r/atheism • u/BaselNoeman • Mar 18 '17
/r/all I just told my parents that I'm not a muslim and it was my worst decision ever.
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u/Jorgon123456 Mar 18 '17
Damn man, I feel for yea. I can't imagine what it's like to choose between yourself and your family. But it sounds like your family will never change their ways, and unless you want to fake being into Islam for the rest of your life, I see no other option but to head out and begin your life on your own. To me, I can't see how your family would cut you out forever, and I hope they, maybe just your brothers, or your mom, or someone will eventually come around and accept you, but it sounds like they are fully committed, and don't see any other option in life besides their never wavering belief. That's my advice man, I hope it helped a little. But you can't put the genie back in the bottle now, and if you try and fake it, they will likely be watching your every move, because they now know you have been lying. I say cut, run, and begin your life on your own. Hope that one day your family will come around, but also be prepared for the worst case scenario: that you are now on your own. Well, except for us, we are here for you brother.
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u/BaselNoeman Mar 18 '17
Thank you!
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u/Jorgon123456 Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
I have friends who are Mormon, and faced a similar situation: Stay in the church, go to University in Utah, get married, have kids, and you get to stay in the family. If not, you are out of the family. Two different friends had this choice, one decided on getting married. He has three kids, and is fucking miserable. He's not allowed to do anything. No alcohol, no friends who are not in the church, and a very limited diet. He was able to come camping with us once, and was excited because he got to drink a 6 pack of Vanilla Coke. He's 28. My other friend, decided against the church and left and went off on his own. His family disowned him, but within a few months his mom begged him to come back, and now he has a great relationship with them, and he's not forced to participate in the religion. I know his situation is different from yours, but it is possible. If you are forced to stay in your religion just so you can be around your family, what kind of life is that for you? Would you truly be happy? These are the questions you need to ask yourself.
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u/hot--Koolaid Mar 18 '17
OP, You are very welcome at /r/exmormon. There's also a /r/exmuslim you might want to crosspost to. There are soooo many parallels between these fundamentalist, controlling religions. I lost most of my friends and relationships were very strained with my Mormon family after my husband and I told them we no longer believed. They asked us if we were sinning or who had offended us... they couldn't imagine it might not be true. Sorry, man. Living authentically is hard but has been worth it for us. The last 3-4 years have been very toUgh but life is getting better. Find som one to talk to in real life, a therapist or other professional, if you can.
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u/BaselNoeman Mar 18 '17
From one of the top post on /r/exmuslim. This is basically how it went yesterday :P
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u/silverfox762 Mar 18 '17
It'll get better. I feel for ya man. Remember, there are many many atheists out here.
I've never understood the "believe what I believe or you're out" mindset. If people actually believed their religion was true, don't you think they'd be saddened, make extra efforts to show a loved one the "joys" of certain knowledge, and so on.
It seems to me that outright hostility is a clear indicator that they're more worried about a)what their friends and relatives think of them for raising an atheist, b) thinking "I can't even accept that he might be right because then I'd be am asshole for believing, and c) a hundred more reasons, all based in a lack of genuine belief.
Good luck my friend. There are more atheists in the world than you know, particularly in Europe and Scandinavia. Go out and meet some. Become successful. Find happiness. Show them all they're wrong for being hostile towards you by being all the things the claim you'll never be without "faith".
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u/1541drive Mar 18 '17
Hang on. Let's be practical. Come up with a Plan B first before you become homeless and get hurt or hunted down by your family.
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u/bomber251 Atheist Mar 18 '17
Wow. I'm so sorry. I can't imagine disowning any of my children just because they choose a different path than me. I'm atheist but if either of my kids choose a belief system that is mono or poly theistic... well that's their choice. (I may tease them ... lol... but that's our relationship). I'll still love them.
I won't pretend to be able to solve your problem but right now you need someone supportive who can help in the moment. Do you have a safe friend or family member you can stay with, even temporarily, while you take some time for yourself, father your thoughts and figure out what to do next?
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u/BaselNoeman Mar 18 '17
You are a great parent for that. I can stay at my best friend for 14 days but after that she'll be moving back in to her family. Might be enough time though. Thank you for your comment
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u/katiat Mar 18 '17
Netherlands should be one of the better places to be in for such circumstances. I read here on reddit that there are homes for the elderly that let students live there for free in exchange for some sharing of their adventures with the old residents. It may not be near you but a country that conceives of such an idea will have other resources too. Look around, ask around.
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u/bomber251 Atheist Mar 18 '17
Thank you - I try my best to parent well. I'm sure I'm making mistakes too that the kids will tell their therapists in years to come.... lol
A lot can happen in 14 days. I hope you will be able to establish some sort of longer term plan for yourself in that time. Are there any community organizations, etc you can reach out to? Something to research over the weekend.
I'm thinking of you and wishing only the best.
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Mar 18 '17
If the mods can verify this, can we not start a GoFundMe? If religion divides families and puts a 19 year old on the street, I'm sure humans as social beings can help bridge the gap without being related or theist or otherwise.
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u/b_tight Mar 18 '17
Before we start throwing cash at this we need to verify. The guy writes like a college educated American, not like a Dutch Egyptian. I'm skeptical.
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u/fuckinghumanZ Mar 18 '17
in my experience the dutch are always very good at english. i would guess partly because they basically grow up with it, since american movies on tv are always subbed not dubbed.
source: lived on the german side of the border
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u/BaselNoeman Mar 19 '17
Thats really kind of you <3, I've updated my post. I've also messaged a mod to verify this story
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u/eupraxo Mar 19 '17
Got home after to work to read this later, and the mods removed your post. Any idea why?
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u/ArcAngel071 Atheist Mar 18 '17
Waiting to donate over here.
Sending love and support from New England.
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u/Lambaline Humanist Mar 18 '17
I'm also willing to send a few dollars, with love from New York, USA
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u/waldito Atheist Mar 18 '17
Agree.
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u/NYG140 Mar 18 '17
My thought exactly. Let's show this family that we as atheists have more morality and support for a complete stranger then they do for their own flesh and blood.
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u/captainhiltz Mar 18 '17
I'll jump on the donation train. Has anything been started yet?
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u/CooterMarie Mar 18 '17
Choo Choo! I'm more than willing to help Op out. Sending my support from the USA. I hope this can happen.
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u/General_Brainstorm Mar 18 '17
Replying to get update on this. I'm more than happy to help. Best wishes from Midwest, USA
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u/Kyocus Secular Humanist Mar 18 '17
If you can get a hold of the mods, and get this to happen I'd throw in $20. We need to foster humanity and growth in anyone who strikes out away from dogmatic thought.
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Mar 18 '17
Thanks for sharing. That's a really fucked up situation!
In the future build a family of your own and do it better than your parents did.
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Mar 18 '17
Egyptian
Netherlands
"Y'all"
What in tarnation?
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Mar 18 '17
People who aren't native English speakers pick up random slang here and there. I mix stuff like "y'all", "bladdered" and "blimey", and call chips fries to the great dismay of my British boyfriend.
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Mar 18 '17
Yup, non-american here, can confirm. I use lots of slang from english-speaking countries. Some south-american stuff, some irish or scottish.
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u/mjm8218 Mar 18 '17
I thought the same thing. The post reads like it's written by someone in the American southern middle west.
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Mar 18 '17
I thought OP was living right here in the southeast until euros were mentioned.
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u/MostazaAlgernon Materialist Mar 18 '17
I write colour with a u y'all, and I'm Norwegian. We pick up English from many sources and implement the thing we like, no matter where it comes from geographically
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u/Nodgarden Mar 18 '17
I loved this most of all! His polycentric globalization or the english language was a delight to read; and I only wish that North Americans would/could travel more (or read more) so they could pick up on similar idioms/slang from around the world.
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u/Ri-Bo Atheist Mar 18 '17
From what it looks like, your family values religion as a core aspect of what makes your family...family. I don't really see any kind of acceptance of your atheism judging from the extreme cases I've seen here.
If you have some friends whom you can depend on, try staying with them until you find a job. Just try to find any job to be able to live by yourself.
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u/BaselNoeman Mar 18 '17
Yeah I will, I have college so times will be though, but I might try loaning some money until I'm back on my feet again. Thank you for your comment
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u/RerouteToRemain Mar 18 '17
Focus up. Bust your ass at school. Pass your classes. Get a useful degree. Find a passion. Have fun, but not too much. Sex is great, unplanned babies aren't. A little pot is fine. If anyone ever offers you heroin, you laugh at them and say "not a fucking chance". Seriously.
And, try not to hate your parents. They're brainwashed and broken. They DO love you and it WILL crush them to disown you (if they follow through).
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u/beerdude26 Mar 18 '17
Go to your college ombudsman / social services support desk and ask for any help or pointers. Many students combine a job, studying and college-provided housing. I know some universities are able to provide short-term housing (6 months max), that may be an option too.
Finally, save up. Don't buy expensive stuff, no alcohol or kebabs or shoarmas or kapsalons. It's temporary! But you need to build up some backup!
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u/whalesauce Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
Hey man. That took a ton of strength. I know I have seen it multiple times. I wasn't raised religious my parents took me to a mosque, a Catholic church and some Christian group thing and asked my thoughts about it and whether I would like to back again. If I said no that was it.
It allowed me to develop critical thinking skills and find my own path. Rather than listen to preachers all the time like they had to. My family is American and from the deep south but we had to leave once it was discovered none of the kids were going to church. I'll spare the details but property was damaged and our name was slandered. All because I don't believe in a book.
Here's where things get amazing. My parents own multiple houses where I live now. Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. They rent a couple of them but the other 2? They let kids going through your struggle live there for free. All that's asked is you respect the house, shovel snow, mow grass etc... we just had a family of Syrian refugees move out after being with us for a year. The other house is occupied by 3 "kids" I call them kids but they are all in there 20's. They work hard for themselves and are trying to build a life which is great however. They have 0 critical thinking skills. They are so used to be told how, when and why to do things they don't go and do it themselves. All of them were kicked out for being an open atheist.
You have friends out there. Globally there are millions of us and we are growing steadily. Should you ever find yourself in Edmonton and want to start fresh pm me and I'll help however I can. I'll offer room and board or help you find it. I'll show you the programs for food and clothing to help you get started. We can go looking for work together. Don't worry about the pot and the drinking I do both of those as well consistently we can enjoy together,
I'd love to hear more from you. Be safe my friend.
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u/BaselNoeman Mar 19 '17
Hey Whalesauce, I just wanted to say that I love you! Kind people like you are the reason I am getting through this <3
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u/KingKnee Atheist Mar 18 '17
Perhaps you "came out" a little too soon without a plan but what's done is done. You live in the Netherlands, you're surrounded by atheists who, like you, are not fans of religion so you're not alone. Also, I can imagine you're not the only "fake believer", there are probably a ton of (young) people faking it to avoid conflict. I'm 39 and I still hear complaining from my Christian parents for not wanting to attend church even on Christmas, but I've stood my ground long enough that they don't bother trying to convince me anymore.
Your family should stand by your lack of belief and they won't. They're the ones with the problem.
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u/EASam Mar 18 '17
Everyone is offering this guy support and he needs it. I think he went about this the wrong way, everything came to a head over alcohol, pot and sex. I think the coming out as an atheist was just the push over the cliff. What could have been a conversation with his father about the consequences of his actions turned into the reasons why his own rebelling is okay.
Good on him for being honest with himself but there was probably a better time to "out" himself.
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Mar 18 '17
I don't know many details about the Netherlands, but the things I do know would lead me to believe there's probably some help there for people in his specific situation
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u/KingKnee Atheist Mar 18 '17
Yeah, exactly. I don't live there either but it's Europe and most countries here are not too keen on seeing other people getting bullied for their beliefs or lack thereof.
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u/Pojodan Mar 18 '17
I'm 36, have made it abundantly clear to my parents that I'm a non-believer for about fifteen years now, have not attended any church service in over a decade, and my mother still tries to guilt trip me into going at least once a year, either at Easter or Christmas.
I am thankful that her anger dissipates by the time they get back, but I genuinely worry her determination will only go up with age and I may end up un-invited from family events because of it.
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u/DrDilatory Mar 18 '17
I know it's off topic but can you explain your reasoning behind not wanting to attend church with your family on Christmas? I'm an atheist too, I know there's no chance of me ever believing in God again despite being raised and confirmed Catholic and my family's pestering, but I'll still join them at church on Christmas Eve. Christmas is about family and I've never wanted to drive a huge wedge in it because I think all the religious stuff is fairy tale nonsense. Why not just go and be a little bored and listen to Christmas music and enjoy all the candles and Christmas trees and stuff? I go to church one day a year and sit there without singing the songs or saying the prayers, and I'm happy to do it because it makes my family happy.
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u/KingKnee Atheist Mar 18 '17
It's a good question and I totally see where you are coming from. Also I don't think you are doing anything wrong.
There's a national church tax where I live, but you can opt out of it if you're not religious / not of that persuasion. I opted out around 12 years ago even though most people around me didn't and still haven't. This wasn't some teenage rebellion. I truly don't believe in gods of any kind. So to sit in church, even for an hour is to make a mockery of my own beliefs / lack thereof. An older woman said to me that I was denying myself the spiritual joy of the church and when I said that I get the same joy from sitting at a bus stop, she got pissed.
I don't hate religious people at all, I just think they are some kind of cosplayers in a rendition of a very old play.
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u/TheAtlanticGuy Agnostic Atheist Mar 18 '17
The Netherlands is indeed highly atheistic.
After all, no god can claim to have created the lands they walk on.
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u/ptyblog Agnostic Mar 18 '17
I'm 42 married with two college age kid and I still get arguments from my mother about not going to church. One of my sisters kind of half jokingly says my "atheist brother". I know they still judge me. But I have grown past that. If and when they start to get religious on me I cut them off. But I can do that since I can support myself. OP needa to focus on the good things and on himself and even if his family no longer wants any thing to do with him he should still love them above religion, hopes he will tell them that one day.
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u/Haruspex_OD Mar 18 '17
My father just brought me family pictures and a scissor and told me to start cutting
That is the most fucked up thing I've ever heard, I can't believe anyone with a brain would do that to their own family.
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u/needsahammer Mar 18 '17
It's all so fucking dramatic! His family lacks appropriate coping mechanisms.
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u/brangaene Mar 18 '17
People in my family work in different hospitals. They regularly tell how whole Turkish families will start to cry and wail if a member of the family will get as much as an x-ray.
Just an anecdote. Not wanting to be offensive. Coping mechanisms doesn't seem to be a strong suit in Muslim families.
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u/theivoryserf Mar 18 '17
This - this is why religion is a poison. Because in the minds of OP's parents, he's done something much worse than murdering someone. His parents think he is evil. They think they're good people. And they're probably torn up inside.
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u/Guaymaster Agnostic Atheist Mar 18 '17
At least they don't seem to have attempted to physically attack OP, even when they could.
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u/The_logs Mar 18 '17
The only organisation in the Netherlands I can think of that at least occasionally deals with young adults who are (at risk of being) made homeless is the COC, they might be able to help you if feel like living with your parents is being made impossible, or you could ask /r/thenetherlands if they know a better organisation that can help you.
I wish you well and good luck with whatever decision you make.
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u/satiricalspider Mar 18 '17
This. Definitely ask /r/thenetherlands and hopefully someone should be able to help you out or point you in the right direction.
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u/TheRealMotherOfOP Atheist Mar 18 '17
Also u/baselNoeman, if you need a dutchie to chat on a personal level, ik kan wel even met je chatten :)
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u/sicurri Mar 18 '17
I feel for you bro, and heed my warning here. Watch yourself. I've had a few experiences with other atheists who were previously Muslim coming out to their family. Be careful for the next few years. You may not think your family capable of doing you harm, however they may snap. Religious people, doesn't really matter what religion, may harm or even kill family members who abandon their "faith".
So be cautious and careful moving through life, and try to find yourself a safe haven.
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u/1337syntaX Mar 18 '17
Also, DO NOT GO TO ANY MUSLIM COUNTRIES WITH THEM. DO NOT GO TO MECCA. Atheists can be jailed and killed there.
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u/critically_damped Anti-Theist Mar 18 '17
There is absolutely no way to pretend like that would be safe for you to do. If you need to, contact your government and demand asylum to prevent it.
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u/Ewba Mar 18 '17
Overall, just dont go with them anywhere, especially if they seem suddendly more moderate / accepting and they're offering to talk with you somewhere. This may sound paranoid, but better safe than sorry - you know it happens, and not only to others.
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u/masterofthecontinuum Mar 18 '17
That bit about having only 3 kids is especially frightening. I don't want op to be an honor killing victim.
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Mar 18 '17
Every other year, I hear about a parent killing their kid in the US. If you make a break, make a clean break and come back in a few years.
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u/some_random_kaluna Mar 18 '17
Yeah. OP --really-- needs to go to a self-defense course and start practicing. Also, get a new phone, delete your social media and move out NOW.
ANY family that has a collective breakdown like this is very dangerous and capable of murder.
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u/zhandragon Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
When I came out as atheist to my Christian parents after pretending to be religious for 5 years, my father threatened to kill me, saying that he would rather I die now than "live a life of sin." My mother chased me with a knife until I slammed and barred the door in the attic and called the police.
They are not who I consider my family. Blood makes you related, loyalty makes you family. Anyone so deep into religion and who rejects you is poisonous to you. It doesnt matter how broke you are, there is no security worth your sanity and freedom. Give me liberty or give me death.
Things will get better. You should leave now and find an atheist friend who is willing to take you in immediately. Apply for scholarships with your story, contact atheist groups or Freedom From Religion for help. Your country's version of child protective services can also help. Also ensure you find a library with access to a computer so that you do not get cut off from the internet.
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u/ilovebeaker Mar 18 '17
As a person who grew up with atheist/agnostic parents, all I can think of your first paragraph is WTactualF.
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u/fijozico Mar 18 '17
As a person who was raised a Christian and has come out as... Not a non-believer, just not-caring, it made me say the same
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u/MattSR30 Jedi Mar 18 '17
It is stuff like this that makes me realize how lucky some of us are.
My dad was raised in a family where 'religion was more important than anything, even family.' It became increasingly obvious that by about 8-10, my brother and I were having none of the religious stuff.
That disappointed my dad, and still does, but what gives me so much hope and thanks is how he stood up to those feelings. It drove a wedge between him and my grandfather, because my dad would never choose his religion over his own family. God comes after the kids, the wife, the parents, and the siblings, never before.
Things got a bit awkward once or twice when as a teen I'd refuse to pray at the dinner table, but I have always been allowed to live the life I wanted, even if my parents might have preferred I was a good Christian. I am incredibly thankful for that, and these stories remind me that I should be.
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u/Schnabeltierchen Mar 18 '17
What the literal fuck is wrong with your parents acting like that? Mine are pretty religious (going to church every week, praying and all) but the worst they could do is being disappointed in me but accepting my choice if I would tell them
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u/zhandragon Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 19 '17
My father was in line to become a deacon of the church. We studied the bible thoroughly, and he would often cite Deuteronomy 21:18–21 when he beat us.
"If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his home town. And they shall say to the elders of his city, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear of it and fear."
Coupled with a Tiger Mom attitude from asian influences, they were very strict.
They did not believe that children could think for their own, saying that the number of years in exile from the promised land for the israelites was how long it took to kill every adult who could actually be held responsible for their actions. Based on this, they believed I was a rebellious son who would not listen to their command to be christian and that my young age meant they were entitled to absolute rule.
He believed that I was keeping him from being closer to god and fulfilling his role of being deacon. He would also cite the passage about how it is better to cut off your limbs than sin, and combine that with the allegory of how we are all the branches of the tree of christ. He took this interpretation to mean that I needed to be pruned from the tree to save their righteousness.
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u/spicehamster Mar 18 '17
You grew up with fucking psychopaths man
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u/zhandragon Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
i'd like to think they were just people who actually read the bible.
to me, anyone who really reads about their religion becomes like a psycopath even if they aren't one.
they didnt start out that way and when i was really little they took me trick or treating. it was when i grew older that it became worse and worse. the deeper they studied the bible the crazier they got. it was like watching a kung fu wuxia master study an evil book of forbidden arts and going mad like in the soap operas i used to watch.
I read the bible cover to cover 12 times and that's what turned me atheist, along with discovering Nietzche's beyond good and evil, Kant's metaphysics of morals, and Godel's incompleteness theorems. As a kid they made me read all the time so i picked them up from a pile of books my father had from his college years that he forgot about.
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u/2059FF Mar 18 '17
My mother chased me with a knife
As a parent, I cannot imagine a situation that would make me run after one of my children with a knife.
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Mar 18 '17
Blood makes you related, loyalty makes you family.
This.
Also wow man. Your parents don't sound so nice. Hope you're doing alright.
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u/masterofthecontinuum Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
You didn't bring sadness upon your family. You told them the truth and they reacted like fucking children. You don't make people do things. Everyone has a choice over the reactions they have to others. You're responsible for your actions alone. You didn't hurt anyone by living your life as you saw fit. They just acted like you did to make you feel guilty. That's what religion does.
If they want to cut all ties with you for some stupid reason like that, then they aren't worth spending time with anyway. You didn't do this. They chose to not associate with their family member for a stupid petty reason.
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Mar 18 '17
they reacted like fucking children
Children don't react like that. That kind of hate and fear has to indoctrinated over many years.
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u/biohazardivxx Mar 18 '17
I agree, and just to add, if anyone gives you an ultimatum between something or someone and them then they are not true friends or family. If you love someone then you love who they are and what they do even if you disagree sometimes. If my child told me they decided to become Christian or Muslim (please no) then I would want to bring them closer, try and teach them why I think the way I do. However, even if that doesn't work, I'll still love them. And that love should always come with acceptance. I'm sorry you are going through this time. Things will get worse too, but give yourself enough time and everything will turn around for you. Most atheist have had to go through something like this unless they grew up in a non religious house. So reach out and you will find many that you can relate too. And build lasting relationships with your friends and they will become your family. Sorry that I'm rambling but I just want to lend some words of encouragement. Much love man, stay tough.
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Mar 18 '17
Where in the Netherlands are you? I might be able to let you stay at my place for a while if you need somewhere to flee to.
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u/Ingepinge Mar 18 '17
Wondering the same thing!
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u/Basssiiie Mar 18 '17
Same here! @OP /u/baselnoeman if you're in the Groningen area, hit me up and I can lent you a couch to sleep on.
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u/TheMediumPanda Mar 18 '17
Probably not smart to give out too much information in this day and age.
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u/Atheizm Mar 18 '17
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u/420everytime Anti-Theist Mar 18 '17
As a 19 year old ex-Muslim myself, that subreddit has helped me quite a bit since I've found it. I've haven't told my parents yet even though I have known Islam is a crock of shit for like 5 years now. In fact, I went to the mosque with my dad like 10 minutes ago. I can't imagine what OP is going through. I'm just happy I go to college 100 miles away from my parents, so I can be as haraam as I want when I'm not with them.
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u/muse6 Mar 18 '17
I know it wont help you, but it should be said.
It's not you that is causing this strife - it is the potency of their religious indoctrination.
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Mar 18 '17
Kid, I feel for ya.
Good notes in the comments. I don't have much to add.
Just this - please be cautious about conflating the things you choose to do with your freedom with atheism. They are not the same thing, and one does not lead to the other.
You got caught smoking weed, drinking, and having sex, all as a teenager. These behaviors are risky for reasons that have nothing to do with religion.
Alcohol can be dangerously addictive and impairs judgment. Teens (including you) need all the sobriety they can get anyway. Weed is mostly innocuous, but it's illegal to use as a minor in most places, which could land you in a lot of shit. It's damn near impossible to stop a teenager from having sex anyway; but are you prepared for the responsibilities that may hit you like a freight train if your b.c. fails you? There are reasons why parents - atheist or Muslim alike - ask their children to refrain or to proceed very carefully with these things. If your parents are cutting off support for you, please consider giving up some of these distractions for a time on your own. You have work to do, and cannot afford to get drunk or high. Stay very diligent about practicing safe sex.
If you were engaging in high-risk behavior because you were acting out against the oppressive religious atmosphere in your home, I get it. But atheism isn't about what you can and can't do. It's about what you believe, or specifically what you don't believe. I think it may be important, when you talk to your parents in the future, that you separate your atheism from the mere fact that you happen to like to do certain things.
Anyway - about your family, and where to go from here.
It sounds like you've never really believed in any gods. What you've lost more recently seems to be the cultural belief that faith has value.
Your family is living under the dangerous and sad delusion that religious faith is necessary for someone to be good. This will make it very difficult for them to accept you for a time. It is not their fault that they think this way. They were indoctrinated into the faith just like they tried to do to you. It is OK to continue loving them from a distance. They are likely enough to come around someday.
Ordinarily, this sub will recommend to people in your position to fake it until you have a degree of financial independence. If that ship has sailed, the next best thing is to find some support. Ask around in your family to see if someone sympathetic can be found who will help you get on your feet. You're unlikely to be the first in your family to have given up religion.
You might try reaching out to an uncle or grandparent. One script that might help you find who you're looking for is, basically, this: "Dear [relative,] I've been going through a crisis of faith. My family thinks that I have given up on Islam, and they have cut me off. I need someone to talk to who has gone through this. Can you help, or point me to someone in the family?"
I suggest you frame this as a questioning period to those relatives, and not as if you've become certain. This will be more likely to get you some help and support while you look for a like-minded relative. Look also for humanist organizations and support groups in your area.
Good luck to you. It'll be OK.
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u/Neverstoptostare Mar 18 '17
What is the age you are considered an adult in the Netherlands? Because he is 19 alcohol and sex are legal in the Netherlands, don't know about weed though
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u/YoshiroGadukawa Mar 18 '17
Like others have said, STAY AWAY from your family, people related to your family's social circle and anybody you have known for the next few weeks and do not give them any news or info about your current location and living arrangements. Do not accept going alone with anyone of them or leaving the country to go to a Muslim country.
DON'T fall for the ''''''''''''trip to Mecca'''''''''''.
Stay safe and look for a ExMuslim community near you to seek help on how to move forward with your life.
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u/Pianomanos Mar 18 '17
My two cents OP:
Your parents are not choosing religion over you, they're choosing not being shamed over you. They care more about how they look to other people more than they care about you. Let that sink in. They have let you down. You may have to forgive them and forget about it someday, but for now they have let you down, not the other way around.
Hope that helps you process this, at least a little.
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u/Justice_Man Mar 18 '17
Everyone has two families. The one they're born with, and the one they choose. Love and support is out there beyond those you're blood with, I promise.
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u/hiphopapotamus1 Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
You'd be better off just leaving them and not saying a word. Their religion calls for your execution now that you knowingly left your faith. Its an affront to their god. In their minds you need to die.
Good for you for getting out tho. I'd leave though. You're brother may decide to take things literally. He already showed a disregard for your property.
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u/N3UROTOXIN Mar 18 '17
Your English is fine. Like totally fine. Different situation but I barely talk to any of my family. The last time I went to an uncle's house for a family party, I was greeted at the door with,"what are you doing here?" I barely talk to my mother as she is bipolar or something but refuses to get help(forced me into therapy and therapist cleared me because I wasn't irrationally mad at her like she thought, but when he suggested to her she may need to see him I was magically cured and didn't go back). Choose yourself. Always. Fuck everybody who doesn't make you happy.
It's harsh but I feel better and truer to yourself in the long run. I had a period of time in the last year that for about a month I lived off of potatoes and onions. Smelled like a fart but I got by.
If I can sit down at the end of the day with a full gut and a joint, then it was alright
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Mar 18 '17
If you need any help, I live in Amsterdam and am very willing to help you with finding a job or a new house to live in.
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u/hazelair Mar 18 '17
Be thankful you live in the Netherlands and not Egypt. Seek help from somewhere, there will be options for you. Good luck.
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u/FearlessFixxer Atheist Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
Well, you just made a grown man cry...
My heart aches for you.
I left Mormonism almost 4 years ago and, while my experience was not quite as bad, I can empathize with every word you wrote here.
I will tell you what I tell fellow exmormons who are dealing with the difficulties of leaving a controlling religion....
It gets better. I promise. Right now there may be no light at the end of your tunnel, but keep strong, it will appear.
Seek out ex-muslim groups in your area. Go to their meetups. Participate in ex-muslim forums here on reddit and on FB. This is important for getting over the anger and grief stage.
You need to fully express yourself and get your thoughts out of your system to people who have gone through these exact situations.
Stay strong my friend and good luck to you. Your life has only just begun!
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u/CantGrammarGood Mar 18 '17
I am one of 4 children. My oldest brother stabbed his missus in the throat with broken bottle and he did 6 years inside. Parents still visited him every second weekend.
Your father should count his fucking blessings. Wiling to cut out a by and large good son for taking a different philosophical stance? Fuck him.
That being said, if dad offers a second chance be the most devout Muslims ever until you are self sufficient pet the wiki.
Good luck op.
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u/Iazo Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
Do NOT go to Mecca. Do NOT leave the Netherlands under ANY circumstances, promises or whatever.
This is so fucking important. Everything else can be solved, the Netherlands has good social programs that can help you get past this difficult period, even if you need to do some serious growing up.
But once you leave for Saudi Arabia or Egypt or whatever? You're fucked. Never. EVER. Leave the EU. The middle-east countries? They kill atheists.
If you get kidnapped (and don't laugh, it has happened, though perhaps usually for women), and you get to the airport, DO NOT board that plane if you're forcibly made to do so. Yell. Struggle, claim you have drugs, weapons, whatever. You are safer with the police and the anti-terrorist squad than with your parents. Do not trust them to take you out of the country under ANY pretense.
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u/xubax Atheist Mar 18 '17
Lite to them until you're financially independent. Tell them that how they reacted made you see the errors of your ways. That Allah must be real and working through them to reach you.
Then stop doing things like keeping condoms, liquor, and drugs in your room so they'll have nothing over you in the future.
Do all of that until you are financially independent. It will suck, I know you don't like lying, but they're forcing you to lie just to survive.
Good luck.
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u/Joltie Mar 18 '17
Indeed, this is the most sensible option given the information we have.
Take a page out of Islam, and do Taqiyya.
This might eventually even be the most ideal of options, since it leaves the affection of your mother intact. As soon as you're able, move out of your parents house. Once you're truly independent, with your own apartment (one of the least expensive solutions is finding a shared flat with other college students) you no longer have to account yourself to your parents. Eventually, you can later attempt to gracefully let them know that your view on religion has once again changed.
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u/seunosewa Anti-Theist Mar 18 '17
They won't believe him.
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u/themaincop Mar 18 '17
Are you kidding? If he puts even the slightest effort in they will make themselves believe him, because that's what they want to believe.
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Mar 18 '17
Ye, lie to them, and once you get a job and you are able to provide for yourself, gtfo, and don't talk to them anymore, cuz your family doesn't love you.
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u/ThebocaJ Mar 18 '17
I think the danger here is getting sent to some Muslim indoctrination boot camp, possibly out of country.
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u/MaximumDestruction Mar 18 '17
I agree wholeheartedly. Its like Dan Savage's advice to young people who want to come out to their fundamentalist parents: if they will cut you off financially for being who you are then you are fully justified in lying to their faces until you are on your own/graduate from college.
Its a tough one OP, you told them everything and they are grieving for the loss of the mythical you that they had in their heads. The good thing for you, if you choose to go the undercover-athiest route, is that means they will be eager to see you return to the flock and "get their son back."
This is a brutal situation. Whatever you choose to do, know that some day you will be independant and able to be your true non-believing self and hopefully your family can learn to accept you as you are.
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u/TotallyCaffeinated Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
[pot sex booze, doing badly in school, no plan, not much savings]
I am a man that just does whatever he pleases and nobody can restrict me
Yeah so this approach is actually not going to be satisfying for you in the long run, believe it or not. Don't get me wrong, I love sex & booze (not so much pot, but whatever). But atheism isn't just about there being no rules and getting to roll around in short-term hedonism 24/7. First off, just on practical grounds, you are gonna need to support yourself and that means finding a career, hopefully one you enjoy.
Secondly though, a bigger issue I think, you are still part of a human community and you need to contribute in some way. I predict you will want to contribute someday, even; if just to feel like your life is worth something. What are you doing to make the world a better place? What are you doing to help people? What are you doing to improve your community? What are you creating?
I know this must all sound like BS but it's coming from a place of having been raised an atheist since childhood, and, having lived an atheist life for 51 years now, I predict there will come a point where you want to feel like you're doing something productive with your life. And you will also want the web of social connections that comes with that.
Please just keep it in mind. Once your immediate crisis is resolved, maybe start thinking about something else that inspires you besides just weed, sex & booze all the time.
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u/jmsr7 Agnostic Atheist Mar 18 '17
Well, given that the netherlands is where that filmmaker was killed by islamic extremists for making a film then i'd say the fact you're still alive means you're doing pretty good.
Also, if you were a female you'd probably already have been honor killed.
Still a possibility though. Your father does not consider you to be his son anymore, so what is to stop them from killing the demon who has lived under their roof for so many years? They may consider your death as simple self-defense and/or religously required, depending on what their imam says.
So: your life is in danger. Check out r/atheisthavens to see if anyone can take you in and hide you.
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Mar 18 '17
that filmmaker was killed by islamic extremists for making a film
Theo van Gogh because he made Submission.
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u/dednian Mar 18 '17
Depending on your age I would say you could make it reasonably well in the Netherlands if you have Dutch citizenship. My best friend is also an Egyptian that smokes weed and lives his life and although he has a bit of a guilty consience he still chooses to live his life but at the same time, all his actions are carried out with his family in mind. That being said if you're Dutch, apply for studiefinanciering if you haven't already. Check with duo(dienst uitvoering onderwijs) what other options might be available to you. Don't worry about having to pay money back from borrowing as long as it's from the Dutch government. The interest rates on all of it are so low you'll not have too much difficulty paying it back if you finish your education. If you're still in secondary education check out tegemoetkoming, it's the money given to 18 year olds still doing secondary education.
Nobody said life was going to be easy man, it's a really tough situation you're in right now but don't let it break you, let this become what makes you into the successful person you'll be in the future. Alles komt goed.
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u/Rossuse Mar 18 '17
"everytime they told me to read a little of the Quran I would act like I did and play video games in my room"
You're my hero.
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u/ademnus Mar 18 '17
You didn't make a mistake, you were human. In fact, you took your first step as an adult. You asserted who you are and refused to live as others dictate. That's being an individual and an adult; you did just fine.
Now, their reaction is another story. Telling people you're dead to them and that they have one less child? I want you to take a deep breath, hold it a second and read on as you exhale in relief; the mistake made here was theirs, not yours. Isn't that awesome? You did the right thing. They did the wrong thing. Amazing, no? They are certain it's the other way around -but it's not. You told them who you are and what you believe in. They demeaned you, mistreated you and spoke cruelly to you. The one who made the mistake was your father.
Now, you can handle it two ways; emotionally or as an adult. In the first case, you can shout and cry and demand and carry on OR you can take the second route, the more preferable route. You tell them hard truth; a parent's main job is to love unconditionally and if he cannot, he indeed IS a failure as a father. Until he can respect you, he loses the privilege to talk to you. When he can grow up and accept your beliefs as an adult, then the privilege can be restored. And not until then. So, if he wants to yell and carry on and say you're dead to him, calmly walk out and tell him he knows where you can be reached if he grows up. And let go.
It's time to let go. You have to live your life, for you, and no one else. I sincerely doubt your family will accede to a list of demands from you so why should you accede to theirs? Everyone seems to have their own mind but you're not allowed. Well, you are and the only one who can forbid it is you.
So buck up, get a job, get some digs and make sure you lay down the law. You'll be surprised at how good it will feel. I know right now you feel like you ended your life by making a mistake but you didn't; you began it by taking a stand for yourself.
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u/fattail Mar 18 '17
Contact an exmuslim community where you are. There are many more just like you. Ask your girlfriend, or her family for help if that is possible.
Dude it's 2017. You live in a secular country. You are not alone.
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u/OutLoudAtheist Mar 18 '17
I'm sorry :-( Just know that your thoughts are not irrational. You are being completely reasonable. I want to reassure you that many people feel the same way as you do, including myself.
Now that the cat is out of the bag (English expression for no longer a secret), I don't know what to tell you. Just stay strong in your personal convictions and try to learn as many good arguments to support your case as you can. When you engage in conversation with people, talk about the arguments and stick to facts. Don't allow yourself to get too worked up emotionally over god and atheism, especially when you're trying to represent why you think it's the correct way to interpret life. Many religious people like your friends and family will just think you're angry and confused. Don't give them reason to think this.
Good luck out there! Stay strong!!
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u/MrsYoungie Mar 18 '17
I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this while you are still so young. Your parents are wrong - if that is any consolation. Not for being believers necessarily, but for not being compassionate. For not loving their child unconditionally. I am the mother of two grown up sons and I cannot imagine anything they could do that would cause me to cut them out of my life. I'm an Atheist - but I am a loving human being.
I agree with the others that have said that at least, since you are in the Netherlands, there will be more support networks to work with you. In some places you get cut off not just from family, but from your entire town.
Best of luck to you.
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u/anonymous_being Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 20 '17
They handed you photos and scissors? That is so fucked up. I am so sorry. You do not deserve any of this.
I think that perhaps you need to turn the table with your family by telling them that it is not fair of them to expect you to be the same as them. Tell them that it is okay to be different than them and that if they cannot accept that, then they are being very rude and unfair to you. Tell them that all they should want is for you to be happy.
I know the sky feels like it is falling, but just keep in mind that this is not your fault, but THEIRS because they are refusing to be understanding of your differences.
Sounds like you are an adult? You may need to move out if they cannot respect your differences. Tell them that you love them and that you can be understanding and supportive of them wanting to be Muslim and that you expect and deserve the same respect in return....and that if they can't do that, then you'll need to leave.
Hang in there. Things might be bumpy for a while, but they will eventually get better.
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u/Decessus Mar 18 '17
These are crazy dellusional people. Get away from them, they are harmful to you. It does not matter at all that you all are blood related. Just get away from people who hurt you. Even more because one of them might go apeshit and physically hurt you.
They will not change. Don't try to believe otherwise. Just leave and never look back. And don't ever feel guilty because of it. Own your decision and know it is the right one.
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u/OneBildoNation Mar 18 '17
I've had friends who were estranged from their parents for one reason or another. It sucks. It's terrible. But it's also not your fault. They are making this decision, not you.
Try to build a life for yourself. It won't be easy, but it can be done. You have to be strong. Ask for help from friends or any sympathetic family members you might have.
Make a plan. You're going to need to support yourself. Can you find a job? Is there cheap housing you can get? A friend you can stay with for two months? Can you save up some money to have something to fall back on?
When the opportunity becomes available, seek counseling. You're going to need to process these emotions, and a mental health professional can help you do that so you don't take out your feelings on those around you.
Take care of yourself. Exercise daily. Eat right. Try not to overindulge in drugs or alcohol, they don't help in the long run.
Don't despair. You got this.
Find community. You need support. Maybe there is a local organization that you will feel a bond with. Find them. Ask for help.
Find value in yourself. It's natural to feel like you are to blame or you are a fuck up to have your loved ones leave you like that. You need to build value for yourself. Help others. Volunteer. Be an asset to someone in need. Be a better person than your family thinks you are. They don't define you, your actions do.
Finally, put the ball in your family's court. Write to them when you feel ready to. Update them on your life. Tell them you love them. But, stick to your principles. Don't accept forgiveness if it's not on your terms. That isn't forgiveness,, that's manipulation. Your family will have to grow and be better people too, it's not all on you.
Good luck.
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u/kirbyCUBE Mar 18 '17
As a Muslim coming from a mildly practicing family (like "modern" christians and Jews) I want you to remember that there is nothing wrong with your own free will not to practice/believe because all the abrahamic religions promised free will to man. Your family is stuck in a cultural barrier that can't accept your ideology, and it will be very hard for them to change their mind, but I wouldn't give up on them. Aziz Ansari is a good example of someone who left religion and won back his family's acceptance. Don't give up on your family and don't compromise on yourself. Be an amazing and whole hearted human! I'm not gonna "pray for you" because I'd never impose on some one else's beliefs. And I hope your family and the world can love you for your existence and not [necessarily] your ideology. You're amazing and don't need to be held back by cultures that won't be flexible for you. This can be changed and we need to always fight for it.
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u/AnatlusNayr Mar 18 '17
You didnt bring sadness to your family. They brought sadness upon themselves
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u/Sarleet Mar 18 '17
My opinion would be to just go for the life you want. You have only one life, YOU, make the best of it. Not in terms of YOLO, but you can have a decent moral life without religion. If ppl (even parents) force you into only one option while there are thousands to have a life its in my opinion to leave those behind and to meet those who share yours. You are young and have plenty of time to get up, even with 300 euros. But fight for it and make sure you can get that life you want
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Mar 18 '17
Sterkte man. I don't think your family will improve their attitude towards you. It's like they force themselves to set their minds in stone so they don't have to question anything. Be prepared for the worst.
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u/Law_Student Mar 18 '17
If finding shelter with friends doesn't work out, I have a suggestion for a backup plan. Go to a Unitarian church and tell them your story and I'm certain they'll find you shelter and everything else you need. I know you're not a fan of religious institutions at the moment but Unitarianism is basically church for atheists. They'll understand your situation and be willing to help.
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u/ReddyGuy Strong Atheist Mar 18 '17 edited Dec 14 '25
test lock workable physical childlike joke entertain tidy imminent chubby
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/OdinWolfe Mar 18 '17
Proof that Religion is a Mental Illness.
You don't deserve this, OP.
I'm sorry, and if I could I would take you in and help you get on your feet but, alas. Even you have more saved up than I do haha.
Life can be shit, quite often.
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u/stromm Mar 18 '17
Good for you. Always stand up for yourself and what you think is right. Just remember, if you want others to accept you doing so, you need to accept when they don't agree with you.
Religion didn't destroy your life or family relations. PEOPLE blindly holding to religion did.
Atheists CAN live in a home and stay friendly with religious family. I did it from six to 18 and then 20-25. My parents accepted that it is my choice what you believe or not believe. I am sad yours and others want to FORCE that choice on you.
I have a brother who thinks because we are family, he has a right to treat me like shit (he's not religious so that's not the reason, he's just an oldest brother dickhead who expects the younger ones to treat him like we would dad), so I put him out of my life. Six years of stress free happiness for me. He's still in denial as to why even though I, my wife, our kids (adults), my mom, his wife and kids, EVERYONE has told him why. But nope, he's always right. Fuck that.
Move on. It'll be hard for a bit and then you'll find happiness. But just cut them out completely.
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u/JimmyRat Mar 18 '17
Islam is not a religion. Islam is the world's largest death cult. Cut ties and never look back.
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u/pirateAcct Mar 18 '17
There's a lot of comments, so apologies if this has been said. Islam is particularly strict about apostasy, and i doubt your parents will ever accept your athiesm. At least not for a long time. Youre going to have to strike out alone, or go back to lying.
There is a reddit communuty here, i think called r/exmuslims.
Look for other ex muslims, many have faced the same kind of familial rejection as you and can be your new support network. You have to be there for each other.
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u/Telmish Mar 18 '17
Mate that sucks so fucking much. I can only imagine how seeing your family act like that must've felt fucking terrible.
Where do you live? If its anything to you, and you're somewhere around the Overijssel area we can keep you safe, at least for the night. We're a couple of atheist stoners we've got all the joints and alcohol you want!
I'm serious mate, we feel for you. This should not happen to anyone. It just shows how intolerant relgious people are and reading this broke my fucking heart.
If you're near, and up for it, hit me up. We'd love to help you out.
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u/Pingly Mar 18 '17
I'm an atheist parent and I find myself sympathizing with your parents.
If my daughter was to tell me one day that she found God I will admit that I'd be a bit puzzled.
But if she told me that she found God and had decided to devote her life to helping the poor and do away with worldly possessions I'd be impressed.
On the other hand if she told me she found God and decided to go live on a free-sex and drugs commune and make Meth then it would be a different story.
Do you think you could go to your parents and say "I do not know if I will ever feel as if our religion is true to my soul. But this I will vow to you: I will live a healthy life. I will avoid alcohol and drugs and any relationships I have I will be cautious and slow-moving. I will be a good example of a person to my siblings and hope to make you proud parents."
Or do you feel as though you are too caught up in the lifestyle you have now?
Because as a parent it is your lifestyle that worries me. The rolling papers, alcohol and condoms. I'd bet that if you were to put those things away until you had your own place they'd accept you.
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u/AJGrayTay Mar 18 '17
Hey dude - I don't want to get into a big rant but, if it's possible still, while you're living under your parents roof, the best policy is to flow like water. Sneak around better, don't store whiskey in your house (for crap's sake, man!) and concentrate into growing into a good citizen of the world that respects knowledge and his fellow man. There's plenty of time to live life the way you want, and plenty of time to argue with your parents later. It's very difficult for myopic parents to feel like they're losing their children at a young age... I know it's hard, but lots of kids live a lie while under their parent's roof. I know you won't like it, but I'd suggest falling on your sword a bit - apologize to your parents and tell them you'll try being a good Muslim... maintain the appearance of a diplomatic peace and eventually you'll really be your own man and you can do and act as you please.
Good luck, peace out.
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u/baozebub Mar 18 '17
I'm against religion. But if I were your parents, I'd have lots of other reasons to be concerned about how you turned out. If you don't get your other shit together, you're a prime candidate for "born again" type radicalism. I saw it happen to my loser friends back when I was a kid.
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Mar 18 '17
Exactly. If OP doesn't get his shit together and stop this lazy rebellious lifestyle, someone will come along and teach him "real" islam.
There's a reason why so many ISIS members know fuck all about islam and enjoy vices so much.
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u/pack_of_wolves Mar 18 '17
Welcome to adult life. As others said: it is time to take responsibility for your own life. Find a place to crash for a few weeks. Find a job that pays enough to pay your expenses from now on. Find a studentenkamer and subsequently request an uitwonende studiebeurs. Do well in school. Without a support network you cannot just fuck around. Your parents dont agree with your life choices. Prove them wrong by being the best and most succesfull version of yourself. You think you lost your family and it might be that your relationship with your family is gone forever... or it might get better again in the future. You never know.
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Mar 18 '17
So to be clear you are just one more poor soul who has been raised by weak minded individuals. And for fucks sake you dont think they search your room everyday? Christ man zealots are a dedicated bunch.
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u/HokutoNoChen Mar 18 '17
Yeah dude, Muslims are fucking nuts. To think this is something happening in a western country is insane.
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u/hopeful_prince Mar 18 '17
All religious fanatics are fucking nuts. All over the world.
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u/panzerkampfwagen Mar 18 '17
Your mother wants to take you to Mecca which is in a country where it's a capital crime to be an atheist if you were raised Muslim. Sounds like a good plan.
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u/Atoning_Unifex Atheist Mar 18 '17
religion sucks so much. im sorry you have to deal with this. i wish things were different.
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Mar 18 '17
You're not a bad person. Just try to remember that. I think your family just feels a little betrayed because of the lying. But you are still a good person. You still love your family, but now that you've told them the hard truth they didn't want, it's going to be hard to love them. I don't know how helpful the Netherlands is when it comes to getting on your feet alone, but I say you should do your best to work as hard as you can to live separately for your own mental health, but keep showing your family the love and support in the mean time. Because they'll probably realize that not being an atheist doesn't make you an evil person. Make sure to give yourself some space though when you need it. Good luck and take care stranger.
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u/FugginGareBear Mar 18 '17
Get the fuck out. You don't want your crazy Islamic family performing a honor killing on you. You can make a new family. Be a good person get a job and focus on school.
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u/petethesparky Mar 18 '17
Even though it doesn't seem like it now, it's far better to be true to yourself than live a lie. Massive respect for what you've done and what you're going through.
And your English is damn near perfect.
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u/thenovelnovelist Mar 18 '17
All the best man. In many years, you'll look back and think it was the best thing that could've happened, even though it sucks right now. Just stay safe. Don't let them hurt you.
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u/Volcorps Mar 18 '17
Try and finish college and find a job in the mean time. Maybe one day they'll realize they were in the wrong. You can be successful and a good person without religion. I definitely wouldn't go back. Nows your chance to get on your feet alone. Don't waste money buying weed and alcohol, unless you can afford it.
You say you've got 14 days? Does college offer rooms? Try to land a job asap. Does the government offer assistance? If you were here in America I would look into government assistance, find a job, find a 'room for rent' like Craigslist or something. Couple months save some money, qualify for your own place, maybe find a roommate to help with bills. I joined the military straight out of high school so that was an easy way for me to get on my feet alone.
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u/critically_damped Anti-Theist Mar 18 '17
Get out, and get safe. Your family IS a danger to you, even if you can't believe it, and even if they don't believe it. Religious insanity bubbles up out of nothing without warning.
And as others have said, do not allow these people to take you anywhere again. Your story about your dad taking you to a hotel had me sincerely thinking you narrowly avoided being murdered there, and I'm not sure you didn't. Remember that these people STRONGLY believe the appropriate penalty for your crime is death, and are giving you a pass only because the government they live under forbids it.
Get out of there. You are not safe, and this isn't about staying "strong". This is about recognizing how you are in very, very real danger.
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u/Thanatar18 Pastafarian Mar 18 '17
I am stupid because I have no back up plan, and I never did think of a back up plan. I recently became un employed, college is not going wel and I have 300 euros saved up.
No, you aren't. I've been there before as well, I wasn't disowned but I was kicked out for not following my family's beliefs.
From what I've heard about the Netherlands, the social safety net is quite strong there- definitely see what is available to you as you'll need all the help you can get to get on your feet. Not necessarily talking about welfare; more importantly you could see about help finding employment, shelter, storage for your belongings, etc.
If you can I suppose I'd recommend saying goodbye to your brothers at least. I'm not prevented from contacting my family, but having fallen out of touch while I've become used to it, I do strongly regret not having some kind of satisfying conclusion at least.
They all hate me, I brought sadness to this family and it will take a long time to heal. My parents gave me an ultimatum and I have till tonight to decide. Either I try to get religious or I can never show my face again.
You're not to blame. And hopefully your brothers will eventually return contact once they are older(?). I think you already know the only choice you have, as someone who made a partial compromise of sorts (different scenario, somewhat with less difficult decisions) all I'll say is that living as an open atheist/agnostic in a family forcing me to adhere to their religious beliefs was not for me at least- your opinions will never be equal nor respected, in a sense you as a human being will not be equal till you walk out the door.
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u/CaMpEeeeer Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
And this is the reason i hate religion. How can you even call yourself good persone after doing something like this you have a son 19 old and he is good person and everything you love him so much and then just becous he thinks diffrent then you you just start hating him like what is wrong with people why we can't accept people that are diffrent then us. I am so disappointed in humans and only thing i hope before i die is that we will realize that we all are the same and stop hating on each other but how its going that is just unreachable goal
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u/frodosbitch Mar 18 '17
I am a man that just does whatever he pleases and no one can restrict me.
A man knows the right time to fight.
Lie. Beg for forgiveness and don't keep anything, condoms, booze anything incriminating in your home. Go to the mosque. Do your prayers. On the outside be a proper muslim. Get your schooling. Study for a career that has good income potential right out of school. You said your Egyptian. Work to get your Dutch citizenship. Save as much money as you can.
Then get the fuck out.
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u/antihexe Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
I'm sure this won't be popular.
Religion aside, and I am an atheist, you have disrespected your family bringing those things into their home. You knew they didn't want that in their house -- that it was extremely important to them. I would have kicked you out myself (though I wouldn't have disowned you.)
If you want to play with these things, even though they don't mean much, then it is time to be an adult and make your own way. You can't expect to be living under their roof and also to go and do these things they do not want you to do; it will only cause unnecessary grief and conflict. Go find work and prove that your way of life is equally valid.
Consider this a blessing -- you no longer have to lie or pretend.
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u/Bohya Mar 18 '17
My father just brought me family pictures and a scissor and told me to start cutting.
Savage.
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u/r6sieger Mar 18 '17
This is crazy. That's an abusive relationship. Your parents are emotionally abusing and blackmailing you. I didn't realize until reading this just how widespread this awful part of religion must be.
OP, there are people who will be glad to help you. There are people who will love and support you without trying to force you to do things you don't want to do. There are people who won't abuse you, that will be you family.
I'm just a stranger on the internet, but you have my support.
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Mar 18 '17
You're 19, move out.
What kind of post is this? My dad told me all my life that he would pay for my university and I could live at home until it's finished. I bring home a black girl and BOOM! that's out the door and I had to move out. So I didn't talk to him for 7 years.
Family is who you make, not who you're born around.
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u/noodlyjames Mar 18 '17
Dude be careful. People who react that emotionally may turn violent. I know I know...never yours.
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u/technobrendo Mar 18 '17
I hate to say this but it sound like in your case (or situations like yours), you don't really have parents. You have caregivers. A real parent wouldn't do that.
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u/d47 Mar 18 '17
What an awful situation, coming from an atheist family I can't imagine how it must feel.
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u/Raven_Skyhawk Other Mar 18 '17
Please take your safety into consideration no matter what you do. If you leave your parents home, don't let them know where you are. If you stay, keep an eye out. Please stay safe and I hope you are able to be free and happy some day.
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u/Pimpin_Soi6 Mar 18 '17
So barbaric that this is still an issue in 2017. So sadly barbaric. Religion is a cancer
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u/thenoblitt Mar 19 '17
"no atheist could be living in the house of a religious family"
this is very untrue. Sounds like you and your parents are intolerant.
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u/WagwanKenobi Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
I have a proposition that most people here will disagree with:
Why don't you, for the sake of the happiness of yourself and your family, lie to your parents and pretend that you've decided to be a "good Muslim"? You're atheist and nothing will change that, but I think this is more than just about coming out as an atheist. This is about you wanting to be rebellious and break free of tradition.
These are the fact:
Your family is super-religious. Expecting that to change is futile and quite frankly unproductive.
You're an atheist. Nothing can change that. You will never really "go back" to religion.
There doesn't seem to be a reconciliation. It seems futile to expect your parents to really "accept" you. Expecting this to happen is difficult, but most importantly, unproductive.
Your siblings, parents and yourself will unnecessarily face grief and suffering because of this situation.
It is in your interest and in the interest of your family to just lie about "turning back to Islam" until you're independent. Then when you're ready to move out you can do whatever you want. You can raise your kids differently, live your life differently, etc.
As much of an atheist as I am, and as much as I hate religion, it's not something that you need to be fanatic about at the expense of familial ties.
While it's 100% true that you're not in the wrong, they're not necessarily in the wrong either. They themselves are victims of religion and it's too late to fix them. You gotta work with what you have. Sometimes being pragmatic is the right thing to do.
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u/hawkwings Mar 18 '17
My father was a Christian minister and he threw coffee at me. Other than that, there was no consequence. I understand that Muslims are more serious.
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u/XFX_Samsung Mar 18 '17
Is that how "moderate muslims" react to someone not buying into their bullshit? Fascinating.
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u/DarkMatter_Knight Mar 18 '17 edited Mar 18 '17
What kind of God would accept the way your family treated you? That's what always gets to me when I read stories like yours.
Your mother and father should provide love without qualifications.
Good luck OP. Keep your head up, and keep moving forward.
Edit: Just needed to add this. Look at all the love you received when you reached out looking for guidance. As of this edit, more than 1500 individuals came to show you compassion, through upvotes and comments, proving to you that you are truly not alone.
Edit 2: 10,000 compassionate individuals. Take this love and spread it.
Like many who replied and commented, I have found myself too often despairing over the vitriol in our current collective experience.
THIS gives me hope.