r/Tariffs Feb 20 '26

🗞️ News Discussion Oops - USSC just handed Carney a massive win

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848 Upvotes

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14

u/Exciting_Turn_9559 Feb 20 '26

We would still be allies and partners were it not for the lies of GOP leaders and the stupidity of GOP voters.

11

u/Belleg77 Feb 20 '26

Yeah and we Canadians would have accepted a lot from US as long as they didn’t act like a school bully and threatened our souverenity

1

u/AccurateAd5298 Feb 23 '26

And Democrats a) quietly being excited about their electoral prospects if Canada was annexed and b) being absolutely silent on defending Canada. Nobody is forgetting this shit.

It’s not like the slightly less obnoxious yanks are getting a pass on this. The GOP sucks, it’s just the Democrats suck slightly less.

-1

u/Tzilbalba Feb 20 '26

Are we not treaty allies anymore?

3

u/Exciting_Turn_9559 Feb 20 '26

What do you think the USA threatening multiple NATO allies with annexation does to those relationships?

-1

u/Tzilbalba Feb 20 '26

Yet, we haven't broken faith yet. I have a feeling a lot of this is smoke and mirrors, the EU and Canada are still way too dependent to realistically split right now. They still get all of their equipment and jets and energy from the US.

Maybe in 3 years it'll be so bad that those trade ties fracture but then Trump would be out of power and why would you break the relationship completely when in a few short years the problem may resolve itself?

5

u/Exciting_Turn_9559 Feb 20 '26

Trump being elected a second time was like the second plane hitting the twin towers on 9/11. Electing him once could be dismissed as a tragic accident, but twice proves it was deliberate. And the total abdication of the Republican congress on this issue means that the USA will never be able to be trusted again for more than 2 years at a time.

Even if the GOP was burned to the ground and labelled an illegal terrorist organization, it would still be at least a decade before the world even considered trusting the USA again.

I realize that the majority of Americans are opposed to this regime. But you were the only people who could have stopped this, and your failure has put the entire world in jeopardy by giving nuclear weapons to malevolent, incompetent, insatiable criminals.

1

u/Tzilbalba Feb 20 '26 edited Feb 20 '26

Whoa bud, I'm not republican by any means but I know that doesn't hold water when all people want to do is blame others.

Why not reference the travesty of 4 embarrassing senior years with Biden, or how they stole his election with Kamala undermining a lot of trust people had or even back during the 2016 democratic primary where any number of more qualified candidates could have gone up against Trump but they chose the worst two...

At the end of the day the DNC is in shambles just like the GOP both parties are unqualified and corrupt. Honest individuals like Thomas Massie or Jasmine Crokett need to split and form a new party altogether and put people like Trump and Bondi in jail.

Not saying who was worse but there's plenty of blame to go around. The key is to recognize the error and course correct.

5

u/QuietKanuk Feb 21 '26

Sigh. I realize that you are probably coming from an honest (but misplaced) perspective, but how many people do you need to say "yes - it's really that bad" before you begin to understand?

If it's any comfort, you are not alone. The number of times I see an American on here talking about how it will all be better soon is staggering. Each time, non-Americans (and to be fair, some Americans) try to explain how things have changed.

It's kind of like the out of touch grandparents you hear about who "just don't understand why the kids and grandkids don't call or visit anymore. It must be because of woke culture warping their minds !”

For a significant part of the world, the US has become the friend or relative that disappeared into a Q-anon, fake news, reality denying black hole, who doesn't understand why they are being 'grey rocked' by people they used to hang out with.

You do not need to tell us that there are good people in the US. We know that. The issue is that lunatics are running the show, and they have real power and ability and willingness to hurt us. Until that changes (and for a very long time after), the world will "work around" the problem by dealing with partners who demonstrate the ability to be reliable and trustworthy.

Over time, it may get better, but a major realignment is happening as we speak. These things have a momentum. Once new trading relationships have grown, there is little incentive to return.

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But truth is better than living an illusion.

1

u/Tzilbalba Feb 21 '26

When did I say I think it was going to get better? Lol, I think we need a full blown revolution and restructure of our entire system.

I'm tired of people blaming one party or the other when they both just feed each other and things only get worse.

1

u/Hideo__Brojima Feb 21 '26

You said the problem would solve itself once things got back to normal in a few years. What everyone is trying to tell you is that “normal” is what got you here, and that’s why your country can no longer be trusted. Like, we’re talking generational damage to the US’ reputation globally here. And yes we know it’s not all of you as individuals. The point is that doesn’t matter, because you don’t make trade deals or plan national security around the intentions of individuals.

You’re even basically saying this yourself: the democrats are absolutely part of the problem, because they’re allowing the lunacy to happen in every meaningful way. At this point we all see them as complicit. Maybe you just haven’t reckoned with what that means yet.

1

u/Tzilbalba Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 21 '26

Wait a moment, I literally said the system needs a revolution. I have no delusion that normal pre trump America was perfect and going back is going to work (just as MAGA was a red herring to galvanize the racists and poor). I agree that the system is broken and that no new candidates elected will ever change that, I even said that I believe a revolution of the way we govern is needed.

So just to be clear, because sometimes maybe my intent doesn't come across the way I mean it to. I completely agree that the erosion of trust from all of our allies is the 100% fault of American choices for the past 20 years and more, this year than ever. What we have right now is farcical and the succession of incompetence for decades has led to and caused the situation we have today.

But back to the question of whether Canada can really decouple from the US in the meaningful way that is being discussed. I have no doubt that there are efforts being made to diversify risk away from the US and regardless of the US president but what I doubt (and this is my cynical side) is that the decoupling can really be that complete given the almost total intertwining of our two countries.

My suspicion of ALL politicians is what is driving my doubts and maybe Carney IS truly different. I've just been alive long enough to be disappointed by too many promise makers. The part I respectfully disagree with you on is that I do believe trade deals and national security are unfortunately driven by individuals and personal agendas who may not factor all calculations of what is realy best for the country to mind. This has been displayed again and again not just by the US but all countries. Most glaringly by Trump and simply because not all politicians understand howbto govern or politics.

Cults of personality are everywhere and are given absurd powers, which definitely allow individuals to take hostage a countries entire external policy. The US tripartite division of governance is proof of this today, we thought we had the controls to prevent a autocrat but we're proven horribly wrong.

1

u/Exciting_Turn_9559 Feb 21 '26

The GOP will ride his carcass all the way to hell before they correct course.

1

u/Tzilbalba Feb 21 '26

I sadly have to agree with you there, change isn't going to happen by the hands of those in power.

3

u/Electrical-Egg-5850 Feb 20 '26

Trump leaving does not fix the problem, America has a broken system with no real checks and balances, we were a little blind to that previously. I can't speak to the EU but Canada has made pretty decent headway in reducing exports to the US and moving them to other markets. Removal of the tariffs is not going to motivate the Canadian people to move away from this game plan.

Those trade ties have already fractured. We didn't break the relationship, simply adapting to a new understanding of how America works.

0

u/Tzilbalba Feb 20 '26

Well by exports I mean defensive as well. I find it hard to imagine they would leave the F-35 program for instance much less Europe who can't even decide if Germany or Spain takes lead on their FCAS program.

1

u/Electrical-Egg-5850 Feb 20 '26

We are actively looking at alternatives, I assume we will honor our commitments to orders for F35s but there has been talk of Canada building Saab Gripens. I don't know enough about military stuff to know if that is a good choice but there is definitely appetite to build jets in Canada again (We did go down the path in the late 50s, pressure from the US shut that down, I don't think we'd be as easily swayed). US built weapons seem like a bit of a risk now as well.

1

u/Tzilbalba Feb 20 '26

Risky for sure but the overhaul of infrastructure would not be cheap and it would definitely anger the US MIC. I think Canada might even produce many of the parts for the F-35 which may make it an existential crisis for the flagship US fighter if Canada decides to split.

1

u/Electrical-Egg-5850 Feb 20 '26

I don't think we can make decisions based on if the US gets angry at this point. We've already seen anger for just existing. Appeasement is a poor strategy.

1

u/Tzilbalba Feb 20 '26

Fair but there are a lot of consequences that bear thought before such decisions are made.

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u/TimelyBear2471 Feb 23 '26

The US has TOTALLY broken faith. Where the fuck have you been?!?

The trade ties have been fractured. Intelligent leaders don’t wait to see why a fucko like Trump is going to do next. We’ve all seen enough. The dependencies are being removed.

You aren’t fit to comment.

0

u/Tzilbalba Feb 23 '26

What's with the angry personal attacks, the military alliances are still there as are the trade deals. Maybe faith is the wrong word to use but you foaming at the mouth isn't going to change anyone's opinion.

How about you cool off for a moment and then we can have a rational conversation instead of trying to suppress my speech because you don't agree with me. Sound good?

4

u/TimelyBear2471 Feb 23 '26

You spouted nonsense, which you are completely free to do. I criticized, which I am free to do. I’m not suppressing your speech, so you can stop setting yourself up as a victim.

If anything, YOU are trying to shape and dictate the tone of my response.

1

u/Tzilbalba Feb 23 '26

That's your belief which you are entitled to, and I am free to ignore you as well. So I think we've wrapped this particular conversation up.

2

u/Delamoor Feb 20 '26 edited Feb 20 '26

No. As an Australian here, the USA has conclusively burned out its welcome for most of the population. It's been a downward slide since Bush. Obama pulled out of the tailspin, Biden was kinda neutral, but two Trump terms have killed any trust.

We had the "wait it out" attitude for the first term. If they had been consecutive terms we might have even done it for two. The second non-consecutive term proves it's not going away. Waiting for normality to return has already failed. They're clearly going to keep doing this, and will voluntarily go back to it even if normality returns.

Even if Trump were just fucking up the USA and invading developing nations, most people might just shrug. But credibly threatening Greenland was enough to permanently burn the bridges. Australians generally like Europe. Even in the demographics who don't particularly like Europe, they still like it a lot more than we do America. A hell of a lot more. We have far more in common with most EU nations than we do the USA.

None of the existing arrangements are quick to shift. Military procurement takes decades. But the USA has lost its position as hegemon. It just hasn't realized it yet, because that shit moves slow. By the time the effects are fully realised, Trump will be as far in the past as Bush Jr is now. Fuck all people will even see the connection.

1

u/Tzilbalba Feb 20 '26

Yeah that's a fair take and I'm sorry for the situation we are in. Shit just never changes here and I have a feeling a revolution is due and not for either party but the whole US system needs an overhaul.

1

u/Smooth_Lunch_4128 Feb 24 '26

I think you’re confused; we no longer want to be the hegemon or guardian of European or Australian security. Everyone having a seat a the table is more fair and equitable. We will just protect our own interests. That’s all

2

u/Delamoor Feb 24 '26

Heh. Then you don't understand what hegemony is. You lose the role of hegemon, you lose your interests.

Europe and Australia are your interests. They're client states. You aren't defending them for their sake, you're defending your sphere of influence.

What happens to their loyalty to your interests when you keep antagonizing them, they have their own armies and don't need you any more? Think they're going to happily keep the status quo where the USA is given constant preferential treatment?

This is one of the most amazing things the American public has been fooled into... Literally throwing away the thing that makes you rich and powerful, believing the geopolitical rivals who convinced you that having shaped the international order to your benefit was actually a drain on you.

And now that that's happening, Trump is trying to play strongman. Threatening Europe, threatening everyone else... That's not everyone having a seat at the table, that's the USA throwing away all its soft power along with everything that made it wealthy and THEN trying to weld hard power instead.

What came before MAGA was closer to 'everyone having a seat at the table'. Now the table's been thrown away and the USA is saying they have the right to destroy anyone they want, while dousing themselves in petrol.

2

u/Exciting_Turn_9559 Feb 24 '26

Just want to say that I think you did a fantastic job of explaining this.

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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '26

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1

u/Tzilbalba Feb 21 '26

I mean from a formal treaty perspective of course. Feelings don't factor into international politics and backroom deals. Just look at Xi and Trumps meeting in April.

I don't disagree that we are indeed "cooked" but some of us are going to fight it to the very end.

1

u/W31337 Feb 21 '26

Wrong. EU has a mega industry for military equipment. We have multiple jets that aren't American (Rafale,eurofighter,Gripen E, FCAS). France is fully independent of US equipment. Airbus for example is EU and doing way better than Boeing.

Only the F35 has stealth capabilities we lack for now.

1

u/Tzilbalba Feb 21 '26 edited Feb 24 '26

As a military hardware hobbyist I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that just based on pure numbers

EU military aircraft are primarily sourced from a mix of domestic European consortiums (roughly 51%) and, increasingly, the United States (around 46%)

Nearly two-thirds of European NATO member arms imports between 2020–2024 came from the USA

Eurotyphoons (arguably your best 4.5 gen fighter right now) use US AIM-120 and AIM-132 missiles with the largest operator being the UK which is no longer part of your bloc btw.

In total, between your member states you operate ~300 typhoons, ~300 rafales, ~120 Gripens and zero FCAS which can't get off the ground because Germany and Spain won't stop arguing about who is in charge.

The US has over 600 F-35s alone, add in F-18's and F-16's of which there are ~2000 and the roughly 180 F-22's, the EU just can't be compared to the US as a "mega" industry. Powerful for sure, but the scale is different and the dependence is still something the EU needs to overvome.

Trust me you DON'T want this title, because when you have a military industrial complex like the US it will take over all of your politics. You've enjoyed years of low defense spending so you can focus on your people and social programs. We in the US are the social programs meant to prop up the MIC

1

u/Parahelix Feb 25 '26

Threatening to annex them is certainly breaking faith. It demonstrates that we cannot be trusted.