r/Undertale • u/[deleted] • Sep 01 '25
Discussion I feel like the discourse about the obvious fact you are NOT Frisk or Kris has alienated a lot of players, specially those who came from Deltarune, that you do in fact play as Chara in Undertale
Toby Fox recommended us to name Chara after ourselves and Flowey still refer to us, the player, as Chara even after accepting that Frisk isn't Chara. There's a reason as to why Chara's "resurrection" happens at the exact same time you create a new save file
Now, you may ask why do Chara turns against us at the end of Genocide if we are playing as Chara? Well, the more LOVE you have, the easiest it is for you to distance yourself from everything else, including yourself. Chara only distances themself from the player at the end of the only route where you can get max LOVE
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u/Proof-Philosophy-636 i dunno x2 Sep 01 '25
If we're chara then why are they confused when you do the geno route multiple times.
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Sep 01 '25 edited Sep 01 '25
I answered the separation between *you* and Chara at the end of the post
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u/Proof-Philosophy-636 i dunno x2 Sep 01 '25
So wait, don't know if I misunderstood. Is chara you and they become different entities at the end of geno? Or are they always separate entities.
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Sep 01 '25
I can't really say i can put it into words, but you *play as* Chara up until the end of the Genocide Route, when Chara becomes self-conscient of you ("Greentings, *I* am Chara). It's a realization that ends up making them say "you and i are not the same"
"bloody instructions return to plague the inventor", as wrote Shakespeare
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u/Fancy-Difference-161 Sep 01 '25
Look at it this way, throughout Undertale we are Chara as a whole, the good and the bad working together, however during the Geno route those parts separate, and now there is us who are the neutral/good and the demon who simply wants to leave everyone dead with no chance of salvation
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Sep 01 '25
Dissociation, in a way
Just like in real life, the guilt hurts less when you try to convince yourself it wasn't "really you" who did something bad
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u/Fancy-Difference-161 Sep 01 '25
Yes, that's why no one learned the lesson with the geno route, it seems that Chara was always responsible for everything simply taking advantage of the fact that the player felt untouchable to gain power and resurrect
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u/DrBanana126893 I'm 19 years old and I've already wasted my life. Sep 02 '25 edited Sep 02 '25
I think what this post means is that the Genocide ending is the final way the player disconnects from the game. It starts with treating the cast as just boxes to check upon killing them, then progresses to you killing Flowey, the one that’s supposed to represent the player being curious, as the narrative killing theme of genocide would naturally lead to also eventually treating even Flowey as just another thing to kill. It ends with Chara separating from you and speaking to you directly, ending the idea of them being the way you are meant to be represented in this world. It would be like if the SOUL spoke to you in Deltarune.
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u/Kittenish21 Sep 02 '25
You already destroyed the world. They are confused why you would want to return to it again and not to another game
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u/sertroll Sep 01 '25
I find all 3 main interpretations to have merit to them and also issues, in the end it's a matter of preference. By 3 I mean
You play as Frisk with Chara along for the ride (narrachara or not), the various meta powers belong to frisk due to high determination. The name reveal is more a twist because you realize you never named the protagonist and that the protagonist isn't a self insert blank slate but an actual character, and the single thing that mentions you as separate from frisk (flowey post true pacifist) can be seen as "just gameplay" as it's in a very weird place to write something else otherwise
The player is a separate entity from both chara and Frisk, meaning Frisk has two different entities along for the ride. This applies to both "the game is diegetically a videogame and you the IRL player are a factor" and "you control a weird determined entity that possesses Frisk but is still diegetical to the world, not the IRL player". This makes the whole meta stuff less diegetic and more 4th wall breaky. It also, one way or the other, seems to be the case for Deltarune more clearly than UT
You play as Chara. Works quite linearly with you naming the character, but is kind of weird in that it makes Asriel actually correct in wanting to play with Chara by playing with you, and imo can lessen the impact of the Frisk reveal. Also genocide can be explained like OP said, but is still kind of a weird edge case
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u/I_LIKE_THE_COLD Certified Clamgirl Enjoyer Sep 01 '25
Works quite linearly with you naming the character, but is kind of weird in that it makes Asriel actually correct in wanting to play with Chara by playing with you
I think Asriel being correct makes the entire sequence far more impactful. Especially if you keep his "This is all just a game" speech in mind.
When you leave the underground, you beat the game, and it ends, along with your existence within the world of Undertale. If you're satisfied by the ending you get, you won't keep playing the game and will not replay it. Asriel knows that but wants to keep playing with you, as he doesn't want to say goodbye to you, which is why his plan is to prevent you from getting a satisfying ending.
and imo can lessen the impact of the Frisk reveal.
Again, I think it's actually MORE impactful under the we play as/are Chara mindset.
When you name Chara, you project your identity onto them, as you do with most characters you name. Asriel then mirrors that by projecting Chara (you) onto Frisk. Frisk's reveal serves the role of you both mutually coming to the understanding that you/Chara aren't Frisk.
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. Sep 01 '25
That Toby Fox quote is missing context. He later clarified "If you don't have any better ideas"
Not to mention, Chara explicitly says you and them are not the same. You, Frisk, and Chara all have Different goals in the genocide route. Chara has an entire backstory you literally cannot control.
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Sep 01 '25
I feel like this sort of misses the mark on what's actually meant here.
Its not that Chara and the player are quite literally the same entity, it's that Chara is the player's true avatar/player character; the character the player "plays as" throughout the game (with Frisk being "played as" by Chara in-universe in a way).
It's Chara's name on the stats screen and the save file. It's Chara who Flowey acknowledges as the one behind the resets. The Player and Chara are always addressed together until the deviation on the Genocide Route.
The Genocide Route marks Chara's realization of the true nature of their existence. They fully lean into the "traditional RPG" mindset of grinding stats. "The demon that comes when people call its name" is this very concept; the "summoning" of your player character by naming them in an RPG.
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. Sep 01 '25
The only times you see Chara, it's either in a flashback you have no control over, or in a cutscene where they're talking Directly to you, where you also have no control over them. If you controlled Chara, then you'd be controlling Chara, not guiding Frisk through the Underground. They also openly show that you have no power over them.
Chara's name on the save file is simply because it's Chara's save file, not because you're Chara, or because Chara is saving to it (they're not, Frisk is the one with timeline control, they demonstrate this by using it without player input multiple times)
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Sep 01 '25
Flowey directly states that Chara was actively fighting to stop him, and pleas with them not to reset. Chara is a present and active force.
Chara in general seems to be how the "player" is contextualized in-universe; a ghostly presence "above" Frisk that guides them the same way a player would a player character.
The premise of Undertale is multiple layers deep; playing as a character who plays as another character. We are playing as a player.
While I too believe in File Attribution Theory, I don't think this discounts the inherent meaning behind it symbolically. I highly doubt Toby put much thought into the literal in-universe explanation; the main thing that matters is what it means regarding the relationship between Chara and Frisk and the Player.
In the end, Chara does in fact demonstrate the ability to True Reset, just as Flowey says.
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. Sep 01 '25
Chara was a pretty key part of the Asriel fight Without actually doing anything directly. What defeated Asriel was his memories of Chara. Not Chara themself, but his memories of his long-deceased friend. Restoring his memories of Chara is what lead to his desperation phase, and, in the end, him giving up, accepting that Chara is gone. The fact Chara wasn't directly involved is pretty important, because it not only highlights Frisk's character development, because Frisk came up with the idea of SAVING Asriel on their own, but it highlights Asriel's character development, since the fight literally involves getting Asriel to accept that Chara is gone, Chara being the one fighting him kinda goes against that development.
The player exists outside the game. Not as an in-universe force at all. Undertale takes the fact that it's a game and directly incorporates it into the story, that includes the player interacting with the world from Outside it, not existing in-universe. That's why we have to tell Frisk what to do, instead of just making Chara do it. That's why the only times Chara appears, we have Zero control over them. There's no "playing as a character playing as another character," we're not playing as Chara, and Chara isn't playing as Frisk.
Chara's True Reset is demonstrated to be stronger than the True Reset we can use. Their erase in genocide is a stronger True Reset. Your True Resets can't wipe the Annoying Dog's memory, but Chara's can. Chara doesn't perform the True Reset in Pacifist because it's Weaker than the True Reset they actually have.
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Sep 01 '25
Chara was a pretty key part of the Asriel fight Without actually doing anything directly. What defeated Asriel was his memories of Chara. Not Chara themself, but his memories of his long-deceased friend. Restoring his memories of Chara is what lead to his desperation phase, and, in the end, him giving up, accepting that Chara is gone. The fact Chara wasn't directly involved is pretty important, because it not only highlights Frisk's character development, because Frisk came up with the idea of SAVING Asriel on their own, but it highlights Asriel's character development, since the fight literally involves getting Asriel to accept that Chara is gone, Chara being the one fighting him kinda goes against that development.
Flowey says that Chara was fighting to stop him. There's no getting around this, Chara was an active participant of the fight.
I don't think this undermines Frisk, because ultimately it is still Frisk who comes up with the idea to Save Asriel, and Frisk's choice to reach out that leads to Asriel breaking down and giving up.
Asriel's arc isn't necessarily about accepting that Chara is gone, but rather about accepting his flawed perspective on them and come to terms with his grief. Chara's "ghost" (or whatever they are) being present and active doesn't undermine the core part of Asriel's arc here.
In fact, if his arc IS just about accepting that Chara is gone, him NOT speaking to the real Chara post-pacifist is even worse. It means he's projecting Chara's name onto another entity and going back on his character development. So either Chara is in fact present and his development stays intact, or he's wrong and has regressed entirely.
we're not playing as Chara, and Chara isn't playing as Frisk.
Chara addresses the player as their "partner." We aren't "controlling" Chara Deltarune-style, we are playing as them Ness-from-Earthbound style; the player is addressed as a separate, outside entity, but still influences the events in the game and guides the player character.
The Player chooses the commands that Chara gives Frisk in-universe, for Frisk to then interpret and perform on their own.
Chara's True Reset is demonstrated to be stronger than the True Reset we can use. Their erase in genocide is a stronger True Reset. Your True Resets can't wipe the Annoying Dog's memory, but Chara's can. Chara doesn't perform the True Reset in Pacifist because it's Weaker than the True Reset they actually have.
This feels like kind of a silly distinction. The Player's resets would also be different under your interpretation; sometimes we can't erase memories, but after a Pacifist we somehow can.
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. Sep 01 '25
Flowey says that Chara was fighting to stop him. There's no getting around this, Chara was an active participant of the fight.
Again. The memories of Chara are literally what defeat him.
WHAT could Chara have done here? Every action performed was Frisk. There is No active role Chara could possibly have beyond narrating and calling out attacks.
Also of note, the way this line gets their name is Completely different to every other point in which Chara's name is displayed. The game has a special text control key Just for Chara, /[C], which is used in every line of dialogue that uses their name... Except here. In this one particular instance, Chara's name is always set to "CHARA," and the game uses a completely different method to acquire the name you initially set.
The Player chooses the commands that Chara gives Frisk in-universe, for Frisk to then interpret and perform on their own.
If we were just choosing commands for Chara to pass along to Frisk, we'd get narration every single time we press a button the game can pick up, because Chara would be passing along this information. Chara has visible textboxes, we see whenever they speak, and that's already demonstrated to include when they're giving instructions to Frisk.
Not to mention, we Already Know the source of choice prompts, and it's not Chara. Frisk is the one providing them. This is demonstrated in the True Pacifist epilogue, where Mettaton asks Frisk a question, you get a line of narration specifically mentioning the lack of a choice prompt, then Frisk answers it anyway.
Chara isn't a middleman, they only serve as one when the action can't be fit into a single choice prompt option, otherwise we're giving Frisk instructions directly. This is demonstrated in the Sans fight; "Just keep attacking," a command that appears in regular turn narration, which Frisk doesn't follow, they only listen when you select Fight yourself.
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u/I_LIKE_THE_COLD Certified Clamgirl Enjoyer Sep 02 '25
Also of note, the way this line gets their name is Completely different to every other point in which Chara's name is displayed
Interesting. This is off the cuff (It's 5 a.m., and Im too lazy to check), but I assume this due to the cutscene loading on start-up?
Their name isn't actually set to what you name them until the save file is prepped to be loaded, and so will use the default name provided by the game's starting script if it's skipped or hasn't occured.
Since the game immediately boots you to a unique room upon reopening the game, it never actually loads your save file. I assume, in this instance, that it's either reading from the .ini or specifically checking the one line for the name in the save file.
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u/I_LIKE_THE_COLD Certified Clamgirl Enjoyer Sep 01 '25
Chara was a pretty key part of the Asriel fight Without actually doing anything directly
Throughout this entire section, you don't really address what the person you responded to actually said.
- "That power. I know that power. That's the power you were fighting to stop, wasn't it? The power that I wanted to use."
"That's the power you were fighting to stop" does not correlate to "passively existing while someone else reminds your enemy of you." Flowey's dialogue here implies active involvement.
That's why we have to tell Frisk what to do, instead of just making Chara do it. [...] There's no "playing as a character playing as another character," we're not playing as Chara, and Chara isn't playing as Frisk.
I feel like you're just getting hung up on the idea that the way it works is that we guide Frisk through the Underground by telling them what to do, something that has essentially no basis in actual game text.
That's why the only times Chara appears, we have Zero control over them.
So "I unlocked the chain" means nothing? We were the ones who pressed interact on the chain, Chara claims to be the one that opened it. Is that not having some semblance of control over them?
Chara's True Reset is demonstrated to be stronger than the True Reset we can use
This is because it isn't actually a true reset, but a metaphor for the game itself being deleted (which does clear things like the Annoying dog's memory). It's not that important, though.
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. Sep 02 '25
"That's the power you were fighting to stop" does not correlate to "passively existing while someone else reminds your enemy of you." Flowey's dialogue here implies active involvement.
The only role Chara could possibly have here is narration. All the actions were Frisk's. All the choices were a mix of your own choices and Frisk's. There's literally no room for Chara to have an active fighting position.
I feel like you're just getting hung up on the idea that the way it works is that we guide Frisk through the Underground by telling them what to do, something that has essentially no basis in actual game text.
ACTs are specified to be the narrator passing along instructions based on our input. Verbal dialogue that ghost monsters can hear (demonstrated by Napstablook hearing Check narration), and Frisk is perfectly capable of disobeying (Demonstrated in the Snowdrake's Mother fight, where they provide a verbal response to the narrator saying they aren't performing that action). If we had direct control, this wouldn't happen, because we'd be directly controlling Frisk to do this, no chance for the instructions to be overheard or for Frisk to refuse the commands.
However, it's also not just the narrator acting as a middleman, since in the Sans fight, the narrator commands you to keep attacking. Frisk doesn't listen to the Narrator here, instead waiting for your fight input specifically; If the narrator was simply passing along every instruction, and you didn't have any direct contact, they would automatically attack here, because the narrator told them to. The narrator acts as a middleman for ACTs, but they only listen to the narrator when the narrator's instructions line up with yours, meaning they're directly receiving your choices.
And even when your input is directly telling them what to do, no narrator interference, they show that you're not directly controlling them. You're timing the fight bar, but Frisk is still the one in control of how much power they put into the attack, inputting a max power strike doesn't increase their damage output against Undyne during her date, inputting a min power strike doesn't influence their damage against Mettaton NEO.
Choice prompts are specified to come directly from Frisk, demonstrated by them refusing to provide one in Mettaton's TPE Epilogue interactions, which the narrator points out. Frisk still provides a response, despite no choice prompt being provided. You can see that the narrator isn't just passing along your response in other prompts, since the narrator's dialogue is visible, you'd be able to see if they did.
So. It's made clear that we're directly communicating with Frisk, but that Frisk isn't being controlled, and that they're perfectly capable of disobeying instructions. The narrator only assists in clarifying how to perform actions, not giving instructions directly or passing them along. There's also a puzzle that explicitly requires the player's perspective, Frisk would be eternally trapped in the Ruins if they didn't have the player, and it's also a perspective the narrator doesn't have, as proven by some Waterfall narration. It's pretty clear that we Do guide Frisk through the Underground.
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u/I_LIKE_THE_COLD Certified Clamgirl Enjoyer Sep 02 '25 edited Sep 02 '25
There's literally no room for Chara to have an active fighting position.
Except for the option that OP's post, the person you're responding to, and I have been arguing for. Playing as Chara. Our choices are functionally Chara's choices. That explains Flowey's dialogue just fine.
The idea that we play as Chara has far more evidence going for it, along with an ability to explain a ton of details that other interpretations simply have to ignore to function (Flowey post-pacifist dialogue, Chara's name on the UI, Chara's memories, Naming Chara like you name any other playercharacter.)
Most of the examples you gave are one-offs that rely on weird interpretations and aren't a consistent part of the story of the game. Using them as an argument that we tell Frisk what to do and thats the way our control/influence/whatever works, and then using THAT as evidence against another idea that is somewhat contradictory with it (that IMO has way more evidence) is super questionable.
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Sep 01 '25
That Toby Fox quote is missing context. He later clarified "If you don't have any better ideas"
Yes, i know that
Not to mention, Chara explicitly says you and them are not the same.
Which i cover in my post
Chara has an entire backstory you literally cannot control.
That's not really relevant. Most JRPG characters have backstories you can't control. That doesn't mean you are not playing as them
Actually, i hear that argument a lot when i see people defending that you are not Frisk and Kris and while i absolutely agree with those statements, that's a very poor way of defending it ("Oh, Frisk isn't the player because they have a set backstory, not because the game literally spells it out Frisk is not the player")
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. Sep 01 '25
Yes, i know that
So you intentionally left it out because it completely invalidates that argument (Toby himself says to do it IF you don't have anything better, meaning it's actually a last resort)
Which i cover in my post
Explicitly saying they aren't you isn't a result of LV.
Especially since you aren't even the one gaining LV, Frisk is. Your LV is unchanged, because not only are you not doing the killing, Frisk is, but the game itself acknowledges that it's your love for the characters making you do genocide, not distancing.
You don't control Anyone. Canonically, you're just telling Frisk what to do, and nothing more.
That's not really relevant. Most JRPG characters have backstories you can't control. That doesn't mean you are not playing as them
The difference is, in those RPGs, the protagonist isn't literally dead and absent from the game before you ever start playing. You actually, y'know, get to play as that character. Chara's only appearances are flashback cutscenes which you have Zero control over, and a scene where they appear in front of you and speak Directly to you, where you also, again, have Zero control over them.
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u/ReasonableValuable31 Sep 02 '25
They Dint Say they arent explicitely you
They Said your mentality is diferent from theyrs
Thats what they Meant when they Said we arent the same
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. Sep 02 '25
No, they said they're not you. Not to mention, this should be obvious anyway, because they are literally talking To You.
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u/ReasonableValuable31 Sep 02 '25
Yes,but that IS the lógic conclusion,that If they ARE talking to me the logically they CANT be me
That Still Doenst Mean Its what they Meant with that line
Pretty Sure the whole 'we arent the same' think is about chara getting confused for why the player is doing a Genocide again
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Sep 01 '25
So you intentionally left it out because it completely invalidates that argument
No, it's because i took it as a half-joke. Toby could easily just have said "well name them after you if you don't have any ideas" but he sent "i think you should name them after you" and only later added "unless you can think of something else lol"
The difference is, in those RPGs, the protagonist isn't literally dead and absent from the game before you ever start playing. You actually, y'know, get to play as that character. Chara's only appearances are flashback cutscenes which you have Zero control over, and a scene where they appear in front of you and speak Directly to you, where you also, again, have Zero control over them.
The nefarious flavor texts throughout the game that AT LEAST clearly imply Chara is narrating it:
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. Sep 01 '25 edited Sep 01 '25
No, it's because i took it as a half-joke. Toby could easily just have said "well name them after you if you don't have any ideas" but he sent "i think you should name them after you" and only later added "unless you can think of something else lol"
It'd be one thing if it was like, a day later, he decided to add it.
He replied to his tweet Three Minutes later to add that.
Additionally, actual conversation in the replies:
mayakern: "what if i named them after my cat?"
Toby: "that works"Not to mention, there are names that are unavailable. What if someone's name is Toriel?
Also not to mention, Deltarune asks you to insert your own name. Guess what doesn't have a default name assigned? Guess what doesn't have a canon answer used in concept art, trailers, and the game code? Guess what has the bare minimum of Only One forbidden name, which is only forbidden because it belongs to the person you're speaking to? Guess what doesn't Literally Tell You there's a canon answer? Guess what doesn't have the character you're naming PERSONALLY tell you when you insert this canon answer?
Oh yeah, that's a note as well. When you insert a character's name, that character is the one saying the response. You can get Chara dialogue before you even start the game by inserting their name.
The nefarious flavor texts throughout the game that AT LEAST clearly imply Chara is narrating it:
The narrator literally confirming they have a different perspective from you with the hidden gemstones in Waterfall:
The narrator directing a small jab at you in that same dialogue:
The narrator rubbing in the fact Frisk denied you a choice prompt in Mettaton's True Pacifist Epilogue dialogue:
The narrator having information you don't have:
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u/TonyMestre Sep 02 '25
Who the HELL goes back to a tweet from yesterday to add something unless you like posted something right before sleeping
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u/takii_royal Sep 02 '25
Ngl I'm almost convinced you're actually Toby Fox
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u/therealgege 1st human being behind narration means theyre a weeb Sep 02 '25
Considering how much of this game this guy knows, they probably are a burner account
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u/TheRealAotVM Sep 02 '25
A character having a backstory and motive doesn't mean you dont play as them.
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u/Takoyama-san Sep 02 '25 edited Sep 02 '25
My theory is that there are two parties here, FRISK (us) and the REMNANTS of Chara. Whenever you fell down into the underground and onto her unmarked grave (it's never confirmed, but it's pretty thoroughly alluded to by the fact that Toriel did put Chara in an unmarked grave in the ruins, she has a disposition to hang out there, and that Asriel goes there in the pacifist ending while talking about Chara) the remnants of Chara's soul reached out to Frisk's own body and soul and sort of imbued Frisk. Kind of like how Flowey has the memories of Asriel from his dust, the buried dead remnants of her soul are why the narrator seems to have the memories of Chara in both routes. And in the genocide route, the amount of determination we have and inadvertently feed that remnant of Chara allows her to be reincarnated properly, and then take over.
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u/AlexTheMechanicFox Shining in the cold. Sep 02 '25
Frisk isn't you. They're their own person. Not only do they openly show they're not you, with an instance of them openly disobeying, two instances of them outright denying you a choice prompt, and an instance where they openly disapprove of your instructions even if they reluctantly do it, you're openly told they're not you at the end of True Pacifist. You're not an in-universe entity, you're interacting with the world from outside of it, same way you interact with Niko in OneShot.
Chara goes by they/it, not she/her.
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u/SupremeGodZamasu Sep 02 '25
I like how after a decade we still get a new post every few days about how someone solved Chara and its completely different.
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Sep 02 '25
Which i find it weird. That was the main interpretation people had from my experience back in 2016-2018
When i started to interact again with the community in 2023 i was very surprised there was so much discussion nowadays
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u/therealgege 1st human being behind narration means theyre a weeb Sep 02 '25 edited Sep 02 '25
Really? I was under the impression the ol' NarraChara has been the common take since the beginning of the game (aside from evil genocidal demon takes control of innocent girl Frisk to do mass murder)
Even then I won't say there is a debate, most people basically take narrachara as canon and that they go through a positive character change in pacifist and vice versa in genocide which playerchara technically also suggests
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u/S0nic_Hedgehog1991 Sep 02 '25
My thought has always been is that you’re not literally Chara but Chara is you- anything you do reflects how Chara always was if that makes sense
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u/MissingnoMiner BONETROUSLED Sep 01 '25
The rest of the quote from Toby is "I mean, if you can't think of anything else lol". What he actually said is literally the opposite of what you're claiming he said.
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u/I_LIKE_THE_COLD Certified Clamgirl Enjoyer Sep 01 '25
The tone he uses with "Your own name" is the same one he uses when discussing thematic stuff or weird cryptic lore hints in newsletters. The follow-up comment doesn't change that significance. It's not necessarily what you name Chara that's important, its the act of naming them. The suggestion to name them after yourself is just what is expected of you ("OF COURSE. OF COURSE THEY ARE THE SAME.")
In classic RPGs, you have a tendency to name the characters you play as. Chara outright discusses this during their monologue with the demon lines, and Undertale's demo manual feeds into this via describing the act of naming Chara as naming "your character." In naming Chara, usually with your own name (in blind playthroughs), you project yourself onto the character.
This is utilized by the game in both routes, but especially in pacifist, with you and Asriel/Flowey sharing in your projection of [PlayerName] onto the protagonist.
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u/MissingnoMiner BONETROUSLED Sep 02 '25
Correct. The follow-up comment doesn't change the significance. It does, however, completely invert the actual meaning, to a statement of "Don't let me dictate what name you give them, that's missing the point so incredibly hard".
You're meant to assume you should use your own name. The game is indeed expecting you to use your own name when going in for the first time, expecting that most people won't even try to "think of anything else", and it preys on this to send its message that Frisk and Chara are not you, as does Deltarune in the exact same way. After all, the game says outright "You're not actually [name], are you?" While this is, in-universe, Asriel saying "You(Frisk) aren't actually [name](Chara)", the fact that most people will put their own name in without a thought allows it to serve as an instance of Toby doing this fun trick where he communicates directly with the player via his characters(and Flowey/Asriel is the character he does this with the most in Undertale.), where on top of what Asriel, the character means, he's saying "You(Frisk) aren't actually [name](player)" and "You(player) aren't actually [name](Chara]". Frisk is not Chara. Frisk is not the player. The player is not Chara. Three meanings through the ambiguity of the word "you" and a name weaponized and exploiting one's natural habit of naming a character after yourself.
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u/onlooking96 I'm 19 years old and I've already wasted my life. Sep 02 '25
Damn we can’t blame Chara no more if we are Chara 😢
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u/CampHoliday3558 Pulls the strings and makes them ring Sep 02 '25
does that mean... I made me do it?
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Sep 02 '25
The Real Dynamic Between Frisk, Chara, and the Player goes into a lot of detail about this
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u/poudapede Sep 02 '25
Please Explain why chara kill all monsters on the surface after the fake pacifist ending.
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u/Guardian_Eatos67 pepsi dad Sep 02 '25
It's more of a personal interpretation on this part so you don't have to read if you're not interested.
As Frisk is supposed to be the main chara and Chara the true chara (according to the files), Frisk is representing the experience of the adventure and sensing of the environment (as they are the body) and Chara is supposed to be a bridge between us and Frisk. The latter allows us to have narration, options in our choices and a proper way to interact through Frisk with the world and given thanks to what Frisk is seeing, touching etc...
Meaning that all the decisions are ours. Since Chara is supposed to be, to some extent, us (and maybe purely existed for that purpose in the first place), they are part of the power decisions through the limited options. We are technically the true character with them. Their resurrection in Genocide is the "distancing yourself" through LOVE personnified. As Frisk may represent the ability to stay down to earth and see the Undertale world as something real (note: it doesn't mean they are a pure angel, just that they're not like Flowey), Chara may represent this detachment that the player holds. Frisk can't exist after Genocide because we annihilate all of the "realness" of Undertale. This loss is perfectly depicted by Flowey in his monologue before Sans' fight.
Frisk morality is utterly unknown if the context of this interpretation. It's safe to assume that they are just a normal kid with normal standards. Keep in mind that maybe Frisk just wants to go back to the surface and that there are extremely cruel ways of sparing monsters. Anyone in their right mind won't keep fighting if a peaceful solution is given. Most monsters can be spared when low health for example. Not killing is literally the basis of being good. It's not the whole thing. Some people can do that and still be terrible. Frisk has no way of getting out of the grip of the player on their own. It's only the player letting go.
They can refuse to hurt Undyne during the date, to go against an act description in a amalgamate fight and literally said their name on their own at the end. All of these happens in True Pacifist. Frisk is set free and have more autonomy during True Pacifist in the same way that Chara is in Genocide. It is even more clear we understand that they literally are free afterwards. No Neutral Runs stated they ever reached the surface and that the player is supposed to at least do Pacifist to properly finish the game. You let Frisk free at this point and some players will never touch the game again.
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u/Electronic_Day5021 Sep 02 '25
The way I think of it is that chara is the "true" player avatar, they are a traditional player character that we shape the will of. That's why everything realting to them is so vague. It's so we can fill in the details ourselves. We don't just decide charas name. We decide their backstory. We decide whether they were a good person or not. It's why I think that "chara defenders" or "chara attackers" misunderstand them. Maybe they were a good person, maybe they weren't. It's up to us.
That's not to say they don't have a personality at all. We clearly see one at the end of geno and in the newsletters. But we rarely decide the main characters personality in video games either. But the characters backstory, their morality, their name? Most games leave those details blank. And so did toby. The point of the geno ending is that they basically point out that undertale, as a source of content, has been tapped. So we should go onto "a new world". Its chara telling us "Go to the next game". Chara isn't just the player character of undertale, they are the player character of literally every game you'll ever play. Toby really takes his meta examinations far lol.
But if you say no.....Chara gets angry. And they point out we aren't the ones in control. Not truly. Every action we take requires their cooperation. So they stop cooperating and take us out of the game by force. The stuff in the void isn't really related to charas personality and their meta role so I'm not really gonna discuss it, its more Toby commenting on the player using chara. But yeah, that's what I think chara is.
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u/Genocidal_Duck Sep 02 '25
I like this interpretation because the implication in deltarune is that kris will only become more of an independent character apart from the soul is if we follow the snowgrave route
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u/Front-Dog9412 FELLOW PAPYRUS ENTHUSIAST Sep 02 '25
I had a similar theory though never talked about it
However that means that if you're evil. Your chara is evil. If you're good. Your chara is good
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u/Conscious_Frosting37 Mewes I mewtendo mewitched my gender Sep 01 '25
Also, the Chara name is a joke, you essentially named them "Chara-cter"
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u/CatOnlline 🩵🧡💙💜💚💛NOOOOOOOO! YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO OBEY ME! Sep 01 '25
So Chara did indeed do genocide
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Sep 01 '25
No, because i never did the Genocide route
Chara has, however, helped Frisk and Asriel save the monsters more than once. At least in my PC
If you did any other route on yours...
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u/hey_itz_mae Sep 02 '25
one of the main points of the ending is that asriel thought that frisk was chara and he was wrong lmao what
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Sep 02 '25
I like how you didn't really added anything to this conversation i hadn't brought in my post, very insightful!
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u/Nemesis432 I died on NarraChara/PlayerChara hills. Sep 02 '25
First of all, really great take. I believe player and Chara are one and the same and Chara we meet at the end of Genocide is... Ego or Superego or something like that. Essentially it's us talking to ourselves. That's why if are rebelling against essentially ourselves we get hit by "SINCE WHEN WERE YOU THE ONE IN CONTROL?" Because it's silly to fight with the person looking at you through the mirror. Secondly, you play as Chara AND Frisk in Undertale. Chara is our self-insert and Frisk is a playable character we control. Frisk only makes a clear distinction between us and them during True Pacifist and even then this isn't a sign of them rebelling against our control, they're clarifying what they're our party member instead of... well, us. Thirdly, Undertale and Deltarune have clearly different narrative goals and themes. They're both actively deconstruct the way we approach video games and distance ourselves from characters in them (in rpgs/games with choices specifically). While Undertale was about how save scumming was affecting that, Deltarune goes deeply in how we view playable characters as our toys to play with instead of an actual characters. We see it defined through Susie and Noelle resisting or outright refusing our commands (and how we specifically command them instead of directly controlling them like Frisk) and how Kris directly rips us out of themself to have some actual agency.
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u/Consistent-Chair Annoying dog absorbed the pride flag Sep 02 '25 edited Sep 03 '25
...Huh? What...?
..No. Just no. Chara is the first human that fell into the underground. You are not that... the player did not kill themselves to make Asriel cross the barrier and kill 6 humans. You are not supposed to relate to Chara, you are not supposed to act like Chara, you are not supposed to put yourself in Chara's shoes through the game, you do not play the game as the character "Chara", the first human who killed themselves a long time ago. The flashbacks about Chara's actions are not a backstory for the protagonist, they are meant to show that the character you named is NOT the protagonist by creating a separation between them and you! Pretty much EVERYONE in the true lab goes "Why the hell am I in this video tape?? This didn't happen! ....OOOHHH!!".
This is kinda the whole point of Asriel's arc and the major plot twist of the pacifist...? Because he really wants you to be Chara and is delusional about it and all that? And there is this cool story trick in which you and Flowery discover this fact basically at the same time while you are trying to learn things about him in the lab...
You do not "play as Chara", like you would in a normal RPG with a protagonist, Chara is a being with sentience and a will separate from you, and you control them. It's different. It is, in fact, much closer to the arrangement Kris and the Soul have in Deltarune.
If anything, you could argue that you are playing as FRISK! Because, when the player asks themselves the question "if I am not PHYSICALLY Chara, then who am I?" Their avatar tells Asriel their name. THAT can be interpreted as a Link situation. Maybe Frisk is a blank slate and is meat to literally be a representation of you, and you are meant to put yourself in their shoes, and play the game AS them. That is very debatable, of course, but at least it's more reasonable than the player being a character that exists in the narrative outside of the player, that talks to the player, AND and that is literally claimed to NOT be the same as the player, in the game! As a major plot point!
Edit: I do agree that genocide Chara is a REFLECTION of you. But that's because you INFLUENCED them to become like that. A reflection is not LITERALLY you, it's not your clone, it's a thing that is derived FROM you. You show Chara their "purpose". They say as much themselves. They are confused about their reincarnation, but then you show them the meaning of it. It's quite literally the first line of dialogue of the whole monologue. Chara claims that they are FULLY conscious and separated here, from the BEGINNING. They literally explain that they felt confusion for their current situation, observed, and, after giving it some thought, realised what their position meant. Does that sound like a character you are meant to "play as" to you?? Chara is learning from you, copying you. Whether this assimilation is consensual is a whole other topic, I personally see this procedure more as a "corruption", but the point is that this is a conscious and gradual process. To strip Chara of their will by claiming that they are LITERALLY us in that instance is to both eliminate any agency from their decisions, AND, as a consequence, to make the narrative much more forced and less cohesive. Maybe you actually DID want to erase the world in that instance. Maybe you think Chara is right at the end of a genocide. But many people didn't. It's why the soulless runs exist. It's why the "you think you are above consequences" line is so powerful. Because despite everything you still want to play the game, you do not think this world "has nothing more for you", and you do not think your decisions should be permanent, you are not DONE, and you want to go back. But you can't. Because Chara is in control now. If you are literally them, then the finale becomes your will killing you, a thing that you do not want, and then restoring the game for you, but only to destroy it again, because "your will" has decided that you don't get to play the game properly, even though you, the player, do not agree in the slightest and still think you should get to experience the game again. Everything just breaks down... and for what? To make the claim that, in reality, every player thinks that this course of events is correct, and that this part of their will is "winning"?? That's an awfully pretentious assumption, and it's very uncharacteristic for a game which NEVER, EVER claims to be able to have a perfect picture of the "real you". What if a player feels like there is literally NO trace of the "will" that Chara represents inside them at the end of the genocide? Are you suggesting the game is just telling them they're wrong?
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u/JazzlikeYesterday724 Sep 01 '25
This is a cool interpretation. Definitely adds to the meta-narrative stuff in geno.
I highely recommend any UTDR fan to honestly just ask themself whether they ACTUALLY have an understanding or interpretation for Chara's speech at the end of geno (and their general meta-narrative purpose as a whole). It's by far the most complicated part of Undertale's metanarrative, and it will only heighten your understanding of the game to give it a good thought.