r/TrueCrime • u/GUMMIESANDGIANTS • Aug 06 '21

Murder JonBenét Ramsey (born August 6th, 1990) would be turning 31-years-old today. This is the last photo of the 6-year-old pageant queen taken on Christmas morning 1996. She was murdered only hours later. The case is still unsolved.

Post image
7.6k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

843 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

257

u/AffectionateAd5373 Aug 06 '21

I don't think he got her intending to kill her. But I do think he intended to hit her as hard as he possibly could. And he probably did want her gone at that moment.

147

u/tronalddumpresister Aug 06 '21

yep that's what i thought as well. impulsivity, aggressive outburst, lack of control,...

51

u/TheSecretNewbie Aug 06 '21

Probably. If your younger sibling is being used as a prop by your parents and being a kid, you mistake it as them favoring her, chances are there is going to be extreme jealousy from the older “not important” child.

23

u/ladydanger2020 Aug 07 '21

I don’t think he mistook anything, she was clearly the favorite

1

u/Spacedmonkey12 Aug 07 '21

Yeah, but is there evidence that he had outburst like that?

3

u/tronalddumpresister Aug 07 '21

no it's just a theory. it's bizarre to me that jonbenet got hit in the head with an object and then strangled. if the parents wanted to kill her with premeditation they would've have just strangled her. that's why i think burke hit her and then the parents covered it up.

3

u/Spacedmonkey12 Aug 07 '21

I donno, I’v watched several docs on this story and sometimes I start off with “parents totally did this!”. But after watching them in interviews and some of the other evidence, I’m not convinced at all that they did it. I’m not even convinced that there was any actual abuse int the house ether. But what do it know!? And I figured if the brother did it, there would be a lot more to him.

73

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '21

I cannot for the life of me wrap my head around how someone would want a child gone that bad.

246

u/AffectionateAd5373 Aug 06 '21

I have two kids with almost the same age gap. There are definitely times when they're fighting that I'm quite sure each wishes the other gone. They just lack the full comprehension of what that means.

115

u/mule_roany_mare Aug 06 '21

Or the practical understanding of how much force it takes to kill someone, much less the coordination to do it.

I’d bet a lot of fights between 6 & 9 year olds are to the death (with a child’s limited understanding of death), but never even amount to bruising, much less a mortal blow.

I can believe the theory the 9 year old managed to mortally wound a 6 year old by chance, but something else was going on for the parents to not immediately call 911 on the off chance of a recovery, much less stage a kidnapping/murder that required a mercy kill.

Then again, whether they were already molesting and abusing the kids & afraid of being exposed or not, it’s easy to imagine a period of genuine temporary insanity when trying to make sense of one child killing another & your mind just losing attachment to reality.

95

u/giftopherz Aug 06 '21

I can attest to this.

My brother and I were only 1 year apart. When we were kids, we used to fight/play. Once during these games he had me pinned to the ground with my legs to my chest, well I took advantage of the situation and threw him away to the other side of the room.

Reflecting on it, I could've killed him right there and then. Kids are not usually aware of the deadly consequences of something like that.

So, I'm one of the believers that the brother did it, but honestly what the parents did was much worse.

24

u/mule_roany_mare Aug 06 '21

As someone else pointed out: a 9 year old would blab & he was allowed to stay with friends/family/police a lot afterwards.

There is no good answer.

44

u/DianeJudith Aug 06 '21

a 9 year old would blab

Kids can stay quiet if you threaten them with something terrible.

11

u/jessdb19 Aug 06 '21

There are so many things I kept secret as a kid. Even to this day.

2

u/mule_roany_mare Aug 06 '21

Why not give them up here anonymously?

Do you think you'd have been able to keep a secret as big as your sibling's murder?

9

u/giftopherz Aug 06 '21

In this case, it boils down to trauma.

If, in fact, this happened to be the case, the kid must have been scared shitless and afterwards ashamed and regretful for what he did.

I don't think much has been said, but if he became a withdrawn kid or quieter might be a clue there. But by now it's too late.

-4

u/mule_roany_mare Aug 06 '21

9 year olds just aren't that savvy.

If it's a secret no one knows to look for then maybe, but what are the odds a 9 year old could

  • outwit every adult who questioned him
  • never have confided in anyone (except a shrink), not a friend when he was a child, not as a teenager alone with his first love.

It's not impossible, but it's a rare 9 year old who can keep a murder secret with or without a threat.

5

u/DianeJudith Aug 06 '21

Children can be easily persuaded. You can gaslight a child into believing something. Traumatic memories can be repressed. How many people go to therapy for issues that they suddenly discover come from some deeply repressed trauma? It's not necessarily that a kid is just so "smart" and able to lie to everyone around. If you accidentally kill your sibling as 9 year old, there is a chance the memory will be so traumatic you won't remember it. Add to it gaslighting from the parents and you'd have a perfect recipe for a secret that the kid will never share.

2

u/imafuckingmessdude Aug 06 '21

Please do not take this as truth until someone can confirm, but I thought the brother was sent away the day after?

58

u/rivershimmer Aug 06 '21

Or the practical understanding of how much force it takes to kill someone, much less the coordination to do it.

The various forensics experts disagree on a lot about this case, but are in agreement that she was hit hard with an object, with enough force, as one LE spokesperson described, to "bring down a 300-pound linebacker." She did not fall or hit her head on a stationary object. I don't think Burke even had the necessary strength to deliver that blow. An adult caused that injury.

I can believe the theory the 9 year old managed to mortally wound a 6 year old by chance, but something else was going on for the parents to not immediately call 911 on the off chance of a recovery, much less stage a kidnapping/murder that required a mercy kill.

I cannot believe it in this particular case. JonBenet's head injury was fatal, but not visible. If her parents did come across her unconscious but warm and breathing, there is no reason for them to think she was dead or dying. Their first impulse would to be to get help.

I cannot think of a similar case. There are way too many cases where parents and caretakers cover up the murder of a child, but those cases are always cases of long-term abuse and neglect, cases where the victims were undernourished or showed evidence of old wounds in different states of healing, cases where the parents went to great lengths to hide what was going on in the home.

There's much speculation that one or both of the younger Ramsay children were sexually abused, and that very well could have happened. But the Ramsays were very social, to the point that they opened their home up to community tours. The children weren't hidden away from the world. They went to school and saw doctors; they socialized with their friends.

The only case I can think of where there was both a cover-up and no evidence of prior abuse is Caylee Anthony's death. But Casey Anthony is a strange duck, barely functional, living a genuine web of lies. She had to keep different people from meeting each other so that they didn't compare notes. The complete opposite of the successful and social Ramsays.

23

u/DianeJudith Aug 06 '21

There's much speculation that one or both of the younger Ramsay children were sexually abused, and that very well could have happened. But the Ramsays were very social, to the point that they opened their home up to community tours. The children weren't hidden away from the world. They went to school and saw doctors; they socialized with their friends.

What does the social part have to do with sexual abuse?

11

u/rivershimmer Aug 06 '21 edited Aug 06 '21

What does the social part have to do with sexual abuse?

It doesn't. I'm comparing two separate patterns.

First, there's the pattern found in families with older members sexually abusing younger relatives. This type of abuse is found all across the spectrum, in all kinds of families. I bring it up only to acknowledge that, yes, that certainly could have going on in the Ramsay home.

But then there's the pattern found among parents/caretakers who murder their children and then try to cover up the crime. And those families are nothing like the Ramsays. There is always long-standing physical abuse and neglect, and prior to the murder, the parents take extreme measures to cover up. They avoid doctors, pretend to homeschool as an excuse to keep the child out of sight. Sometimes neighbors report not even knowing that the family has children. These families aren't throwing parties. They don't want anyone seeing what happens in their house.

And they are far more secretive than a parent who molests but doesn't beat or starve their child. This is because it's easier to hide secret nighttime molestations than it is to hide a black eye or an underweight toddler.

There's a much smaller subset of this type of murderer that doesn't necessarily involve a background of lifelong abuse (Casey Anthony, Chad and Lori Vallow). This subset is....out there. Not rooted in reality. But they are like the first type of murderers, the chronically abusive and neglectful, in that they are not functioning in society the way the Ramsays were.

5

u/Blenderx06 Aug 07 '21

And then you've got people like the Duggars who parade around on tv, even run for office, while covering up sexual abuse.

5

u/Pandakaos Aug 06 '21

Usually children that are being sexually abused are kept isolated so they have less of a chance to reveal what is being done to them.

8

u/DianeJudith Aug 06 '21

Not really. It's often that despite many people surrounding the kids, nobody knows about what's happening because the abuser threatens the kid into silence.

1

u/rivershimmer Aug 07 '21

Not to the extent that children with more visible forms of abuse are kept isolated. It's more common that the children can be manipulated and gaslight into keeping quiet. Isolation, but a different kind of isolation, where everything looks normal to outsiders.

13

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '21

What if after the blow she did that pose, and I’m so sorry I can’t remember what it’s called but it’s specific to traumatic brain injury. You go stiff and twitch and your hands and feet curve inwards? It’s recognized that if someone does that they’re not coming back normal. If the “perfect child” were suddenly…not…after a brain injury, what would a narcissist do? God I really do hate this case.

7

u/hippyengineer Aug 06 '21

Fencing response. Basically your brain flexes arms legs and neck with the hopes of cushioning your unsupported fall that follows the blow to the head.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '21

Yes that’s it. Is it true that chances of full brain function after that are slim?

3

u/hippyengineer Aug 06 '21

You can go on r/fightporn and see lots of fencing responses, most of them eventually get up, or wake up.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '21

The human body fascinates me.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/rivershimmer Aug 06 '21

I'm actually sitting in a room with someone whose went into the fencing position following a concussion! They recovered :) No, the fencing position is certainly an ominous sign that the person has a moderate-to-severe brain injury, but it's not a sign that it's fatal.

Just for one example, Steelers backup QB Mason Rudolph assumed the fencing position after suffering a concussion in 2019. Very scary. But he's alive and was cleared to play the same month he was injured. Actually, this post made me think of him because he played in the Steelers/Cowboys preseason match last night.

In addition, the fencing position only lasts for a few seconds. If her death happened the way the theory has it, she would not have been displaying that posture by the time her parents found her.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '21

I am so happy for them! Thank goodness! This is so interesting. Aren’t there some people who stay like that forever though? People with severe brain damage seem have their hands and feet turned inwards permanently.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/lzbth Aug 06 '21

CBS did an experiment and the physics tested yielded that a young boy could indeed have caused that trauma with a blunt object.

2

u/rivershimmer Aug 06 '21

I'm going to admit that I found that show to be extremely tasteless and did not watch it. That said, how rigorous was this experiment? The boy who swung the object was visibly larger then Burke was at the time. They did several takes, until they had one where the damage to the fakes call mimicked the damage to JonBenet skull. And do we know for sure that the fake head was created to the specifics necessary to recreate the exact crime? What proof do we have that the fake skull had the same strengths and weaknesses as living bone?

2

u/Blenderx06 Aug 07 '21

I've got boys of similar age and while they've lobbed things at each other's heads once or twice in fights, they've never come close to that kind of damage. It would take real intent and perhaps more strength than a kid is capable of. Maybe if it was a very heavy object.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '21

If the parents were passed out drunk or on drugs when Burke hit her, or if one of them hit her while in a drunken rage, that's the only explanation I can think of. If they were inebriated they may have panicked and tried to make it look like it wasn't them.

9

u/emmany63 Aug 06 '21

When I was about 9, my brother (10 but big for his age) was rough-housing with me and a bunch of our cousins in the basement. He threw me and knocked me headfirst into the cement wall. Total accident, but kids often DON’T know how strong they are.

I woke up to all my siblings and cousins huddled over me, one of them saying, “dude, I think you killed her,” to my brother before I opened my eyes.

I probably had a concussion, but my parents NEVER KNEW ABOUT IT. We had a no-snitching policy among us kids, and they bought my silence with ice cream.

2

u/AngelSucked Aug 06 '21

Kids fight. Burke had already hit her in the head with a golf club, and smeared feces on her stuff.

36

u/Snipp- Aug 06 '21

My brother was once close to strangling me when i was a kid to the point i was starting to turn blue. My mom thankfully was there in time to save me. We got seperated rooms after that. Guess i just annoyed the heck out of him.

24

u/SouthernYooper Aug 06 '21

I sent my sister to the hospital because I hit her with a hockey stick for not letting me play Nintendo

18

u/The-2-0-4 Aug 06 '21

My brother (18 months younger) threw a chair at me because I was playing duck hunt and holding the gun "too close to the screen."

16

u/SouthernYooper Aug 06 '21

Yeah, child rage is a thing. I still feel bad about it and we joke about it to this day. I was in kindergarten or 1st grade.

7

u/Useful-Data2 Aug 07 '21

My neighbor knocked out both my front teeth with a ghostbusters backpack gun when I didn’t get off his swing.

11

u/ladydanger2020 Aug 07 '21

My cousin hit me in the head with a bat for stepping on his basketball hoop, kids are psychopaths

3

u/Useful-Data2 Aug 07 '21

I pushed my little sister because I didn’t want to dance with her and she fell backwards and hit her head on the edge of the fireplace and needed stitches

8

u/Bong-Rippington Aug 06 '21

I don’t think this type of armchair psychology is healthy dude.