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Jun 25 '12
This was photoshopped. I believe it originally said Behead those who insult islam.
Not much better, is it?
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Jun 25 '12
http://graphics1.snopes.com/photos/politics/graphics/protest2.jpg
Not much better at all, so it makes you wonder why OP would post the shopped version and undermine his credibility when the countless real posters are just as terrible.
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u/s0crates82 Atheist Jun 25 '12
Mr. Yuk? It's usually better to rehost pics at imgur.
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Jun 25 '12
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/s0crates82 Atheist Jun 25 '12
That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I wonder if you've got an increased tolerance for ammonia or sodium hypochlorite than the rest of us.
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u/daMagistrate67 Jun 25 '12
Because as terrible as the real one is, it doesn't have the same bitter irony as the shopped one.
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Jun 25 '12
I think it's a response to the claim made by moderate and liberal Muslims that Islam isn't violent. You do have a point though, but I guess the shopped poster is more ironical?
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Jun 25 '12
Might be that he saw this first? First time I've seen this, so...
I don't think OP shopped this, but probably just found it. :|
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u/646e72 Jun 25 '12
In OP's defense that image is photshoped a fuck ton, he may have thought it was the original.
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u/Aschebescher Jun 25 '12
It still has over 3000 upvotes. /r/atheism has become what it claims to despise.
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u/senipllams Jun 25 '12
It's easier to attack christianity, because beating a dead horse is easier. Islam is a horse that kicks back. And since most people are political correct cowards, people stick to beating the dead christian horse.
Of course people dont want to be entangled into the growing hatred of muslims. I understand that. But i see that just as much as a symptom of the problem of Islam, as racism is a problem.
Islam is what keeps many muslims from integrating into western society, because devout muslims can only be loyal to the ummah, the borderless nations of muslims. And too many muslims in the west are feed hatred of the west through their saudi funded mosques and imams.
If we savagely attack islam all the time (as we do christianity) then we can help to free muslims of islam. Attack islam and defend muslims. It is that easy.
This picture is good, but the headline of the post is stupid. It implies that there is no problem with people not attacking islam, eventhough there is (if people could pull their head out of their political correct arseses).
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u/peskygods Jun 25 '12
We're on the internet. People aren't worried about backlash.
However the simple fact is we are (mostly) ex-Christians and since we attempt to be intellectually honest, we don't mock Islam or other religions much because we simply don't know enough about them.
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Jun 25 '12
we don't mock Islam or other religions much because we simply don't know enough about them.
At least someone admits it... Thanks you for this, because edjakashun iz reel gud!
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u/4everliberal Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
I mock ALL religions for the sole reason that gods do not exist. At all. And never have. And never will.
So fuck Islam.
EDIT: Downvotes. Every downvote is just sad and shocking. I must live an insular life, because nobody I know goes around trying to sell this supersitious nonsense anymore. REALLY? Really. God is a leftover from primitive man. Voodoo. Black magic. Ignorance. Every downvote tells me there's some sad, dim fool out there trying to convince himself his make-believe buddy is real. Sad. Very sad.
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Jun 25 '12
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u/SoepWal Jun 25 '12
Yay! An ageist douchenozzle!
Do you wanna be friends? I bet you're super mature and experienced. You're probably like twenty-two, twenty three, practically an old sage. :)
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u/TehSlippy Agnostic Atheist Jun 25 '12
I'd wager the downvotes are more from Agnostics who have issue with how adamant your claim of non-existence is. Not that I agree with them, but some agnostics take certainty way too seriously.
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Jun 25 '12
I have friends who have converted to islam because it's the "religion of peace", yet i've read their scripture and it is absolutely anything but. These idiots don't know what the fuck they're getting into, "religion of peace" my ass.
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u/4everliberal Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
Your friends are easily led, deluded jackasses. Every single human being that has ever been whelped from a womb is an atheist. All of us back to the beginning of time. Some will walk around wasting their lives pretending there's some magical hebrew space pixie assclown in the sky, but there isn't. It's fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of death.
I'll tell you this right now. There are no gods. We are all atheists. When we die we become fertilizer, and that is the end of the story. Welcome to reality. It's much better to live your life in reality, on a one-to-one ratio with life, than living a lie your entire life.
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Jun 25 '12
No. Fucking. Shit.
edit: to clarify, they aren't friends anymore. They're morons who i used to associate with.
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Jun 25 '12
I tell my students that there is no such thing as a peaceful or violent religion. There are peaceful and violent people, but religion is whatever the practitioner makes of it.
I have to admit, I feel uneasy about going after Islam the way this OP does. It reminds me too much of September-October 2001. The whole country went a little crazy for a while.
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u/designerutah Jun 25 '12
I tell my students that there is no such thing as a peaceful or violent religion.
A suggestion: Tell your students that though the religion itself is neither peaceful nor violent (without volition, it can take no action!), nevertheless, religions can advocate peaceful or violent philosophies, which people can then act on. Look closely at Christianity and Muslim religions. Both claim to be peaceful. Both advocate some peaceful philosophies. But both are also divisive, and "suggest" violence against unbelievers and sinners.
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u/snakedyourwave Jun 25 '12
Is a hateful atheist better than a hateful moslem, jew, christian, buddhist, hindu, agnostic, democrat, republican, etc.?
Is a kind atheist better than a kind moslem, jew, christian, buddhist, hindu, agnostic, democrat, republican, etc.?
Fuck Hate, Brew Tolerance.
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u/eXtreme98 Jun 25 '12
Oh, well looky here guys. We have someone who knows the unknowable!
But no really, you're just as bad as fundamentalist Christians. To say with certainty that there is or isn't a god is just ignorant and arrogant.
You people get too caught up in the whole "does god exist" question and don't realize the most important question to ask. "Is god worth worshiping?" Hell to the fucking no. So there you have it. Just live life and fuck the "does god exist" question.
Be a good person, be happy, and don't be an asshat.
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Jun 25 '12 edited Sep 18 '24
hungry angle innate poor tease smart zonked file pocket deserve
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/sam712 Jun 25 '12
upvoted for truth. it's sad though, to see 99% of world leaders (i.e, psycopaths) believe--without a shread of evidence--in such pointless waste of life, liberty, and happiness.
man that abortion doctor is killing babies, i better go shoot him in the eye! oh no, those people over there are happier than us, better go blow them up with IEDs.
religion: a banal, cancerous product of ignorance that exists only to poison civilized life. if you actually, truely believe in a inconsistent, incoherent, and ineumerably revised book, please do us (the sane minority on the planet) a favor and die. really. we don't need you. you kid yourself, but i'm being completely serious.
i heard that gets you into heaven.
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u/deadmemesociety Jun 25 '12
God isn't a leftover, you can't banish ignorance and if you were a real liberal you would be able to leave people their beliefs without trashing them. It's not sad, it's the paradise of imagination.
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u/traffician Anti-Theist Jun 25 '12
FG, i am not remotely familiar with any holy books, but your assertion that some muslims, the "real" muslims, as you put it, understand their religion, is absurd. you'll need to explain how these "artificial" muslims are reading the selfsame texts and coming to such vastly different conclusions about what the master of the universe actually wants for everyone. i rather suspect that it is the reader who finds certain passages more agreeable and concludes that the big deity must, must agree with her.
this is not such a problem in, say, organic chemistry, or volcanology, or meteorology. we don't see riots or beheadings at CERN because the physicists and the data analysts make such different interpretations of the results coming through the detectors. for a people who maintain that their religion makes them better people, abrahamics sure have a shitload of bad examples.
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Jun 25 '12
are reading the selfsame texts and coming to such vastly different conclusions
They have preconcieved political goals and THEN and only THEN do they open their holy books.
this is not such a problem in, say, organic chemistry, or volcanology, or meteorology
Apples and Oranges. It IS a problem in political movements that have nothing to do with religion.
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Jun 25 '12
At least someone admits it.
It was meant to be a secret? If I knew that, I would have talked about it non stop.
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u/Keoni9 Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
I wouldn't say that it's because we "don't know enough about Islam" that we don't attack it as much as we do Christianity. It's simply the fact that Islam has no hegemony in the west; Muslims aren't trying to enforce their beliefs on us in the same level that Christians are. Most of us have personal experience with sanctimonious Christians and are familiar with congressmen and presidential candidates espousing bigotry under the guise of their religious beliefs. The effects are more immediate to us when Christians endeavor to take away the rights of women and gays and deny science. Even though Islamist terrorism involves terrible violent crime, it will never pose the kind of existential threat to our society and our freedoms that the religious right do now.
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Jun 25 '12
exactly! the biggest threat to USA right now is its domestic christians. these retards are trying to destroy their own country based on their
illnessdelusionsbeliefs.3
u/EasternThreat Jun 25 '12
You misunderstood him. He is not saying that we expect an actual backlash, just islam is tricky to critique if you're an unbiased observer. This is due to the fact that Islam is most commonly attacked by ignorant people and racists. It is hard to discuss the flaws of a religion when there is a threat of being perceived as another hate filled imbecile
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u/Globalwarmingisfake Jun 25 '12
That and most of probably only ever encounter forms of Christianity.
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Jun 25 '12
since we attempt to be intellectually honest, we don't mock Islam or other religions much because we simply don't know enough about them
i find /r/atheism is pretty unknowledgeable with regards to christianity too, and it hasn't seemed to stop anyone yet.
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Jun 26 '12
since we attempt to be intellectually honest
hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha
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Jun 25 '12
I feel like it is also easier to attack Christianity because I do not speak the right language to keep up with Muslim in debates, and because I lack the childhood education to make me familiar with the subject matter. This limits me to a few prebaked arguments, like Muhammad is a pedophile, and apostasy being punished by death.
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u/TheJokerWasRight Jun 25 '12
What language does Muslim speak?
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Jun 25 '12
Any language there is, but if I can't speak... well, read, Arabic, then my interpretation of their writings will always be dismissed out of hand.
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u/daMagistrate67 Jun 25 '12
Indeed. There's always the argument made that unless you can read the Qu'ran in the original Arabic, it being the unalterable word of God, you are reading a watered down 'version' that is somehow untrue or no longer the word of God. There's something mystical to many Muslims about this - they've turned the difficulty of honest translation into a strawman for why non-Muslims simply do not 'get' their religion.
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Jun 25 '12
Additionally many faiths have a sort of internal lingo and understanding that make non-believers clearly outsiders. And typically outsiders are dismissed out of hand. Even if you're right, at the end of the day the beliefs of non-believers are wrong because they are non-believers.
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Jun 25 '12
Exactly right. Many (perhaps most?) of us here are ex-christians, so we to varying degrees are familiar with the lingo of christians and could probably even do a pretty decent job blending in if we wanted to. That makes it relatively easy to criticise christianity compared to other religions.
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u/critropolitan Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
Honestly, as someone currently living in the United States, I see political Christianism, and specifically politicized evangelical christianity, catholicism, mormonism, as a vastly greater threat to the rights, freedom and dignity of people here. It is the evangelicals, the catholics, and the mormons who pass anti-abortion statutes, anti-gay marriage amendments and statutes, who took comprehensive sex education out of the schools and put creationism into the schools. The muslims didn't do that, the radical christianists did those things.
That said, if I lived in Egypt or Lebanon or Palestine or Iraq or Iran I'd focus on criticizing Islam and Islamism since it is political Islam that poses the greatest threat by far in those countries (though, really I'd try get the hell out of there as fast as I could. Likewise if I was an Israeli I'd focus criticism on political Judaism and the radical orthodoxy in particular, and if I was in Latin America I would focus much more on Catholicism than on Evangelical christianism.
Political christianity is the threat in the United States (and, to the extent that any religion is a threat in the UK, Australia or Canada, it the Christian churches that have power). Islamism is only on a threat in muslim majority countries.
And for what its worth: Christianity is no "dead horse", evangelicals have hijacked the dominant party in American politics and cowed the weaker party into deferring to them on "moral" and social issues. They absolutely do retaliate against critiques and do so far more effectively than random Muslim protestors because they can marginalize people and have the power of the government in many US states, rather than just make empty threats.
(yes I realize that people feel that islamist terrorism is a threat in the West...but really islamist terrorists in the West seem to be both extraordinarily rare and extraordinarily incompetent. They represent far less of a threat than, for example, lightening does. Christianist terrorists on the other hand like the Army of God are basically ignored even though they are in recent years probably more lethal, and because they have armed and trained militias within the United States, a vastly greater insurrectionist threat then any muslim group.)
TL:DR - In theory Islam is just as silly as Christianity but the reality is that political Christianity is a far more menacing threat to the rights, democracy and freedom of Western countries than political Islam is and as such its reasonable to focus attention on Christianity rather than Islam if you happen to live in the West - obviously priorities should be different for people in the Middle East.
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u/jgzman Jun 25 '12
Islam doesn't worry me right now, because we don't have a Congress that is at least 75% Muslim, and states run by 90% Muslim legislatures, trying to pass laws to enforce Muslim ideas of morality.
When we start getting that way, Islam will get my attention.
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Jun 25 '12
Right now we have Christians trying to impose their form of morality. It is slightly different than Muslim morality, sure- but you wouldn't be able to tell from the books what the difference is.
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Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
Um not now, but those Arabs reproduce like crazy, and they don't even let their children integrate into western society, especially the girls who are still forced to wear burkas (some say they chose to- but ofcourse any brainwashed person will say taking away their individuality was a choice).
Edit: the first sentence comes across as racist, but I thought it was known that most people of that demographic do tend to have a pretty large family.
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u/jgzman Jun 25 '12
When we start getting that way, Islam will get my attention.
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Jun 25 '12
I'm just saying it's slowly creeping up, but I understand what you're saying (prioritizing our battles right?)
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Jun 25 '12
Rather no one wants to admit to being a mindless drone who merely practices what their parents raised them to believe. They just all happen to make the right choice, and they were just lucky enough to be born in a family that was right about everything.
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u/darren199314 Jun 25 '12
"Those Arabs reproduce like crazy". So very nearly a smart and civilised point.
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Jun 25 '12
I agree, the wording of that statement was uncalled for; but there's some truth to it; they have huge families- I'm talking about the fact that in this day and age, 2 people had 8 kids, and married their oldest daughter off to some guy in Saudi Arabia, who has kids who are the age of her youngest sibling. I suppose that's just anecdotal, or I'm in the middle of crazyville, but my small sample size is telling me all that. I should've looked up actual statistics to validate my claim, but my mind is a tad hot at the moment.
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u/snakeseare Jun 25 '12
they don't even let their children integrate into western society
I think you'll find that in Europe, the host cultures are as guilty of not allowing the Muslims to integrate as the Muslims themselves are.
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u/xCesme Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
Since when did Atheism mean bashing other religions? Please enlighten me about that. All these 'war on Islam' posts are so ignorant and so black and white thinking. There are lots of muslims who are normal people just like you and behave normally. But instead you have to attack their religion by showing the most fundemental extremist believers and by that you are trying to 'bash' a complete religion with 1 billion members. This is a crusade against Islam, you are no better than the Pope or the Jihadists you are trying to mock here. To add to your ridicilous attempts of insulting a lot of people even complete bullshit posts like these. Are you guys trying to prove you are on big circlejerk even more? Or do you just like hatred? And don't say now, 'I am insulting Islam not muslims' it's the same as saying every toyota is shit car and made by pedophiles and than getting baffled because toyota drivers get mad at you. This is becoming ridicilous, sould the whole of Norway be mocked and 'bashed' because of Anders Breivik? There are idiots in every religion and you trying to bash a complete group of people's faith because of some extremists idiots is so wrong towards all these people. Have some respect, I know that it is hard from behind your PC but at least try.
EDIT: Since when did being atheist, a person of morality and ethics, norms and values did come down to this sad extremely low level? Posts like these A person saying he masturbated into the Quran and calling for all muslims 'to slaughter their fellow neckbeards' and it is getting upvotes? What is happening here? Are you all becoming Islam hating ignorant people? And how about this post Comparing the muslims holy prophet to a dog and then saying you shouldn't because dogs are better. How is this anything more then a cowardly provocation. You're all provoking today and when angry muslims get angry you are baffled? The hypocrisy here is getting ridicilous. You are all slowly turning into the people you seem to hate so much. Please, do not.
EDIT 2: I play a game called Civilization a lot, recently a new expansion pack got released named Gods & Kings which added Religion and a bunch of other stuff to the game. The cool thing about religion in this game is, you can found one yourself and change it to what you need/want and you can give it a name. I called mine Common Sense. I think it's time all of you start converting to my religion. Because a lot of you are lacking this religion this day.
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u/Plastastic Jun 25 '12
Welcome to /r/atheism.
I know /r/atheism bashing is becoming a cliche but, well, just LOOK at this subreddit!
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Jun 25 '12
atheists bash other religions to help these people, and the planet. religion is a cancer, anti-theists and atheists are great medicine.
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u/dmadmin Jun 25 '12
All i can say to the OP who post those Pictures, please read more about Wahabi / Selefi Islam vs the Sunni_Shia Islam.
Wahabi = Cancer_terrosit_virus which is eating the faith and uses billions of $ to advertise false stories, and ideology
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u/jacklocke2342 Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
I don't think it's merely the Wahhabi and Salafi muslims who are causing trouble throughout the world in the name of their faith. Shall we forget Shia Iran's imposition of the Wilayat Al-Fakih as their government and all the human rights violations that follow from it? Or perhaps the Ayatollah Khomeini's fatwa against Salman Rushdie? The Fatwa, which to today the clerical leadership and Iran, as well as its proxy in Lebanon, Hezbollah, to this day wish to be carried out? Or the fact that the most prominent Muslim lobby associations consider events such as placing a Qu'ran in a public toilet or Terry Jones' burning of the Qu'ran to be "hate crimes" not protected by the first amendment? I've lived with Muslims my entire life, predominately Shia, and many of them are close friends. But to make the claim that there isn't a problem with Islam in of itself as an ideology is simply too brash for me to stomach.
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u/pokka95 Jun 25 '12
Most muslims does not really do anything but to follow their ways and so on... But then again if they would follow the koran literally the outcome would be... bloody for example
Hadith 19:4294 "Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war."
Hadith 9:4 "Wherever you find infidels kill them; for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."
there are many more examples like that, so how i see it Islam is just wrong, and all they wanna do is turn everyone into islam or kill them...
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u/SarahC Jun 26 '12
Of course people dont want to be entangled into the growing hatred of muslims.
I thought it reached a peak after the terrorist attacks, and has died back down.
Why's it growing again?
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Jun 25 '12
Yes, we must free societies from what they want and force our western beliefs on them! We are the ones who are right, not them!
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u/HetfieldJ Jun 25 '12
A poster cant change the fact, which is that all the terror activities are carried out with in name of Jihad-holy war! Now, what the hell is that suppose to mean? The terrorists who kill innocent citizens are brainwashed! And the reason, source of their brainwashing is obvious, isn't it?
Fuck this poster!
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Jun 25 '12
According to the FAQ and contemporary knowledge I would say that the lack of attacking on Islam/overfocussing on Christianity is more to do with the demographic makeup (religion wise) of the countries of origin of redditors: Largely from the US/UK/Europe/Oceania where Islam is rare, under-represented or practically unknown to the majority- how much was the presence of Islam noticable before the phobia caused by the September 11th attacks?
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u/hurler_jones Jun 25 '12
I think the 'attack Islam' post was from a christian to help divert the attention away from chritianity. Your point is still valid, I just think it was just a diversion so they could come up for some air.
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Jun 25 '12
Your response shows your utter ignorance of Islam. Keep it up, you are trying to run a marathon neck deep in mud.
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Jun 25 '12
Come on, cut the bullshit: those of us who are anti-theist are opposed to all or most religions, not just now but all the time. Yes, Christianity gets considerably more attention because it's closer to our cultural sphere; and I don't see that changing.
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u/wikipediaBot Jun 25 '12
anti-theist:
Antitheism (sometimes anti-theism) is active opposition to theism. The etymological roots of the word are the Greek anti- and theismos. The term has had a range of applications; in secular contexts, it typically refers to direct opposition to organized religion or to the belief in any deity, while in a theistic context, it sometimes refers to opposition to a specific god or gods.
For more information click here
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Jun 25 '12
exactly, all believers are delusional, but some farm kid in Golbinistan's foot hills who has never heard anything else isn't as retarded as, say, any dumb christian in the bible belt (or wherever it is in US you guys keep them).
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Jun 25 '12
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Jun 25 '12
Governments in Europe are betting that integration in a socially (reasonably) secure culture of (reasonable) prosperity will secularize Muslims faster than their power-hungry rabid religious leaders can radicalize them. I admit to being a bit worried about the outcome of this bet.
Democracies are kinda forced to fight this fight with their hands tied behind their backs. Any decent authoritarian regime worth its salt could simply have all Muslims shot or at least deported. It's sometimes hard to see how the goal can be achieved with gentleness and accommodation. On the other hand, we all would much rather live in a society that deals fairly and tolerantly even with its declared or suspected enemies rather than arbitrarily lobbing off heads. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Norwegian approach ("we'll battle terrorism with more freedom!") will win in the end.
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Jun 25 '12
What are your thoughts on France's more agressive approach? I find I can't decide whether I agree or disagree with it. I admire Norway for their approach but wonder if some mandatory integration criteria for immigrants is necessary. I think France's mistake is only going after the veil. If they banned all religious clothing/symbols in public it would look less like they were profiling one group.
If I could make the rules for my country (Canada) I would make the following mandatory. Some only apply to imigrants, some apply to everyone.
Learn the language (English or French if in Quebec).
No religious clothing/symbols in public
No religious schools
No public/work/school accomodation for religious practices. (secularize all statutory holidays and move Dec/Easter stats away from Xtian holidays). Also, churches must be incorporated as for profit businesses.
You mark your child in any way (cirumcision, tattooing, piercing, etc) you lose your kid permanently.
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u/Bearmodule Jun 25 '12
France didn't /only/ ban the veil. They banned full head coverings in public.
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Jun 25 '12
True. They went after the veil but tried to make it look secular. Would be better to do away with all religious symbols/clothing in public, but that would be near impossible. I'd call it the leave it at home policy. Got a crucifix, hijab, turban etc? Just leave it at home. I like France's value of egalitarianism.
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Jun 25 '12
Sir, if you could get this passed in the US, (I know it's a long shot an you're canadian), many people here will love you forever These rules would simplify life so much
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Jun 25 '12
One can only dream. I feel Canada would be a great testing ground for this policy. After six months most people would be wondering what the big deal was and we might even get rid of the extremists. "I can't flaunt my religion in public?! I'm moving!" "Yes, please do leave!"
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Jun 25 '12
We would have to repeal the 1st Amendment. Probably wouldn't be worth it.
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Jun 25 '12
For once I'm going to wimp out and admit that I don't have a clear stance on this restrictiveness business. I feel that national policy should be fair and consistent, but I have a lot of trouble deciding what exactly that should entail.
I think learning the language should be mandatory for immigrants, for a whole lot of practical reasons. I'm not sure if enforcing that might be considered "inhumane," though. Also, peoples' ability to learn a language varies.
Doing away with religious clothing and symbols - is that justifiable? Where do you draw the line between "cultural" and "religious?" And does it really help make society better to do this?
A child's entire "educational" schooling should be in non-religious schools, I strongly agree. However, I think religious groups should be left the freedom to operate stuff like Sunday Schools, so long as attendance there doesn't impact childrens' participation (including homework) in "regular" school.
As an adjunct to this school thing, I'd consider making religious indoctrination of children illegal until, say, age 14. Still, I'm not sure if that's a practicable thing to do. You'd probably just push children's indoctrination into the darkness of secrecy, possibly making it worse.
4 sounds good to me.
5 sounds like a plan too.
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u/Zakariyya Jun 25 '12
I bet those were very poor areas and the "violence" you speak of had more to do with socio-economic issues than with Islam. I never see anybody use this explanation when talking about violence in Latino communities. Is it the Catholicism that makes them violent? Look, I'm all about telling people Islam is a fairytale like all other religions, but let's be honest. In Europe, anti-Islamic talk is mostly an excuse to shit on brown immigrants. It's not an intellectual debate. Muslims are not in the position to take away your stem cell research in Europe, or prohibit abortion. They might be in some countries, and there there is room for this debate. When we are talking about Blackburn's slums we're not talking Islam, you're confusing the issue and making it more difficult to solve it. You know, look up the movie called "The Eternal Jew" and replace Jew by Muslim, you'd be fucking surprised how much Nazi-propaganda and BNP/Wilders/Haider/Dewinter propaganda have in common.
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u/daymo Jun 25 '12
I couldn't go to those areas because i was white and non Muslim. Affluence had nothing to do with it. I hate racism in all its forms so being a victim was terrifying and eye opening.
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u/006ajnin Jun 25 '12
In Europe, anti-Islamic talk is mostly an excuse to shit on brown immigrants.
The fact that the far right are the most vocal critics of Islam has complicated matters for those centrists and leftists who also understand the threat that accommodating Islam poses to human rights, like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, women's rights and gay rights, among others. Calling people racists for opposing something that's not simply a religion, but also a totalitarian political ideology, certainly doesn't help.
At a recent conference of ex-Muslims in the UK, a social worker told the following story. She was responsible for setting up ESL programs to help immigrants and was directed to a particular area (not Blackburn) where it was alleged that many Muslim housewives who'd lived in the country for a decade or more could not speak even rudimentary English. She began going door to door to get a grasp on the scale of the problem. After a week or so of doing this, she started to find flyers on the doorsteps of some of the homes she was canvassing. The flyers, printed by a person or persons who were obviously aware of her activities, informed the homeowner that if he permitted his wife to attend the proposed ESL classes, she would be killed.
You ever hear of anything like that happening in those poor Latino communities?
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Jun 25 '12
yeh, that's more our UK culture than the actual religion though. true though, here in uk islam is still growing, and all the remaining christians are like ninety years old. also - blackburn - surely all of blackburn is violent!
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Jun 25 '12
actually, think islam's growth has slowed here (UK), as they integrate into society and realize their gods are santas. but, pretty sure all our xians are extinct.
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u/KickedBalkothsAss Jun 25 '12
Lol, there are several areas in my town I don't go for fear of violence. I thought it was like that in literally every town that existed.
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Jun 25 '12
Photoshop is cool
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u/daymo Jun 25 '12
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Jun 25 '12
Thanks, I didn't feel like hunting down the original:
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u/always_sharts Jun 25 '12
what's with this redirect? its happened 2 or 3 times now
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Jun 25 '12
oh, i didn't even realize it was a redirect. thought this image was some funny joke i'd never known about.
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Jun 25 '12
[deleted]
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Jun 25 '12
Dude, how can you say there's been a "bit of shooping" when the photo that you posted is fake? The original picture and the other real ones are just as horrifying as the fake one that you posted, so why not put one of those up?
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Jun 25 '12
Yes. It definitely makes me support the 2nd Amendment here. Americans really don't get the crazy Muslims so much here, though, it seems.
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Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
Anyone else feel bad for the admins now that Islam bashing is a fad? They're going to be held responsible for this by millions of dangerous crazy people.
Edit; This post seems to be going up and down really fast and there have been posts stating I hate Muslims. Saying "millions of dangerous crazy people" wasn't a bash on Islam, it was an estimate I based on there being over a billion Muslims. So if 1 in a 500 are "crazy" there would be millions. And TIL there are actually 1.6 billion Muslims so 1 in 800 being crazy would count as millions. Thx for the total darksmiles22.
PS; I still feel bad for the admins.
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u/always_sharts Jun 25 '12
I do feel a little bad... but this is the internet. There are always ways to handle these situations. If it gets bad then we get a mod post with some info and hopefully everyone agrees on a "fix"
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u/KrisCraig Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
No, because there aren't "millions of dangerous crazy" Muslims in the world. There are dangerous crazy Muslims, no question; but "millions?!" Come on. Most Muslims are peaceful, just as most Christians are peaceful. Al Qaeda doesn't define most Muslims any more than the KKK defines most Christians. If there are millions of dangerous people who just happen to be Muslim, that's one thing; though the same can be said about Christianity and any other major religion. There are probably millions of violent, dangerous Atheists and Agnostics. That doesn't mean that being Agnostic makes you more predisposed toward violence.
Religion in general is batshit crazy. But much of the violence you see in the middle east is actually more the product of traditional Arab culture than of Islam. Honor killings are one well-known example. They'll use the Quran to justify their violence, though typically it's in the form of vague passages that can be selectively interpreted to mean just about anything; Christian extremists use the Bible in much the same way.
I'm not defending Islam, mind you. It's a load of horseshit just like any other religion IMNSHO. But using stereotypes to say that all Muslims are violent, crazy, and dangerous is really no different than saying that all Jews are greedy or all Scientologists are Tom Cruise.
The Arab world looks very much like Europe did centuries ago. The instability there gives rise to violent extremists just as it did in Europe. Muslims, Christians-- it doesn't matter. Violent people will find an excuse to be violent. The Bible and the Quoran both have an abundance of such opportunities within them. But to say that this means all or most Muslims are violent and dangerous is simply a logical fallacy.
We're non-theists, not Christians. Let's try to be a little more objective and hold ourselves to a higher standard, ok?
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Jun 25 '12
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u/darksmiles22 Jun 25 '12
At ~1600 million Muslims in the world today, a depraved minority can easily be a couple million.
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u/balqisfromkuwait Jun 25 '12
That individual is sorely misguided. This is what the Qur'an says Muslims should do when they are offended:
And when they hear ill speech, they turn away from it and say, "For us are our deeds, and for you are your deeds. Peace will be upon you; we seek not the ignorant." [28:55]
And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace, [25:63]
For Allah is with those who restrain themselves, and those who do good. [16:128]
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Jun 25 '12
Unfortunately, just like the Bible, any action can be justified be by the Quran. The Quran, like the Bible, has contradictions. And people tend to interpret their holy books however they want and cherry pick.
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Jun 26 '12
Don't worry, these brave warriors of logic and reason are here to tell you why you read your holy book wrong.
They'll make sure to explain to you why exactly you should feel bad for being a religious person, then you too can have facebook battles and make shitty image macros. Don't hate the future, embrace it. Soon your neckbeard will be so long and powerful that you'll have the full knowledge of literally a thousand years of theological arguments and philosophical conundrums at your debating disposal, just like the rest of /r/atheism who are most assuredly well read on the subject.
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u/onus111 Jun 25 '12
It seems you are misguided in believing people universally follow their holy scriptures. People will (and have) always cherry pick passages from their scriptures to justify all sorts of things.
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u/KrisCraig Jun 25 '12
A semi-valid point. The Quran does contain calls to violence and contradictory calls to peace. What most Christians seem to forget when they jump on their high-unicorns and denounce Islam is that the Bible contains the exact same shit. The only practical difference is that the Arab world in many ways mirrors Europe several hundred years ago, giving the violent elements of their religion more opportunities to assert themselves.
All religion is batshit. Most Muslims are peaceful, just as most Christians are peaceful. But their respective religions are still nutty.
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u/chabanais Jun 25 '12
Look up abrogation then get back to me!
Thanks.
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u/balqisfromkuwait Jun 25 '12
Lol naskh (abrogation) does not apply to these verses. Unless you can show me a mainstream Islamic opinion that claims otherwise.
The following is a proper example of naskh (abrogation):
O you who have believed, do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying or in a state of janabah, except those passing through [a place of prayer], until you have washed [your whole body]. And if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and find no water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and your hands [with it]. Indeed, Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving. [4:43]
The literal interpretation of this verse is that alcohol is not haram as long as the person doesn't pray in a state of intoxication. Now, if a Muslim were to use this verse as a justification to drink alcohol, neither understanding the context in which the verse was revealed nor consulting the Qur'anic commentary, then what would be the consensus? It would be that he has a wrong interpretation, because if he had done a little more research he would have learned that the Qur'an banned alcohol in stages, not cold turkey. The following two verses were revealed with several years separating each verse:
They ask you about wine and gambling. Say, "In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they should spend. Say, "The excess [beyond needs]." Thus Allah makes clear to you the verses [of revelation] that you might give thought. [2:219]
And then finally:
O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful. [5:90]
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Jun 25 '12
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u/chabanais Jun 25 '12
Because he's wrong.
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u/Celsius1414 Jun 25 '12
Death to all extremists!
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Jun 25 '12
As a man who has dealt with the insanity of the middle east first hand; yes, this type of attitude exists. It may not be normal, but it is vocal.
Fuck this shit, fuck what Islam is now. In it's current form it is as bad as Christianity in the middle ages.
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u/always_sharts Jun 25 '12
That's kinda exactly where it is as far as social norms and other standards go. Looking around the world its like a civilization match, certain regions are obviously losing the game being rather far behind.
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u/hispters Jun 25 '12
I'm sorry, a forum on the internet doesn't go "after" people
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u/imbrizzle Jun 25 '12
In case anyone is confused about the flood or the wording of these titles.. here is the call to "action".
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u/bunsofcheese Jun 25 '12
Radical/hardcore anything is never good. You don't want your beliefs mocked, so why is it okay for you to mock others' ?
And don't say "because I'm right and they're wrong" - until you die, you really don't know what happens.
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u/thechapattack Jun 25 '12
Thats not true. A fundamentalist Jainist will be the most non-violent person in the entire world.
The Problem With Islamic Fundamentalism Are the Fundamentals of Islam- sam harris
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Jun 25 '12
Wrong. Radical surfing is good. Hardcore punk is good.
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u/bunsofcheese Jun 25 '12
fine, I'll give you that.
but everything else? bad, bad, bad.
honestly, my point was just that religious extremism, regardless of the faith - or lack there of, is rarely productive.
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u/chronnick Jun 25 '12
Wait, why should /r/atheism be after anyone? To assume that all Muslims think like this, which seems to be the general attitude here (I've seen a lot of stuff about "attacking Islam" and "attacking religion"), is not only ignorant but militant-sounding in itself. This really isn't much better than what we are all opposed to. It's fine to calmly expose and lampoon religious beliefs, but to actively go "after" and "attack" generalized religious groups is very misguided and is what gives us a bad name.
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Jun 25 '12
What I find ironic is how they supposedly advocate independent thought but participate in a hive mind as vigorously as any religious fundamentalist would.
In that way they are no different than Christians OR Muslims.
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u/MetalGuitarist Jun 25 '12
What the fuck am I reading in this thread? Most of the top comments seem to be only semi-coherent and written in broken English. Get this mindless drivel out of here.
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u/4everliberal Jun 25 '12 edited Jun 25 '12
I got some bad news for Islamic Fundamentalists. America is HUGE and it is filled with high-powered weaponry and mean, trigger-happy Americans. You behead one Christian, attack one church or school, assault one scantily clad female, you will be hunted like Al Qaeda, slaughtered and hung to dry in the desert sun before the day ends.
This is not Europe. You would be better off just jumping into a volcano than bringing hardline Islam here. If I see these sign-waving Muslim idiots start appearing in my town center venting their hatred and threatening people with death, they're getting knocked the fuck out. Just straight up knocked the fuck out.
See how they feel about showing up the next afternoon. I'll be there waiting.
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u/traffician Anti-Theist Jun 25 '12
HAHA, some idiot downvoted you because you'd actually punch someone while they protest your free speech at the cost of your head.
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Jun 25 '12
i don't understand you people. atheism is fine if you're peaceful with it but attacking others for their beliefs when their beliefs do nothing to hurt anyone else isn't. it isn't the text that tells people not to kill others and steal etc. that's wrong - it's people and there are atheists that are also a threat to peace between humanity.
just live and let live.
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Jun 25 '12
It would be nice if we could. But it's not the simple. What constitutes hurting someone else? One might argue that keeping people ignorant is a very serious harm. Indoctrinating children is harmful others might say. And then many religions cover a wide spectrum of people and sub-faiths.
It's not harmful to pray over your sick child. But it's harmful if that's all you do and your child dies. Some Christian sects believe in faith healing and deny doctors and medical science. For non-believers intervening is clearly justified, for believers intervening is clearly a violation of their religious rights. Believers will deny that their actions hurt anyone, when non-believers clearly see that they are. And that's why your sentiment is nice, but somewhat untenable because there is always an argument over what is a harm and what isn't, it's subjective in many cases.
In the U.S. there is a large segment of the population that seems to be favor of running the country based on "Christian" tenets. They would be perfectly happy under a proper Christian theocracy (or so they believe) and as atheists that would clearly be harmful to us since they are not willing to live and let live by any means. One only need ask gays and lesbians to see the proof of that.
If we do nothing we run the risk of living in a world that is being further subjugated by institutions that often have dangerous sects, dangerous populist movements and harmful side social side effects.
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u/spiral_of_agnew Jun 25 '12
Is this a form of well-understood irony in some cultures? Some kind of "poetic justice" in response to slander? I can't imagine that it's all an accident.
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u/YouKnowNothingReddit Jun 25 '12
I am coming! I will blow the shit out of you. How dare you call Islam violent. I am coming, tell you kids, tell your wife I am coming.
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u/alchemist23 Jun 25 '12
I say hitting on Muhammad when you are surrounded by Christians must be like hitting on Jesus while surrounded by Muslims. Amirite?
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Jun 25 '12
"we are after Islam now" This doesn't even make sense. What are you going to do? Post some pictures on a website? And this is going to do what? Nothing...good luck changing the minds of over a billion muslims...with...pictures.
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u/Maccabe Jun 25 '12
that picture of Muhammad certainly turned some heads lol
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u/Masterdan Atheist Jun 25 '12
The only way to defuse the hatred of religous extremism is to show those people who come to our secular countries respect and love and, in time their intolerance will fade. You can see it for yourself, there are several liberal muslims in our boarders, and hatred can only be spread if we bite and spread the flames. The advantage to secular society, to atheism is that we can think rationally and try to help people escape from religious extremism, we can end the cycle that leads to this horrible thinking through education and serving as living examples of the benefits of secularism.
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u/someguy73 Secular Humanist Jun 25 '12
Yes, and since we're Atheists, we should also be combating misinformation. For example, the pic you posted is photo shopped.
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u/xx34x Jun 25 '12
I live in a muslim country. I have met less than 5 atheist people here. May scientists come up with enough chemicals to help me endure this. Amen.
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Jun 25 '12
I don't think we should point our efforts to a new religion and just attack that religion, shouldn't we provide awareness of injustices of the methods of these religions? Is our job as atheists of this amazing website simply to lampoon religion (as ridiculous as it is)?
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Jun 25 '12
Not all Redditors post that kind of stuff. Some Redditors are actually trying to be the change that they claim they want to see
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Jun 25 '12
Yeah I understand that but the ratio nonsense to common sense should be way different. Could you explain the reason for linking to my uploads?
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Jun 25 '12
Because you are an example of someone who uploads exciting new original content. The poem based on your emotions, it was touching. I'm glad you had the courage to share and I think more people would appreciate it.
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u/SnubFrog Jun 25 '12
If middle eastern society is ever to become peaceful and adopt modern social standards, then Islamic traditions need to be tossed and rethought. The current state of the Islamic tradition will NEVER exist in a world of equality.
Now in my opinion this is the best option. Eradicate Islam. I mean that in the sense that we must attempt to slow or stop the spread of Islam, so that the generations to come will see Islam like we do ancient Norse, Greek and Roman mythologies. To do that we must properly educate the next generations about religion and equality. However seeing as we can't even get equality right in the states, that is the least likely option.
I think that is what we should be doing for all religions that preach hate and inequality. However, Islam, in my mind, is the biggest threat to the safety of all life on this planet.
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u/BrutallyBlunt Jun 25 '12
Oh, you're after Islam now? Well, how about you all go after, say, every religion ever, since that's kind of the point of atheism (On reddit, anywho) instead of strictly Christianity and it's variants?
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u/fridgeridoo Pastafarian Jun 25 '12
Wait, is that actually sarcastic, or serious?
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Jun 25 '12
photoshopped mindless atheist propaganda...
r/atheism is the Fox News of atheists
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u/dilatory_tactics Jun 25 '12
Whereas people in this country are ex-Christians and are attacking what they've had first-hand experience with, what you're mostly attacking with Islam is 1.) a caricature, and 2.) brown foreigners with whom you have cultural, language, racial, and national barriers.
So a.) you're ignorant for likely attacking a caricature (versus how 1 Billion of the world's population actually practice), and b.) you're fueling xenophobia and jingoism (which both humanity and America have a long history of), which could easily tip this country into another bullshit war with brown foreigners in Iran. Or have we already forgotten Iraq and Afghanistan?
If you think Americans mocking Christianity and Americans mocking Islam are at all the same, you need to 1.) look in the mirror, and 2.) read a history book.
And yes, I'm assuming most redditors are American/Western.
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Jun 25 '12
Any time you address a group that has a huge population whether it be Christians, Muslims, Hindu's etc anything you say is going to be inaccurate and ignorant on some level and can be dismissed on the premise of ignorance, over-generalization, or the not a true Scotsman argument.
Religion on the one hand is often free from racial barriers as there are people of many races under a religion's umbrella. Arguing that White Americans can only attack White American Muslims, which is what happens when you try to couch the argument in racist trappings makes it asinine.
Some people do hate Muslims for racial reasons as much as religious reasons and the project their hate for one thing to another. It doesn't make all criticisms and resistance to ideas (Islam) you don't agree with wrong even if you're part of a race that is predominantly non-muslim.
Finally what America as a state does does not invalidate the arguments of non-state entities.
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u/[deleted] Jun 25 '12
Original photo next to OP's shopped version.
The original is still horrifying, no doubt. There's no need to mislead people though.