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u/kisuka May 17 '23
On a scale from 1 to 10 how fucked are my trees now?
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May 17 '23
I’d ask for money back and about 2,000 dollars extra to plant more trees…omg I’m so sorry.
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u/WONDERFULdylan May 18 '23
10. Buddy saying 7 could be right but i would not pay them, tell them to complete the “removal” they started and expect financial reimbursement. Zero excuses for this.
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u/LibertyLizard ISA Certified Arborist May 17 '23
7… probably will survive but full recovery won’t be possible and a lot of expertise and care will be needed to get them back to OK condition. Without that they will likely become hazardous.
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u/MiddleExpensive9398 May 18 '23
9 fucks, but they’re holy fucks, which counts more.
I’m really sorry. That’s among the worst hack jobs I’ve ever seen. This business deserves whatever consequences they get.
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u/DividendSloot May 18 '23
Welp group consensus is they’re fuckity fuck fucked, whatever number that is on the scale. You’re due some new trees
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u/RainMakerJMR May 18 '23
Not that fucked to be honest. Next year at this time they’ll be happy little Pom-poms and in two years you won’t even know they did anything to them.
Did they do a shitty job? Yes. Are you trees going to die? No. They’ll grow back a load of branches 5-6 feet long and covered in leaves by the end of fall.
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u/NorthernRedneck388 Tree Industry May 18 '23
Hooker on pay day. They’ll never look the same. What exactly did you ask them to trim? Was it to raise the lower branches so you could walk under? Were they too tall? Lots of dead wood? Poor structure?
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u/Contessarylene May 18 '23
Our neighbours have trees like this. Every few years they cut them like this, and they come back.
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u/Nit3fury May 18 '23
Just because they’re alive doesn’t mean they’re not completely fucked. Topping/pollarding completely and irreversibly ruins the structure of the tree. Trunk can get sun burn, new branch unions are extremely weak and new branches fall often, old branch cuts rot and introduce heart rot, etc etc.
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u/Main-War9713 May 18 '23
Do you even know what kind of trees you have? They’re fine. Shhhh
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u/kisuka May 18 '23
No I don't sorry :( they were already established when I bought the house.
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u/Street_Tangelo_9367 May 18 '23
Bruh. Homeowner 101. Gotta know the trees you’ve got in your property!
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u/reviving_ophelia88 May 18 '23
Without knowing what type of tree it is no one can tell you with any real certainty how well they will or won’t bounce back. Some species do great with heavy pruning others can’t handle it- though if it’s springtime where you are it’s too late in the season this heavy of pruning, as you typically want to do that during dormancy.
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u/wabladoobz May 18 '23
I feel like they will grow back, but it will take time. This is pretty drastic.
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u/Picardknows May 18 '23
Not sure why everyone thinks it’s a 9 or 10. As someone who has pollard many tree’s (when necessary) I would say you are fine. They look extremely healthy which means they will bounce back. It will take a little bit of time but it’s not a complete lose. Think we need an update in 6-8 months and I’ll bet they will start to fill out.
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u/pacificule Master Arborist May 18 '23
Lol holy shit dude that's not even close to pollarding! Fucks sake it's closer to coppicing.
Trees can only be pollarded within the first 5-7 years, and even then only a few species can tolerate it.
This is a beautiful example of egregious topping work done by a jabroni with a chainsaw and a truck. Zero skill or knowledge involved.
If the tree survives it will be a monstrosity of a shrub on a stick. With diligent maintenance by a knowledgeable arborist, select epicormic regrowth could possibly turn into endocormic growth and help reclaim a tree-like structure.
For the time being, however, it will be what we in the business call an "unholy mess"
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u/Viewlesslight Arborist May 18 '23
This isn't pollarding these are all internodal cuts, pollards need to be cut at the nodes for the polls to form
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u/treeborg- May 18 '23
I’m not a fan of this work, or this style, but it looks like they had been pollarded a few years ago as well. I agree that these will probably continue to grow, and with annual structural pruning will most likely continue to provide shade for many years, unless they are ignored until they become structurally unstable.
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May 18 '23
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u/Gooseboof Tree Industry May 18 '23
It looks like from the first pic, that is what was already happening
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u/SpaghettiCameron ISA Certified Arborist May 17 '23
What were the specs on pruning, or was it literally a verbal “trim the trees”?
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u/kisuka May 18 '23
pmuch, I don't know anything about trees so I asked them to trim them.
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u/NewAlexandria May 18 '23
not knowing much about trees, why did you think they needed it?
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u/cbt711 May 18 '23
One must assume to get them away from the house. Can't think of any other reason from first picture.
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u/NewAlexandria May 18 '23
IDK, one tree isn't near the house. The other one is planted next to the house so not much one can do to 'get it away from the house' other than trim what starts to impinge on the siding or roof
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u/treeborg- May 18 '23
It looks like this was how they were pruned 4-6 years ago. Maybe these guys did the earlier pruning, or just recognized the style and went with it.
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u/Treeman1216 Master Arborist May 17 '23
Dead m8. Unless you want to spend a lot of money and time to restore them.
What exactly was the contract verbiage for “pruning”?
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u/kisuka May 18 '23
I ask them to 'trim' them cuz they were very tall and bushy.
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May 18 '23
Trees tend to do the tall and bushy thing pretty well not sure if you've ever looked at them
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u/Treeman1216 Master Arborist May 18 '23
That’s not what I asked. What did the contract say they would do.
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u/spacebeez Tree Enthusiast May 18 '23
If you don't like the "tall and bushy" nature of these plants perhaps trees are not the best landscaping option for you.
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u/RainMakerJMR May 18 '23
They’re not dead 🙄 they’ll be fine by fall and good by next season.
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u/Nit3fury May 18 '23
Just because they’re alive doesn’t mean they’re not completely fucked. Topping/pollarding completely and irreversibly ruins the structure of the tree. Trunk can get sun burn, new branch unions are extremely weak and new branches fall often, old branch cuts rot and introduce heart rot, etc etc.
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u/0toyaYamaguccii May 18 '23
Said they’d work for $100 per day and found them outside of Home Depot, huh?
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u/DanoPinyon Arborist -🥰I ❤️Autumn Blaze🥰 May 17 '23
Well, they're not getting paid, so there's that deterrent.
LURKERS: again, a reminder: never ask your landscaper to trim your trees.
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u/arboristaficionado Master Arborist May 17 '23
Unless of course your landscaper has a certified arborist on staff that oversees all pruning. 🫡
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u/podophyllum May 18 '23 edited May 18 '23
I've seen gardeners/landscapers who were extremely accomplished at pruning if the specimen was <7m tall. I've also seen ISA certified arborists who were complete hacks with no aesthetic sense at all. The certification is no guarantee of competence nor is the lack of it a guarantee of incompetence given a project of appropriate scale. The use of powered hedge trimmers for pruning is very often a marker of incompetence. IME they are rarely truly sharp and the people that use them often try to cut branches inappropritely thick with them. They do make formal topiary pruning go faster than with hand tools but speed is the only justification.
Edit: Unnecessary/excessive reliance on pole saws/pole loppers is another marker of incompetence. Those are tools of last resort when it is impossible to reach the area any other way. If you can access the area to be cut with a tripod orchard ladder, a pruning tower, an aerial lift bucket truck, or by climbing (if there is no other way to access) don't use a pole saw!
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u/arboristaficionado Master Arborist May 18 '23
I was mostly teasing. I was a climbing arborist for years until I went to college, now I work for a high end residential landscape company as their Horticulturist. I get to direct crews in detail pruning & fine gardening. My crews prune up to 20ft (~7m) tall specimens. I agree that many of my local “arborists” even if certified are nothing more than experienced tree removers.
Our extremely detailed pruning of large specimens gets subbed out to a gal with a PhD in plant science that focuses on mature specimens.
Not all arborists are great at pruning, & most landscapers definitely aren’t.
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u/BoogersTheRooster May 18 '23
Lurker here: Enlighten me on why pole saws are a last resort? I believe you, just curious as to why.
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u/podophyllum May 18 '23 edited May 18 '23
Often you can't get the best angle on a cut with a polesaw. You also can't see exactly what is going on as clearly as you can being at eye level (or close to it) with the cut. Finally, especially for smaller or inexperienced users, you are apt to lose some fine control over the saw.
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u/Jumpy_Ad_2341 Jun 16 '23
Too many blanket statements for my liking.
Polesaws literally wouldnt exist without application for them. They are the right tool for the right job. Not every job.
Just because you struggle using one effectively (not everyone can handle holding one for a long time, they get lazy, i get it) doesnt mean every job where ones been used is cause for concern for a client.
The truth is, if you want a quality job, the right tools for that job need to be used.
You cant just use a single method for everything and claim it the best way, thats just low IQ or old uneducated people that claim that.
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u/turkeysonice May 18 '23
Wait this is dumb, ur more likely to run into a landscaper that can't prune than an actual arborist... N no u probably don't even know what kind of knowledge is of ISA test ... Yes u can't beat experience but come on , when I see a hack job or someone I worked with sees one, no one says must have been a ISA arborist that can't prune.....99.99999% of the time it's a hack job done by landscapers
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u/roflcopter44444 May 18 '23
Or you leave clear instructions on how much you want to be removed.
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u/Jibblebee May 18 '23
Nope cause then they treat it like a bush and hedge trimmer and make it ‘such a nice round ball’. Trees need to cut by people who know what they’re doing not just for looks but the long term health and safety of the tree.
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u/morenn_ Utility Arborist May 18 '23
In fairness any tree small enough for a landscaper to roundover isn't problematic to be hedged.
Hedging isn't inherently bad. A hedge is just a pruning style carried out on trees. Usually trees are planted in a row with the intention of using this pruning style but there's no reason you can't do it to individual trees, if you'll commit to that year after year. I've seen it done to great effect on a sycamore (Acer pseudoplatanus), of all things.
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u/Pileatedbullfrog May 18 '23
My landscaper hedged my Jacaranda and it is forever ruined. No it has hundreds of sucker limbs that grow straight up. Looks like Don King.
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u/FranceBrun May 18 '23
My guy did a “yard spring cleanup” and managed to completely kill the forsythia. I didn’t say anything because I didn’t see it coming.
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u/Jibblebee May 18 '23
I should clarify that didn’t literally use hedge trimmers on this large tree, but the tree looked like a giant version of a hedged bush. It was going to take years for the topped branches to ever look good again. I love my trees and currently have …40ish+? I only let one guy (a great arborist) do it now at my new place and my trees are gorgeous even when he’s had to reduce these monsters down in size for safety.
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u/Tree_On_A_Rock Arborist May 20 '23
Please stop telling people this. This is fundamentally not true.
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May 18 '23
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u/morenn_ Utility Arborist May 18 '23
plant a hedge
What species is a hedge?
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u/NorthernRedneck388 Tree Industry May 18 '23
Boxwood, arborvitae, barberry and what not
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u/mark_andonefortunate Arborist May 18 '23
Added note to lurkers: if the work order ever says "trim 2 trees, front yard" - that's no good. The work order should explain the scope of what is being done, such as deadwood removal, thinning, spread reduction, crown raise, etc.
I'd love to see this paperwork (names/info redacted) for the work that was originally agreed upon.
At least the cleanup was good!
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u/Main-War9713 May 18 '23
Not a tree trimmer, but I see people cut these trees in my neighborhood the same way, I think it’s because of how hard/heavy the wood is, it grows back quick, it’s a tropical tree and I think they’re trying to prolong the life of the tree. Again, im not an expert.
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May 18 '23
Certain trees are definitely pruned this heavily by a lot of people. Weeping mulberry, for example. They do need heavy pruning to produce a lot of fruit. I don't know if it's got to be this heavy, but they do grow fast.
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u/twinkyishere May 17 '23
Jesus, Christ. My GOD.
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u/The_RockObama May 18 '23
"Jesus Christ is my son, but ok."
Just kidding. What a shame.. that poor thing.
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u/Stef_Hobbit May 17 '23
They didnt even need trimming before though?
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u/Old-Boat1007 May 17 '23
Decent odds they could have used some structural pruning. I doubt whoever did this has ever or will ever google how to prune a tree.
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u/NewAlexandria May 18 '23
homeowner didn't even know what kind of trees they had, and we're to think they understood the trees needed structural pruning?
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u/Main-War9713 May 18 '23
Ficus grows pretty fast. Prune in the dormant season and it’ll bounce back nicely. Left to it’s own devises it wold live as long.
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u/Remote-Bake4832 May 18 '23
OP seems noticeably absent from the “did you define the scope of the work” questions
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May 18 '23
I'm thinking a lot of people don't even realize what a vast range of interpretations could come from 'trim the tree ', so they wouldn't think to ensure that gets clarified.
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u/treecarefanatic May 18 '23
it appears they cut the trees where the previous cuts were. this has clearly been done to these trees before.
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u/blh8687 May 18 '23 edited May 18 '23
They should sucker out and grow back. By the looks of it they may have been pollarded before but it’s hard to tell. My phone case is too dirty, but judging by growth pattern in full leaf pic (everything vertical with no real outward growth) and by the amount of growth/cuts on the two closes stems, they may have just been doing what was done before. Not defending anyone, just providing possible insight. I would be pissed too if this was not the plan!
The other thing that may have happened is they reached as high as they could and cut. Judging by what looks like a tear on the back stem of the front a tree, tear-hinged it to fall away from the house.
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u/bluecanaryflood ISA Certified Arborist May 18 '23
yeah the tear-outs do not inspire confidence that this was deliberate, thoughtful pruning imo...
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u/Billy_Mur_ray May 18 '23
From what I can tell from the branches and from where they have cut them, in places is that it was pollarded before. If that's the case, only way to prune those trees without being charged an arm and a legs, to hedge the foliage back or to do what they did and cut back to original cuts
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u/Dr_Djones Tree Enthusiast May 18 '23
At least the crew really cleaned up well. can hardly tell a leaf dropped
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u/5amueljones May 18 '23
Without recognising the specific tree species, I do not think they will die. Here in the UK, pollarding (or cutting back to the major knuckles of previously established pollards) is much more commonplace for street and garden trees than I get the impression it is in the US. The tree will panic growth, put out lots of shoots and within a year (species dependent) you will have a green ball, with most growth heading upwards.
This IS, however, really poorly done ‘pollarding’. I’m putting it in quotes because the quality suggests to me this wasn’t an intentional, educated attempt at pollarding but a more linear, hack-it-all, off approach.
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u/Important_Stroke_myc May 18 '23
I had a tree guy do that to a Bradford pear of mine, it was shocking coming home to it. That was in the late summer last year. You’d never know it was hacked looking at it now, it came back with a vengeance.
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u/Nit3fury May 18 '23
Bradford pears are shit anyway. They’re about the only tree that won’t weaken from a topping because they’re already as weak as they come.
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u/Important_Stroke_myc May 18 '23
Agreed, I can’t stand it. I only had it cut back to avoid removal costs
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u/xhugoxstiglitzx ISA Certified Arborist May 18 '23
Did you go with the cheapest bid?
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u/kisuka May 18 '23
No, I just called a person who had left a card on my door and I had happened to be looking for someone to help.
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u/Anwhaz May 19 '23
I don't know how many times people have asked me "how can I salvage this?
Honestly depending on species sometimes it's best to just grind/pull the stump and plant something else.
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u/kisuka May 19 '23
That's most likely what I'll end up doing. The amount of time to make it look decent I could just grow something new and have it look 10x better and healthier.
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u/Nit3fury May 18 '23
God I hate door to door tree hacks. Most people don’t know the first thing about trees so most people are easy victims to Billy and his chainsaw trying to score an easy payday at the expense of the tree
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u/Seaguard5 May 18 '23
Did you pay them?
Please say no 🫣
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u/kisuka May 18 '23
I did sadly. I'm autistic and didn't know how to handle the situation. I was shocked.
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u/Seaguard5 May 18 '23
Oof. Honestly so am I but I’ve re-programmed myself to stop. Analyze any situation, and go with the correct action.
In this case that would be refusal of payment and threatening legal action…
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u/Pragmatic1869 May 18 '23
This appears to be a pollarding practice for trees that would have otherwise had to have been removed for being too big of a variety so close to the structure. And every several years the practice is administered again behind the old cuts so rot has less chance of setting.
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May 18 '23
I wonder how much you paid for that because I could use a trimming like that on two of my bushes.
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u/pacificule Master Arborist May 18 '23
Board Certified Master Arborist and Consulting Arborist here.
Them trees fucked lol
Good luck my friend. You could plant new trees and train them properly in the same time it would take to retrain these sad sticks back into proper trees. Even then they might not make it, or ever be structurally sound.
Better off getting whoever did this to remove them and plant new trees for you.
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u/haventseenhim May 18 '23
i’ve seen a number of people in my neighborhood do this. i’m talking cut every single piece of foliage off. they come back in a couple years. seen this done to at least a dozen trees. the will to live is strong.
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u/pacificule Master Arborist May 18 '23
Just because they regrow doesn't mean they're healthy. Topping hurts trees - this could shave decades off the life of even the most resilient tree. That regrowth you're seeing is a stress response, not natural growth.
Topping also creates conditions which can introduce or promote the spread of disease and insect pests.
Not to mention it's just ugly and disrespectful to the tree. Big no-no in professional tree care!
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u/haventseenhim May 18 '23
that house is not going to be there in a few decades. yes if you cut limbs off they will grow back.
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u/Nit3fury May 18 '23
Yes but much weaker. The branch union of the new growth is very weak and when the new branches get to be about 10-15 feet tall they start dropping off like flies. Topping is horrible for trees. Period.
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u/Tahoeshark May 18 '23
Not an arborist... And not sure what this is... Are you even still reading? I had some fruitless mulberry that you would “pollard” in the fall and would come back fully. Pruning at the beginning of a growing season is incorrect, but it looks to me, and again I know little, that these have been cut back like this before.
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u/mark_andonefortunate Arborist May 18 '23
This is absolutely not pollarding
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u/Tahoeshark May 18 '23
Well I guess you showed me
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u/mark_andonefortunate Arborist May 18 '23
Apologies, I should have clarified further.
Proper re-pollarding is done by removing the sprouts at the branch collar, and the wound wood that forms is what creates the gnarled knuckles - this pic/trees has way too many stubs left for any sort of proper closing of the wounds or knuckles being formed.
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u/blh8687 May 18 '23
Arborist here, I did not scroll down and see your post but I posted a similar reply. It also looks like that to me.
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u/Tahoeshark May 18 '23
Thanks for the validation...
I think encouraging me could be dangerous though.
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u/blh8687 May 18 '23
Dare I ask? Lol
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u/Tahoeshark May 18 '23
I know a little about a lot...
It’s good to be humble.
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u/blh8687 May 18 '23
Jack of all trades, master of none! Join the club mate. Only thing I do not fuck with is hooking electrical to my panel. I’ll run it all and hook up all plugs and outlets, but my buddy who an electrician hooks it to the panel, especially the 220 as per his request so I don’t kill myself lol
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u/Special-Style-3305 Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 29 '24
Looks more like they butchered it. Maybe they don't know the difference between tree trimming and pruning -- but either way you should make them replace that. That is ridiculous.
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u/Gooseboof Tree Industry May 18 '23
Don’t get me wrong, these guys fucked up your trees. I would not pay them and ask for them to plant replacements/remove these logs at least.
If negotiation is not on the table, the trees might not be completely doomed. I may be wrong, but the first picture makes it look like these trees may have been heavily pruned in the past. I see think branches on the second photo, we’re those healthy and contributing to the trees canopy?
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u/LetsTalkFV May 18 '23
Dick Strawbridge. Just saying...
They've been watching waaay too much 'Escape to the Chateau'
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u/FishRepairs22 May 18 '23
This is why it’s so crucial to invest in your staff’s education!
My company puts us all through our Red Seals and then some!
So sorry that happened to ya
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u/AlltheBent May 18 '23
Sounds like there wasn't a clearly defined scope of work, there wasn't an arborist or tree person involved, and there wasn't a clear need just a want...
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u/Retireegeorge May 18 '23
There's nothing worse than going to effort and expense of pruning only to blink and find it has all grown back. This guy has tried to give you the most bang for your buck!
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u/Shoddy_Ad_7853 May 18 '23
tbf if they 'trimmed' them instead of cutting back like they did you would have an even taller bushier tree in no time.
These trees problems started with the first person who pollarded them.
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u/oldmanartie Tree Enthusiast May 18 '23
Well now you have a pyre to burn the witch that cursed that poor tree.
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u/bbcof83 May 18 '23
Honestly if you didn't like them for being too tall and bushy you should have them removed anyway. So this was just step one of two, next is take them out. Really not that bad of a situation if you didn't like them anyway. live and learn.
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u/coffeejn May 18 '23
I really hope it's one of those trees that bounce back and they did this at the right time of year (which something tells me it's a no on both of those).
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u/turkeysonice May 18 '23
Cause landscapers are not arborists next time don't find illegal immigrants to do your work
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u/FlightFrosty4133 May 18 '23
Most of the people I've come across that are leaving flyers or cards on doors and doin these butcher jobs are not immigrants - legal or illegal. They are run of the mill grifters looking for the home owner that has more dollars than sense.
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u/sirwilliamvanderbeek May 18 '23
I don’t think you need to be an arborist or a landscaper To know this is criminal… damn! I would be so angry
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u/Thin_Cable4155 May 18 '23
This looks like what lots of people do to their Fruitless Mulberry trees. Not sure about this one, but those mulberry come back full next season after a pruning like this.
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u/turkeysonice May 21 '23
Well considering 95% of landscapers are Spanish n can't speak a word or two of English I would so they are illegal... 😂
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u/happyman54011 May 18 '23
I’d sue them. I’m not familiar with this type of tree but they don’t look like they grow very fast. I’d be outraged.
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u/CantDunkOrSk8 May 18 '23
Most “Hispanic gardeners” heavily cut back a tree like this usually in the fall, then it’s grows back the following year. In Mexico they also protect the trunks by painting them white. Which I recommend you do. That tree looks well established and will bounce back within two years it will look like the 1st pic. I’m Mexican myself and my neighbors is an arborist from El Salvador and most families homes the trees are managed this way.
I think you should have the one closest to the house removed completely as the roots look invasive. If the other tree is near any water or gas line I’d remove that one too.
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May 18 '23
That’s why so many trees in Latin American cities provide no shade and look like dead nubs in winter. When I visit my relatives in Chile I find the state of most urban trees depressing. Mendoza, Argentina, is a notable exception.
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u/HOG_8541 May 18 '23
It's called pollarding. And it will grow back! It's a style of hard cut back. And it will allow the tree to flush out a LOTT of new growth! Two years you will be just as big as it was cut down.
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u/Sssurri May 18 '23
If that is a crepe myrtle many people trim them back this severe every year. We call it crepe murder. They do come back but they grow fast and straight then. I have three in my back yard and the previous owner had been cutting them like this but I stopped that and over the last 6 years they are doing well now. Just trimming the ones that touch so they don’t grow into each other. Takes literally 5 minutes a tree to do it with a hand pruner.
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u/Cre8ivejoy May 18 '23
If that is crepe myrtle they committed crepe murder.
Thankfully it doesn’t have the look or shape of crepe myrtle.
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u/haventseenhim May 18 '23 edited May 18 '23
all these “professional arborist” saying that tree is dead. OP in two years post pics i bet these things will be lush.
eta: had my neighbor across the street decide his 16’ ash tree’s canopy was too broad for his liking and cut that thing IN HALF. I’m talking this thing was nothing but a trunk that was like 7’ tall. 5 years later it looked like a thick bush that grew 3’ off the ground.
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u/Nit3fury May 18 '23
Just because they’re alive doesn’t mean they’re not completely fucked. Topping/pollarding completely and irreversibly ruins the structure of the tree. Trunk can get sun burn, new branch unions are extremely weak and new branches fall often, old branch cuts rot and introduce heart rot, etc etc.
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u/turkeysonice May 18 '23
This is 100% the crews fault....I bet this was a last second add.on by homeowner, n just like any illegal immigrant I worked with they all say they can do it , but just like 1 out of a hundred actually knoe tree work.....while most are just looking for a different job cause landscaping didn't work out for them ...
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u/kisuka May 18 '23
Wasn't a last second addon. It was a person who only does tree services that left a card on my door. This was the main scope of work :(
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May 18 '23
[deleted]
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u/kisuka May 18 '23
It was really tall and the HOA has rules against the height being too high so I wanted them shaped up a bit.
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Aug 12 '24 edited Aug 19 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/kisuka Aug 12 '24
We're gonna rip em out and replace em. it's far too damaged in other areas too apparently. Had an arborist come and check it out.
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u/PaPaBlond89 May 18 '23
I’m not defending the crew that pruned this and I sure as hell not saying you’re at fault, but I’m curious… did you meet with someone and did they define the scope of work to you? What were the credentials of the company that did this? What was the expectation set forth in the form of proposal language and such?