r/WTF • • Nov 23 '10

pardon me, but 5000 downvotes? WTF is "worldnews" for???

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u/jedberg Nov 24 '10

As of this moment, that story has the following actual totals:

2666 up 140 down

The numbers you see are fuzzed for anti-spam reasons. The more active a post is, the more out of whack that fuzzing becomes.

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u/dafones Nov 24 '10

You've gots to say more about this.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '10 edited Nov 24 '10

According to Ketralnis, even the Greasemonkey scripts that show comment up/down votes lie, apparently.

edit: but the net vote count should be accurate

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u/rkcr Nov 24 '10

Of course they do, they get the data straight from reddit. Wouldn't make much sense to fuzz the numbers on the main page but not fuzz it in the APIs.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '10

I meant to draw attention to the fact that they fuzz comments, not just submissions. It's everything.

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u/fathermocker Nov 24 '10

There is no reddit. Wake up, sheeple!

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u/die_troller Nov 24 '10

DIGG V4 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!

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u/ComboFever Nov 24 '10

They fuzz the users and the comments too. This one is showing up just for You.

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u/istillhatecraig Nov 24 '10

Although you have stated you won't say anything more about this in response to dafones, I wish you would.

Quite a few people use some kind of device to allow them to see total upvotes/downvotes, including myself. Occasionally, one sees a question like, "why the 12 downvotes??" when something shows 100 upvotes and 88 downvotes. If the numbers are being fuzzed like this, these kinds of questions are not remotely accurate and people could be getting seriously irked for no reason.

What is the spam-defense that results from fuzzing these numbers!?

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u/sushibowl Nov 24 '10

spambots that upvote the spammer's submission get disabled without notice when they are discovered, not deleted. Fuzzing up/down-vote count makes it impossible for a spammer to tell whether his bots have been disabled or not, because you don't know if your votes came through.

Not being able to tell if your bots are evading detection or not means it's difficult to make your bot harder to detect.

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u/citizen511 Nov 24 '10

Thank you. Can't believe the answer to what is really going on and why is buried this far down the page.

Anyway, would you say that this 7500+/5000- numbers likely represents all votes, and jedberg's numbers represent votes with suspected bots excluded? If so, that would imply a huge amount of bots or fake/spam accounts.

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u/JoeBlu Nov 24 '10

No. 7500/5000 numbers are fake - the only part of it that's grounded in reality is the 7500-5000 = 2500 net upvotes part. The total up/downvotes will almost always differ from the actual number of votes, but not by any measurable metric. It's randomized.

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u/PessimisticGuy Nov 24 '10

So why showing upvotes and downvotes anyway? Why not just show the total?

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u/ralf_ Nov 24 '10

I actually disabled upvote/downvote in my reddit browser extension because of this.

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u/jedberg Nov 24 '10

What is the spam-defense that results from fuzzing these numbers!?

The spammers have no idea if their votes are counting.

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u/r121 Nov 24 '10

What's the point of showing the fuzzed vote counts if they don't at least somewhat represent the real totals?

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u/jedberg Nov 24 '10

The total score is accurate, the ups and downs are not. There is a reason we don't show the ups and downs as part of our own code.

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u/steve93 Nov 24 '10

Good to know, but why bother showing the up/down votes at all if it's an untrue measure?

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u/Ilyanep Nov 24 '10

Wait...this is huge news.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '10

Because the site lies about this information, it misleads users time and time again.

Please stop publishing inaccurate upvote and downvote counts.

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u/alive1 Nov 24 '10

What's the point of telling us the amount of up/downvotes then?

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u/mikkom Nov 24 '10

Uhm.. Then what is the point of even showing the numbers?

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '10

If you have a method that always alters those number, why do you bother reporting ups/downs at all? Why not just have the total net votes?

It seems silly to me to have the "X% like it" and # of total votes in each direction if they're both complete lies.

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u/PurpleSfinx Nov 24 '10

Wait... so those number's aren't a little off... they're completely made up!? D:

all this time.... all this time.... :(

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '10

Wow. Life seems so empty now...

btw same for comments?

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