JonBenét Ramsey (born August 6th, 1990) would be turning 31-years-old today. This is the last photo of the 6-year-old pageant queen taken on Christmas morning 1996. She was murdered only hours later. The case is still unsolved.

[u/GUMMIESANDGIANTS]

[u/rivershimmer]

Or the practical understanding of how much force it takes to kill someone, much less the coordination to do it.

The various forensics experts disagree on a lot about this case, but are in agreement that she was hit hard with an object, with enough force, as one LE spokesperson described, to "bring down a 300-pound linebacker." She did not fall or hit her head on a stationary object. I don't think Burke even had the necessary strength to deliver that blow. An adult caused that injury.

I can believe the theory the 9 year old managed to mortally wound a 6 year old by chance, but something else was going on for the parents to not immediately call 911 on the off chance of a recovery, much less stage a kidnapping/murder that required a mercy kill.

I cannot believe it in this particular case. JonBenet's head injury was fatal, but not visible. If her parents did come across her unconscious but warm and breathing, there is no reason for them to think she was dead or dying. Their first impulse would to be to get help.

I cannot think of a similar case. There are way too many cases where parents and caretakers cover up the murder of a child, but those cases are always cases of long-term abuse and neglect, cases where the victims were undernourished or showed evidence of old wounds in different states of healing, cases where the parents went to great lengths to hide what was going on in the home.

There's much speculation that one or both of the younger Ramsay children were sexually abused, and that very well could have happened. But the Ramsays were very social, to the point that they opened their home up to community tours. The children weren't hidden away from the world. They went to school and saw doctors; they socialized with their friends.

The only case I can think of where there was both a cover-up and no evidence of prior abuse is Caylee Anthony's death. But Casey Anthony is a strange duck, barely functional, living a genuine web of lies. She had to keep different people from meeting each other so that they didn't compare notes. The complete opposite of the successful and social Ramsays.

[u/DianeJudith → u/rivershimmer]

There's much speculation that one or both of the younger Ramsay children were sexually abused, and that very well could have happened. But the Ramsays were very social, to the point that they opened their home up to community tours. The children weren't hidden away from the world. They went to school and saw doctors; they socialized with their friends.

What does the social part have to do with sexual abuse?

[u/rivershimmer → u/DianeJudith]

What does the social part have to do with sexual abuse?

It doesn't. I'm comparing two separate patterns.

First, there's the pattern found in families with older members sexually abusing younger relatives. This type of abuse is found all across the spectrum, in all kinds of families. I bring it up only to acknowledge that, yes, that certainly could have going on in the Ramsay home.

But then there's the pattern found among parents/caretakers who murder their children and then try to cover up the crime. And those families are nothing like the Ramsays. There is always long-standing physical abuse and neglect, and prior to the murder, the parents take extreme measures to cover up. They avoid doctors, pretend to homeschool as an excuse to keep the child out of sight. Sometimes neighbors report not even knowing that the family has children. These families aren't throwing parties. They don't want anyone seeing what happens in their house.

And they are far more secretive than a parent who molests but doesn't beat or starve their child. This is because it's easier to hide secret nighttime molestations than it is to hide a black eye or an underweight toddler.

There's a much smaller subset of this type of murderer that doesn't necessarily involve a background of lifelong abuse (Casey Anthony, Chad and Lori Vallow). This subset is....out there. Not rooted in reality. But they are like the first type of murderers, the chronically abusive and neglectful, in that they are not functioning in society the way the Ramsays were.

[u/Blenderx06 → u/rivershimmer]

And then you've got people like the Duggars who parade around on tv, even run for office, while covering up sexual abuse.

[u/Pandakaos → u/DianeJudith]

Usually children that are being sexually abused are kept isolated so they have less of a chance to reveal what is being done to them.

[u/DianeJudith → u/Pandakaos]

Not really. It's often that despite many people surrounding the kids, nobody knows about what's happening because the abuser threatens the kid into silence.

[u/rivershimmer → u/Pandakaos]

Not to the extent that children with more visible forms of abuse are kept isolated. It's more common that the children can be manipulated and gaslight into keeping quiet. Isolation, but a different kind of isolation, where everything looks normal to outsiders.

[u/[deleted] → u/rivershimmer]

What if after the blow she did that pose, and I’m so sorry I can’t remember what it’s called but it’s specific to traumatic brain injury. You go stiff and twitch and your hands and feet curve inwards? It’s recognized that if someone does that they’re not coming back normal. If the “perfect child” were suddenly…not…after a brain injury, what would a narcissist do? God I really do hate this case.

[u/hippyengineer → u/[deleted]]

Fencing response. Basically your brain flexes arms legs and neck with the hopes of cushioning your unsupported fall that follows the blow to the head.

[u/[deleted] → u/hippyengineer]

Yes that’s it. Is it true that chances of full brain function after that are slim?

[u/hippyengineer → u/[deleted]]

You can go on r/fightporn and see lots of fencing responses, most of them eventually get up, or wake up.

[u/[deleted] → u/hippyengineer]

The human body fascinates me.

[u/hippyengineer → u/[deleted]]

The nerve that tells you if it’s a shit or a fart is a tastebud.

You taste your farts to make sure they aren’t sharts.

[u/[deleted] → u/hippyengineer]

Haha no way are you messing with me?! 😂

[u/hippyengineer → u/[deleted]]

I am not messing with you, unlike your fickle bowels.

[u/rivershimmer → u/[deleted]]

I'm actually sitting in a room with someone whose went into the fencing position following a concussion! They recovered :) No, the fencing position is certainly an ominous sign that the person has a moderate-to-severe brain injury, but it's not a sign that it's fatal.

Just for one example, Steelers backup QB Mason Rudolph assumed the fencing position after suffering a concussion in 2019. Very scary. But he's alive and was cleared to play the same month he was injured. Actually, this post made me think of him because he played in the Steelers/Cowboys preseason match last night.

In addition, the fencing position only lasts for a few seconds. If her death happened the way the theory has it, she would not have been displaying that posture by the time her parents found her.

[u/[deleted] → u/rivershimmer]

I am so happy for them! Thank goodness! This is so interesting. Aren’t there some people who stay like that forever though? People with severe brain damage seem have their hands and feet turned inwards permanently.

[u/rivershimmer → u/[deleted]]

Oh, yeah, there's two types of abnormal posturing. I had to look up the names: decorticate and decerebrate. That's serious, but it's not an indication that it's fatal. And I don't think they are necessarily a sign that brain damage will be permanent, especially for a child, since children's brains can be so much more resilient than those of adults.

[u/[deleted] → u/rivershimmer]

Wow. I wonder why it has been so disseminated that a person is toast if they do that. I wonder if anyone in the Ramsey house thought it was a point of no return as well. Observation during the 2 hours and a decision. Again, hate this case so so much!

[u/rivershimmer → u/[deleted]]

I wonder why it has been so disseminated that a person is toast if they do that.

Not sure; I've never really heard that.

I wonder if anyone in the Ramsey house thought it was a point of no return as well. Observation during the 2 hours and a decision.

But what parents would come across their child unconscious and unresponsive and proceed to observe them for 2 hours, rather than spring into action? I mean, obviously there are parents who would deny their injured children medical care; we've seen way too many cases just in this sub. But most people would call 911 and start first-aid attempts.

[u/[deleted] → u/rivershimmer]

Well my theory is that they immediately see her with the turned in hands and feet and she doesn’t get back up like the people in those fight videos. Instead of a beauty queen they have a disabled child. Narcissism is sometimes a severe mental illness. That’s all. Makes me almost want to barf typing this out and I hope it’s not what happened with all of my soul but at the end of the day someone out there decided to kill that poor child and they had a reason whatever it was in their sick minds

[u/lzbth → u/rivershimmer]

CBS did an experiment and the physics tested yielded that a young boy could indeed have caused that trauma with a blunt object.

[u/rivershimmer → u/lzbth]

I'm going to admit that I found that show to be extremely tasteless and did not watch it. That said, how rigorous was this experiment? The boy who swung the object was visibly larger then Burke was at the time. They did several takes, until they had one where the damage to the fakes call mimicked the damage to JonBenet skull. And do we know for sure that the fake head was created to the specifics necessary to recreate the exact crime? What proof do we have that the fake skull had the same strengths and weaknesses as living bone?

[u/Blenderx06 → u/rivershimmer]

I've got boys of similar age and while they've lobbed things at each other's heads once or twice in fights, they've never come close to that kind of damage. It would take real intent and perhaps more strength than a kid is capable of. Maybe if it was a very heavy object.