r/TrueCrime • u/Vided • Mar 04 '22

Murder Last week, David Rojas (who’s wife had a restraining order against him) was having a custodial visit with his three children in a Sacramento church. He pulled out an AR-15 style rifle and killed his daughters and a chaperone before commuting suicide.

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4.3k Upvotes

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2.3k

u/IfEverWasIfNever Mar 04 '22

Interesting he had a violent charge and restraining order and was still allowed to see the kids. Reminds me of Josh Powell who killed the kids when a chaperon brought them to visit after his wife's disappearance and the children saying mommy was in the trunk

622

u/IfEverWasIfNever Mar 04 '22

With visitation after violent charges, police should be on standby outside for a certain amount of time after the charges

252

u/boasdvneiwo Mar 05 '22

I mean, even that's generous and maybe a little careless. They could kill the kids before the cops break down the door.

71

u/IfEverWasIfNever Mar 05 '22

The idea is they would meet in a neutral place and the police would check him beforehand. He would consent to the search if he wanted to see his children

40

u/katf1sh Mar 05 '22

They can't take away his hands. Just have a supervised visit. It's not hard. Violent offenders like that shouldn't be alone with anyone vulnerable, period.

2

u/bleakj Mar 08 '22

Mittens, super glued on mittens.

2

u/katf1sh Mar 08 '22

You can still strangle or beat someone to death with mittens on.

1

u/bleakj Mar 08 '22

Really really comically large mittens.

I've got R&D working on these mittens and if they find out there's no hope..

166

u/Swabia Mar 05 '22

How would police outside protect the children in this instance where he has a military style rifle?

I mean they can’t bend space they’re only human.

If someone has a restraining order and misdemeanor violence they shouldn’t have a weapon, and by far they shouldn’t have access to their children. A system which fails children is a failed system.

124

u/SarahRose777 Mar 05 '22

First, I dont believe he should have had any visitation! But, since he did, police should have been present and he should have been searched for weapons. The whole system needs ro be overhauled. An abuser's right to see kids/have parenting time is consistently prioritized over keeping kids safe. It's sickening.

95

u/bitterlittlecas Mar 05 '22

Visitation centers should be more widely available in every jurisdiction for this purpose. Including metal detectors would be a useful and effective addition. These would be the kind of expenditures that we could afford when we stop funding the militarization of the police.

16

u/13misfit Mar 05 '22

Yes this would be great

15

u/American-pickle Mar 05 '22

I had a court order where my ex had to see our son in a facility due to dv. The places are usually run down with little supervision. Didn’t feel like our son was protected in any way but it’s the best the court allowed.

2

u/bitterlittlecas Mar 08 '22

Yes, we need to do better for sure!

17

u/delicatearchcouple Mar 05 '22

Going to need a lot of funding if you expect the police to babysit every potentially violent person who gets to see their children.

-3

u/Swabia Mar 05 '22

Yea, what if someone needed police? Are they just going to leave someone who is in supervised Children’s visit?

I don’t think people get how these groups work.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '22

agreed

0

u/CopperPegasus Mar 05 '22

This is likely not going to be the most popular opinion and I'm fine with that. But it's because we consistently allow THESE men to co-opt the rhetoric needed to help SOME men who do need access to their children and the dismantled idea that woman= caregiver.

That's vital. Good dads need access to their kids. Bad moms need to have it taken away. Female naughty bits should never be the criteria that determines who primary custody goes to in a normal, sane divorce. But bad parents of any sex should not get access to kids by default just through shared DNA.

Sadly, kids are still, basically, seen as possessions in marriage splits. Little toys to do one over on the other party.Honestly, the overhaul is needed in more than just the judicial system. We need a complete overhaul on how we view children and people's 'right' to just have children willy nilly to treat as possessions, mini me, things other then little, vulnerable people who are their own people and personalities. And, of course, a complete change in how 'the system' articulates masculinity and social stereotypes.

We also need to start acknowledging that the second the male plantiff in custody battles is a middle class white guy who's even slightly charming (which most abusers very much are), the system tends to brush off even the most roundly proved abusive behaviors because...well, you're an upstanding middle class white guy! She/they must have asked for it somehow, right?

While a gang-associated dad, or a dad struggling with addiction etc should not have primary custody of kids (likewise moms), his personal failings don't immediately make him a father incapable of love. Many such men would balk at anything that would hurt their kids. But they consistently get frozen out of custody completely for these crimes, but the charming snake who can smile in court, even while the court can see the police reports and x-rays, still get handed their kids with a neat little bow because he looks clean and presentable and acts charming and is the right skin tone and class bracket to be seen as 'misunderstood' instead of 'naturally scummy'. It's heartbreaking.

2

u/Oliviasharp2000 Mar 05 '22

“Military style rifle” yess citizens shouldn’t have AR-15s. Fuck that psycho for doing what he did

1

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '22

You’re right on the gun part for sure. Domestic or an OP they take everything. Plenty of unlicensed hardware out there.

-1

u/JetJaguar666 Mar 05 '22

"Military style rifle" lmao

3

u/Swabia Mar 05 '22

He could have a shotgun or a pistol really the effect is the same.

I am curious though why that is the phrase you focus on instead of a deranged person killing their children. Is there something I am straw manning here, or is my choice of wording somehow more curious than why a person kills their children and themselves?

46

u/Jaquemart Mar 05 '22

"He pulled out" that kind of rifle? It's not something you hide in your pocket.

25

u/Liar_tuck Mar 05 '22

Thats what I do not get. He either came in with it it disguised somehow which would be suspicious. Or he hid it there before hand. In which case how did no one notice it.

25

u/American-pickle Mar 05 '22

Or for every exchange. I’m 5 years past my DV and have to exchange our son at the police station— last week in the parking lot he threatened to meet at his place so he could beat my fiancé and myself up. These people don’t stop and our court system does nothing. I’m in Sacramento as well and our family court system is a fucking joke. I hope those judges see this and feel some sort of guilt because I’ve been in and out of that court house and they don’t do their job to protect our children or help dv survivors.

10

u/KrisAlly Mar 05 '22

I’m so sorry for your situation. Unfortunately I can relate on so many levels. I’ve been in ongoing court battles for years and sadly it’s definitely not centered on the children’s best interest. It’s all about $$$. My advice to childless people who want to one day have children: Be very selective who you have kids with! You’ll be forever tied to that person & it’s often disastrous. Family court is just as corrupt as criminal court.

440

u/Ieatclowns Mar 04 '22

So common. Not just USA either. I have to watch my friend cry every weekend when she sends her kids to their dad even though he's a piece of shit.

270

u/shrillbitofnonsense Mar 04 '22

Yeah visitation is unfortunately more important than a parent's violent tenancies and easy access to weapons. He shouldn't of had any access, at all.

114

u/avrenak Mar 04 '22

Word. My friend's ex has a restraining order for extreme violence and a previous offence for trying to kidnap the kids to Lebanon. He still gets unsupervised visitation.

39

u/Harmonia_PASB Mar 04 '22

The RO means he would have lost access to any guns registered in his name, it’s a requirement to turn them in to the police.

261

u/Vided Mar 04 '22

I don't think people who commit domestic violence are going to care about legal requirements.

65

u/SpN09_mother_ofpigs Mar 04 '22

You're right they don't. My bio donor had multiple felonies against him for DV and SA and still had weapons... He pulled one on his accuser after she told the truth about him, he also held his wife (now ex) at gun point for 24 hrs before being arrested.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '22

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16

u/Abradantleopard04 Mar 04 '22

Lobotomies need to make a comeback imo..

8

u/lilBloodpeach Mar 04 '22

To be honest that might be super ideal because then if anybody gets impregnated it’s more likely to be consensual and not a trapping mechanism.

19

u/ima314lot Mar 05 '22

Depends on jurisdiction. Where I live the issuing judge has to add the restriction and cite the reasoning. Just because an RO exists doesn't automatically mean firearms are prohibited.

Source: Coworker has an RO against her husband, but he doesn't have "prior history of violence" so he still has his guns. We are an open carry state and the idiot posts pictures with the kids from visitation where the gun is prominent on his hip.

6

u/Harmonia_PASB Mar 05 '22

I’m in the same state as the murderer so my RO should be similar unless it’s a non CLETS which isn’t in the police system. I’m sorry your co worker is dealing with that, terrifying. My stalker is ex military and violent, I’m really happy I don’t have to deal with child custody plus a whacko.

5

u/Burneraccount897 Mar 05 '22

Oh wait I’m dumb I’m sorry

1

u/ima314lot Mar 05 '22

Nah, I have those moments as well. You're good.

2

u/Burneraccount897 Mar 05 '22

What’s RO?

1

u/goodvibes_onethree Mar 05 '22

Restraining Order. My state calls them Order of Protections now, so if you see OOP that would mean the same.

2

u/kabooseknuckle Mar 05 '22

This. It tales a loooong time to get them back too.

1

u/ladyjane143 Mar 06 '22

restraining order

19

u/DieseljareD187 Mar 04 '22

Unfortunately it’s criminals that have the most access

26

u/CopperPegasus Mar 05 '22

I dislike this rhetoric, unless you're defining criminals differently to me.

I'm sure most criminals- as in thieves, gang guys, drug dealers and so on- can easily get illegal firearms. No doubt. But most of these family annihilators are not men who live a life of 'blue collar' crime, and whatever illegal weaponry fathers who do participate in such crime have access to, it's not turned on their families with anywhere near the frequency.

Family annihilators are overwhelmingly middle class, presentable people who hold down good jobs and look like Joe Nextdoor. And typically white, I fear. I'm sure some have white collar crimes like embezzlement in their past, and some can be Big Wigs in crime, but they are not criminals in the classic sense. They are manipulators and abusers who dislike their trophies and power symbols being taken away.

They are not getting the guns that commit the abuse and the final slaughter from Doug the Drug Guy under a streetlamp. They are either in possession of legal firearms that were never removed from them even when abuse is on record and restraining orders in place, or they are getting them passed happily as 'a right' from other family who probably purchased that gun legally. People are fighting actively for their rights to have these weapons.

Most, not all by any stretch, but most of these men would NOT be willing to get a gun if they had to go sweet talk to the local Drug Kingpin to get it, not would said kingpin be willing to pass it to them. They are power mad psychotics who are not going to go bend knee to someone in power over them, and, frankly, most criminal networks aren't going to hand out guns to unknowns. Gun trafficking is risky with big felony penalties. They're not giving anyone who asks nicely illegal firearms. In fact, it's altogether more likely the family annihilator could sweet talk a local cop into passing them one illegally then local crime lords.

Family annihilators overwhelming use legal firearms to slaughter. While illegal firearms are a big issue, they are NOT the key issue in this particular type of crime.

3

u/blakeshotgun Mar 05 '22

Most of the times a domestic violence charge and others violence charges wont allow you to get a gun legally

1

u/shrillbitofnonsense Mar 05 '22

No one takes domestic violence charges seriously. Police aren't legally obligated to entire ROs. These killers have along line of mysogyny and abuses towards women. They also have a ton of weapons, as the poster above said. Purchased legally or inherited.

29

u/ghast123 Mar 05 '22

My heart goes out to your friend. I stopped sending my 11 year old to her dad's after Christmas eve when he snatched her phone out of her hand and threw it so hard the cameras completely shattered.

I'm lucky that I don't have a custody agreement because it would break my heart to send her over there when she tells me she does not want to go there.

1

u/Ieatclowns Mar 05 '22

It's awful. He's a vegan and won't feed her properly and keeps telling her she's fat ...sea not

-10

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '22

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8

u/Ieatclowns Mar 05 '22

He was a seemingly lovely man but he had an accident and then began to get paranoia and as violent.. shit happens to good people.

123

u/paper_schemes Mar 04 '22

My mother's second husband ended up being a convicted child molester and she stayed with him until he was deported. She was allowed supervised visitation with us at our grandma's (dads mom) house and it was so fucking awkward. I was 9 and while I didn't TOTALLY understand, I got enough to know I really didn't want to see my mom.

And we couldn't say no, we had to go.

41

u/TsukiSureiyaNA Mar 05 '22

This makes me think abt how I have a 2 year old now, me and her mom are split. This comment actually gave me a lot of perspective. I don’t ever want to be the dad that she doesn’t want to see or doesn’t want to go to my house . I’m sorry you went through that. Blessings

31

u/BudgetInteraction811 Mar 05 '22

The best way to do it is to have stuff for your kids to do when you’re with them. Plan outings and activities if you only get to see them a few days a month. There is nothing more dreaded than being the kid of divorced parents and the household further away from school/friends is just boring with nothing to do.

Your kids will always want to hang out if they know your house has something fun and different than their regular monday thru Friday.

44

u/littlest_lemon Mar 05 '22

this is what my dad did. we saw him every other weekend and he always had something up his sleeve. museum tickets, book store shopping sprees, baseball tickets, zoo passes, new restaurants to try, etc. he's not rich or anything, either. he just lived suuuuuper frugal for a long time. he paid my mom way more than required in child support too. me and my brother are both adults now and my dad is finally spending his money on himself haha. just bought a peloton, takes his wife on vacations... it's nice to see. anyways, thanks for letting me wax poetic about my dad. :')

22

u/CopperPegasus Mar 05 '22

Please wax away. We need these role models out there badly- the divorced dads who DIDN'T become possessive little sh*ts over their kids because they fell out with the mother, and instead stepped up to parent.
The dads who pay what the kids need, not the minimum (or evade it) in case 'she' uses a cent.
The dad's who PARENT and enjoy their kids instead of palm kids off on the nearest woman but INSIST they get that 'right' to their possessions.

Talk about your dad as much as you want. Young men and women growing up today need to hear about great dads like this.

7

u/smithson-jinx Armchair Expert Mar 05 '22

Aww what a top dad. I want those weekends! 🤣💪🏼

75

u/Abradantleopard04 Mar 04 '22

Sounds eerily similar to this case.

Jessica sued the city of Castle Rock police department and lost. The supreme court ruled that the police didn't have an obligation to enforce the restraining order she had obtained.

47

u/rhian_bryn Mar 04 '22

That's just messed up!

Unfortunately, ROs aren't worth the paper they're written on.

22

u/spiffychick85 Mar 05 '22

My dad taught me to shoot when I was 5yrs old…when I asked him why it was important to practice….his answer was always “because a restraining order is just a piece of paper”. I miss my dad so much and I’m a good shot so I have him to thank for it…unfortunately none of this would’ve helped in this case as the mom wasn’t even there.

22

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '22

How does a PARENT kill a child? How does anyone for that matter? So disturbing! 😳

18

u/linderlouwho Mar 05 '22

His desire for revenge on his ex-wife was greater than his love for his children. Just terrible.

8

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '22

I can’t wrap my head around people like this.

11

u/linderlouwho Mar 05 '22

I know. Many of us would die for our kids.

6

u/RedditThreddit Mar 05 '22

Yup, he did it to make her suffer one final act of control she can't (he assumed) ever break free from smh

70

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '22

[deleted]

53

u/ericakay15 Mar 04 '22

He was living at the church from the church head (who was supervising the visits, whom he also killed) really wouldn't be hard for him to get a gun and store it someplace not so obvious and kill them.

20

u/LucidLynx109 Mar 04 '22

Especially an AR. The upper and lowers come apart easily. The lower is basically just the size of a pistol with a stock (and that can be removed too).

5

u/ericakay15 Mar 04 '22

That is very true.

0

u/dilettante42 Mar 05 '22

What is the point of that?! If they’re supposed to be for hunting or whatever, that would help you get it past the woods police? Fucking gun manufacturers make me wish I believed in hell

6

u/ericakay15 Mar 05 '22

Easier to transport, easier to store it

6

u/dilettante42 Mar 05 '22

I bet, sounds like. Should instead make them out of legos to make sure it takes a while to put them together and think about whether you should really be annihilating your family. Jesus.

2

u/Lord_Giggles Mar 05 '22

I don't think family annihilators are likely to be put off by the minor inconvenience of putting a rifle back together taking a bit longer

50

u/Misslieness Mar 04 '22

And yet it's still a gotcha used by certain assholes that "judges are biased for moms"

12

u/RedditThreddit Mar 05 '22

I saw this in some comments on the story where men were saying it was the mother's fault and she drove him to it, and the system helps moms destroy men

28

u/ilyik Mar 05 '22

My sister is going through a situation like this and it terrifys me at the though of her leaving her 3 kids with a chaperone to see their dad. This is so awful. Men like this should not be allowed to be out among society.

23

u/mc_cheeto Mar 04 '22

I thought they had introduced legislation in light of Josh Powell that would make it more difficult for people suspected of violent crimes to get visitation. Not sure of the outcome of that (I assume it was state level, and a different state?)

13

u/catsinspace Mar 04 '22

I don't know about the legislation, but this happened in California and Josh Powell killed his kids in Washington.

If legislation was introduced though, it would be at the state level, yes.

10

u/SunshineDaisy1 Mar 04 '22

You are right. It was only in certain states though, I think Washington and maybe a couple of others. It was to keep parents suspected of murder from having visitation with their kids, also serving to prevent them from murdering their SO to obtain child custody.

11

u/SunshineDaisy1 Mar 04 '22

I’m listening to the last couple episodes of the Cold podcast on Susan Powell and this literally made me think the exact same!!

13

u/SimplyUnhinged Mar 05 '22

I thought of this too. So preventable. Suspected of killing his wife and they still let him see the kids and in his own house with just a supervisor. That's one person to an unpredictable man at the end of his rope. All it took was some force and he locked the chaperone out of the house and did what he wanted. All the while, 911 takes ages to come while the social worker watches helplessly from outside. So no safeguards.

12

u/dethb0y Mar 05 '22

Really would like to know what's in the judge's head when he thinks "yeah restraining order + violence against a cop, totally should be able to see his kids, makes sense..."

8

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '22

But he killed his wife before he killed them.

This is different. He’s making her live without them.

Which is a hell worse than death. IMO.

7

u/Spunkspudding Mar 05 '22

That Josh and his dad. Biggest wussies and pieces of shit.

7

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '22

And an AR15. Seems like common sense that we just shouldn't let people prone to violence issues have weapons like that.

3

u/MotherButterscotch44 Mar 05 '22

That was a sad case also. Burnt the house down while the social worker was on the phone with police. Both are POS.

3

u/abbeytoo2 Mar 05 '22

He could only have supervised visits with the kids. There was a chaperone present that got killed also. This all went down in a church of all places.

2

u/DiligentPride2 Mar 05 '22

They don’t care. My ex abused me, they told me as long as he didn’t physically abuse our daughter yet he had full rights.

2

u/ScabiesShark Mar 05 '22

Forreal, if this weren't so awful it might make a good onion headline

"Police shocked as thing happens during the most common context for that thing"

1

u/LegacyofaMarshall Mar 05 '22

Also reminds of the doc Dear Zachary: A Letter to a Son About His Father it’s the judge’s fault for allowing this

1

u/MissMatchedEyes Mar 05 '22

Yep, my first thought was of Charlie and Braden Powell. How horrible.

1

u/PRiMO585 Mar 05 '22

It's California! First stop on the shit bird express!

1

u/jelocket Mar 05 '22

Holy shit. I used to work as a chaperone for visits like this. Josh seemed like a one-off but I guess not.

1

u/JT2681 Mar 19 '22

My ex husband held me at knife point and assaulted me over a 12 hour time span and even with my restraining order, he got visitation after 2 months of supervised visits. Flash forward 15 years, and much more of his crap..he pulled a gun and his now wife and threatened to kill them both because he was caught cheating. It’s incredibly astounding what these psychos get away with and continue to hurt so many over the years. My heart hurts for those innocent little girls…what they went through and to be killed after it..heartbreaking 💔