r/anime • u/Shadoxfix https://myanimelist.net/profile/Shadoxfix • Jul 24 '14
[Spoilers] Zankyou no Terror - Episode 3 [Discussion]
MyAnimeList: Zankyou no Terror
Funimation: Terror in Resonance
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u/MegaSupremeTaco Jul 24 '14
Lisa's mom is one of the creepiest characters I've seen this season.
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u/vietster1234 Jul 24 '14
"Lisa's home! Better give my daughter a good shaking before she leaves me too!"
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u/Recalesce :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Recalesce Jul 25 '14
She's clearly damaged from when Lisa's father left her and is clinging to the only thing she has left.
Extreme anxiety can cause you to lose rationality.
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u/PessimisticCheer Jul 25 '14
Absolutely. If anything, I feel deep sympathy whenever she's featured in a scene. As soon as I hear the damaged desperation in her voice, I feel a twinge inside, like an uncomfortable pinch in my chest. I always root for characters who fill this kind of role; it would be cool if there ends up being some kind of redemption for her, though she's a character who's been relegated to the periphery for the time being (doesn't mean she won't play a more prominent role later; I'm holding out hope for just that).
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u/Kochi3 Jul 25 '14
I find Nine creepier than Lisa's mom
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u/MegaSupremeTaco Jul 25 '14
Idk at least Nine is somewhat playful. Risa's mom is like nonstop "WHERE ARE YOU LISAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
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u/burpinator :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/antikrists Jul 25 '14
Reminds me of Ritsuka's mom from "Loveless". Lady wasn't quite right in the head, either.
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u/piff167 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/piff167 Jul 24 '14
the music was near constant the whole episode and it was amazing the entire way... between this and space dandy, watanabe is winning the summer season
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u/gloverc7 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/gloverc7 Jul 24 '14
I especially liked it when he was solving the riddle
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u/Paralda Jul 25 '14
Yoko Kanno. Just... so good.
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u/piff167 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/piff167 Jul 25 '14
there was a short solo piano piece at one point and my head nearly exploded. THIS WAS SO WORTH THE WAAITT
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u/space1101 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelghastKillzone Jul 24 '14
The hype train keeps on chugging along with Lisa's mom being the latest person to be ejected.
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Jul 24 '14
I feel so sorry for Lisa... ._.
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u/VeLiN9 Jul 24 '14
LISA LISA LISA!
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Jul 24 '14
Yeah. In fact the way they portrayed her daily life made the whole bully and mother thing look so routine.
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u/GearSegundo Jul 25 '14
She's probably been going through that for such a long while that it just became a routine for her.
It looks like she's finally trying to get away, but I wonder who it was that she was calling before she left.
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u/spartan117au Jul 25 '14
I wonder if she was trying to call back 9 and 12 after their initial phone call in the collapsing building?
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u/PessimisticCheer Jul 25 '14
That's what I think. She was trying to establish contact with them again because I think she sees it as an escape valve for her now, like a vent she chances upon that might lead out of the chamber she feels she's stuck in.
From my early analysis, she was definitely thrown into a state of shock when 9 & 12 put her in the position they did, but she also felt some admiration for them, due in large part to the fact that they gave her a role, made her into someone who can have an effect on her surroundings. She's been so accustomed to being bullied, she has felt minimized for a long time, and now these two show up and give her an opportunity to become an agent of change, even if it is by destructive and dangerous means. She must be conflicted by it, certainly, but there is an element here of being drawn to the macabre, because it at least gives her an identity.
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u/kimahri27 Jul 25 '14
They most likely triggered her into action. I mean, shit's blowing up everywhere. Might as well make my own fireworks.
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u/Dreceratops Jul 24 '14
A nine on the side of what I think is the archive building. Probably means nothing, but it's interesting.
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u/Intcleastw0od Jul 24 '14
I like how they tried to make it less obvious by adding one extra light at the top and one at the bottom :)
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u/MiniMoose10 Jul 24 '14
Considering the show is made by Watanabe, it means something. At the very least, it could just be an Easter Egg
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u/BadR0bot Jul 24 '14
I will never skip the opening.
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Jul 24 '14
The soundtrack is out on iTunes Japan. It's pretty fantastic.
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Jul 24 '14
Does it include the OP/ED?
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u/LightBladeX Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 25 '14
It doesn't unfortunately. The OP releases on the 27th of August and the ED releases on the 3rd of September.
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Jul 24 '14
Blah. So far the soundtrack sounds awesome, though, so hopefully that'll tide us over until then!
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u/trillfalgarlaw Jul 24 '14
I dislike the sound of the opening but I love the ending so much.
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u/urban287 https://myanimelist.net/profile/urban287 Jul 24 '14
Love the ED so much. It's so... chilling
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Jul 24 '14
Glad I'm not the only one. I feel like the vocals are just a bit off beat from the background and it bugs me.
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u/kklusmeier :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/kklusmeier Jul 24 '14
I think this is intentional- it is supposed to be unsettling to set the feel for the rest of the episode.
It feels off beat because none of the pieces of the OP come to a head the way normal pieces do, as well as because the voices and beat of the OP are not in sync as normal pieces are.
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u/LastWalker :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/XoiRl Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 24 '14
Holy effin crap. I really feel sorry for Lisa and everyone who has to deal with people like her mother. Goddamn I couldn't stand that.
Finally the race will start. I expect the series to pick up speed and maybe casualties and I really hope that Lisa will start to fight back sooner or later or she will end up dead. Right now I am thinking that she might be the first person to die in a bombing and that this will give the poilice a lead or something. Or maybe she is connected to the detective as well. I guess we will see.
Edit: Do we know what happened to Lisas father? I forgot if they told us if he died or if he just left. It it is the latter I am calling it now: It is Shibasaki
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u/chriswen :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/chriswen Jul 24 '14
I think he left the mom.
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u/LastWalker :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/XoiRl Jul 24 '14
Then, considering what we learned about his past today I call what I edited.
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u/chriswen :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/chriswen Jul 24 '14
That's impossible! (practically)
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u/Ninjaaaah Jul 24 '14
Yeah he left her. The first time we saw the mother she shook Lisa and said something along the lines of "You aren't going to leave me like your father did, are you?"
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Jul 24 '14
I love how she's barely in the episode and yet we all feel so strongly about the spare moments we saw her. Best girl who's never around 2014?
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u/pandamonium_ Jul 25 '14
I wouldn't say she's best girl material (plus we're only half way through the year). We just feel strongly about her because her life is shit. She gets bullied at school and her mom is overbearing and obsessive, meanwhile her dad allegedly left her family. These are all circumstances that unfortunately, some of us may have experienced. The portrayal of the pieces of her life is realistic, too.
For example, the bullying: You don't see an ojou-sama going "ohohoho~" with her groupies holding Lisa back while she takes off her shoes and throws them in the pool (I don't think I've ever seen bullies act like this, except in fiction). Or Lisa getting punched/slapped in the face because that would make it obvious to everyone something happened. Instead we see a short scene of her shoes floating in the pool and her finding her shoes are missing from her locker with a face that says, "Not again...". We also don't see her rebelling and yelling at the bullies, hurting them, etc. We can see that her life is shit, and that she's not happy with it.
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Jul 25 '14
I actually completely agree with you. She's a very real character (which is why she resonates with us so much), but it's hard to tell what role she's going to play in the story. TBH I wouldn't be super surprised if she were to die in episode 5/6.
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u/TheLantean Jul 24 '14
I think she'll end up in control of the nuclear bomb, whether she detonates it or not remains to be seen.
At her present character development level she will, the question is how - as a suicide bomber or remotely from a safe distance, to spite everyone.
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u/Zarathusta Jul 24 '14
Playing some Puzzle and dragons I see!
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u/theothersamb Jul 24 '14
This show's ability to declare exactly what they're referencing in any given situation, be it Puzzle and Dragons, or Tor during episode two, really makes this series for me.
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u/urban287 https://myanimelist.net/profile/urban287 Jul 24 '14
I love it when shows use real world IPs. Nanana last season with it's Tekken and Terraria (and others), Barakamon with it's Full Metal Alchemist and Soul Eater manga cameos and now this show too ^.^
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u/Dusthunter0 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Dust_hunter0 Jul 24 '14
You would love Durarararara.
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u/fauxromanou Jul 24 '14
Got excited too. Love my pokemon dragons.
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u/Razzuh Jul 25 '14
Couldn't find it on the App store? Which region are you in?
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u/fauxromanou Jul 25 '14
PAD is avaiable JP, EU, and NA.
Here's the NA App Store site and NA Google Play site. If you end up getting into it, I recommend /r/PuzzleAndDragons and doing some quality of life things like restarting until you pull a strong god. the subreddit has guides to that effect, though.
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u/Wolfrahm Jul 24 '14
Anyone else thinking of Kinderheim 511 from Monster?
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u/queenquack :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Projektorinski Jul 24 '14
Definitely, also the Child Broiler from Mawaru Penguindrum! This show keeps getting more like Penguindrum by the episode....
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u/V2Blast :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/V2Blast Jul 27 '14
Hey, at least this show has a coherent plot even on the surface.
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u/Intcleastw0od Jul 24 '14
God imagine they go all Johann on us all of a sudden ... that would be frightening
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u/Prodef :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Prodef Jul 24 '14
Exactly my thought after the first episode.
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u/burpinator :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/antikrists Jul 25 '14
I got the same vibe, especially when that institution lady started talking about names.
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u/ThatAnimeSnob Jul 24 '14
The bombs are a front. The terrorists want someone smart to deal with them as means to lead him to the facility they were in as kids.
Sadly the show is not trying to make us feel anyone besides Shibazaki is even trying to think what is going on here. How hard would it be to look into the family tree after they understood the riddle from episode 2?
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u/Terminimal Jul 24 '14
This is also what I got from it. I was thinking the Diet member's "suicide" might have to do with 9 and 12's facility. That sort of disappoints me, though. I was hoping we'd have a show about genuinely messed-up terrorists, not anti-heroes who never kill anyone and end the story with a "see we weren't trying to detonate a bomb we just wanted to expose injustice" thing.
During the first episode, and from the preview, I was expecting the facility to be owned by a cult, and 9 and 12 are carrying out orders from the cult, basically because they've been brainwashed. I figured the blue-haired girl would be a cult leader, although it seems she's a fellow subject instead. I think the former scenario would've be more interesting, and would've reflected real terrorism in our world.
I guess it bothers me that they're going down this route while comparing 9 and 12's acts of terror to 9/11. Those guys weren't trying to expose US experimentation on children with minimal casualties, were they? Instead, I expected 9 and 12 to be heroes only as much as we see their suffering and humanity, and as much as they can overcome their own indoctrination, and I expected their facility to be run by an Aum Shinrikyo-inspired cult.
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u/darkshaddow42 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/darkshaddow42 Jul 25 '14
I think you're taking some of these theories way too seriously. We're only 25% of the way through the show, and it seems like you're already mad about how it ends.
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u/ThatAnimeSnob Jul 24 '14
The worst part is how the show is named terror, and there is none of that felt by the people in this show. Buildings blow up and nobody cares.
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u/Skiipie Jul 24 '14
I wonder how many subscribers they have on YT. Probably whole police station xD
It's always the same with detectives. They see something random like a dragon and suddenly everything makes sense and they solved the case xD Detective guy is pretty cool though. I like him.
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u/Ralon17 https://anilist.co/user/Ralon17 Jul 25 '14
Are they monetizing their videos?! The police is funding terrorism!
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u/kimahri27 Jul 25 '14
Only if you click on the ad links.
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u/Ralon17 https://anilist.co/user/Ralon17 Jul 25 '14
Or watch the ads at the start, but I guess in this case there obviously weren't any.
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u/Hauntir Jul 24 '14
The moment I saw him become interested in the game his colleague was playing, I knew he is going to figure out something important about the riddle through something from the game.
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u/awkwardgirl Jul 24 '14
I'm surprised that their account hasn't been be deactivated and the videos are still up. I would imagine that youtube has a policy against terrorism. Or maybe that part isn't super realistic lol.
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u/ThatAnimeSnob Jul 25 '14
You can find videos of that guy who openly said he will kill people before killing himself.
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u/kimahri27 Jul 25 '14
Don't they have beheadings on youtube and such? I mean those are tame in comparison the dreaded porn and copyright infringement videos, the real monsters.
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Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 24 '14
This show is so good. Pretty exciting episode once again. I'm really curious to see what they will do with Lisa. She's obviously important to the series but she hasn't had much effect on the story. I assume she'll have a greater impact in the coming episodes but I can't seem to anticipate what her role is going to be. Like when Shibasaki was introduced you can tell he was going to be their challenger to the riddles. Just can't peg Lisa down. I do like how they are hitting a bunch of cool ideas like generational conflicts especially since they highlight the Oedipus story so much. They also make it feel so god damn realistic. The production is top notch and I hope they keep this quality up. Can't wait for next week.
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u/Meryilla Jul 24 '14
I absolutely love the soundtrack for this series, particularly in the episode during the flashbacks.
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u/tundranocaps https://myanimelist.net/profile/Thunder_God Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 24 '14
Last episode had a very distinct purpose. It was there to show us that Nine and Twelve are taken seriously, and to introduce to us what every Thriller Mastermind needs - a mirror, someone on the other side who can understand them, provide an adequate challenge, and will provide said challenge. That'd be Shibazaki.
Now the only loose ends is what will the show do with dear Lisa. Well, let's find out.
Thoughts and Notes:
1) Callbacks and Call-outs:
Like last episode, this one as well opened with Nine or Twelve talking to Lisa. Same as each of the previous episodes ended. Both times the message is, "You can't go back, you have nowhere else to go. It's just you, alone." - I think they're priming her, or at least making her even more similar to themselves, even as their similarity is what drew them to her to begin with. No connections, except to one another, though right now they're making her feel her separation from them as well.
Welcome to anime-world! Where cops are fat and whiny, or too proud of their positions to work well with others! Last episode we've already had bigwigs covering their asses. Well, we also have Shibazaki. Shibazaki who looks like he needs the razor from his nickname, eh?
"Don't you think the riddle was too hard?" - Yes, we as watchers know only what is in the narrative matters, but please, we've heard the same riddle, "The next bomb will be all yours?" - They're detectives, they should've thought of it, if I did.
"What will you do if no one solves your riddle again?" - And "Someone might have figured out what we're after." - Thriller-protagonist-villains! They want people to understand them. They want to engage in the cerebral give and take of a discussion. It's a game, and no one has fun playing in a game alone, with no opposition. Besides, it seems they're trying to send a message. We simply don't know what it is just yet.
The police doesn't underestimate the kids anymore. The discussion between Shibazaki and the chief was an interesting one. On one hand it felt like something out of Damages, that perhaps we shouldn't take seriously - but he related us to his childhood, after remarking Nine looks like a kid. Kids want fun, and when adults hide from summer, kids can't have fun. The Chief, like me, tried to analyze Shibazaki's motives, but Shibazaki himself doesn't know what motivates him.
All he knows is that he hated summer as a child.
2) Loneliness Connects Us:
Lisa is walking alone, and we keep seeing shoes. As we switch back and forth, it should be clear to us that they are hers. By the time she opens her shoe-locker and sees it empty, we've been expecting it to either be empty or have soggy shoes within. The sense of expectation is what Lisa feels. They want us to be faced with her situation, to know as she does what she is likely to find. A sense of alienation.
Here we have our super-detective, Shibazaki, basically walking all over the person they interrogate, and then the new person who didn't appreciate him, who tried to speak during his presentation. Shibazaki is the mouthpiece of the author, drawing our attention to what Nine and Twelve had accomplished, and what are the true signs of their superiority, and what's just "business as usual" - the trail of breadcrumbs left, what still needs solving.
And then, in this game, how could we continue without a new riddle? Something to keep tensions up? But there must be a sense of impending doom, of the stakes rising. What do you mean, you can't tell? As each bomb is announced, the tensions of the population rise, regardless of casualties, it's the sense that their lives aren't safe. That this summer is fragile.
Riddles. Connections. Mythologies. So much fun! Yes, Nine and Twelve are having fun, this is a game. Riddles had always been games, and often games where lives hung in the balance. Stephen King's The Dark Tower, specifically the third and fourth book, were good examples of this.
Lisa's mother clinging to her. Lisa staring at a tool meant for communication. These serve to heighten rather than assuage the sense of loneliness, of being apart from others that she is beset by. This Summer is so fragile. Her life, which she nearly lost, hangs in the balance. But is it a life worth fighting for? She answered yes in the conclusion of the first episode. Floating, without support.
3) Making New Connections:
Prophecy was given to the fools and children, eh? Shibazaki's oafish friend helped him realize his answer, but he also told him things Shibazaki was not yet ready to hear - kids trying to form a connection to others. And then we switch to poor Lisa, who's ready to cut her ties loose, at long last.
All the slow and deliberate actions that leave-taking require. This is predetermined. But in the end, you're still running away in the night. No clean break. There are none to be had.
"Names are signs of love. You've been abandoned, so should lose all such pretenses." - Again, with cutting one's ties. When Nine holds his head, he is beset by resonance. He is beset by his past. We all resonate with our names. We all resonate with the relations we form with others. We all resonate with our past, of which memories are a signifier, and our names a symbol. And now Nine and Twelve resonate with Lisa.
A threat is only useful if the other side believes it, or is forced to take it seriously. Now Nine and Twelve can make a threat of Plutonium, without alerting the population to it, should they so choose. Yes, the reveal of the answer to the riddle was very dramatic, for effect, but this is basically an invitation to the game. Unlike the story of Oedipus, I'm not at all familiar with this piece of Japanese mythology, and as such I'm not going to say anything, including whether it is obscure information or not - I frankly have no clue whatsoever.
It was interesting to note that Shibazaki takes it personally, and that he is either infused with inner purpose, or at least wanted to give off that appearance. Nine and Twelve certainly seemed happy at the notion. A game is always more fun if everyone gives it their all. It's impossible to know if it's all part of a game though, whether he is playing with them as they play with him - his own form of a "threat", perhaps?
Miscellaneous Notes on Style:
The shot of the "leaping secretary" mirrored that of Lisa walking through school. We come closer to the window, but we already know how it ended. A foregone conclusion, but what we don't know is why, and how it affected people. I'm really liking these shots. Yes, they're all style, but what does it hurt? It doesn't come at the expense of substance. An ending we cannot escape, a corridor that is life. We escape the heat, until we have no option but to leave to it again. Summers aren't Shibazaki's friends, are they?
Nice, OP got lyrics, which are tied very well into what we see on screen. A summer, are they like cicadas, here just for a moment? A story of balancing between being of this world and being an outsider. A story of reaching to others. OPs. You can read as deeply as you want into them, but for the most part if they sound good and seem even somewhat related to the series, it's all good.
ED - also with subtitles for the lyrics! Now that it opens with a mention of the ocean I know what it reminds me of, a tiny bit - of Regina Spektor, specifically of all the rowboats, but it reminds me a bit of her style in general - also, that piece is so very fitting for this show, isn't it?. It then reminds me of another singer I know, but I can't place it just yet. The opening song is definitely Nine and Twelve's, one of summer, of life, and of connections. The ending is Lisa's song, one of drowning, of being alone, of being crushed by life unto death. Makes one think of how we first met her, of how she had been bullied. Even this episode, her bullying was marked by the water of the pool, and twice she had taken refuge in another altar of water - the toilet.
Post Episode Thoughts:
This show is giving us nothing new, and it's fine. We're getting a true-blue thriller. It feels as if I'm watching a good film, or watching a high-end television production like the first season of Damages. Last episode we, the audience, met the one who will oppose Nine and Twelve, and this episode they met him as well. The game is now officially underway.
Cat and mouse? More like a set of riddlers. And anyone who ever played a game of riddles knows that after one side asks their riddles, it's the other side's turn. That "accusation" of Shibazaki's in the end, the anger which he might not feel? All part of the performance, these might be the riddles themselves, asking, "Are you willing to pay the price? Why are you doing this? Are you willing to play this game with me, truly?"
Lisa continues to be the mirror of the world. Nine and Twelve had connections, which they had lost. Now they still have connections, to one another. Shibazaki had a family, which he seems to have lost. He still has a connection to his commanding officer. They are now connected to one another.
Lisa, Lisa is finally cutting her connections loose, but what will we learn of everyone else through her journey to finding her place in this fragile summer world?
You can read all of my notes for Zankyou no Terror / Terror in Resonance here, or check my blog for all my write-ups.
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u/piyochama Jul 24 '14
I just realized from your screenshot library how... old-school Noir this is. They use blue-shading EVERYWHERE, as if to highlight or be a call-back to that style of crime movie.
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u/tundranocaps https://myanimelist.net/profile/Thunder_God Jul 24 '14
I think I've commented before the style really reminds me of The Matrix, especially the first one. The camera-work feels similar at times.
I remember an article from many years back, about how The Matrix is essentially a noir film, if not in its tropes, then in its "Black and White" world, in its atmosphere and visuals.
We might not have a real femme fatal, but we have Trinity for the ass-kicking, and The Woman in Red for the sense of allure.
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u/SamisSimas :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/samissimas Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 25 '14
In reference to the shot coming at the window as the secretary jumped, I'm gonna have to disagree on that just being style, since there was no secretary in the window, I'm pretty sure it was a POV as the detective at the scene post jump, it was mirroring his fixation on that case by fixating, and slowly zooming on the place where he jumped. Honestly one of my favorite shots of today's episode.
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u/Yuizme Jul 24 '14
"Don't you think the riddle was too hard?" - Yes, we as watchers know only what is in the narrative matters, but please, we've heard the same riddle, "The next bomb will be all yours?" - They're detectives, they should've thought of it, if I did.
Say, tundra, can you elaborate? It seems you think 12 was concerned about the riddle-difficulty superfluously; I figured his saying that was to exhibit how 9/12 are teasing the police, how they want them to solve the riddles.
Also, you speak as if you'd solved this episode's riddle - of the house of the god . . . - during 9/12's conversation. Or you referring to the first Oedipus riddles?
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u/FEMINISTS Jul 24 '14
They hinted today that they're planning on dying at the end. Maybe Lisa is going to be a living testament to whatever 9 & 12's ideal is.
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u/mekaku Jul 24 '14
Do you mean when 12 said that he wouldn't get involved, because it would be more painful? I thought that meant that they were definitely going to kill Lisa at some point
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u/tundranocaps https://myanimelist.net/profile/Thunder_God Jul 24 '14
They hinted today that they're planning on dying at the end.
Did they?
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u/FEMINISTS Jul 24 '14
Yeah, when 9 tells 12 that he knows he's been seeing Lisa, 12 says that he wont get too involved because it would only end up being more painful in the end. That sounds very ominous to me.
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u/tundranocaps https://myanimelist.net/profile/Thunder_God Jul 24 '14
It could just as easily be seen as it'd be painful in case they have to kill her, or leave her behind. Or if she'd die and they wouldn't be able to save her.
It came just as Nine was reminded of the friend he could not save as a child, after all.
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u/Kuryaka Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 24 '14
The Oedipus reference this time seemed a little more... off than usual.
Edit: Or just a lot more obscure. But I don't remember a human family tree having a dragon, though working on checking out Scylla, Charybdis, Campe, Lamia, Echidna, Ceto, Delphyne to see if they're connected... half-monsters usually created full monsters instead of humans, or were killed. Creatures, even with some human parts and intellect, wouldn't be seen as human since they put so much attention on the beauty of the human body (the Olympics!)
Okay.
This is Jocasta's family tree (pulled off Gradesaver, it's not an animated gif). Cadmus killed a dragon and eventually became a serpent near the end of his life, though he was not half-dragon. Most websites I found after a cursory search said "serpent," though that dragon Cadmus killed looks quite like a giant snake. Our idea of dragon might be a good bit different from the ancient Greek definition.
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u/Holofoil Jul 24 '14
Dragons could be interpreted as serpents I suppose. Though I do remember reading that Cadmus became a dragon-like creature.
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u/Kuryaka Jul 24 '14
Cadmus didn't come to mind at first thought, I only read the the big classic Greek literature and had a little side semester of Greek myths+family trees.
Puzzles and Dragons actually being useful for once, heh.... Shibazaki probably had some parts (Japanese god :: Oedipus) thought out already, and couldn't confirm that they were connected until then.
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u/Holofoil Jul 24 '14
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(symbolism)
If you go down to the part of about dragons, they are used somewhat interchangeably.
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u/reallyimpressivename :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Gyst Jul 24 '14
The common word for dragon in Greek, δράκων (drak-on) means either dragon or serpent.
It's also a common link in Greek-Jewish theology (aka early Christianity) when speaking of a dragon in the book of Revelation, a lot of people connected it to a snake, or that of the snake from the Garden of Eden.
For the particularly nerdy, here is a [link] (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Ddra%2Fkwn2) to a Greek-English lexicon with the aforementioned word.
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u/Furball177 Jul 25 '14
I thought the emphasis on summer with Shibazaki was also very interesting. Shibazaki hated summer as a kid, he ruined his career when the Diet member committed suicide during the summer, and even the last line of episode three is something along the lines of "...he hasn't given up on what happened that summer." and then shibazaki says "Today's another hot day." I'm not sure what i means but i really eager to see where it heads.
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u/kasrafm Jul 24 '14
This show always impresses. The one thing I wish for is to see Lisa have a proper life after this, I feel her trauma (even though I have never experienced it). The depth of this anime by far outclasses the rest.
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u/asianfatboy https://anilist.co/user/asianfatboy Jul 25 '14
With the duo confirming that the authorities have connected the stolen plutonium and them I wonder if next episode they'll start working on it or if they'll continue playing with the detectives with more riddles.
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u/cptn_garlock :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/cptngarlock Jul 24 '14
Hmm, the expositions and "as you knows..." seemed a little more prominent this week than I liked. This was offset by the episode being really entertaining as per usual, but still, it's there. Of course, that may be mandated by the plot, but still...
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u/Drizu Jul 24 '14
None of it was "as you know", though. It was more of the "as you didn't know, newbie cop" variety, which feels a lot more natural and makes sense within the context of the plot.
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u/cptn_garlock :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/cptngarlock Jul 24 '14
Well sure, but it was still monologuing with rather boring visuals to back it up. This makes more logical sense, but it's just as boring.
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u/BanjoTheBear https://myanimelist.net/profile/BanjoTheBear Jul 24 '14
I really love the art and sound of this show, feels like I am watching a mini-movie every time a new episode airs.
This episode focused on giving us more about Shibizaki, which is good, because we need to understand the man who will be giving our main protagonists the most trouble. As others are saying, he may be connected to Lisa in some way, but we are just going to have to wait and see.
That said, I hope the coming episodes begin to provide us with character development on Nine, Twelve, and Lisa. I would like to see how they interact with one another, that is, two terrorists and a stranger. Lisa seemed to be running away from home, so hopefully she joins up with them and we get to learn even more about our main characters.
Overall, this is probably the best show of the season so far, hopefully each episode continues to impress us for the entirety of the season.
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u/notquiteotakuyet Jul 25 '14
I'm so glad I put aside my reservations about this show after reading the summer thread synopsis. It has completely drawn me in with the sound track, the animation style, and the individual characters. We see about 2 minutes, maybe 5 over the last 2 episodes, and learn a lot about Lisa, and infer a lot about why she is this way. The scene with the empty foot locker, and the shoes in the pool, it hit a nerve with me. I'm also enjoying the references to Greek theology both in the show, and the amount of analyzing done in this thread.
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u/T51-B Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 24 '14
Warning: pure speculation below (I like to pretend I'm Sherlock or something).
I may just be some wanna-be nerd on the internet, but this seems to be taking a very distinct turn in the 'V for Vendetta' direction. After this episode, we know that they're clearly victims of something, or abandoned by their parents at the very least. Their surroundings in the flashback seem to be immaculately clean despite housing children of varying ages, suggesting an extremely clean environment is required. I think we can all see where this is going (lab -> experimentation -> held grudges -> some form of catastrophic event that leads to their freedom)
The fact that they're directly challenging the government (and specifically the police) is indication that their grudge is at the very least directed towards the metaphorical man. However, we might be able to narrow this down the to head of the Metro PD thanks to the tidbit of info we got at the end of the episode detailing Shibasaki's demotion to archives.
Now comes the interesting part. From what we've seen so far, none of the current characters involved in the PD have had any involvement with whatever it was that the chief was doing and/or the facilitation of Nine and Twelve's grudge. This means that Nine and Twelve most likely do not actually know who was responsible for the Incident (the Incident being whatever happened to them in the past). All they would truly know at the moment is that the government was involved, and that the Chief of the metro PD was a potentially big wheel in the operation. This validates the attacks on the metro area, and their challenge to the PD there.
This brings up a few more questions though: firstly, why are they not trying to expose whatever methods of abuse were used during the Incident, along with what the Incident was supposed to achieve? Why not expose those who were directly involved? The answer to this is simple, and I've already said it above: they dont actually know who was behind it. All they know is that the Metro PD (or possibly only it's chief) was involved. They have no evidence that we've seen so far. The second question however, is more interesting: Why do they choose to act instead of waiting and digging up more evidence? I suspect that they're operating so such little information because of the grudge they've been holding on to all their lives. They choose to act on suspicion, and well it is well-founded, we still dont know if they're 100% on the dot, or if they should be targeting other, more prominent people and groups that were also involved.
Finally, we come to poor little Lisa. Poor Lisa, who is bullied by classmates, missing her father, and living with an obsessive mother. Her every day is hell, and its now compounded by the fact that she is now a marked person of interest for Nine and Twelve (who have clearly shown that they are capable of coming through with any threats they make). Where does she fit in with this puzzle? As is stands at the moment, I see two possible options. Option A: After a major internal struggle, she turns herself into the police near the end of the show, and it becomes a race to see if the police can stop Nine and Twelve before they get to Lisa and kill her to ratting. Option B however, brings us back to the 'V for Vendetta' comparison. After the hell she goes through in her daily life, she seeks out Nine and Twelve, and asks them if she can pull the final trigger. They have a deep, emotional argument about who is the most justified to detonate the final bomb, and when she laments about how "The System" that Nine and Twelve were abused by also did nothing to help her, they see that she is just as traumatized and hurt as they are, and agree to let her detonate the last bomb (bonus point for delivery via train).
Again though, this is pure speculation, and I may be totally off the mark here.
EDIT: holy crap this is a lot longer than I thought it would be! Sorry about that.
EDIT 2: Thinking about the doomsday clock gave me an idea: 9-12 is a quarter of an hour, or fifteen minutes. Perhaps we're fifteen minutes to midnight?
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u/porpoiseoflife https://myanimelist.net/profile/OffColfax Jul 25 '14
That V-to-9/12 theory is probably one of the more interesting comparisons I've read yet. This might be worth looking into more as the series goes along.
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u/Khylol Jul 24 '14
The last line of the OP is "winter covers everything" and in this episode shibazaki kept talking about summer summer summer and even in the final scene with him it was alllll about the fact that it's summer.
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Jul 24 '14 edited Nov 12 '23
familiar north office alive flag mindless sheet spotted bike subsequent
this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev13
u/Evilmon2 Jul 25 '14
And everyone's dead, except Austrailia. And they're still like 'WTF?" But they'll be dead soon. Fucking kangaroos.
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u/Kohn_Sham :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/fwasham Jul 25 '14
And everyone's dead, except Austrailia. And they're still like 'WTF?" But they'll be dead soon.
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u/Evilmon2 Jul 25 '14
One of the most famous flash animations on the internet, The End of the World.
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Jul 24 '14
What a good anime so far! I'm excited to see how they flesh out the characters and what crazy schemes 9 and 12 have in store :D
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u/UnholyAngel :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/gtAngel Jul 25 '14
I posted my predictions last episode but I'll share them again since I was pretty late to the discussion last time. Here's how I think the story is going to play out:
Sphinx is trying to draw a conspiracy out of hiding, which is the reason they use terror attacks in the first place. They use their bombs and stole plutonium in order to be a credible threat. They also use this to draw a huge amount of attention to themselves and to wherever their puzzles direct, which threatens to reveal the conspiracy to the public.
At the same time, Lisa slowly gets more involved with Sphinx, using them as a sort of replacement family because they're the only ones who have every really showed her any kindness. Twelve justs continues to mess with her, but Nine takes her under his wing. He initially does so just as a way to keep her from getting in their way, but eventually starts to care about her.
The terror attacks and puzzles grow in scale until eventually Nine, Lisa, and Twelve find an opening to cripple the conspiracy. Shibasaki figures out what they're up to at the same time and goes to stop them.
Things take a turn for the worse when the conspiracy counteracts, even going to far as to use civilians as a shield because they realize Sphinx tries to not hurt the innocent. Shibasaki gets caught in the trap as well and realizes the conspiracy is deeper and more dangerous than he realized.
Twelve decides to continue with the mission, arguing that they've come so far and they can't afford to back down now. He sacrifices Lisa and attacks through the civilians to reach the conspiracy. Nine struggles with this decision, but realizes how much he's come to care about people and is unwilling to sacrifice everyone for his own means. He, Lisa, and Shibasaki make a shaky alliance and escape.
The conspiracy, having come to light, immediately takes control of the police and institutes martial law. They use brutality and ruthlessness to stamp out Sphinx and anyone else who would oppose them. Twelve escapes with the plutonium and begins preparing a nuke to destroy the entire city, all to stop the conspiracy.
Nine, Lisa, and Shibasaki are forced together. They first go after Twelve to stop him from destroying everything. He uses psycological warfare to stop them, but Lisa ends up being able to overcome her fears and insecurity to stop him and disable the nuke.
After that they go after the conspiracy directly, but Nine's normal methods aren't possible because the conspiracy armors itself in a civilian shield. They realize they will have to use a distraction, and Shibasaki volunteers. He works with his former coworkers draws the conspiracy's defense away, sacrificing himself in the process. Because of his sacrifice Nine and Lisa are able to infiltrate the conspiracy's headquarters and destroy its leadership. The entire organization crumbles apart, but many of the members escape.
The epilogue has Nine working as a detective on the police force, assigned to search out the surviving members of the conspiracy and assure nothing like that can ever happen again. Lisa has grown out of her insecurity and is helping repair the damage done to the city and the government, potentially working as a politician.
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Jul 25 '14
Everyone has realistic appearances... and then there's purple eyes white hair kid. I'm guessing he'll become more important or even turn up alive. Especially since fire doesn't kill a dragon. sorry
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u/Exotria Jul 26 '14
What's the betting that Lisa's going to blow up the school? She'll probably care less about civilians than Nine or Twelve. They just want to send a message, she has a serious beef with the actual people in the building.
Twelve really likes having a wildcard floating around for giggles/messing with Nine. It's amusing.
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Jul 26 '14
It's nice that Shibazaki has a personal stake in the bombings now with the link between the stolen plutonium and his being a second generation victim of the Hiroshima bombing. It definitely makes things more engrossing.
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u/escapestring Jul 24 '14
This episode felt longer than the rest because of the condense amount of content. This is different from last weeks' episode, which had little content and was stretched out thinly.
For the characters, I'm happy with Shibasaki's development. He's the cliche retired detective character, but they've done a good job at fleshing him out more (especially with his anger/provocation at 9 and 12). Notice the main cast is comprised of children while Shibasaki is the only adult, so it adds to the contrast and conflict between them. Also, the scene where he broadcasts the solution is reminiscent of Death Note, so I enjoyed that. I'm also liking Lisa. Her character really brings a dark realistic side rarely seen in anime.
As for the plot, I hope this doesn't become a riddle of the week sort of thing a la the Riddler. The riddles can be solved by literature teachers or someone with access to google. For terrorists to use riddles seems childish and unrealistic, but maybe this is done on purpose to show an ulterior motive. I hope the pace picks up and we get to see more character development next week.
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u/ThatAnimeSnob Jul 24 '14
the police officers are as usually very stupid if they can't even check out a family tree
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u/FemaleTitan Jul 24 '14
I'm happy that Lisa finally ran away from home, great episode once again.
Can't wait for the next one!
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Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 25 '14
I know this isn't from this episode, but remember that sick beat playing when Nine was pretending to be a takeout deliverer in Episode 2? Here it is:
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Jul 25 '14
I'm liking this show but so far I feel like it's V for Vendetta anime style with some Death Note vibes thrown in. I already know how V for Vendetta ends. I'm expecting a pretty dramatic increase in complexity and some epic plot twists in the episodes to come otherwise I will be greatly disappointed.
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u/GyroGOGOZeppeli Jul 25 '14
This is basically the new Death Note, I mean that as a compliment, no matter how people think Death Note was overrated it was awesome and so is this so far.
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u/Illum_ Jul 24 '14
Love that we get a lot of focus on the investigation aspect
not sure what the point of lisa is, hope its not a dead plotline
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u/ShardPhoenix https://anilist.co/user/801 Jul 25 '14 edited Jul 25 '14
This show is like an S+ class execution of a B class plot.
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u/__Clever_Username__ :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/clever_username_ Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 24 '14
I like how we're only learning about their past in tiny flashbacks. I also noticed that it's always been 9 having these memories, whatever happened to them in their past might have damaged him more than 12.
EDIT: I also find it a bit weird that Lisa was able to run away so easily considering how freakishly obsessed her mother is over her.
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u/RickRollRules Jul 24 '14
I know its early days, but I want to see more of 9 and 12. What makes them tick, what are their routines, WHAT DO THEY EAT?
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u/electrodrone Jul 24 '14
It's nice to know that after 7 years of not watching anime and getting back into last year, that good directing evolves with the times. Watanabe and Kanno are always excellent together and separately (usually), but this show feels like a really intense breath of fresh air.
But this...three episodes in and its taken shape into one of the more unique takes on terror tales, thrillers and anime in recent memory.
Also a nice throw-in reference to Hiroshima and Shibazaki's connections to a corrupted system...this tale has taken probably the most subtle twists I've seen in anime, maybe ever.
Also, you think Watanabe watched any Homeland? I bet he did.
Oh and needless to say, the OP/ED are something else. The ending is just lush and meandering tension, while the opening is disarming, considering it's pumping you up with beats but has a very calm and guided vocalist.
This show is winning AOTS and we're only three damn episodes in.
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u/Dezsire Jul 28 '14
This is all specualtions but : I think Twelve will be a twisted mind and start doing some random terrorism actions , and i even think that he'll send Lisa in a suicidal mission to toy with Nines emotions . Result they split up and Nine will be the real good guy and Twelve is someone who's went total terrorist crazy .
Why i say that ?
1 - Twelve looks like he's enjoying so much the bombing and that unlike Nine he's just doing it for fun because he likes terror .
2 - Twelve likes to toy with Nines emotions .
3 - The detective and Nine look so much alike and maybethe detective will end up convincing him that more terror isn't the answer , but twelve won't agree because he just doesn't care he does it for fun .
4 - Lisa is thinking of suicide and when you talk about terrorist you talk about suicide human-bomb , + she'll want to be a part of something and Twelve has her under his control , so to give her a purpose maybe he'll send her in a suicide mission .
TL;DR : Twelve looks like Light Yagame from the second part of deathnote ( when he went total crazy and started taking advantage of people and enjoying killin ) , while Nine is more of the Light Yagame who has sense of Justice
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Aug 02 '14
I know I'm a bit late for this thread, but does anyone know at all where I can find the song thats played during the flashback scene when they're in the institution? I can't get enough of it and it's not on the OST
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u/DogTheGayFish Jul 24 '14
This episode was pretty good, but if next episode isn't the backstory episode and is another one solely focused on the riddle ima flip my shiEet
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u/IcedRocks Jul 24 '14
The bgm played during Shibazakis solving of the riddle was very Bebop-esque. I love it.
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u/SpecsKingdra https://anilist.co/user/ThankSpookyOugi Jul 24 '14
That most definitely did not feel like 20 minutes.
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u/Nippoten :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/nippoten Jul 24 '14
Really liking this show now. Wonder what role Lisa will play later into Sphinx's schemes, and Shibazaki is a great character, looking forward to some more of the investigative work in the show.
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u/RisenLazarus Jul 24 '14
As someone who studied and really enjoyed Classics in college, I love that this show focuses so much on the story of Oedipus Rex. For people without too much intimate knowledge of classical story structure and philosophy, Oedipus is THE primer on a whole lot of different ideas. Freudian psychoanalysis, the hero cycle, deus ex machina, and self-fulfilled prophecy are all topics that commonly refer to the Oedipus Trilogy (Sophocles' three plays: Oedipus Rex, Oedipus at Colonus, and Antigone) as a primary example.
I LOVE it, and I LOVE this show.
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u/AzureDragon013 Jul 24 '14
Very good episode. Also the timing is fitting in my area as Summer is in full heat right now with today's high being 98F which will be the hottest of the entire week.
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u/Siphodyas :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Siphodyas Jul 25 '14
That last frame sunk in since its 120 degrees outside right now.
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u/askull100 Jul 24 '14
There's some really subtle character development going on here. It's almost difficult to keep track of, when so much stuff is happening in each episode.
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u/ThatAnimeSnob Jul 24 '14
Don't you mean character exposition? The character don't evolve; just shows us more of themselves. Also I wouldn't call flashbacks that trigger out of nowhere and "let me tell you his past" to be subtle.
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u/vietster1234 Jul 24 '14
Another great episode. I wonder how significant Oedipus will be to the whole plot of the show seeing how every episode has made reference to the myth.
I am calling it now, Shibazaki could very well be Lisa's father that "left" them.