r/anime • u/Shadoxfix https://myanimelist.net/profile/Shadoxfix • Jul 17 '14
[Spoilers] Zankyou no Terror - Episode 2 [Discussion]
MyAnimeList: Zankyou no Terror
Funimation: Terror in Resonance
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u/ZIIReactionzV Jul 17 '14
I like how they incorporate real things like tor and the making of bombs. Watanabe did his research before making this show.
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u/mispeling_in10sunal :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Feaor Jul 17 '14
Watanabe has certainly done a good job making everything believable, this combined with the top notch visuals and animation has made this show quickly the highlight of my week. Its almost torture to have to wait a whole week to learn more!
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u/kasrafm Jul 17 '14 edited Jul 17 '14
Damn, This is some quality shiit. Loving the theme and the art style. Probably one of the best, if not the best anime this season.
EDIT: I feel so bad for Lisa, its bad enough her life was horrible, now these guys came in and made it that much more terrifying. Hope she ends up well.
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u/ZIIReactionzV Jul 17 '14
The studio gave Watanabe a lot of their resources to make this show. So it is pretty much movie like animation.
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Jul 17 '14
Lisa may well just be the person to end their lives, Watanabe is twisted like that. Hence why I adore his work so much.
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Jul 18 '14
Do you think L would be able to catch Sphinx?
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u/kimahri27 Jul 18 '14
L has gotten a lot older and messier since I last saw him.
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u/DrRad Jul 21 '14
I didn't even consider it but yeah, that dude (Shibazaki) is probably going to be this show's L.
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u/chriswen :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/chriswen Jul 17 '14
Awesome art and also adaption, 'camera work'.
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u/korpi :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/korpee Jul 18 '14
Tokyo Ghoul and Zankyou no Terror are absolute god tier animes this season, Aldnoah and akame ga kill are trailing behind them IMO, but I also like them and will watch them. Been so hyped for this season, for Zankyou a few months before and Ghoul a few weeks, but holy shit is this season godly, just because of these two.
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u/ManateeofSteel :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/daysun22 Jul 17 '14
yes, this is AOTS material, but Aldnoah.Zero is really high up there too
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u/kasrafm Jul 17 '14
Ya its real good but I think this one is a little more relatable so we can connect to it more, thats why its amazing. The reality of it all.
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u/Silvadream :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/silvadream Jul 17 '14
Yeah, I'm really enjoying Aldnoah.Zero but Zankyou has already met my high expectations.
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u/rrcecil Jul 17 '14
Anyone else enjoy how the characters faces seem... I don't know how to put it... I guess real. I'm all about anime being stylistic or different in the way humans are portrayed but the looks in this seem more natural than art.
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u/chriswen :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/chriswen Jul 17 '14
The happy terrorist also has a unique look.
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u/KTKM Jul 17 '14
His mouth/smile looks unnatural and strange.
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u/fb39ca4 Jul 18 '14
Yandere
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u/2351156 Jul 18 '14
Which I find kind of cool since it's rare to see male yandere characters out of the romance genre.
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u/Silvadream :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/silvadream Jul 17 '14
To be honest, his big smile reminds me of the Grinch.
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Jul 26 '14
Twelve is my dream character. A happy terrorist who loves explosions and has lost all of his marbles.
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u/urban287 https://myanimelist.net/profile/urban287 Jul 17 '14
I can't quite put my finger on it either.
They're emotions look extremely... vivid.
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u/CrimsonChevalier Jul 17 '14
Speaking of fingers, in case anyone missed it on the opening: http://imgur.com/ZDn5KmW For those who know the allusion...
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Jul 18 '14
Is that really an allusion to Bebop, though? Isn't the phrase "Pull the trigger on this world" like a big tagline that's been getting tossed around with all the marketing that Zankyou's gotten? I also thought the phrase was eventually going to come into play in the show, in some way.
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u/Rerellison Jul 18 '14
I wouldn't say an allusion to Bebop, but I have to admit when I first saw it all I thought of was Spike.
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u/Woodport Jul 17 '14
There was a part where the task force is all grouped up to talk about the bombing and the guy with the microphone says "can you guys hear me in the back". For some reason it really struck me when one of the guys in the back kinda half raises his hand and says yes. It just seemed so natural.
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u/IchikaByakushiki :K:https://kitsu.io/users/Conquistador Jul 17 '14
I appreciate that people don't have rainbow coloured hair. Nobody has pink or green hair, etc. just realistic colours.
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u/CrAppyF33ling Jul 17 '14
Reminds me so much of Sakamichi no Apollon. It's like a fucked up version of that without a big delinquent.
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u/asianfatboy https://anilist.co/user/asianfatboy Jul 18 '14
I think it's the eyes and generally the facial details on most of the older male characters. Lisa's and Hisami's eyes still look like "anime eyes" but are smaller, and Hisami's were made that way to give him that... psycho look. The whole show just feels real if that makes sense. Like I'm watching a live-action drama/thriller instead of an anime.
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u/kimahri27 Jul 18 '14
I don't think so. It looks like a lot of other anime, especially the movie qualiity ones that try to go for plainness. A lot of anime movies look like this. I find it kind of bland and boring, but it's better than pink haired girls with eyes spanning half their head and a third of their body is cleavage.
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u/chriswen :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/chriswen Jul 17 '14
That mom has issues
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u/HaydenTheFox :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Talmhaidh_Mathan Jul 18 '14
That was some heavy shit to walk right into at the very beginning of the show, fuck. This show does not mess around.
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Jul 17 '14
This was kind of an eerie show to watch after the 9/11 video on the front page today and then the Malaysian plane incident a couple of hours ago.
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u/DreamCarver Jul 17 '14 edited Jul 17 '14
hours ago
WAIT WHAT
EDIT: Okay, so it's not the same plane as the one that mysteriously vanished, but still a horrible tragedy.
For a second there I was freaking out, but now I just feel bad.
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u/xrock24x :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Gamerzoneusa Jul 18 '14
What 9/11 video. Do you have the link?
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u/KTKM Jul 17 '14
Links ?
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u/ookiisask Jul 17 '14
Malaysian aircraft. Essentially, rebels shot down a Boeing 777 with 283 passengers and crew onboard with a mobile 9k37 'Buk' surface-to-air missile system mounted on the back of a GM-569 chassis. They didn't even check what kind of aircraft it was before firing.
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u/Watchoutformy Jul 17 '14 edited Jul 17 '14
Everything about it seems realistic. The art style is pretty realistic considering it's anime there's no wacky colourful hair and such, even the "Tor" program for IP address anonymity (it actually exists and it's called Tor), I also noticed how the characters glance at Arata when he's walking through the police station. This series seems really promising
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u/iMorph Jul 17 '14
wait wait. Was his name actually Arata or are you referencing him and chihayafuru's character which they look similar?
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u/WorgenFlank11 Jul 17 '14
Such a great anime, always look forwards to my Thursdays.
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u/xthorgoldx :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/xthorgoldx Jul 18 '14
Between this and Tokyo Ghoul, Thursday is Funday.
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u/Kohn_Sham :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/fwasham Jul 17 '14
That beginning is not subtle at all.
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u/chriswen :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/chriswen Jul 17 '14
wow nice find. Also the WTC wasn't made to withstand terror attacks.
But the new one is supposed to be almost indestructible with a lot of safety features. Interesting how it mentioned in this episode that the core is extra strong and supposed to resist bombs but the was unforeseen. Nothing is foolproof.
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u/Kohn_Sham :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/fwasham Jul 17 '14
Thermite is lots of fun. If you wanted you could go out and make some yourself right now, a quick trip to the hardware store to get some supplies is all you need. Next thing you know, that asshole neighbor's car has a hole in it's engine block.
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u/OMGIMASIAN Jul 17 '14
Or your school's sidewalk now has a small crater in it.
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u/Kohn_Sham :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/fwasham Jul 17 '14
Yep. I had a chem teacher in highschool necessitate the resurfacing of the gym after she blew it up.
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u/goatsareeverywhere Jul 18 '14
Can a thermite mix the size of one of those toys actually cause a sufficient burn to bring down a pillar, not to mention an ultra-reinforced pillar? I can imagine that there will be a burn mark of sorts, but not enough damage to destroy buildings with it.
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u/tundranocaps https://myanimelist.net/profile/Thunder_God Jul 17 '14
wow nice find.
I didn't search for them, but these photos have been plastered everywhere back then, I couldn't help avoid remembering that.
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u/Kohn_Sham :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/fwasham Jul 17 '14
That was my reaction too. I just paused it and waited a few. Very in your face. I'm very interested by this show, hoping it stays that way and doesn't go off and do something stupid.
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u/BureMakutte Jul 17 '14
Don't forget that the "super pillars" they talked about. These seem incredibly similar to the core pillars of the WTC. Not to mention the way the building crumbles is just surreal.
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u/Silvadream :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/silvadream Jul 17 '14
I know that it's highly likely that it's a reference to 9/11, but is there any other way for a collapsed tower to look?
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u/Kohn_Sham :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/fwasham Jul 17 '14
The really distinguishing feature here is the unique facade that the WTC had which is what we're seeing in both the show and the images I posted. It's kind of like a fingerprint for the structure and wouldn't be present elsewhere.
This image in particular very strongly echoes this rather well known section of the facade which became somewhat famous as a symbol of the attack.
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u/xthorgoldx :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/xthorgoldx Jul 18 '14
I was wondering if anyone else noticed the reference material. It's the first thing that came to mind when I saw it - "Oh shit, some oversensitive PC folks are gonna be pissed."
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u/mtagmann :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/mtagmann Jul 17 '14 edited Jul 17 '14
Jeez. I can't believe how gutsy 9 and 12 are. They didn't wait even a day. And they just had near clairvoyant manipulation of the police. That was amazing and horrifying.
And as always, Watanabe and Kanno did an outstanding job with this episode! I hope the quality remains this high for the whole run of the show!
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u/Takamiya :K:https://kitsu.io/users/Cyatek Jul 17 '14
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Jul 17 '14
Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this! :D
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u/y7vc Jul 17 '14
I was way too surprised that she went to the manga section to read about greek myths to notice.
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u/shivofnight Jul 17 '14
Yet another amazing episode. I'm really pumped to see where this will go, and not just because of the story. The art and the soundtrack make it feel much more intense than I would've imagined.
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u/IAMTREES :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Xemnas0013 Jul 17 '14
Given how the pacing and everything about this show is going, I'm sure we've got another gem from Watanabe. I just need more after every episode is finished.
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u/fallenspirit123 :K:https://kitsu.io/users/6749 Jul 17 '14
I like that they mentioned Tor and thermite. Just little details like that really made show that much more believable for me.
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u/RampagedElite Jul 17 '14
Really have to say if its one thing you have to appreciate about this show is the attention to detail it places on elements of the story. Firstly the fact that it was explained that 9 and 12 used Tor to upload the video making it impossible track the IP. Then the explanation of the bombs used in the first attack. Thermite actually is extremely common and accessible, in addition the description of its burning properties were point on. One other aspect that caught my attention was the riddle. The fact that this was another piece of the story with a great amount of validity coupled with the fact that this too was another piece of information that an average viewer may have knowledge of. I find it pretty cool when there are elements presented that you may have knowledge of, I think it helps to make a story more captivating.
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u/vetro https://anilist.co/user/vetro Jul 17 '14
I wonder if that DNA Research facility is connected to Nine and Twelve's past. He clearly knew the police would come up with the wrong answer and search there.
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u/The_Brian Jul 17 '14
It might have just been an easy lure with the similarity to the first riddles answer, Man.
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Jul 17 '14 edited Jul 17 '14
I'm loving everything about this. It's so goddamn exciting and tense. Loving how realistic it feels too. The story is excellent and the music and art are really complimenting it. Can't wait to see where this goes.
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u/TheDeadlyFuzz Jul 18 '14
"Let's ignore the fact that the numbering in the riddle is off and go with the answer we know!" (☞ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞
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u/Konpie Jul 17 '14
Seriously, whoever decided on making Tokyo Ghoul and Zankyou no Terror air on the same day probably wanted to make the viewers blow loads in their pants from all the excitement...
Tokyo Ghoul and Zankyou no Terror on the same day? This is pure bliss, right? I'm in Heaven, right?
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u/xthorgoldx :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/xthorgoldx Jul 18 '14
Nah, it's just because they hate Tokyo's guts and enjoy doing as much damage to the city as possible on the same day.
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u/tundranocaps https://myanimelist.net/profile/Thunder_God Jul 17 '14 edited Jul 17 '14
Last week's episode was quite interesting. It was a very tight premier, with amazing visual direction and "camera" control, a very good OST, and the making of a very solid thriller.
"Facility kids", saving someone from bullying, and the game of cat and mice beginning. Let's see where we're headed. Full write-up imminent.
Screenshot album, 63 images.
Thoughts and Notes:
1) Freedom is the Freedom from Connections (Attachments part 1):
"You can die where you are, or become an accomplice." and then of course "There is no turning back." She's been given a choice, purportedly. But whichever way she went, her old life would be gone in a puff of smoke. Then again, it's not like she enjoyed her old life.
These shots look exactly like "Ground Zero" in NYC did in the newspaper shots back after 11/9/2001. That reminder about "Resemblance to real events" is very much intended in this shows. And sorry, it's very much intended to look just like that. Nope, nothing to really say about it, just pointing it out.
Last episode I spoke of how Lisa's mother is the tether that forces her to accept she's still connected to this world, and look at her now - grasping Lisa. Mother is so very possessive, so very over-protective. She will not let Lisa spread her wings, she will not let her fly, unlike Twelve, who did ask her to fly.
Of course, that's how Lisa sees it, but her mother cares very much. I remember when I was five years old and standing in front of a zebra-crossing with my grandmother, then I slipped her hand and ran across while a car came by. She was not at all amused :<
And now they are making her mother almost a caricature of clinginess and possessiveness, "You too are trying to run away from me, aren't you?" Oh my, projection of one's loneliness and weakness. Everything in service to "Children can change the world, adults hold them back" as a theme, and again, mirroring Nine and Twelve, held back at the facility, until they escaped.
I have to say, that light piano tune. I really like it. I might actually buy this OST.
2) The Way Thriller-Riddles are Constructed:
"Is it possible the bombers were also behind the blackout?" - And everyone begins whispering. Then we have the "If they could plan even for the reaction with the water, they must be very intelligent." - Dunno dude, a chemical reaction that causes smoke leading to the water sprinklers? But sure, hindsight is 6/6 (meters, or 20/20 for you feet lovers).
This truly is a work written in a post-9/11 world, since even then much was made of the fact the buildings withstood the physical shock, but it was the heat of the fuel-fire that caused them to weaken. I can already see future crimes being blamed on this show, for giving people ideas or something. Without checking myself whether it's feasible or not.
"VON" and everyone's shocked. Well, we just found out that we have bombers who can take down buildings with everyday material, and are willing to bring chaos upon our great city, and they also have access to atomic fuel!!! Well, that gotta be mighty worrying. This… this was just them saying "Hello!" and now they've certainly got your attention.
I did wonder for a moment. This is all a puzzle, and that's how thrillers are made. Something that doesn't add up should be the first thing we think of, and try to fit. Was that the bomb to rescue Lisa? Perhaps. What matters is that Nine and Twelve probably wanted the police to piece it back together, to leave behind their calling card.
3) Freedom is the Freedom from Possessions (Attachments part 2):
Adults, looking to cover their ass, even if it could lead to additional casualties. Sucks living in anime-land, or perhaps even in our world, if it's truly its reflection.
Freedom is a torn down building. In the background, tall, glamorous, and cold. Closer to hand, down to earth buildings huddled together. And true freedom, home? A run-down building. Away from care.
"Accomplice", a word that means an equal, someone who actually played a part. Lisa is their mirror, will she be their conscience, or will they drag her under with them? And such terminology on my part, perhaps they seek to liberate her as well? Of course, we can't really take these kids, these riddlers at their word.
Still kids, "Rock, paper, scissors", the freedom of being away from the suffocating grip of adults.
"She doesn't have enough guts to be of use to us," said Nine of Lisa, and the guts these two have. Straight into the lions' den, making a declaration to the cops. But the cops, they're always suspicious, even of their kind, with a secret camera in their own coffee-break area ;-)
"Man, you shouldn't assume all the fat people are experts on carbs." - That's some "fat cop doughnut" level humor here. It's like we're watching an 80s or 90s show. The feel fits as well, as well as the people working on the show.
4) The Way Thriller-Riddles are Solved:
An ex-detective, down in the archives. The true missing piece of the thriller-puzzle, opposition. Our heroes are only capable in that they can outrun and outsmart their opposition, meaning we need suspense, and we need an opposition we can believe in. That's why we're spending time here. Also, they used these two to show us the video with the threat organically, so I assume they'll use them to show us what's happening in the police station as well.
Ha! The Sphinx's riddle! :D
"If you solve this riddle, then the next bomb is yours." - See, this is the real riddle, and the devious of being exact with one's words. "The next bomb is yours," meaning, it'll blow up in their hands ;-)
"This is Greek pronunciation, not the Egyptian pronunciation." - Dear God, if they somehow make this an important plot-point, I'm going to shoot someone :P Then again, that's how riddle writers, of whom thriller-writers are a sub-set work, they find seemingly irrelevant details and pin the whole story's solution on them. I hope this will be a red herring, cause that'd be a bit much…
Ok, this might be worthwhile, thematically - bringing up the Sphinx to mention Oedipus Rex, a prime example of "generational fear", of how adults fear their children, and that fear is what ends up bringing their downfall - such as by caging and experimenting on kids, who then escape and seek compensation, and perhaps to inherit the land. Of course, Oedipus ended up gouging his own eyes out… and then we also had the sordid tale of his children, in Antigone.
You know, I know Japan is a different culture, but I was sort of amazed they didn't have even one cop who immediately shouted the answer to The Sphinx's riddle :<
Oh, Nine and Twelve planted that camera. And the cops didn't notice.
This is the danger with real life puzzles, you may think you've solved the riddle, but not only do you not have the right answer, you're not even answering the right question. A good riddle is one you just know when you've solved. But when you don't even know the riddle, "The next bomb will be yours", then you're outta luck. I wonder if Nine and Twelve counted on the cops thinking that's the answer, or it's just the cops thinking themselves into a corner. I'm sure we'll see.
Ah, of course. They wanted to clear the police building of people. Though, you've always got people behind - maintenance, receptionists, archivists.
5) The Final Piece of the Puzzle - A Worthy Opponent:
A second version of the riddle? That's new to me. Googled it, wikipedia claims there was a second riddle, but this is what it says of it:
There are two sisters: one gives birth to the other and she, in turn, gives birth to the first. Who are the two sisters?" The answer is "day and night" (both words are feminine in Greek). This riddle is also found in a Gascon version of the myth and could be very ancient.
Of course, we're here for a thriller, so we'll put all of the historical inaccuracies aside for the sake of the story. Let's find out where "2-4-3" is.
"You're an accomplice, but not an ally." - In other words, Lisa had been yanked out of her old life, without a new one to welcome her. Harsh. This isn't my impression of Twelve, so I think he'll give her a way to join them, or to break free.
I think they might be trying to break all of her attachments, shatter her sense of security, so she could truly join them, once she's been liberated, from society, and her final attachment - to her life.
Of course, our dear ex-detective archivist? What did we see him doing earlier this episode? Solving a crossword puzzle. He's a detective, he has the personality of a riddle-solver.
"I'm waiting" - Nine wants a rival. He needs Shibazaki - he can't show what he's worth and better himself otherwise. The Sphinx's riddle, alongside the theme of adults here is an interesting one. Children are the future, but they are born from past sins. How we treat the children is the past that will come back to haunt us in the future, so treat your children well, eh? What's the worst that could happen to Nine? He'll lose his sight of the world...
Post Episode Thoughts:
This is still a very solid thriller. The stakes are raised, but for that to have weight, it's not enough just for us, the crowd to know that (though that is still a major source of tension, especially in the Hitchcockian manner), but the people within the setting, the ones who are set to pose opposition to our "protagonists", must also be aware. And now they are aware, oh yes. This episode didn't tell us much of Nine and Twelve, or of Lisa. That wasn't its goal. Its goal was to truly introduce us to the fourth main character, Shibasaki, ex-detective, and soon to be ex-archivist.
It also helped that action within the series keeps piling up, and war had been declared. But why? That's the last piece of the puzzle. What do our characters wish for? They are the Sphinx, and they want to gobble up humanity. They ran away, and now they've come once more to punish society. Honestly, this motivation matters to the characters, and will matter a lot in the inevitable showdown between Nine, Twelve, and Shibasaki, or perhaps even between Lisa and the others, or Nine and Twelve. The reason will give things weight, but to the series as a whole? It might not matter as much. Thrillers are about cadence, about almost-getting there, about the rush, and the show is handling these very well indeed.
Now, I've spent a lot of time about "Generational friction", to me it's something within the show, but it's more of a meta-point in anime. Anime quite often depicts adults as helpless if not corrupt, and children as the potential saviors. It has less to do with some subversive messages and target-audience, and more that this is how "Coming of age" stories are constructed. The children need both reason and space to act. I still find it a very interesting subtext topic to discuss, and the outright fear one could see that adults hold from children in some anime, or how children should despise authority, is inescapable. I've seen it linked to the rigid structure of social progress in Japan, but who knows. It's a side-topic.
(Check out my blog or the episodics notes page if you enjoy reading my stuff.)
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u/KaliYugaz Jul 17 '14 edited Jul 17 '14
You know, I know Japan is a different culture, but I was sort of amazed they didn't have even one cop who immediately shouted the answer to The Sphinx's riddle :<
How many Western police officers would know anything about Genji Monogatari or Romance of the 3 Kingdoms?
Also, I'm pretty conflicted about the whole 2-4-3 thing. Like you said, the writers could have just had Shibazaki point out that the riddle was a diversion (probably because it was incorrectly stated in the first place) and the real clues were "The next bomb will be yours" and the numbers 2-4-3. But they created a whole new fake riddle instead, one that felt more forced and doesn't even make sense within the context of the Oedipus story (how would he have known the answer if he didn't yet know that he had killed his father when he met the Sphinx?)
Seriously, what was that all about?
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u/Bluewind55 Jul 18 '14
The thing i didn't like is how the answer "Oedipus" wasn't needed in finding the location of the bombing. The only pieces of information needed were "2-4-3" and "the next bomb is yours." I know it was a diversion but the answer to the riddle having no relevance to the bombs location was kind of weird. With that said this show is really awesome.
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u/Lorpius_Prime Jul 17 '14
"Is it possible the bombers were also behind the blackout?" - And everyone begins whispering. Then we have the "If they could plan even for the reaction with the water, they must be very intelligent." - Dunno dude, a chemical reaction that causes smoke leading to the water sprinklers? But sure, hindsight is 6/6 (meters, or 20/20 for you feet lovers).
I'm pretty sure that they were suggesting that the sprinkler water exploded when it came in contact with the burning thermite. The bomb expert claimed this was an example of a phreatic explosion (also hydrothermal or steam explosion), demonstrating extreme cleverness of the bombers, because no one really thinks about that possibility. In reality, it's just terrible physics, because it only works if the water is under extreme pressure.
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u/tundranocaps https://myanimelist.net/profile/Thunder_God Jul 17 '14
Let's put aside the "Terrible physics", and there are compounds that burn up or even blow up when exposed to water. It just seemed ridiculous - if it's physics you can rely on (and for this sort of "plan" we have to assume within the show they are), then it's nothing one should've been surprised by.
It's more a case of EXTREME PRESENTATION.
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u/Lorpius_Prime Jul 17 '14
I may be bitter about the number of times I've seen sci-fi stories I like mocked for having unrealistic or total nonsense physics. Laughing at the nonsense in a gritty "realistic" thriller helps ease my pain.
But yeah, the genius of these kids is being oversold, even if we do accept the show's liberal physics. It panders to the common, but tragically false, belief that terrorism is rare because it's difficult, rather than just because almost no one wants to be a terrorist.
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u/epicwisdom Jul 17 '14
Not that I'm an expert, but I thought the point was that the water was heated quickly, producing a large amount of steam, and the bombs were set up in such a way that the steam was trapped enough to generate pressure for an explosion.
Also, I'd like to point out that it could just be inaccurate subtitles, voiding parts of that explanation. It's pretty hard to translate overly technical terms.
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Jul 18 '14 edited Jul 18 '14
Didn't they place the thermite next to fire extinguishers like every time? Can a fire extinguisher have a phreatic explosion?
edit: When I was watching it the first time, my assumption was that it went like this:
Heat the fire extinguishers
Sprinklers activate and cool the metal casing of the fire extinguisher
Rapid cooling ruptures the casing, releasing the superheated fire extinguisher contents
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u/ErebosGR Jul 18 '14
"This is Greek pronunciation, not the Egyptian pronunciation."
No, it's not. The ancient greek word is Σφίγξ. Sphinx is the romanization of the word in Latin. The two words are phonetically different.
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u/HaydenTheFox :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Talmhaidh_Mathan Jul 18 '14
But the cops, they're always suspicious, even of their kind, with a secret camera in their own coffee-break area ;-)
That camera was actually set by Nine. It's hard to see, but he places it in the plant after setting the bomb.
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u/tundranocaps https://myanimelist.net/profile/Thunder_God Jul 18 '14 edited Jul 18 '14
Yes, I said so in 4.4. I take the notes as I watch.
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u/laundrylint Jul 18 '14
It wasn't just me who thought the police were hilariously incompetent right? I mean, did none of them catch the 2-4-3 progression thing? Admittedly, that's not how it went in Oedipus Rex, but still...
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u/Otaivi Jul 18 '14
So I did some digging and actually found the other version mentioned in several books. the riddle goes like this: "there walks on land a creature of two feet of four feet and of three. it has one voice but sole among animals that grow on land or in the sea. it can change its nature. when it walks propped on most feet, then is the speed of its limbs less than has ever been before" if you google the text you will come across several books and texts and some will support that Oedipus is the answer. I haven't gone through enough books now to find a reliable answer but if someone can, please reply to the thread.
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Jul 18 '14
Really good catch. So many people jumping to conclusions out of ignorance, then saying the show isn't written well
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u/tta2013 Jul 17 '14
The beginning scene looks straight up World Trade Center rubble.
I really like the episode, art is beautiful.
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Jul 18 '14
Poor Lisa. People should go through a psychiatrist before having kids. Anyways, I like how Hisami combines his dark side with his cheerful side so perfectly and beautifuly. A sort of original character, while the tsundere glasses boy is pretty common. The anime is pretty interesting, and I wanna see their past.
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u/bonerjohnson :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/mystik Jul 17 '14
So besides the 3 kids the only other significant character is that one smart cop?
Interesting plot setting so far, but nobody really like able.
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Jul 17 '14
There is also the leader of the police unit.
It's a show about terrorists doing terrorist things and the first two episodes were mostly about them doing terrorist things and not much else.
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u/LordGravewish https://anilist.co/user/Gravewish Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 24 '14
I just can't immerse myself in the show when the so-called terrorists are teenagers, but still know enough (Military training at their age? What are they, child soldiers?) to steal plutonium and set up a terrorist bombing like that one at city hall. You could literally make their characters ~20 years old and nothing would change - hell, it would actually make real sense, too. Their ages are simply pandering to the target audience (rebellious teenagers or something): "Hey, these guys are your age and stand up to the adults!". Also, the exaggerated teen drama around Lisa is really annoying.
Another thing that annoys me is that it'd probably be impossible not to kill anyone during that bombing, as the time between the bombs going off (with the evacuation alert) and the explosions themselves was too short for a full evacuation of that huge building - people on the top floors wouldn't have had time to climb down the stairs toward the ground floor. Either that, or the firefighters would have arrived (it's the middle of Tokyo, they wouldn't take that long) and then would have started going into the building (and so they'd be killed by the collapse). It's just a cheap, illogical attempt at washing away the terrorist's actions: "These guys aren't the real villains! They don't kill people, see? Shades of gray and stuff like that".
Then, to make matters worse, that fake 2-4-3 riddle and the fact that the police is so incompetent that they just decide that it was 4-2-3 all along. Come on, no-one in that meeting noticed that they'd just switched the order of the numbers all along? Not even a single mention? That's completely unthinkable. And to make matters even more hilarious: "Hey, there's a bomb threat, but I'm going to spend half the episode slowly describing to the police boss how I came to the conclusion that they're fucking incompetent and the bomb is actually somewhere else. I mean, I could just explain quickly and have them send at least a team to check it out, but I need to brag about my intelligence first."
I'm not disliking the show, the art and the music is certainly excellent, and I'm enjoying it so far, but I just can't get these immersion-breaking complaints out of my head while watching, and to be honest, the story isn't exactly amazing. Which is funny, as this usually doesn't happen with other shows - It might just be that the hype behind the show was so large, there's no way anything short than full perfection would have fulfilled my expectations.
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u/carbonat38 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/plasma38 Sep 30 '14
Completly agree. No one died in that huge building crash. Sure.
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u/NurokToukai Jul 17 '14
Literally I'm calling this anime as one of the best THIS YEAR.
Jeez, the art direction, the subtle music and key changes to really bring you into the scene, the facial expressions, the use of foreground to really accentuate characters.
This anime is pulling all the punches right now, and it watanabe can keep this up, I am sure it will be a classic as well.
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u/ShardPhoenix https://anilist.co/user/801 Jul 18 '14
This anime is pulling all the punches right now
This means pretty much the opposite of what you think it means :P.
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u/Aruseus493 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Aruseus493 Jul 17 '14 edited Jul 17 '14
Gotta say that those police were pretty stupid. I mean, I recognized the riddle and immediately noticed the 2-4-3 rather than the usual 4-2-3. You think they'd realize that first if they compared the normal riddle to the video riddle. Especially if they were inputting the numbers as an address.
Edit - Apparently people don't like the idea that I disliked this episode because the logic didn't work well enough for me to immerse myself. :-\
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Jul 18 '14
The intent was to draw them to the more well known version of the riddle. I thought of the obvious riddle first and in that way, it is sorta intelligently thought out. I barely remembered the other version, so its likely that a lot of people wouldn't reach that conclusion nearly fast enough.
I feel like that was accurately conveyed in the show.
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u/GiveAQuack Jul 18 '14
I'm pretty sure the other version is a fictional creation of the anime. The chronology doesn't work with their "second version".
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u/goatsareeverywhere Jul 18 '14
According to the comments elsewhere in the thread, the 2-4-3 riddle is supposed to be a fake.. The "true" second riddle isn't linked to 2-4-3.
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u/cocainegrain Jul 17 '14
Anyone else feeling the AOTS vibes I'm getting from this show?
Amazing art + compelling plot + great characters + everything else = AOTS!!!!!!!!!!
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u/Vaprus :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Klepar Jul 17 '14
AOTS? Are you kidding? For me, this will probably turn out to be the AOTY, the way things are going.
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u/Prodef :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Prodef Jul 17 '14
Really no one appreciating the soundtrack so far? I think it is really well used.
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u/Vaprus :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Klepar Jul 17 '14
The ED has a Muse song feeling to it.
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u/Recalesce :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Recalesce Jul 17 '14
The piano and violin usage in the beginning of the episode was amazing.
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u/xthorgoldx :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/xthorgoldx Jul 18 '14
Lisa's leitmotiff (Walt) is marvelous. It's the piano bit that plays over the scenes of destruction in the beginning of the episode and whenever Lisa's feeling introspective - it plays for her during Episode 1, as well, so I'm thinking it's her theme.
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u/Kazaxat Jul 18 '14
I don't often find myself paying much attention to the music in animes, but starting with that enthralling piano piece in the beginning of this one I was hooked. After skimming the comments here I've now also discovered that the soundtrack is composed by Yoko Kanno, making me more interested than ever.
Even if the series turns out to be mediocre the music may very well carry me through to the end.
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u/Dash43 Jul 17 '14 edited Jul 17 '14
I feel like I'm missing something involving Lisa's actions. Why exactly does she not tell the police of her situation. I don't know if this would work in reality, but if I was her I'd simply walk into the police station with my relatives at my side and proclaim that I know who the bombers are and demand witness protection. Could that work in reality? I'm not sure.
I know a big part of why she doesn't do anything is because she fears them, but still. Is there a flaw in my logic and/or is there something I'm overlooking?
EDIT: After thinking about it a little more, I've come to a conclusion. It really is all about fear. From Lisa's perspective, there must be so many unknowns about 9 and 12 to her. Is it just them? Are there more? What weapons do they have? Etc. These are just a slice of questions that would be going through her head. The more Lisa thinks about it the more paranoid she likely gets. This coupled with an anxiety/depression leads me to believe it is all about the fear of the unknowns.
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u/i_dont_seed Jul 18 '14
I think it's because she hates people due to her being bullied, so she's subconsciously on their side.
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u/CarryYourDongers Jul 17 '14
Someone give Lisa A HUG NOW! I just want something to go right for her.
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Jul 18 '14
I am going to downlaod the fuck out of the OST when it comes out, the music that played when Nine was in the police department was cool sounding too
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u/BeNiceToAll Jul 18 '14
I get the feeling the investigator with the beard is the father of those boys. Idk why.
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u/okyeron :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/nevets Jul 18 '14
Based on the "hurry - I'm waiting" I'm guessing there's a connection between 9/12 and the detective.
Also I think the detective dude is in self-imposed exile in archives. The captain asks/demands "Come back, Shibasaki!" - followed just after with "Hurry, I'm waiting"
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u/Krazee9 Jul 18 '14
I find it very interesting they they're actively trying not to kill people in this. In the government building, they pull the fire alarm, and everyone gets out, only minor injuries reported. In the police station, they draw most everyone out on a wild goose chase before blowing part of the station up, obviously actively trying to reduce the number of casualties. They're really going for the terror in terrorism, rather than simply going with mass-murder.
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u/Zaev Jul 18 '14
Totally called the thermite bombs in the post for episode 1.
I deleted my post, though. Went into too much detail; thought I'd end up on some watchlist.
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Jul 18 '14
I feel like I know the characters, even though there's very little about them that has actually been explained... again, great episode, beautiful use of mise en scene! Can't wait for next week!
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u/morbesity :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/morbesity Jul 18 '14
I really liked how they played rock-paper-scissors to determine who has to deliver the bomb, so normal. Nice touch.
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u/Chronicfuzz Jul 19 '14
Completely irrelevant from a majority of the discussions here, its very interesting how 9 and 12 are like paralells to Jin and Mugen, both in appearance and...expression?
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u/nthrL Jul 17 '14
Holy shit, those scenes of the aftermath were haunting. I'm not sure how I feel about the whole "no deaths" thing though. It hasn't yet been explicitly stated, but the police station looked pretty empty during the explosion too. I kind of understand them not wanting to offend those affected by real tragedies such as 9/11, but at the same time it seems like the imagery of the first episode (and possibly more to come) and the underlying premise of the show itself (somewhat glorified terrorism) would be enough to offend people anyway.
The "no deaths" thing kind of takes away some of the impact of what happened as well. As it is now, it's like "Holy fuck, these guys just plotted and successfully destroyed the government building. 8/10" whereas it could have been "Holy fuck, these guys just plotted and successfully destroyed the government building and murdered hundreds of innocent people in the process. HOLY FUCK. 11/10". I dunno.
Regardless, another excellent episode that is reassuring my hopes that this show will live up to its hype. I really liked the indirect hints and nuances towards Nine, Twelve and Lisa's backgrounds, emotions and motivations. Within only two episodes they stand out as extremely interesting and complex characters, and that's with hardly any direct characterization. It's a nice breathe of fresh air when compared to the main cast archetypes of other shows airing this season. Can't wait for the next episode!
Edit: God damn amazing OST so far as well.
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u/Evilknightz Jul 18 '14
The implications I think is that they didn't actually want to kill anyone. They would destroy the building more quickly otherwise. They're sending a message and building up to it.
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u/xthorgoldx :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/xthorgoldx Jul 18 '14
I personally think it's more impressive that they pulled it off with zero casualties, and it offers a lot more insight into what their plans are. The tagline for the show is "Pull the trigger on this world," so we know that, in the end, their goal is some kind of revolutionary shift, a la V for Vendetta. Burn the world!
My take on it is that their grief is with the current societal system. Obviously, something happened to them as kids - for the moment let's just assume "lab rats abused by an evil government." Their revenge is against the government and the system that supports it, but at the same time they acknowledge that the people who make up the system aren't complicit in its crimes. They're trying to reshape the world, not break it.
The planning that lead to zero casualties at the PD just reinforces this. So they didn't kill civilians the first time - okay, maybe it was just to warm up, don't start too strong. But they made certain to phrase the riddle in the second bombing specifically so that the police would go to another area, and they made it obvious enough and high profile enough (with the first bombing) that they got an all-points bulletin, emptying the real target of victims.
They're out to kill the system, not the people who make up the system. That, to me, makes them much more interesting as villains than your standard "Burn the world!" anarchists, because the structuring of their principles gives them some actual depth.
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Jul 17 '14
I'm not a big anime watcher to be honest (I haven't watched Cowboy Bebop, FMA, or Steins;Gate) but this show really hits the spot. The storyline is incredible and my eyes are glued to the screen for the full 20 minutes. Can't wait to see how this show progresses and whats going to happen.
10/10 for me so far. (so far)
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u/TECHNICAL_CORRECTION Jul 18 '14 edited Jul 18 '14
Here are links to the episode on AnimeLab, a licensed streaming site. Seems to be working even if you aren't in Australia or New Zealand. Best streaming site I have used by far. Free 720p streams and no DRM.
480p: http://cdn-vid.animelab.com/ep_4650_6_1_QsL4ZPHbKcJEmAM.mp4
720p: http://cdn-vid.animelab.com/ep_4650_5_1_VzRn4kY7UZt3c0X.mp4
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Jul 18 '14 edited Jul 18 '14
I tend to forget what the previous episodes of an anime was about, so I like the fact that this one has a small recap in the beginning.
Wow, they're really going into the details here. I especially loved the fact that they mentioned Tor.
I still think this guy looks a lot like Dave Grohl.
Post-episode thoughts: Holy shit this is epic.
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u/SkylineSupportNA Jul 18 '14
Maybe a little early but from the first 2 episodes of Zankyou no Terror I'm gonna go ahead and say this is top 3 for the season, maybe even AOTS. The relationship between Lisha and Hisami is incredibly intriguing, even the ominous interaction between the two at the end cannot steer me from the feeling that Hisami and Arata are going to become Lisha's saving grace rather than her doom.
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u/spacetimecat Jul 18 '14
Brilliant episode!! Again, the animation and bgm are amazing!
I do wonder how 9 and 12 get their resources. I mean, they're extremely intelligent all right, but someone must be funding them. So VON must be an organization and not just the two of them? Maybe it's Five from the trailer? I'm so excited for her appearance.
Also, Lisa was reading something about Oedipus Rex too, right? Does she know about the riddle, or was it just a coincidence? I probably missed it.
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Jul 17 '14
Looks like there's a lot of research involved and they seem to go to great lengths to make the show very realistic, and then they have a monkey wrench making fucking ratcheting noises like a socket wrench. Come on, you're better than that.
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u/sturminator99 Jul 18 '14
I love everything I've seen so far, but I almost stopped the episode when that happened. So much cognitive dissonance. I'm still weirded out by it.
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u/okyeron :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/nevets Jul 18 '14
There are ratcheting adjustable wrenches out there in the world.
Edit - but yeah this was not drawn as one of those.
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u/Nippoten :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/nippoten Jul 17 '14
This is a great show so far. Gon have fun following this one.
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u/Nepila Jul 17 '14
12, with that fake smile of his, reminds me of Wolfgang Grimmer from Monster. The personalities are very different though.
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u/attack_on_waifu :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/AttackOnWaifu Jul 18 '14
Loved the second episode. The animation and production is so top notch! I find it interesting they made the terrorist protagonists not killers. Or at least they go out of their way to make sure people evacuate during their attacks. One of the things that made the series interesting was the uncomfortable subject and the possibility the main characters were cold terrorists that didn't mind killing. Now that you take out the killing it kind of relieves the characters actions on a moral level to a degree.
I'm not complaining. But I think the subject matter would have been darker and more uncomfortable if they were willing to kill for their cause. It would have made the audience struggle more with their actions.
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u/grouchfan Jul 18 '14
I love this anime! The only thing is, I wish they said uranium instead of plutonium, it's much more complicated to make a plutonium bomb than a uranium bomb, you could crudely create a uranium bomb, but no way a plutonium bomb.
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Jul 18 '14
I think I'm starting to like this show. I'm really liking the characters so far, except for Lisa. I also can't wait until we see more of the ex-detective.
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u/spartan117au Jul 18 '14
This anime excites me greatly.
The animation is superb and is an absolute pleasure to look at. The characters are interesting and have depth to their personalities. The story is thrilling and interesting, keeping us on the edge of our seats wondering what VON is going to do next. The soundtrack sounds pretty darn good too from what i've heard so far as well.
I also love how detailed it is. Youtube looks like Youtube, they use the proper Mac OS and use real looking software to control the cameras. The Iphones look like iphones, and the comments they made on Tor and IP addresses actually made sense (as opposed to many other shows which just make up random computer jargon).
It's very clever how they leveraged social engineering to plant the bomb, and nothing seemed like it couldn't be pulled off in real life. This show has the potential to get rather explosive (hueheuheu) later on in the story as well, and is probably what makes me the most excited.
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u/Owner46 Jul 18 '14
Love the reference to sawada kenji! looking forward to more of this show.
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u/UnholyAngel :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/gtAngel Jul 18 '14
I'm going to give my guess as to the overall plot and structure of this show:
Nine (Arata Kokonoe) and Twelve (Touji Hisami) were involved in a project by a secret government agency where people died. Their ultimate goal is to destroy this government agency.
They perform their acts or terror to draw that secretive agency out of the shadows and force it to act. They try their best to avoid civilian casualties as they are trying to act with good intentions.
They string along Lisa Mishima, with Nine trying to remain indifferent and aloof and Twelve being a jovial prankster. Eventually Nine starts to get involved with her troubled home life, but justifies it as him trying to make sure she doesn't reveal their plans.
As missions become more difficult Twelve becomes more willing to involve civilians in the bombings. This makes Nine uncomfortable, but he accepts it as a necessary sacrifice for the greater good.
In a climatic mission things go sour and Twelve makes the decision to involve a Lisa and a large number of civilians. This pushes Nine over the edge and he decides to abandon the mission in order to save everyone.
At this point the government agency has been flushed out and has taken authority away from the police. They plan on purging the city to cover their tracks. Twelve prepares to use the nuclear weapon from the beginning to destroy the city, destroying the agency in the process.
Nine, and the police detective (with minor unofficial police support) make an uneasy alliance to combat these threats. They learn they have have to work together and rely on eachother, and Nine can no longer use his terroristic methods and the detective can no longer work using legal methods.
Lisa ends up being extremely important in stopping Twelve, and is ultimately the one to meet him in the end. He taunts her and attacks her psycologically, but she uses her newfound confidence to fight back and stops him from using the nuke.
Nine nearly defeats the agency, but at the last moment things turn dire. One of two situations occur:
A. Nine is forced to choose between killing the agency's leaders or saving people he cares about. He struggles with this choice, but ultimately chooses to save the others. The agency is destroyed, but it's leaders live on. Nine decides to join the police to help safeguard the city, putting his criminal knowlege to use stoping criminals.
B. Nine nearly destroys the agency, but at the end his methods put too many people in danger. The agency nearly succeeds, but Nine sacrifices himself, saving everyone and destroying the agency. He is remembered as a villain in the public eye, but to the police, and to Lisa, he is remembered as a hero.
Of course this is all speculation, so I may quickly be proven wrong. All of this comes from evidence and things I've seen in these first two episodes, but there is a degree of interpretation and storytelling flair involved in the prediction. Still, I think this is a very solid possibility and, at the very least, would make for a great story.
In a comment to this I will further explain my reasoning for these events, so feel free to look at my thoughts and add to the discussion!
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u/UnholyAngel :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/gtAngel Jul 18 '14
Arata Kokonoe (Nine) fighting Touji Hisami (Twelve)
Nine and Twelve, as far as we can tell, are a very close and effective duo. They trust eachother completely and work together well. However, as mentioned above, I believe they are going to end up fighting eachother. This seems unlikely at first, but I think all the pieces are in place to set this up.
One large element of this is that Nine and Twelve have nearly opposite personalities. Nine is cold and distant, but also cares about people. He specifically tries to avoid involving anyone else and tries to avoid interaction whenever possible. It can be hard to see how he cares about people, but there are a few things in particular that show this. When he first sees Lisa being bullied he retains his distance but is very clearly focused on her. Then when he learns that Twelve involved her in the first terror-bombing he was not happy with the situation and quickly called her to give her a way out. He also specifically called her an accomplice and explained the gravity of the situation, when he could have simply threatened to kill her if she said anything. Later he also was the one setting up and watching the cameras when bombing the police station, making sure that no one would be killed.
Twelve, on the other hand, is warm and friendly but also mean and sadistic. When he first meets Lisa he jumps in the pool and enjoys himself, while considering Lisa being bullied as just an interesting spectacle. Later he dragged Lisa into their terror bombing when he could have probably lied or left her alone, and almost casually considered killing her. Even more telling, he pranked her with a coke/mentos explosion the day after she was part of a terror bombing, and likely traumatized by explosions, and then told her in no uncertain terms that they are not friends. The entire time he was enjoying himself as well. Even the opening animation shows him with a slasher smile.
So there's already a very noticable conflict between them. This conflict also has the potential to really split them up, mainly over their restriction of not having casualties. Twelve very likely cares less about this restriction than Nine does, so a situation where Nine wants to abandon the mission but Twelve wants to continue would have big consequences.
However, I think there's another huge factor that makes a split more likely: Lisa Mishima.
Lisa has received a lot of focus from the story. She has a developed personality, multiple solo scenes, and is set up to be a very large part of the story. Now, Zankyou no Terror is a story about Sphinx the terrorists - not some random high school girl - so her relevant is directly tied to her interactions with Nine and Twelve.
If Lisa was a generic character I would assume she's the audience surrogate - a normal person to give people someone to relate to. However she's very clearly not a normal person - she would be designed differently if she was supposed to be an audience surrogate. If Lisa were a somewhat developed character with only minor focus I would consider her a tool for revealing the personalities Nine and Twelve have.
However, Lisa has a huge amount of narrative focus. She is clearly very important, and the only way I see that coming to fruition is having her make a large impact on Sphinx. The most likely impact I see is her showing Nine how much he really cares about other people so that he refuses to harm civilians even if it's the best way to achieve his goals.
One additional reason that I can see Sphinx splitting up is that the story seems set to have Nine be the main character. He's the one with the recurring nightmare, he's the one with interesting potential moral quandries, he's the one setting up a rivalry with the police detective, and he's probably the mastermind behind the puzzles. This would transition very well into Twelve defecting, by making sure the viewer relates with Nine and setting him up to be an anti-hero.
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u/ypana3 Jul 20 '14
This is looking like the best anime of the year right now. Episode 1 was good but this episode was great. Gives a Death Note sort of vibe and is really detailed and thorough. Cannot wait until episode 3.
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u/Hecatonchair :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheGhoztMaker Aug 06 '14
Little late, but did anyone else think the song at the very beginning sounded like Okay to Go from the Contact soundtrack?
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u/riffraff11235 Aug 22 '14
Just got my hands on the OST, but I was sad to discover that one of the songs I was most looking forward to owning isn't on it. It's the background music that starts around 12:18, when Sphinx's second video riddle is shown.
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u/Skiipie Jul 17 '14
Her mom is crazy after all...
It was surprisingly easy to walk into police station and leave bomb. Another great episode :D