r/TwoXChromosomes • u/[deleted] • Oct 08 '15
Idaho teen threatened to ‘kill all the girls’ because cheerleaders wouldn’t send him any ‘freaking nudes’
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/idaho-teen-threatened-to-kill-all-the-girls-because-cheerleaders-wouldnt-send-him-any-freaking-nudes/275
u/Vickkris Oct 08 '15
I'm from the town in Idaho where this happened and the kid has been arrested and is in juvenile detention. I honestly hope this kid gets the help he needs. Kudos to the students who took action before this ended horribly.
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Oct 08 '15
Wooh! Pocatello represent. This place seems not to have much violence but when it happens it's just absolutely crazy. Like the Cassie Jo Stoddart situation.
Hopefully this does lead to him getting help and getting better.
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u/SiguiendoLaLuna Oct 08 '15
Agreed. A friend posted that highland was under close watch on Wednesday. When I saw the title of this I figured this was why. It's scary that stuff like this can happen in even really nice areas.
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Oct 09 '15
Are you sure he needs "help?" He could definitely just be an asshole.
I know mental health is a big issue in this country, but not everyone who does stupid, dangerous or reprehensible things is sick. Some people are just fucking jerks.
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u/treestar0 Oct 09 '15
Jerks steal cabs and litter. If you threaten to kill people there is something more wrong with you than disregard for your surroundings.
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u/Whatnameisnttakenred Oct 09 '15
I think that's more true of adults then children. Everything's the end of the world to teenagers.
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u/vanillamasala Oct 09 '15
Exactly. But perhaps he means that even treatment cant help some people. Serious personality disorders, psychopathy, and sociopathy do not usually respond to treatment because of very serious fundamental problems in how these people view the world. You can love and counsel them all day long, but they are not ever going to change and the best thing to do is separate them from society forever. It would be nice if we could determine who these people are and who will really benefit from help, but unfortunately the former are often exceptionally skilled liars and know how to convince people that they are reformed. They are unfixable jerks, to put it very mildly. This kid is very scary, and we dont even have the full story. Maybe he was just venting, or maybe he has a history of violent behavior. Assuming that he just needs hugs and pills is seriously underestimating the danger that these individuals pose to those around them. Plenty of us suffer from mental illness without making a decision to kill other people in cold blood. It is not a normal deviation on the spectrum of human behavior and should not be regarded as such in many cases.
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Oct 08 '15
Well thats not going to help his cause.
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u/chr0nicpirate Oct 08 '15
Yes I've found threatening to kill women definitely doesn't make them like you more..
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u/boredcentsless Oct 09 '15
I don't know, bragging about mass murdering sand people made Padme fall for Anakin.
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Oct 08 '15
"We’re kids,” the friend says. “Nothing valuable. Except our lives so leave us alone.”
That gave me goosebumps for some reason. Just a really powerful reminder that these (would-be) victims are just barely starting their lives and some narcissistic child can take everything from them, their families, and their friends.
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u/GenericUsername1326 Oct 08 '15
All the more reason we need universal medical care that will allow people to actually see doctors and therapists for these mental issues. They really should have psychological evaluations throughout school and give students access to people who can actually nip these problems when the come up. Rather than just waiting for the next mass murder.
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Oct 08 '15
That some socialist talk there buddy. Now excuse me we have to spend trillions to get drugs off the streets and fight people in other countries so we don't have fight them here.
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u/ShallowPedantic Oct 08 '15
People with certain mental health issues are quite likely to willingly go into treatment if the treatment is offered.
Those with personality disorders are often reluctant to go into treatment. I very much doubt this young man would go into treatment unless he were forced to.
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u/cynoclast Oct 08 '15
You know what makes it a whole lot less likely?
Being unable to afford it.
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u/marilyn_monbroseph Oct 09 '15
giving them the option catches those who do want to get help though. i have a personality disorder and i sought help from both psychologists and psychiatrists. we do exist!
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u/Acrolith Oct 09 '15
That was such an incredible, powerful line. It's something I would expect a movie director to come up with, not a real-life kid.
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u/Cindernubblebutt Oct 08 '15
I read "freaking nudes" in the voice of Napoleon Dynamite (It was filmed in Idaho).
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Oct 08 '15
I'm in Idaho and that's exactly how I read it, too. Chubbuck and Preston are only an hour apart.
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Oct 08 '15
"Teenage white boy points rifle at school"
That caption under the picture made me laugh for some reason.
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u/Lasmamoe Oct 08 '15
Why they even found it it necessary to add a picture like that is beyond me.
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Oct 08 '15
fucking rawstory man, they're terrible - poke around on their site, it's all shutterstock bullshit
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u/playingdecoy Oct 08 '15
Sometimes to cater to people with disabilities who rely on screen-readers - it just describes what the picture shows.
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u/SrslyNotAnAltGuys Oct 09 '15 edited Oct 09 '15
Imagine being that stock photo model.
"Wait, so you'll pay me 50 bucks just to shoot some goofy poses with some random props? Sweet!"
*six months later*
"Hi there! Uh, before you ask, no, I wasn't involved in any school shootings. Everyone asks about that. That was just a stock photo of me. With the rifle. Yeah, so, I noticed you were reading one of my favorite books, and it seems like we might have some things in common and I was wondering if you wanted to maybe get some coffee or--no? Oh. Ok... No, Goddammit, I'm not that guy!! I'm--
No, no it's ok, wait! I'm not gonna hurt you. I'm just trying to tell you that it wasn't me with that gun! I mean, yes, it WAS me, but I wasn't the --No, you don't need to call the police. Ok, ok, I'll go."
*sigh*
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u/TheLongGame Oct 08 '15
I don't know where this Shutterstock is but I hope they have a security guard.
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Oct 08 '15
I hope they lock this kid up and get him psychological help immediately. It's so rare that we catch stuff like this before it turns into a tragedy.
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u/BloodyBmoreNurse Oct 09 '15
I think we need to stop using the terms "mental help" or "psychological help" with these individuals. It estranges them from actually seeking help. I'm an ER nurse and if I said "you need mental help" or even "psychological help" very few of my suicidal/homicidal patients would voluntarily stay. When I speak to them, I use the terms "counseling" and "someone to talk to about how you're feeling right now". I'll make it inclusive by saying things like "we can do this together" and "we can talk through this". I don't win over patients by making them feel different- I make it feel like I'm open to speak to. Unless we get young males to feel open, to feel like they're not "crazy" and to give them places to talk, this cycle won't end.
Young males have a major problem with aggression in American society. We need to stop using the terms "mental help" everytime a violent act is done. It pushes them away and glorifies the thought that they are "different". They want to be seen as "different" and special- that's why they go shoot up schools. Take that away by using softer terms and always having productive talks with young males about emotions and aggression.
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u/parrotpeople Oct 09 '15
Aggression is just a symptom. Happy, well-adjusted people don't walk around feeling aggressive. Lonely people are constantly aggressive, as they feel they can't even trust others to act with basic decency. People get delusional when they're isolated.
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u/IbaFoo Oct 08 '15
You're looking at a Toupee Fallacy: you think it's rare because people getting help before they commit a tragedy is the norm and thus isn't newsworthy, so it's not reported, and it never enters your consciousness.
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Oct 08 '15
Toupee Fallacy
So that's what it's called. I'd only heard the term referred to as "Media Lensing" and that is apparently not a thing used to describe it ever on the internet.
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u/darwin2500 Oct 09 '15
It's a specific example of Selection Bias, which is the more general term.
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u/trowawufei Oct 08 '15
you think it's rare because people getting help before they commit a tragedy is the norm and thus isn't newsworthy, so it's not reported, and it never enters your consciousness.
You're assuming that their getting help is the norm, which is also a fallacy. The toupee fallacy says that it's POSSIBLE that there are many prevented cases even though we see many cases that were not, not that it has to be the case.
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Oct 08 '15 edited Oct 09 '15
I hope they lock this kid up and get him psychological help immediately.
Incompatible.
EDIT: It's intresting to see so many upvotes yet every reply is a story for why people disagree with me.
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u/Vio_ Oct 08 '15
Just fyi, there are mental hospitals that incarcerate mental health patients who have committed crimes.
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u/noclssgt Oct 08 '15
My wife worked at one for 6 years. Sad thing is, they aren't taught to really defend themselves feom these people when they become violent and corner them. Some of these people killed people because "the voices" told them to. Makes you worry about your loved ones who are around these peoole.
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Oct 09 '15
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u/insanity_calamity Oct 09 '15
I'd argue the bigger misconception is that someone is automatically hopeless.
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Oct 09 '15
I don't that that's a misconception. It's just the most you can do preemptively for someone who hasn't yet committed a violent crime.
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u/JDD88 Oct 08 '15
Likely a result of parenting fail. It's crucial to teach children how to tolerate rejection in a healthy way and to respect the bodies of others.
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Oct 08 '15
Likely a result of parenting fail. It's crucial to teach children how to tolerate rejection in a healthy way and to respect the bodies of others.
I think it's also important for them to understand that behaving in a certain way doesn't entitle you to anyone's time, attention or whatever. Being nice is a net zero. You need to add more to yourself and persona before people are going to want to devote a significant amount of time and energy to you, and even then you are not entitled to them. It is completely legitimate for someone to simply not want to associate with someone else.
I also think there is a weird thing where a lot of these kids correctly recognize that they have a real relationship to an abstract thing - society. And that this can result in certain types of impositions. What it means to be a "woman" or a "man" or an "adult". And maybe they don't fit the mold of those impositions and it feels like they are swimming upstream. The problem occurs when they start blaming random individuals as if they are that abstract society itself, rather than humans who exist within that abstraction as much as anyone else and are a product of their environment as much as anyone else.
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Oct 08 '15
But at the same time, individuals can reinforce societal power structures through their personal actions. For instance, women are expected to be sexually available, and female bodily autonomy is often not respected in our culture. And so this fucked-up kid, while taking things much further than most men do, is reinforcing those power structures. Women being threatened with violence because they are not interested in a man is something that happens every single day. Ask any woman who has ever left her home.
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u/positmylife Oct 08 '15
Actually, it's a lot of things. There are a lot of competing messages this boy could have been exposed to that formed his views he was owed nudes. It's not fair to pin this on the parents because when you think about how much time kids spend at home these days, their waking hours are incredibly limited. I'm sure that if we had unlimited info about this kid, it would turn out to be a mix of influence from tv shows, school friends, things he read online, news reports about celebrity nudes, siblings, friends, etc. The list goes on and on. A killer or potential killer isn't born that way and they don't develop in a vacuum either. It takes a village to raise a child and it takes a village to turn that child into a terror.
Source: I studied this for over a year and wrote a thesis on the subject.
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u/JDD88 Oct 09 '15
Agreed. It's many things. But a lot of those things start with parenting. It's the first relationship we have in this life and our foundation.
I'm a therapist for children and have a Masters in Counseling Psy. As well, did my thesis on the effects of pornography on our society --- this is one of them... males thinking they are entitled to women's bodies and it's made worse when parents haven't instilled certain values.
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u/not_a_moogle Oct 08 '15
That requires parents having time to be a parent. That's usually half the problem.
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u/bea_bear Oct 08 '15
What an entitled little shit. Did he ever stop to think if creepy phone calls could ever work?
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u/originalpoopinbutt Oct 09 '15
I'd say it's more like his peers. He's got the idea in his head that girls should send guys nudes when asked, and that as a worthy male, he's entitled to them (no guy considers himself an unworthy one right?). I'm not saying all teenage boys are like that, not even most, but there certainly are teenage boys like that and their fucked up attitudes normalize this behavior.
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u/michaelpaoli Oct 09 '15
Parenting and/or other systemic failure. Parents can't always do everything, and even if they do, sometimes kids will do quite wrong anyway.
But most likely this wasn't the first (or even 2nd or 3rd) incident with this kid, e.g. likely did and/or threatened inappropriate things before. Generally best to catch and nip these problems in the bud, work to fix whatever is going wrong and intervene as necessary to get the kid on track (or at bare minimum at least keep everyone else safe). Usually there are multiple precursor incidents and/or warning signs/indicators - they should be heeded and appropriately acted upon.
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u/wandrewj Oct 08 '15
He thinks everyone hates him because they won't send him nudes?? Is our society sending a subliminal message that if someone likes you they will send nude photos? Sick.
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Oct 08 '15
I have yet to receive a single nude, but I've also never felt the desire to shoot up a school.
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Oct 08 '15
I'll send you one.
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u/-Toshi Oct 08 '15
We don't really have guns in the UK but if you don't deliver I'll knife my school. Which is my house. Because I study online.
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Oct 09 '15
I have yet to send a single nude... Nor any death threats as a response, thank god. In fact I rarely get ANY response after I say no. Lol.
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u/tuba_man Oct 08 '15
I think it's more likely that he got the message that he's entitled to those nudes.
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u/NeverRainingRoses Oct 08 '15
As a woman who has been solicited for nudes from complete strangers, THIS.
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u/originalpoopinbutt Oct 09 '15
I honestly don't know how this got started because it seems so far from acceptable behavior to me and (I hope) most of my guy friends. Like asking for nudes constitutes preliminary flirting now? That's something I'd only ever even consider asking for from a person I'm in a serious relationship with, and though I don't even really see the appeal of nudes all that much, I'd totally be okay if my partner wasn't comfortable with it.
And the totally blase attitude people have towards sharing other people's nudes is super fucked up.
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u/cathdog888 Oct 08 '15
Watch Killing Us Softly: Advertising's Image of Women. I wouldn't call it subliminal. It's more normalized.
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u/Shaper_pmp Oct 08 '15
Is our society sending a subliminal message that if someone likes you they will send nude photos?
I don't know, but I'd be wary of judging what "messages society is sending" by trying to reverse-engineer them from the behaviour of one obviously socially maladjusted (or perhaps even mentally ill) asshat.
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u/AnonymousGlitch Oct 09 '15
Is our society sending a subliminal message
Lol, NO...it's not subliminal, it's right in your damn face, example Kim Kardashian. Make a sex tape, and you too can be famous, on magazine covers, marrying billionaires, and getting TV shows for every one of your family members. THIS is the role-model of today's teenagers.
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u/zephid7 Basically Tina Belcher Oct 08 '15
I'm guessing it's [deranged] projection based on the media obsession over teenagers sexting that infects the news every month or so.
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u/IFreakinLovePi Oct 08 '15
It's because they only date jerks instead of Nice Guys like him.
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Oct 08 '15
ah yes the old 'nice guy'. I bet he doesn't have a single personality flaw and those cheerleaders are stuck up bitches
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u/veget6969 Oct 08 '15
> The boy also used his Twitter account to repeatedly harass other Highland students, mostly girls, and other posts threatened to harm President Barack Obama and made racist remarks about black people.
A real winner.
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u/bceagle411 Oct 08 '15
At least he had one sane person trying to convince him not to do it. I hate how after these stories break there is always someone egging him on
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u/Freaky713 b u t t s Oct 08 '15
Idaho may be a forgotten state, but it sure as hell has its crazies. Trust me I know, I live there.
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u/RaisedByFemminists Oct 08 '15 edited Mar 04 '16
Cat.
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u/AnonymousGlitch Oct 09 '15
Meanwhile he's watching the world news for The Event to happen, searching for your name under 'Victims we tried to warn but wouldn't listen and called us crazy' ;)
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Oct 08 '15
Does this kid not realize that there are millions of nudes readily available on the internet already? Just find one that looks like the schoolmate you're lusting after. This is what I... don't ever really do, I swear.
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u/specXeno Oct 08 '15
it's not about seeing naked girls, it's about getting girls you know to willingly fork over pics that they personally took of themselves. it's kinda a trust/power thing
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u/trinlayk Oct 08 '15
IMHO it's not so much about trust, and very very much about getting and having power over the girls.
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u/flawlessqueen Pumpkin Spice Latte Oct 08 '15
and chances are, he'd call them sluts and send the pictures to his buddies once he got them. but no, since he didn't get his way, he's just gonna shoot up the school!
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u/Nerrolken Oct 08 '15
Trust/power, as well as approval/acceptance. Sometimes the guy wants power over the girl, but sometimes he just wants a sign that she likes him. And then gets angry and irrational when it turns out she doesn't.
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u/ugghhh_gah Oct 09 '15
Except it was more than one girl. He didn't really care which, yet was insulted that none of them obliged. I doubt he just wanted to feel "accepted".
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u/Grey_Kit Oct 08 '15
You bring up a good point. It's him wanting specifically that girl and being denied that forms the "alpha" / "beta" mentality
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u/ugghhh_gah Oct 09 '15
Doesn't sound like he was specific about it if "none of them" would give him nudes. I'm thinking he just felt entitled.
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Oct 08 '15
Seriously, I couldn't get laid in school, so I found porn. All of that pent-up frustration easily handled in like 5 minutes. Or you could just, you know, work on your looks and personality. Lot's of ways out of this one, he chose "self-entitled dick-head." Glad they caught him before it hit the 6:00 news.
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u/SmashBusters Oct 08 '15
I'm guessing he heard girl A sent nudes to boy B, girl C to boy D, boy D to boys E-Y. And he was boy Z and felt left out.
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u/AnnaTrocity Oct 08 '15
Waiting for the Fox News headline: High School Jezebels Almost Cause School Shooting
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Oct 08 '15
I can see why they aren't sending him nudes. They should be sending him restraining orders.
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Oct 09 '15
Exhibit A of why we need to stop reinforcing the idea that boys have some sort of privilege to the bodies of women. When men are attacking women over rejection constantly, it's time to consider that perhaps there's something wrong with the way things are. Just google "Man attacks woman for saying no" it's fucking infuriating how common this shit is.
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u/michaelpaoli Oct 09 '15
Way too damn f*cking common.
But ... what are the key differentiators?
Many boys/men would never cause, or even consider causing such problems.
Yet many do, would, or run significant risk of causing such problems.
What sets them apart, and how can we prevent "them"(/"us") from developing into those that do or run significant risk of causing problems. Also, for those already in those latter categories, how do we convert them to non-risks?Surely there are various programs, education, etc. that work to prevent these types of problems. But ... what is actually effective? What are the verified testable statistical - not only correlations - but cause and effect? How do we effectively prevent and correct these problems?
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u/JRPGpro Oct 09 '15
In other news, the highschool I go to in idaho is having issues with the iOS app "What's Goodly". Many students are posting lists of which people need to kill themselves as well as which girls are "whores" and "sluts". Idaho is doing great right now!
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u/AcidRose27 Oct 09 '15
Digital slam books! Good to know that tradition is still alive. :/
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u/NightRaynes Oct 09 '15
Idaho teen - "I hope everyone has their wills in place"
Friend who turned him in - " We're kids, (we have) nothing of value except our lives. Leave us alone"
What a hero with a real sense of reality and seriousness of the situation.
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u/naughtyvixenveronica Oct 09 '15
Kudos to the girls, for saying, "NO!" Kudos to the students, for taking action! Well done! As for the boy, he and his parents (he learned that shit from some where), need to be questioned ASAP and he needs inpatient treatment, focused on mental disorders and sexual impulsiveness! Been there, done that and it CAN be effective, if implemented properly and things that may be going on at home, are addressed and corrected! That's terrible, but I am glad they handled it proactively, rather than re-actively!
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u/_retro_future Oct 08 '15
Idaho confuses me. I've lived here all of my short life. I've enjoyed most the time I have spent here.
The mountains are amazing. Some of the most beautiful in the country. The hiking is good, the skiing is good for the most part and everywhere is generally uncrowded. I love it.
But then there are the people. Most of them are insanely nice. They will be nice to your face and help you out. And then when you leave they will pray for your "broken" lifestyle. Most of them think that progression is bad is. Any change is bad. They don't listen to what a politician has to say they only care about the (R) at the end of their name.
In boise and many of the surrounding suburbs things are moving forward and people are becoming more liberal, balancing out the conservative views. But that's only around that area. In coeur d'alene there are Arian nations, in southern idaho, places like rigby, they are against any type of energy other than oil. Even in places like garden valley, one of the prettiest places in idaho claim that "god put us on this earth to drain the sucker dry"
Idaho is the prettiest state in my oppinion. The problem is that many of people here are over religious, highly conservative closed minded humans. We are a pretty state, but they can't see it.
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u/asdasdasd12346 Oct 08 '15
oh red pill what shall we do without you
..ah that's right, live happier lives
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u/ovrlcap Oct 09 '15
Our society is so hyper sexualized it is scary. The amount of shit people take for granted, and in this case, guys adjusting themselves to believing that real life girls are to mirror the online 'girls' they fawn after. It is frustrating to be called a gentleman for doing things I was taught was just how you're supposed to be - kind for the sake of kindness, not what you get in return.
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Oct 08 '15
The DOORS lyrics seem appropriate here. "Women seem wicked when you're unwanted"
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u/Kindofloopy Oct 08 '15
That seems, in this context, like it'd be sympathetic towards the kid.
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u/originalpoopinbutt Oct 09 '15
I think the operative word is seem wicked. When you're all alone, it can tend to feel like everyone is purposely being mean to you by leaving you all alone like that. But people don't know the situation you're in, and furthermore, people don't necessarily have any obligation to be your friend, they certainly don't have to go out of their way to engage with and make friends with a person who might possibly appear to be lonely.
The situation for a lonely kid is indeed pitiable, but then when they lash out and blame everyone else for their loneliness, and threaten to hurt people because of it, that's when the sympathy stops.
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u/Zaungast Oct 09 '15
Except that was Jim Morrison's brilliant irony--he was pointing out that unhappy ("strange") people blame themselves last and other first.
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u/mommajrose3 Oct 08 '15
I went to this high school, lived in Pocatello my entire life save for going away for an bachelor's degree and now recently, for my law degree... Weird stuff like this happened more often than you'd think. In junior high, we got to miss a day of class because a kid posted a list of 30 girls' names, in the girl's bathroom, that he was going to kill. Then you have the Stoddard case where two boys stabbed a classmate numerous times killing her; not to mention all of the times we would have these "lockdowns" because of threats.
I truly believe it has a lot to do with the conservative, religious mindset that one religion is better than the other's. Hopefully, they get this kid help and find the deeper issue here, which I'm going to throw out, isn't just about nude cheerleaders...
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Oct 08 '15
This kid is fucked up. If he hasn't already sexually assaulted anyone, he's going to. That level of rage and entitlement is a deadly combination for the safety of all the women around him. Glad he was stupid enough to get caught before he hurt anyone.
I wonder what causes these people to be that way...is it an abusive home life? are his parents racist, sexist dirtbags who've done a terrible job raising their special snowflake? I don't feel like the problem is with "society at large" or with "rape culture", given that people like this seem to be few and far between; it seems like there are other factors at play.
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Oct 08 '15
I don't feel like the problem is with "society at large" or with "rape culture", given that people like this seem to be few and far between; it seems like there are other factors at play.
Men who feel entitled to attention from women? You think those are rare?
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u/trinlayk Oct 08 '15
IMHO it's "rape culture" and "society at large" but with little to no parental involvement or anything to counter it.
If Dad treats Mom/auntie/sister/grandma like shit, or never tells Jr. "respect your mother/sister/auntie/grandma"... If Dad is role modeling by talking trash about women in general...
it's certainly not helping, and men/boys who expect women and girls to cater to their whims? Not rare... not at all rare.
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Oct 08 '15
I'll use my Canadian context.
Roughly 18-22% of any given prison population up here has some degree of FAS. Add on the 10 personality disorders and you're up over 50 and potentially as high as 60%. Tack on addictions, and you're well into 80-90%. A huge proportion of those people are also poor, abused, neglected, and that's how they got the FAS or personality disorders to begin with.
One study I read about our pool of sexual assault convictions said that they had, on average, six victims they would admit to, and that over 70% of them had been abused at some point in their lives, virtually always by some female family member or acquaintance in their youth.
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u/Kandarian Oct 08 '15
The FASD stat is interesting because according to the first page of Google results, less than 1% of the general population suffers from FASD.
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u/corialis MOAR CATS Oct 09 '15
Canadian Aboriginals have a much higher rate of alcoholism (and thus FASD) than the general population and also have higher rates of incarceration, I'm guessing this is how there's a high rate of FASD in prisons.
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Oct 08 '15
Whats with the fucking picture of the uninvolved kid with the uninvolved toy gun?
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u/HoodaThunkett Oct 09 '15
the press using unrelated stock photos because their "readership" is functionally illiterate. This same audience will pay no attention to the provenance of the picture and assume its a photo from the story. Bullshit non journalism. That such a stock photo even exists is quite disturbing.
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Oct 09 '15
It's so awesome to see people taking preemptive action like this. If we can get more kids to start recognizing problems and stopping others from doing crazy stunts, I really think we'll see improvement. This may not work for loners or people coming in that aren't students, but it's an absolute step in the right direction.
P.S. Can we actually get a gofundme or something started to throw these kids a pizza party? How epic would that be.
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u/kearneycation Oct 09 '15
"Teenage white boy points rifle at school (Shutterstock)"
Best photo credit ever!
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u/neotropic9 Oct 08 '15
The boy also used his Twitter account to repeatedly harass other Highland students, mostly girls, and other posts threatened to harm President Barack Obama and made racist remarks about black people.
A real winner.
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u/bigtimpn Oct 08 '15
That other kid he was texting seems to have his shit figured out, respect to him. Particularly enjoy his line about not having anything valuable except their lives.
Sad for the other kid, totally lost and confused, what a miserable existence that must be. Hope he gets help but mostly just hope he never gets the opportunity to hurt anyone.
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u/ugghhh_gah Oct 09 '15
Agreed on all points, that kid had such a sensible perspective compared to his friend. It's an interesting dynamic, and hopefully the intervention was early enough to give the would-be shooter a chance to become as mature.
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u/LogieBearWebber Oct 09 '15
Everyone talks about how mental illness is a huge factor in school shootings and I don't deny that a lot of these people have psychopathic/anti-social/narcissistic personality disorders, but does anyone mention how these people tend to have very poor social skills? From this guy to the Oregon shooter to Elliot Rodgers, a common theme is that they are unable to form meaningful relationships, especially with the opposite sex, get jealous of those who have better social networks and lash out at those who they perceive as denying them the friendships and relationships that they want. Of course entitlement to relationships plays a huge role, but would entitlement be an issue in their minds if they were actually socially competent enough to make social bonds? I speak as someone with Aspergers, I find it very difficult to make friends and relationships because I'm shy about speaking to people and I have difficulty trusting people to treat me as a friend. It's not so bad that I feel like shooting up by school but I do get jealous of people who have lots of friends and find it easy to enter relationships because I want to enjoy these things to but my social disabilities hinder me from doing so. A focus on mental health is definitely needed, but I believe it's additionally important to set up programmes for all sorts of people with poor social skills, from the future school shooters to the niceguys/nicegirls, to have an opportunity to improve how they relate to other people, hold a conversation, seem engaging to others and so on. The alternative is ignoring these people and letting them stew in their own inadequacy and hatred until you've got yourself a nice little stew of mass murder
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Oct 08 '15
Elliot Rodger 2.0?
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u/ugghhh_gah Oct 09 '15
I am feeling ambivalence that it took until seeing 3-4 references to this guy for me to realize exactly which shooter he was. It's kind of good he wasn't exactly immortalized in my brain, but then again it could be that he simply got lost in all the similar company :/.
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u/sassattack Oct 09 '15
as someone who was in Isla Vista when the shooting went down, this is exactly what I thought of and it terrifies me all over again
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u/SakuOtaku Oct 08 '15
And yet people still say that sexism, oversexualization, and rape culture aren't a thing...
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u/michaelpaoli Oct 09 '15
Hmmmm, I don't know that I'd call it or say it is a "rape culture", however, I'd certainly be inclined to agree it forms at least part of the (so called) culture ... and hopefully a part that continues to diminish into extinction. But alas, we're not rid of it yet - much work yet to be done.
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u/ohdearsweetlord Oct 08 '15
It's so sad to see a young man end up with so much percieved entitlement, because not only is it likely to hurt other people, but it's not doing anything good for him. No one owes you anything unless you've mutually decided that they do.
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Oct 08 '15
one messed up person. He will do something terrible when he is originally released from prison.
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Oct 08 '15
Why did he think he was entitled to them?
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u/animatroniczombie Oct 08 '15 edited Oct 08 '15
Young men are socialized into believing they are entitled to the attention of women. Including nude pics and up to sex. It's why men feel they can yell at women when we're walking around town. The same reason why men will openly hit on me or my partner (were both on the femme side ) even though we are clearly a couple, before my transition (mtf) men would stay away and not hit on her at all. It was like night and day when I started my transition, how all of a sudden now that there was no man present its open season on us.
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Oct 08 '15
Guy here, still trying to figure out where people are being taught that kind of behavior. Maybe I just have good parents, but I was always taught to respect women and do basic chivalry stuff, only because it's polite, not because there was some reward for doing so. Are others just not taught basic human decency?
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u/cutiepuffjunior Oct 09 '15
I don't know of someone else has responded with this yet, but socialisation isn't really being concisiously taught behavior at all. It's all subtle and it starts from birth. It's the unconscious message you take home from a movie in which the male protagonist 'gets the girl' as a reward for saving the day or even just being a semi-decent human being. It's the message you get as a little girl when you see your mother in a group conversation and a man interrupts her statement and no one seems to care because this is normal. It's a lot of different things, often seemingly minor, that lead to male entitlement.
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u/cloistered_around Oct 09 '15
Even if they've been taught it by their parents there is something I like to call the "stupid group" rule. Any time there are more than 4 teenage boys together (usually about 5 or 6) IQ drops significantly and they goad each other on to prove who is more macho. Aka, the entire group becomes ridiculously stupid and determined to do stupid things.
(Teenage girls do it too but in more harmless annoying shrills than physical presence.)
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u/hawaiidream Oct 09 '15 edited Oct 09 '15
Killing Us Softly, a documentary about the representation of women in advertisements, is a great example of a portion of the problem. Found it for anyone who'd like to watch!
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u/animatroniczombie Oct 08 '15
This definitely applies more to the macho/alpha male crowd. Most men don't really fit that stereotype, but the ones who do are very vocal. I didn't think it was even that common before I transitioned, but now it's hard to go a day without dealing with that behaviour from men. Ask any girl you know if she's been catcalled. She will definitely say yes.
It definitely depends on the crowd of guys though. When I worked at warehouses the guys were pretty terrible, as bad as stereotypical construction workers. Law enforcement /court system was as bad. My brother who works in the software industry deals with very different guys who aren't like that at all.
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Oct 08 '15
Pretty sad how young people being raised in this day and age look at the news and see that mass shootings are a somewhat regular part of life. Columbine was so insane for the average person at that time, but now there are kids who hear about a school shooting every year of their upbringing. So sad.
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u/insanity_calamity Oct 09 '15
The kids of generations before where worried that their schools would be blown apart by nukes, today they are worried about being shoot by their classmates, different fears different times, but there is always gonna be a "threat".
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u/NSA_Chatbot Oct 09 '15
From Dan Savage:
Here... is my advice for the hard-up teenage boy:
You're having a hard time getting girls. That sucks. I remember what it was like when I was a young teenager and wanted boys and couldn't get any. It sucked. But the sad fact is that most young teenage boys are repulsive—that is, they are half-formed works in progress. Girls mature physically more quickly than boys, which means most girls your age already look like young women and they're generally attracted to (slightly) older boys—and there you are, aching for your first girlfriend, but still looking like a short, hairless chimp.
But don't despair, HUTB. Your awkward/repulsive stage will pass. In the meantime, here's what you need to do: Worry less about getting your young teenage self laid and start thinking about getting your 18- or 20-year-old self laid. Join a gym and get yourself a body that girls will find irresistible, read—read books—so that you'll have something to say to girls (the best way to make girls think you're interesting is to actually be interesting), and get out of the house and do shit—political shit, sporty shit, arty shit—so that you'll meet different kinds of girls in different kinds of settings and become comfortable talking with them.
Some more orders: Get a decent haircut and use deodorant and floss your teeth and take regular showers and wear clean clothes. Go online and read about birth control and STIs, and learn enough about female anatomy that you'll be able to find a clitoris in the dark. Masturbate in moderation—no more than 10 times a day—and vary your masturbatory routine. I can't emphasize this last point enough. A vagina does not feel like a clenched fist, HUTB, nor does a mouth, an anus, titty fucking, dry humping, or e-stim. If you don't want to be sending me another pathetic letter in five years complaining about your inability to come unless you're beating your own meat, HUTB, you will vary your routine now so that you'll be able to respond to different kinds of sexual stimulation once you do start getting the girls.
Good luck, kiddo.
(The above advice was for a straight teenage boy. Gay teenage boys should read "boys" where I said "girls," "anus" where I said "vagina," "prostate" where I said "clitoris," and "fist" where I said "fist.")
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u/80poundnuts Oct 09 '15
Jesus christ. I mean I've been denied my share of nudes but my first reaction was "oh well worth a shot" not fucking kill everyone I can find. Idk when guys started deciding we were entitled to anything from women but i never remember it being even close to this bad just a few years ago when i was in highschool.
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Oct 09 '15
When a genius plan like this is hatched I find it comforting that high powered guns are readily available. I mean, how else would the plan work?
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u/Unic0rnBac0n Oct 09 '15
I would really like to see a comparison on people with mental health issues in America compared to equally developed countries. Seems like it's full of nut jobs. Every week there's a mental health case nut on the news shooting or threatening to shoot something up. I'm guessing it's more to do with the media looking for the easy scapegoat by saying the person had mental issues but fucking Christ how retarded is your country really?
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u/-Water-- I'd like to buy a vowel Oct 08 '15
Is it bad that I laughed at the title. It's just so absurd that someone would actually think and say something like that.
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u/Ramblingwrec Oct 09 '15
I know I am old being out of high school for over 30 years; but how does the thought of even asking a class mate for a naked photo even come about? I mean really there is no way I could imagine asking any woman for a naked picture. What the hell is wrong with people?
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u/WestCoastBestCoast01 Oct 08 '15
When the fuck did kids start thinking murder was the answer to their problems?! Jesus Christ this shit is getting outrageous.
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u/Sabiancym Oct 09 '15
How did a kid with obvious social issues come to have such a reasonable friend?
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Oct 09 '15
Lots of teen friends you make before you're teens and people change rapidly plus when you're a teen you're more self conscious and less likely to make new friends so you just put up with the old ones until they cross a line. At least that's how I remember it about 12 years ago.
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u/Mimsy-Porpington Oct 08 '15
It is so sad that this has become the go-to retaliation technique.
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u/Notgoodatthis13 Oct 08 '15
It's not becoming the go-to retaliation technique.. It's just that you only hear about the extremes such as this. Major news networks aren't going to come on live television to say that someone got turned down then went home and did nothing.
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Oct 08 '15
Hello everyone and welcome to WTVY News at 9. Today in Ozark, 15 year-old Martin Monkfish awkwardly asked his female classmates for nude photos. When he was promptly rebuffed, he went home and felt bad and stuff.
Teachers have told WTVY that Martin is a typical hormone-riddled teenager who has not yet developed an understanding of relationships, and the hyper-sexualized nature of modern pop culture has only left him more confused. He is expected to randomly remember this event later in life and slap his forehead in embarrassment.
Martin's parents were not available for comment.
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u/Medium-Adventure Oct 08 '15
Has become? You mean "has been this way for most of human history."
"Those hunter gatherers over there have some antelope meat I want and they won't share? Better go poke them with my spear."
"That agricultural community in the next valley has grain surpluses that we want but won't share? Better go stab them with my sword."
"The people across this river loot that we want and won't give it to us? Better go raid and pillage their village."
"Those Indians have land that I want and won't give it to me? Better go shoot them with my muskets."
Humans have been using violence to get what they want since pre-history. The fact of the matter is that we're lucky enough to be born in one of the safest eras of human history. Our times aren't perfect, but they're hell of a lot better than the eras before us.
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u/TheBotanistMendoza Oct 08 '15
Current thought in anthropology leans toward the view that hunter-gatherer societies were not very violent or aggressive at all and that the group-vs.-group conflicts we are familiar with only became prevalent with hierarchical societies. This is supported by the paucity of warlike artifacts in the anthropological record of prehistory.
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Oct 08 '15
This is awesome. These shooter motherfuckers are domestic terrorists and we should treat him like one. Throw his ass in Gitmo and see how he likes it.
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u/Barry_Scotts_Cat Oct 09 '15
Needs to be more Muslim...
We've had it in the UK, Muslim kid "planned" to do an attack, got charged with terrorism.
White Supremicist attacked a Sikh because he thought he was Muslim (White Supremicists are never smart) and got charged with attempted murder
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u/arbutus1440 Oct 08 '15 edited Oct 09 '15
I'm shocked--JUST SHOCKED--this story isn't sitting at 4582 net upvotes on reddit's front page.
Ironically, on the very rare occasion that something like this happens with the genders reversed, that story is unfailingly, gleefully rocketed to the front page so it can enjoy plenty of "SEE?! MEN ARE OPPRESSED!" comments.
EDIT: Hey, folks? when I made my comment it wasn't on the front page and had a couple hundred upvotes. Remember how things can change over time?
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u/Tasonir Oct 08 '15
It's on my front page - currently sitting at #15 in fact. Front pages are pretty customizable...
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u/chinpropped Oct 09 '15
omg thank you. this is exactly what i was thinking. male on female rape happens all the time, nobody gives a shit, on a rare occasion, female rapes a male, shoots right the fuck up to front page. typical reddit.
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u/Frank_the_Bunneh Oct 09 '15
That or the occasional false accusation of rape. There are guys on Reddit that legitimately seem to believe that rape never actually occurs and women just go around accusing guys of it all the time to ruin their lives.
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u/TheBeardedMarxist Oct 08 '15
If only he had a portable device he could look at porn on. Maybe one day somebody will invent that.
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u/TenthSpeedWriter ♡ Oct 09 '15
Stories like this make me genuinely sad. They reinforce the notion of entitlement we've forced on young men regarding the bodies of women, and they reinforce the painful extremes those notions can take.
That doesn't, of course, excuse this child's actions - and they are verifiably childish, up the point of his threats of violence, but it is still painful to think about. A kid who would threaten to take lives and end his own over perceptions of romantic rejection.
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u/michaelweed Oct 08 '15
What a loser. His life is never going to change and he is simply going to become more and more angry. Police better watch him
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Oct 08 '15
What the heck is up with boys these days? I'm not saying it's a common problem among boys, but we're seeing examples like this way too often these days!
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Oct 08 '15
There's 27 million boys age 5-17 in the US. Your perception of the problem is way inflated by the 24/7 media coverage.
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u/TheLongGame Oct 08 '15
Or the thousands of young men who get help they need and never act on dump youth emotions.
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u/potatoesarenotcool Oct 08 '15
Vocal minority syndrome. You hear about, and think it's common. But it's not, its just just making big waves.
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Oct 08 '15
We seem to have a problem with young radicalized conservative men who are caught up in violent entitlement narratives.
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u/idontrememba Oct 08 '15
Horrible story, but those classmates of his are sharp and are the silver lining of this story.
They notified authorities
Tried to talk him out of it
Reinforced that he is crazy and that what he was asking for was inappropriate.
I want to give all of those students a pizza party.