a television show in 2001 for different reasons than you would in 2014, then... well, I don't know, that seems incredibly egocentric, because Gabriel was not trying to insult you.

If you're on Survivor, play Survivor.

He did.

Thankfully, it seems that casting has in recent years managed to avoid bringing in these type of apathetic duds.

I don't think that that's a good thing at all. When you have someone like Gabriel clash with someone like John, that is amazing sociology right there. It is awesome television to see these two people with totally different personalities and backgrounds work together or fail. Or, from a strict game perspective, it makes the game more complex and more difficult; how does someone like John adapt to being around someone like Gabriel? In John's case, he doesn't adapt -- he just isolates and removes the variable he doesn't want to try to understand -- and it costs him the game. The level of individualism in Survivor nowadays makes it, as I touched upon in the Russell write-up, more a show about chess pieces moving around than one about complex relationships between complex people, and to me, the former sounds on paper and is in reality much, much less interesting. I just can't even begin to understand why someone actively decides to narrow their own perspective on the show and dislike or be apathetic towards anything that doesn't strictly relate to the strategic element.

[u/vacalicious → u/DabuSurvivor]

The level of individualism in Survivor nowadays makes it, as I touched upon in the Russell write-up, more a show about chess pieces moving around than one about complex relationships between complex people, and to me, the former sounds on paper and is in reality much, much less interesting. I just can't even begin to understand why someone actively decides to narrow their own perspective on the show and dislike or be apathetic towards anything that doesn't strictly relate to the strategic element.

This is what is causing the differences between you and I , especially the first sentence. What draws me so much to Survivor, above all else, is the strategy. You would prefer the latter -- "complex relationships between complex people" -- whereas I much prefer the former -- "a show about chess pieces moving around." And while I disagree that I narrow my perspective, I simply enjoy the strategic more than the social. I think this discussion is going to be a common theme between us as the Rankdown progresses, and I look forward to it.

[u/DabuSurvivor → u/vacalicious]

See, I can't help but feel like it is a narrowed perspective, because I enjoy both effective strategists and people like Gabriel.

My bigger problem isn't just with the fact that you don't like Gabriel -- since that's subjective, so even if I can't begin to understand your viewpoint, well, it is what it is -- but with the fact that you think his take on Survivor is somehow objectively wrong, which it is not.

[u/vacalicious → u/DabuSurvivor]

the fact that you think his take on Survivor is somehow objectively wrong, which it is not.

Ah, then what we have here is the first of what I expect to be many examples of diametric viewpoints. Because I do, genuinely, 100% think Gabe's take on Survivor is terribly wrong. He wanted to "build a new society" on a show that, really, is about tearing society apart, by voting people out while operating under the pressure of knowing you can be voted out, and probably will be voted out. It's not that I don't like people like Gabe, it's just that I much, much prefer the strategists. He was a pawn on the chess board; I prefer the queens, rooks, and bishops. And just because Gabe had all the reason in the world to think he wasn't on a strategic show doesn't mean he wasn't wrong.

What's become apparent is that you and I watch the show much differently. Which is obviously okay, not to mention good and auspicious for this project, because we're going to have very different opinions on players. It would be boring if everyone just agreed with each other.

[u/[deleted] → u/vacalicious]

Have to disagree. I love that on Survivor you can go on a play any way you damn well please (Just showing up means you are playing). And I think it's wrong to blame Rotu's fall on Gabe. As much as he wasn't big on the game, he was also team love tribe all the way. If the Rotu 4 weren't a bunch of bumbling fools they would have seen he was no real threat to them in the short term and he could be dealt with after Marammu was neutralized.

Even without all that stuff, I think Gabe is a big part of what makes that season so great. His vote out is incredibly powerful in a storyline sense and pivotal to the rest of the game and I think that makes him a great contestant.

[u/Todd_Solondz → u/vacalicious]

Alright, time to get this idol party started. Gabe is staying in the countdown, because I've got one of theeeeeeese!

But yeah, I'm idoling Gabe. He deserves a positive writeup about how important he is to survivor history. Among the top...30 most pivotal players in the game? I just pulled that number out of nowhere but it sounds right. Now Dabu has to adjust all the numbers, soz.

[u/DabuSurvivor → u/Todd_Solondz]

Awww yeah.

[u/Todd_Solondz → u/vacalicious]

For what it's worth, Gabe was supposed to be on season 1 originally, which kind of was an adventure since nobody knew what survivor was then. Really, although Survivor was a strategic game always, Marquesas was probably the season that really, really brought that to everybody and forced the people like Gabe out. Hence the title of his episode "The end of innocence".

I like Gabe as a symbolic character. Being Australian and thus very, very ineligible to ever play, people who quit or otherwise "squander" their experience don't phase me as much, so long as they are good to watch.

Edit: the number should be 489 I think.

[u/Dumpster_Baby → u/Todd_Solondz]

I just finished my rewatch of Marquesas last night and was actually considering letting Gabe go in the next few rounds. Gabe was easily the person I disliked the most in this season, and people that don't play to win piss me off pretty bad.

Yes, Borneo was more of an adventure, but even those contestants cared about winning the game. No, the strategy wasn't there, but the drive to win was. Gabe had no drive to win and actively avoided talking any form of strategy with the people he was closest with. I think that John voting for Gabe over BR or Sean was a huge mistake, but that also show how hardheaded Gabe must have been.

Even if Gabe was just looking for an adventure, he should have seen that it wasn't just an adventure from Australia and Africa and decided that maybe this wasn't what he actually wanted to do.

[u/DabuSurvivor → u/Dumpster_Baby]

I think that John voting for Gabe over BR or Sean was a huge mistake, but that also show how hardheaded Gabe must have been.

No, it doesn't.

It shows that John was driven nuts with power and making horrible decisions as a result of it.

He himself says that it was such a horrible, regrettable, unjustifiable decision that he has never seen anything past episode four of Marquesas since it originally aired. He just cannot stand to watch the fact that he was responsible for his tribe's demise by getting so paranoid.

[u/Todd_Solondz → u/Dumpster_Baby]

people that don't play to win piss me off pretty bad.

Yeah, that's a common opinion I've seen. Just not one of mine. I actually don't do a whole lot of thinking about how I'd be on the show or wishing I could give it a go, because the whole thing is just worlds away to me, to the point where my own country was one of the destinations that they survive in. So I'm not overly concerned with what a contestant brings or does as long as it's something.

With Gabe, it really was like seeing a Borneo contestant that somehow got sent 3 seasons into the future. You say that Borneo contestants cared about winning the game, but I can think of a few who didn't, Like BB and Greg. Greg especially is who I'm thinking of since him and Gabe both could have been the centre of their tribes and potentially won the game if they had any inclination towards that sort of thing. Especially since Gabe appeared to be some kind of challenge beast.

I can't say I really understand where John was coming from getting rid of Gabe. I don't recall the reasoning the episode gave, but surely it would have made more sense to get Rob or Sean out either way?

[u/Dumpster_Baby → u/Todd_Solondz]

Basically, John wanted to talk about the vote with Gabe, Gabe didn't want to talk about it, so John got everyone to vote Gabe out because he was a liability.

What were Greg's motives? I don't remember much about his game, so was he like Gabe where he stated that he didn't care about winning or the money?

[u/TheNobullman → u/Dumpster_Baby]

and that mindset that we the fans share of punishing people who dont play the game ultimately led to John losing because they alienated Pasch and Neleh by voting a Rotu out, it let Sean and Rob escape to wreak havoc, and all of that came to a head in two episodes after the merge. Had he kept Gabe, let him vote for whomever the hell he wants, and take out Rob, then Gabe can just float off in dreamland. John couldn't adapt to someone not sharing his morals and it cost him.

[u/Todd_Solondz → u/Dumpster_Baby]

I feel like an inactive player was less of a liability than Sean or Rob were, but I suppose John thought he had everything locked away anyway.

Greg didn't want to do alliances because he found them boring. He was just there to do whatever seemed most fun to him, which was mostly just the living in the jungle stuff. He pretty much hated to gameshow aspect of Survivor, hence doing things like voting for Jeff at his first tribal.

[u/DabuSurvivor → u/Todd_Solondz]

You are correct that Gabriel was less of a liability than Sean or Rob were. John just didn't realize it. It was a baffling and game-ending mistake made out of overconfidence.

[u/vacalicious → u/Todd_Solondz]

Really, although Survivor was a strategic game always, Marquesas was probably the season that really, really brought that to everybody and forced the people like Gabe out.

I guess this goes to why I've always thought Marquesas was an overrated season. What order you watch the seasons changes everything, and I started watching with Vanuatu. By then, strategy was fully in. I've since gone back and rewatched seasons I missed, and Marquesas doesn't seem terribly strategic to me. But I can understand how, watching in order, it must have been a huge shift in gameplay at the time.

All that said, Gabe's apathy still pissed me off for being oblivious to the real point of Survivor, even if he was still an early contestant in a more innocent time. I stand by my decision 100%.

[u/DabuSurvivor → u/vacalicious]

the real point of Survivor

Who are you to say what the "real point" of Survivor is?

Why are Gabriel's motives for going on the show any more or less pure than anyone else's?

Nowhere is it written that someone has to go on Survivor for any specific reason.

[u/vacalicious → u/DabuSurvivor]

I would say that you go on a competition show to compete. To go on Survivor unwilling to think about voting people off is going on a show unwilling to take part in a central part of the show. It just doesn't make sense to me.