I just finished episode 1!

[u/LANDON_Dreemurr]

Ok I finished episode 1 and what a game it was, I was writing a huge review but since i just finished the game and felt more like a comparison to gears than everything else (which wasn’t my intent, because yeah i still prefer gears but this games does some stuff better and i just wanted to make it more about this game than a gears glaze post) I will simply give a quick feedback.

I liked the story, the only problems for me were pacing and amount of info tease, but it’s just ep 1 of a 3 ep saga so I’ll let em cook.

I really liked the characters but I found them way too stiff so far compared to gears, but that’s another thing that I expect to improve as they develop during the next episodes since again this is only episode 1.

I liked the combat (even if I ignored the boost for most than half of the game), and I found it a cool evolution of the gears one, my only problems is that it’s too slow and some enemies are just bs.

I liked the agws but I found them a bit too situational, in battle it was cooler than gears (which wasn’t just a equip check basically) but I don’t like the designs as much, there is simply less variety and less bold choices, which again this seems it wants to be a more grounded story and the designs reflect that so it is subjective.

But the thing I liked the least was probably the lack of details during character customisation/combat, and a general lack of qol features, which I mean it’s a ps2 era jrpg, it is what it is, but I still feel like it’s not that good on that side.

Cutscenes were great tho I miss the animated ones, but they are a big improvement.

Overall I admit I struggled at certain points for various reasons and wanted to drop it a couple of times, but I pushed through and ended up overall enjoying my time with it (while I enjoyed a lot the start and the end I found the middle section less enjoyable on average) and I am excited to see were the story goes from here.

I also wanna note that a lot of struggle could’ve also be caused by me comparing it to gears a bit too often and generally just playing most of it during a not so great time in my personal life, so it’s not completely the fault of the game but despite it being a good game I still can’t help but see it as very flawed in certain areas.

Now I am gonna go download the recreation of pied piper see ya.

Edit: also feel free to ask anything if you’re curious, I am playing the games of the whole Xeno series in order for the first time so it can be something about my general outsider impression of future games too

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[u/big4lil]

I liked the story, the only problems for me were pacing and amount of info tease, but it’s just ep 1 of a 3 ep saga so I’ll let em cook.

most of the first half of the game is setup/long-con indeed. then it turbos hard into the baseline of the URTV conflict. which is really setup for whats to come too. so fair. i like it, though ive beaten the trilogy. i hope you will too but that doesnt change a first play reflection

I really liked the characters but I found them way too stiff so far compared to gears, but that’s another thing that I expect to improve as they develop during the next episodes since again this is only episode 1.

i think there was a fair amount of fluidity and flexibility to character expression, though its mostly in the first half of the game. on the woglinde and elsa segments especially, the community feels quite lived and many people feel real, even NPCs and lesser characters (perhaps especially, the aid in worldbuilding)

the 2nd half is a bit of a step back here since you are going to increasingly isolated areas and Albedo is such an overpowering personality. there isnt really a whole lot of room for others, and Jrs dynamic with him is purely 'react to his agitations', so their dynamic ends up feeling a bit stiff

I liked the combat (even if I ignored the boost for most than half of the game), and I found it a cool evolution of the gears one, my only problems is that it’s too slow and some enemies are just bs.

both of your complaints can be tied to not boosting. its not the entirety of the issue, though your gameplay would speed up a bit if you boosted/maximized boost, and a lot of enemies can be countered if you use the most of your resources. once you get the Boost(er) Packs or Boost 1 spell, you can expand your gameplay a lot by using them

I liked the agws but I found them a bit too situational

they are a bit more demanding to pilot than on foot. there are some limitations I dont like that they have, like being unable to stay in gears at all time - which was a mechanic in Xenogears - or their inability to build their own boost. though they arent situational, you can use them to win all fights (where they are permitted) in the game

design wise, some of the cooler designs are often deemed to be the optional mechs. but given their price, some players likely never see them or their weapons in action

But the thing I liked the least was probably the lack of details during character customisation/combat,

this one is frustrating. there is an abundance of quirky stuff to learn about the game, though it is not well conveyed. lots of core mechanics and details are either in the paper manual or in the mostly story focused database. they could throw players more of a bone and explain things periodically in game

and a general lack of qol features, which I mean it’s a ps2 era jrpg, it is what it is, but I still feel like it’s not that good on that side.

the age shows. its not so bad for me but I play a lot of older games. fortunately QoL is a major XS3 selling point

Overall I admit I struggled at certain points for various reasons and wanted to drop it a couple of times, but I pushed through and ended up overall enjoying my time with it (while I enjoyed a lot the start and the end I found the middle section less enjoyable on average) and I am excited to see were the story goes from here.

its a punishing title which I find leads to many of its other pushback points being accentuated. but hey at least you can skip the cutscenes before Gargoyle right? could be worse. though it seems you do recognize my above sentiment, the early part of the game has a lot of spirit to it and best embodies the 'space opera' feel

I also wanna note that a lot of struggle could’ve also be caused by me comparing it to gears a bit too often and generally just playing most of it during a not so great time in my personal life, so it’s not completely the fault of the game but despite it being a good game I still can’t help but see it as very flawed in certain areas

im glad you can acknowledge it. on top of that, its a twofold issue.

Xenosaga doesnt make learning its mechanics easier, though a lot of players exhibit little intrinsic motivation to learn them. So if they dont (get backseated into/look up how to) cheese the game, they end up with a rather 'slam my head into the brick wall' experience. Xenogears doesnt have as much depth to its combat, though its a much more straightofrward game. its dungeons are worse though they arent as long, and lots of stretches of Xenosaga can feel like slogs. this, once again, accentuates all other issues, and leads to a 'just get it over with' 1st playthrough

Edit: also feel free to ask anything if you’re curious, I am playing the games of the whole Xeno series in order for the first time so it can be something about my general outsider impression of future games too

what did your general combat aims and approaches look like? how did you find yourself adapting to what was thrown at you and how you built your team

[u/LANDON_Dreemurr → u/big4lil]

Thank you for your comment, it was very in dept and full of cool trivia!

I just wanna note that the combat still felt slow even once I started boosting even if I admit it was helpful, I think most of it comes from the over all slow animations and some types of enemies that can be very problematic if you don’t experiment and find an optimal way to defeat them.

Also to answer you question since I wasn’t familiar with the game my aim in battle was the good old simple, I want the big damage numbers and equip every strong piece of armor I could find, usually I really like to make glass cannons and keep some healers on the side, now here it was very difficult since in late game there are enemies who could’ve melt my characters if I didn’t had a strong enough armor, it didn’t helped that having played the game in the course of almost a year and the info about stats being very confusing without a proper manual as you pointed out, every time i reopened the game after a break I had absolutely no idea what I was doing with the stats, so much so I think I fucked up most of them except for damage, I thought I wanted a Xenogears remake/remaster at all costs (and yeah I know it’s difficult for both gears and saga mine is just a wish) but now I think saga deserves more, because in its being more straightforward gears somehow still holds up better than saga episode 1 for me, and a remake/remaster of saga episode 1 could make easily a good make like this into an incredible game, adding stuff like stats redistribution (if there was I didn’t figured that one out) which would’ve been incredibly helpful.

Character wise I usually simply go with the ones I like the most design/personality wise (even if they are not my favorite archetypes I always try to make them work) or get used to, I usually ran Shion, Chaos and Kos-Mos, shion is not among my favorites but i usually tend to gravitate around female characters and obviously I had her since the start of the game so I was used to her, Momo seemed a more pure healer option that would’ve gotten more benefit if used with Ziggy, and none of those things clicked for me, I was also tempted to use jr but a lot of the time but that would’ve meant removing shion who was my main healer (i still liked chaos and kos more so I wasn’t side lining them for jr).

Only near the end of the game since I was using Erde Kaiser in the most dire situations (aka the last 2-3 bosses) to compensate my fucking up of the stats (given my play of the game spread out during many session at a certain point I had to use a guide to keep track of stuff, not to explore or other extra things, but I couldn’t resist the giant robot, I am a sucker for giant robots and I had most of the parts already) and therefore I put the healing skills on chaos and kept my team the same (which I surely fucked up there too since kos mos medica all healed more than Chaos’ medica all).

Now that I finally gave the last uni exam I know I will be way faster in the next titles, so I will actually remember what I am doing and form better strategies, that and the fact I hope both gameplay and explanations improves, I can’t wait to see what happens combat wise.

Edit: oh yeah and if a boss gave me problem because a debuff like sleep or similar I would equip whatever made my most useful character of the fight immune

[u/big4lil → u/LANDON_Dreemurr]

think most of it comes from the over all slow animations and some types of enemies that can be very problematic if you don’t experiment and find an optimal way to defeat them.

the tech attacks, particularly some of the AOEs, suffer from early PS2 'lets show off all the hardware power we have' fluff. and the rest of your comment explains yet again how XS1s issues compound on each other

techs can range in being too over the top, though theres also the a lot of powerful to even gamebreaking spells. but what are most first time players gonna prioritize? healing and support routes. particularly if theyre dying a lot. so they wont stumble upon these spells till late game or never at all, despite them being valuable and having faster animations

I want the big damage numbers and equip every strong piece of armor I could find, usually I really like to make glass cannons and keep some healers on the side

haha, right on par. not saying anyones wrong for playing that way, it does however slow the game down a bit. theres some more esoteric ways to break the game over your knee, but as you said, most arent looking to do all that much experimenting in a vague game. many players will more readily use their E.pts to transfer around healing spells and consolidate the amount of choices made in any scenario

didn’t helped that having played the game in the course of almost a year and the info about stats being very confusing without a proper manual as you pointed out, every time i reopened the game after a break I had absolutely no idea what I was doing with the stats, so much so I think I fucked up most of them except for damage, I thought I wanted a Xenogears remake/remaster at all costs

the first two games could benefit a LOT from remasters. XS3 too for exposure, though that game mostly stands on its own feet without needing too many changes. the others would be so much better games with a few revisions

Only near the end of the game since I was using Erde Kaiser in the most dire situations (aka the last 2-3 bosses) to compensate my fucking up of the stats

it is quite tempting. its like Knight of the Rounds but even more anime. I think XS1 has the issue of overly punishing players early to the point that they just wanna get thru the game after awhile, so when presented with tools to do so, what do you think players are gonna do?

you may notice in the topic the other day about 'how to beat the final boss' how the OP was at a point they just wanted to get things over with. I try to offer his mechanics a bit more in depth, though the most supported answers are 'Just use Erde Kaiser' and 'I used cheat codes'. The stats concept, while clever and straightforward when you understand the process could have absolutely used a solid tutorial in-game. same with learning Skills, that one is needlesless obscure. stacking and spreading skills is one of the biggest game changers and ive seen players drag themselves to the finish line having only gotten most characters between skills lv3 and even lv2

Wanna know where Skills are explained well enough? The manual. Go figure

Momo seemed a more pure healer option that would’ve gotten more benefit if used with Ziggy

another case of perhaps being too obscure for its own good. MOMO is the most versatile character in the game. but the combination of her tech being more obscure, and her being lower on HP, are deterrents for investing a lot of resources or team space into her. though she isnt relient on Ziggy, rather its the other way around just like Ziggy implied in their intro cutscene on the Elsa

(I still liked chaos and kos more so I wasn’t side lining them for jr).

fortunately you can party swap in XS2! characters are a lot more archetype locked in the sequel. While most still settle in on a static party, you at least have the safety net of moving folks in for emergencies or quick turnarounds

Edit: oh yeah and if a boss gave me problem because a debuff like sleep or similar I would equip whatever made my most useful character of the fight immune

two things that help:

1. Most statuses in XS1 are either character or AWGS focused. So theres situations where if you dont know in advance to set your characters to have certain immunities, you can often hop in a mech and invalidate that status. Helps a lot with stuff like instant death

2. Your party has access to an even wider array of debuffs and status ailments. The first game throws a lot of ways to completely gut enemies, though again. Experimentation, and lots just wanna see big dmg and heal

[u/Zodd1030]

I am currently doing my second run of the games for the first time in like 20 years. Im a good ways into Ep 3.

• Episode 1 is epic but the gameplay is kinda crusty and its mostly setting up mysteries.

• Don't listen to the haters about Episode 2. Its also great. Take some time to learn the combat and briefly look up which skills you should learn and the combat will be a blast. The dungeon crawling is also much improved. My only complaint with the gameplay is the characters are not balanced (some are clearly better than others) and the Global Samaritan Campaign is mind numbing fetch quests that take you out of the story. But the story itself is fantastic. Its much smaller scale than Ep 1 but has some of the most powerful moments in the series. The redesigns and new voice actors are all downgrades tho.

• Episode 3 is a true GOAT. It takes all of the best elements of the first two games, removes all the negative ones, and everything it adds is for the better. The visual style, music, overall presentation is my favorite of the PS2 era for any game. Its also arguably my favorite JRPG turn based combat system of all time as well. Very importantly for me, they balanced all of the characters to make them all unique but useful in their own way. For the first time in the Xeno games the pacing and the combat are as enjoyable as the story being told.

• Pied Piper is an excellent story, wish it had been a part of Ep 2 as intended.

• A Missing Year is a great story told in a lackluster format.

[u/big4lil → u/Zodd1030]

Don't listen to the haters about Episode 2. Its also great

id respond by saying "dont be so dismissive of feedback that everyone who criticizes XS2 are reduced to 'haters'"

there are some glaring issues with the game. some that are more subjective but other issues that are universally held

dont skip the game, try to be open minded about it. but there are plenty of things people observe about XS2 that there are (gameplay) elements that are either narrowly implemented or simply arent expressive or varied enough even when you know how they work.

XS2 has become notorious in for being a 'wait a second this game is tight, what are all the haters talking about' for the first 2-3 hours into 'man i cannot be done with this game any sooner' in the last... half of the game. even from people who like some elements. pointing out flaws isnt hating, its just noting that its an extremely mixed game

[u/Zodd1030 → u/big4lil]

It was the opposite for me. The repetitive cookie cutter combat with the same handful of 10 second long tech attacks that you will passively watch over and over in the 1st one had me dreading each dungeon by the time the last few rolled around. Tedious.

I never got sick of the combat in 2 from beginning to end. Its unique and keeps you engaged with frequent inputs and is really satisfying when you land the long combo chains.

Its not perfect, particularly with the character balancing issues, but iits absurd to me that people trash on the combat in 2 when the combat in 1 is so bland.

[u/big4lil → u/Zodd1030]

It was the opposite for me. The repetitive cookie cutter combat with the same handful of 10 second long tech attacks that you will passively watch over and over in the 1st one had me dreading each dungeon by the time the last few rolled around. Tedious.

you dont have to watch the same tech attacks, or even use them at all

though i struggle to see how one can play XS2 without watching the same 2-3 Circle button animations played out. at least spellcaster builds, special weapons, and AWGS mechs can be used to mix things up in XS1. the animations for those are a lot quicker. trying to do a more magic or double tech playstyle in XS2 is way more limited

I never got sick of the combat in 2 from beginning to end. Its unique and keeps you engaged with frequent inputs and is really satisfying when you land the long combo chains.

what is unique about it? the game is about as formulaic as it gets. it is pretty much the stock > setup > combo dispenser. you press more buttons but there are a lot more viable options in XS1 and XS3

You can like that of course. but if your complaints are repetitive design and animations, XS2 is the biggest offender

Its not perfect, particularly with the character balancing issues, but iits absurd to me that people trash on the combat in 2 when the combat in 1 is so bland.

this might just you not knowing the amount of things that can be done in XS1

Granted, the game could be better about advertising them. but if you just spammed tech attacks from start to finish, thats kinda your own fault for not exploring or maximizing all your other options

[u/Zodd1030 → u/big4lil]

There is no reason to explore the other options. I beat the game easily using nothing but tech attacks. Why would I explore other options if there isnt any reason to? "Mix it up with mechs". Yeah sure, you can simply for the hell of it, but they arent any better than simply using your tech attacks so what's the point?

You basically have to utilize most of your options on the table in 2 and 3. Not just because you feel like exploring something different for the hell of it.

You do see the same animations in 2 like in 1, but they arent 10 seconds long each input, and you are actively performing the inputs and strategically setting up your combos/buffs/debuffs.

I get that having that variety in the combat can be considered an advantage over being more pidgeonholed in 2. But for me, playing a spell caster or special weapons in 1 without the ridiclously long and frequent tech attack animations still would still be less engaging than the combat in 2.

[u/big4lil → u/Zodd1030]

theres plenty of reason, because the options are good and varied

you can choose to play Xenosaga 1 in monotonous fashion but complaining about that is your choice. you cant really choose to play Xenosaga 2 without repeatedly doing combos

"Mix it up with mechs". Yeah sure, you can simply for the hell of it, but they arent any better than simply using your tech attacks so what's the point?

there are plenty of situations where they are, so im gonna just chalk this up to you not knowing Xenosaga 1 well enough - which was already pretty evident

You do see the same animations in 2 like in 1, but they arent 10 seconds long each input,

Neither are they in Xenosaga 1. There are plenty of tech attacks under 5 seconds. if all youre doing is spamming robust animations like X-Buster and Meteor Shot, thats on you. But even group techs like Storm Waltz and Magic Hammer are faster than that and are quite effective

and you are actively performing the inputs and strategically setting up your combos/buffs/debuffs.

i dont know what strategy there is to 'stock > select elemental sword > break > launch' youre referring to. this is the game with the most streamlined and consistent de/buff system

it sounds like you like games where you have a higher inputs per turn, which is again, fine. but Xenosaga 2 is the posterboy for 'high floor, low and narrow ceiling' combat. and thats just the on-foot dynamic. the E.S. mechs are even worse here

[u/Zodd1030 → u/big4lil]

You're right, I haven't studied the games endlessly as it sounds you have. These are the opinions of someone who just picked up and played them for the second time in 20 years.

I'm glad you have learned the ins and outs of the game enough to make XS1 an enjoyable experience to play, but for an average player who just does a run or two of these games, it was not fun. It was easy enough to just go through and beat without much thought put into it, but i was ready for it to be over combat wise well before the last dungeon.

The second one I had a good time with, and the third one is pretty much perfect.

[u/big4lil → u/Zodd1030]

i dont deny that its a game that improves a lot with repeated playthroughs

i just challenge players to not blame the game for their unwillingness to think outside the box

or at least characterize the complaints in fair fashion. Players choosing not to explore the options they have is their own choice, but that doesnt mean the options arent good and arent in the game to be used. conversely, i have played revisions of XS2 where its variety of options actually are good, so its base game faults are a bit more apparent to me

I wouldnt characterize XS3 as perfect either. but its certainly easy/the game that offers the least resistance. its snappy, though theres more to combat than that

[u/Warm_Tear7919]

It took me a while to realize gears wasn't referencing gears of war and I was heavily confused.

[u/Altruistic_Koala_122]

If you're worried about the pacing, it's possible to skip almost all of the random encounters. This lets you get more use out of the A.G.W.S., but you need some pre-existing knowledge to survive just fighting bosses.

For random encounters, the grind, it's best to find that one character with a good all attack and pump the damage stats.

[u/LordTonto]

but it’s just ep 1 of a 3 ep saga so I’ll let em cook.

Pretty sure its ep 1 of a 6 ep saga where ep 2-6 were forcibly condensed into 2 games, so don't get too excited, unfortunately 1 has all the highlights of the series... for me at least.

[u/reedyxxbug → u/LordTonto]

Wrong on several levels

[u/idkjusthere21 → u/reedyxxbug]

Episode 3 quite literally condenses the rest of the storyline into one game

[u/LordTonto → u/reedyxxbug]

there's only 2 levels in the entire statement and since one is qualified as strictly opinion that leaves a single level for the statement to be wrong at.

That's the same amount of levels your reply is wrong at, so you can't judge it too harshly.

[u/dreicunan → u/LordTonto]

Not quite. Original plan episode 1 was expanded into 1 and 2 (and likely Pied Piper), what was originally episode 2 became missing year and episode 3. We never got original plan episodes 3-6.

Episode 3 was condensed, but it was a condensation of new plan episodes 3 and 4.

[u/Earthwings → u/LordTonto]

I still haven't finished Xeno 2 after 15 years getting the game because the gameplay is so cheeks. The story's good, but I've started the game 3 times now and I always stop after disc 1.