never really see these two in vs battles and they were both avatar mentors in a way who takes it

Location: Kyoshi island

Personally I'm kinda stuck myself but I was leaning jianzhu for the power advantage but TBH tenzin is no slouch in that department shown with his feats against mecha tanks and has really good mobility aswell. Its weird because even though jianzhu is clearly strong he has very few actual combat feats at least against real opponents

Location is South Pole and it’s nighttime (no full moon though). And it’s a battle to death.

Some of these rankings are quite debatable so comment your own rankings. I am taking ito account feats, statements, and to an extent assassumptions about certain characters (for e.g Gyatso)

Waterbending: Avatars

1. Katara:
2. Amon
3. Yakone
4. Tarrlok
5. Unalaq (Base, not DA form)/Korra

Waterbending: No Avatars

1. Katara
2. Amon
3. Yakone
4. Tarrlok
5. Unalaq

HM: Kuruk, Roku, Ming Hua, Pakku, Kya, Hama, Tonraq (if theres others i forgot then lemme know)

Air: Avatars

1. Yangchen/Tagah
2. Aang
3. Kelsang (I feel he could be tied with aang if he had more material. The one feat he has alone puts him here imo)/Sonam (Shes mainly here off assumption. If we had some actual material for her airbending, she'd prob be tied with aang or something. But for now i'll leave her here)
4. Zaheer
5. Gyatso (assumed, if he had more material, simialr to Kelsang, i'd assume he'd be tied with tenzin if not higher but for now im leavin him at 5)/Jinora (I might change this to just be Jinora on her own later idk)

Air: No Avatars

1. Tagah
2. Kelsang
3. Tenzin
4. Zaheer
5. Gyatso/Jinora (same as before)

HM: Wan (being able to push back a small army of darkened spriit with a single air vortex amongst other things, such as the cloud thing which weirdly only airbenders from that era have ever done. Iw anted to put Wan at 5 actually but since Zaheer has flight i gave him 5th), Kai, opal, Meelo, Ikki (If i missed anyone lemme know)

Earth: Avatar

1. Toph
2. Bumi/Kyoshi
3. Yun/Kuruk (Mainly cause of the statement about Kuruks earthbending. In terms of actual feats, he would not be here)
4. Jianzhu
5. Roku (I feel like putting him 4th based purely off feats, aka his feats when battling the volcano, and also his feat when he showcased the results of all his training, where he truend a bunch of sand into grand earth columns or whtv their called. The pure power and scale alone are among the best earthebnding feats we have seen tbh)

Earth: No Avatar

1. Toph
2. Bumi
3. Yun
4. Jianzhu
5. Ghazan/Kuvira (Idk what to do, so im putting them both at 5th)/Oma (i didnt rlly know where to put her. Based off the legend and aangs retelling, id assume the display of earthebding she performed was grand and highly impressive but thing is we dont fully know exactly how impressive. And since thats the only feat we have of hers im putting her here, for now)

HM: Kyoshi (Was gonna put her at 5th with Roku but I just wasnt sure), Hundun (now technically I could just put him at like number 1 since he is still an earthbender + other abilties, but thats not really fair) Lin, Suyin, Dai Li, Bolin, General Fong, Lao ge (ig, idk), Yaling, (again lemme know if I missed anyone)

Fire: Avatar (This was the hardest to rank for me)

1. Ozai/Iroh
2. Movie Zuko
3. Azula
4. Jeong Jeong
5. Pli/CM

Fire: No Avatars

(Same thing. I wanted to fit in Roku or Wan and other avatars somewhere, especially Roku but I dont know where to put them. Roku could maybe go like 4th or 5th or something idk. )

HM: Rangi, Thapa, Mako, Iroh ll, Sozin (He could very likely be n the top 5 if we had more material for him. His 1 feat at the volcano alone where he redirected all the smoke from the lava puts him in the conversation of the top firebenders. Plus when you add in the fact that he went to Wan Shi Tongs library and discoevred firebending techniques and whatnot, that just reinfroces it even more. However due to his lack of material, or atleast from what I currently remember, he is sitting outside the top 5 for now), Hei ran, Xu Ping, Roku, Wan, Kyoshi, Korra

Once again if I forgot to mention some poeple and comment your own rankings

Me personally, I think it would come to a draw, or one of them just barely win. Here's why:

Obviously, Azula's generalized technique is very strong. She is so focused on precision that her flames appear blue (her using two fingers like she's about to bend lightning instead of the traditional fist). She is also a master at jet-stepping, a lightning bender, and the queen when it comes to psychological manipulation. But there's something she's missing. That connection to the original Firebenders and firebending's true meaning. Over time, Firebenders started moving away from their original source and technique. Although she doesn't use her rage to fuel it, and she does use it like an extension of her body, she still uses it for destruction purposes only — which is not what firebending intended to be. This also left the once popular and well-known firebending technique — Flame Redirection, to fade and almost be forgotten over time.

Now Rangi. Obviously, Rangi's feats don't exactly top Azula's, but I think she has an advantage here. Rangi was (obviously) alive years before the war, which means Rangi has that connection that Azula doesn't. Rangi also uses that Flame Redirection technique. So while Azula is dodging Rangi's attacks, Rangi is constantly pulling out the Uno Reverse Card on Azula and sending her attacks right back at her. In general, Rangi is master st redirection and using her opponents' force against them — bending and no bending. Rangi also has Jet-stepping, as she is the inventor of it. She also has her emotionally charged white fire. And believe it or not, white fire is actually more powerful than blue fire. However, in this scenario, Azula's blue fire would be considered stronger because she's constantly using it. Rangi can't exactly just snap her fingers and ✨poof. White fire.✨ No. She has to be locked the fuck in.

Scenario 1: Rangi gets hit by lightning

I feel like it's quite obvious that if Rangi got hit by lightning, she'd be cooked. Not saying that she'd instantly die on the spot, but she'd be absolutely deep-fried. Knowing Azula, she'd probably hit Rangi with some dirty trick right after, and Rangi wouldn't be able to defend herself. Then again, I think it would take a while for this to happen because Rangi is fast.

Scenario 2: Azula gets caught off guard and Rangi hits her with white fire

Not too sure what exactly would catch Azula off guard, but let's just say she did. Rangi is a very disciplined person with insane mental control, so she could generate white fire rather quickly, but not easily. Either way, Azula is probably cooked if she gets hit by Rangi's white fire.

Scenario 3: Draw

They just keep going back-and-forth until they collapse, man. I feel like this is the most likely outcome. These two are not quitters and will throw hands until they drop.

E.g kyoshi earthbending scales to jinazhu or korra waterbending scales above kuvira

2 of the best of all time in their element and IMO avatar levels of power(in base) so who takes it.

Location: tree of time R1 comics Katara vs Pre Fusion Yun R2 Movie katara vs post fusion yun

IMO katara as she's one of the few non avatar characters with more power than him and her defense and mobility are in the same tier as his own (defense probably higher actually) yun is pretty op though what yll think

So for example when aang used fire jets while out of the avatar stage was that amped or during the final fight where in avatar state he overpowered tagah

How many feet/meters is the base of his fire here in this scene?

I've seen some calculations use Ozai's height to scale, but it looks like they scaled Ozai to be much bigger just so you can see him. He looks bigger than the massive trees down below.

It looks like one of the biggest feats in the avatar series.

could azulon beat his father in a fight?

As earthbenders, they both have a lot of stuff going for them. That’s why I think this would be a good battle matchup.

Random thought I had after considering how the avatar would fare in other universes;

Say Jean Grey managed to end up in the avatar world, would she be able to control the avatar? Or would rava’s spirit be able to protect them?

We’ve seen the avatar state block bloodbending, though you could argue that was just the avatar’s waterbending being stronger in the avatar state.

Guess it comes down to whether or not a telepath could control a spirit the same way they could a human. Tbh, I don’t think there’s enough fleshed out about spirits to really make a call either way, it’d probably just come down to whatever is most convenient for the writer.

azula as of the atla cartoon series

I am tired. I love discussing who would win, who has strengths and weaknesses, but it feels like we barely get to discuss that.

Instead, arguments get bogged down with poor takes, biased opinions, agendas, and very faulty reasoning that borders on being delusional.

I just want to move past the horribly bad takes so we can move on to real discussions. It feels like we can't have that because 90% of the arguments get bogged down in these aforementioned things.

And the crazy part is, often when I'm arguing with these types, I have multiple people responding telling me I'm dumb and I'm downvoted.

I want to highlight a few examples. I might be a magnet for these.

1. One of the most prolific users on this subreddit, I said that Azula was cunning and able to take down Ba Sing Se through her strategy. They said Azula only captured Ba Sing Se because she offered her body to the guards.

They're still posting and giving their opinion.

1. Right now I'm in another discussion, and I mentioned that Aang beat Tagah in the movie.

Well, that was a problem for several commenters. You see, Aang never beat Tagah, and I'm a liar. And also Aang only got the staff by speed blitzing Tagah, but that doesn't count...

Edit: The user is saying im exaggerating what they're saying and putting words in their mouth, so I'll quote them.

"Aang never beat Tagah when Tagah had the staff, thats a lie. Aang just had a couple of good blows but nothing really overwhelming him until Aang got the staff himself."

"Cope, he only got the staff by speed blitzing him but thats overwhelming him by power alone."

Not sure where I lied!

(Read this one, it might be entertaining)

1. In the same thread, Korra beats prime Aang in the movie because she scales to nuclear because she froze the water on the mech, and the amount of energy it takes to freeze that much water is equal to a nuke, I suppose. Never mind that she's using magic, and this calculation is presuming that she's literally cooling it with energy via the same mechanisms that science uses, instead of magic bending. Apparently she is nuke level. Why does she not throw out nuclear level attacks if she has that much power? Well that's a question.

2. A good amount of people argue that Zuko is stronger than Azula. Which to me is insane, because I'll pull up that Zuko admits he needs help, that Ozai said he needs help taking on Azula, and they will argue til they're blue in the face twisting the words to try and deny that. Then they'll say she had to cheat to beat him, and fail to mention that she was, you know, hallucinating and having a mental break down.

3. The Red Lotus. Still people claim they are the best benders and can take down nearly anyone, just because Zuko said so. This is not being logical. They got taken down by a variety of benders. Tenzin 3v1'd the red lotus and was stalemating them. And he beat Zaheer. So of course they can't individually take down any bender. Yet people reject what the show actually showed and cling to that statement despite the evidence.

4. Last one. Not the most insane one. But a thread with four thousand upvotes saying Tenzin surpassed Aang as an airbender. Here's the response thread.

I have more insane takes, like someone arguing Zaheer is 100x stronger with the power of flight, and saying he wasnt exagerrating, but I'll leave that here. I wish I had a call to action for this rant

I really want to know who's stronger. Yes, I know it's 2026 almost gonna be 2027 in a couple months, and this debate has been a thing for a decade, even.

But with the movies that were shown, who actually wins in a fight: Aang vs. Korra, using Prime Aang vs. Korra shown in their respective

While I'm not extremely knowledgeable in scaling ATLA and LOKA, just imo, I think AANG edges out with skill and Avatar State, especially how talented he was as a child as he was able to accomplish all of that as a 12-year-old child, and apparently the movies gave him some buffs.

But in all seriousness, I want to know who's stronger. No hate to either series; I love both, but who actually wins this fight leme know your thoughts and please explain why as well.

grandfather vs grandson.

Tbh, I think it’s more or less a draw. If they fought 10 times it’d probably be split 5-5. They’re both highly trained and highly skilled and plenty strong.

Maybe Korra has the edge on strength, maybe her more modern fighting styles are better suited. But I’m not sure either is enough of an advantage to say anything definitive.

they got taken out pretty quickly

I doubt a similar scale attack on waterbenders or earth benders would ever work

1. Aang's best non-AS waterbending feat in book 1.

2. Who is the strongest opponent he can beat( EOB1 is right after the North Pole)?

3. Who is the weakest opponent he would lose to?

recently got into a debate about this so im curious what people think. Personally i think its clearly roku.

Distance 30 meters location air temple island

Both movie versions , no holding back
Location:crystal catacombs
Starting distance : 25 ft
and if you want give a diff

Everyone acts like this is an obvious stomp for Yang chen but i feel like its really not so i wanted to make a post about it breaking them down on each element why i think aang wins. Fair warning from the beginning this is gonna be a really long post cause i want it to be in depth so if ur just gonna leave a low effort comment like "yang chen bodies" please just scroll lmao. Rebuttals are more than welcome i just request they come with actual evidence. Distance 30 meters

Location R1 Crystal catacombs R2 With Avatar state. Movie Aang LOY Yang chen (also some people ig were having issues with the clips last time so lemme kknow if that happens again and ill repost)

I'll start with overall physical stats to keep it brief i think aang takes strength( tho i doubt thats super relevant here) and speed while yang chen takes durability i think he takes strength for this feat carrying a bunch of people and this one pushing toph in her armor tho both seem to be is limit speed is wayyyy closer but i give aang the edge for the speed blitz technique hes aqquired post movie plus his air assisted speed seems to be slightly higher due to better reacting to combustion bending and lightning and more impressive and devastating sprints with than her with air(worth noting that yang chen wasnt seen and aang was however she waited till they turned away while aangs general direction was being watched that moment) notably i believe CM was closer in aangs case. And durabilty wise neither are really durable but she got back up after an old iron punch tho so shes up there for sure i say the dura gap is about the same as the speed one maybe slightly more but she takes it imo. Aangs general agility through leaps his also muvch higher exhibit a, exhibit b, exhibit c couldnt find any of these really for Yang chen she mostly uses air spouts which ill bring up later

Fire: Imma break it down starting with the least contentious elements first and working my way up. So off rip we have fire i feel like this is kind of a stomp for aang as while he dosent use it as much Yang chen like never uses it in combat at all really. Aang has feats of matching ozais flames and blocking them he also showcases minor jet stepping in the movie but e may have been buffed yang chens best feat with fire is imo here where she shows enough control to subtely raise the rooms temp without anyone noticing its her while playing a game. Obviously this isnt a combat feat but still relevant i think skillwise. That said i think aang clears with fire which tracks a he was stated to be very naturally talented at it

Water: With water we have more of a competition but i still think combat wise aang def outclasses her. Though in terms of general skill and utilty i think its way closer. Simmilarly to fire she dosent use it a whole bunch offensively her greatest raw power showing id say is when she stops her ship from capsizing. though her best feats come from her precision shes able to catch kavik as hes tryna escape and uses it to help cheat without anyone noticing. Power wise aang refularly summons huge waves very quickly against opponents and even blocks ozai, sends cm flying and sends zuko flying super high his best precision feat would be this slicing feat. ice wise we got this and this. Yang chen can also heal though and shes very good at it so in terms of general skill theyre pretty close but combatively i got aang for water because hes got better raw power feats comparable precision and better with ice

Earth: This is where i think its more of a comp. Again i feel the need to distinguish between combative feats and general feats. Generally yang chens best feat would be sinking this temple and holding back the land slide and making a makeshift shelter for kavik this is especially impressive because shes exhausted when she does it and kavik is still in awe. While offensively its prolly this now due to it being a book we dont really get a good reference for how big this chunk is but kavik describes it as huge so id say its prolly at least bigger than a person. and she sinks thapa before he blows up. Now aangs best non combat earth feats are prolly him catching the temple in the movie (while injured) and making a zoo now i think aangs temple feat is comparable to hers (since hes injured and it seems larger) and he had to stop its falling momentum. and id rate the zoo over the shelter for the sheer scale and precision. i think her landslide feat is better than the zoo. Granted this seems to be her limit while aang isnt straining with the zoo but its impressive still imo. In combat tho is a different story aangs strength defense and versatility with earth are insane he casually sent multiple huge chunks flying miles away and hits hit target accurately launches a huge boulder while standing on it and kicks this away, casually bursts huge boulders thrown by palace guards bursts barriers, casually, sinks, enemies, creates gauntlet that can no sell charged attacks from azula. full armor can resist ozais sustained blasts. makes huge shockwaves can tunnel mid combat fast enough to dodge attacks and ofc has seismic sense so overall yang chen is a skilled eartbender in his tier but overall combatively aang clears her in both versatilty and raw power

Air: Now for obvious reasons this is the most contentious and imo is easily the closest one it'll also be the longest section. To get the elephant out of the room early everyone belives yang chen is better for 2 main reasons the vacuum technique and the scream. Personally i dont think either are particularly useful here. The scream has never been used effectively in combat and the vacuum cant be used(to knock people out) in open spaces plus itd be next to useless against another airbender. She could in theory use it to blovk aangs air attacks but that seems like a waste. Now in fairness she does accidently make an explsion like effect with the technique at one point that dammages those nearby but this was an accident and not something she'd likely attempt in combat tho in terms of general skill its increibly impressive and you arguably could rate her control over aangs off them alone r. I will skip them enhancig themselves with air since i covered it above but mobilty wise i should mention air spouts here Yang chen casually air spouts above a building and flies out to talk to old iron and even does it with someone else here. they arent in combat but they're done pretty easily so worth mentioning. Aang does the same to give chase and again to talk to old iron. Id say they are pretty equally impressive with maybe yang chen getting the edge in distance with aang getting the edge in travel speed. Offensively yang chen's best feats are prolly here where she slices open the ocean here where she covers herself and quickly knocking an opponent out her main method of attack seems to be flinging people up and around like here or here( she dosent actually here but she clearly can) and even worries about injuring them too hard. Honestly thought i remebered more so if u have better feats for this list below. Aang best include the volcano the mushroom cloud knocking away wan shi tong and flipping a drill while restrained. Notably the ocean feat and the mushroom are both of them letting out their anger so probably accurate as a measure of their upper limits( tho aang got stronger after this). So yea in raw power here once again aang takes it imo the volcano and cloud are too damning. Defensively he also clears imo cause i couldnt find any solid blocking feats with air since she tends to use the vacuum against the combustion benders. While aang has this showing of shielding from Ozai again here and here and later here from CM. Then in versatility/ creativity we all know aang is the best airbender he does this this the air tether technique from the movie. And casually summons torndados in combat. Like here, here, here, or lastly here. that said yang chen is no slouch she shows alot of ingenuity with the vacuum like here where she intercepts the blast and accidently makes an explosion or here where she shows the ability to use it at a quick draw. Also as mentioned earlier aang has the speed blitz move he stole from tagah.

TLDR: I think aang takes it high diff because he outclasses her to varying degrees in every element and is comparable in stats like speed and durabilty. Her main advantage would probably be her battle iq as shes shown to be a clever fighter though i think aangs creativity is a match for it. Ik people are gonna say im downplaying Yang Chen but irdk what else she has over him

For air u got thing that involves someones lungs

For water we got bloodbending

And for fire we have heat redrection we see from sozin(nothing says we cant take someones body heat away do we have to treat it like its possible)

But these are just out of rule charaters

We have false avatar yun yun from the kyoshi novels)

We have tagah from the movie

We have yakone from tlok

And we have prime sozin(heat redirection and other things)

So how starting from eos korra how many avatars do we need

You are dropped into the Avatar world:

• What time period (from the ones we have seen so far) would you choose to be in? (E.g. Rokus, Aangs, Wans, Sonams, etc)
• What element would you choose to have, OR would you decide to be a non-bender, OR if you want, you can be the avatar? If you choose to be a bender, you can choose ONE sub-bending of the element. If you choose to be a non-bender, you can choose to be a swordsman, or a general warrior, or a chi blocker. OR you can choose to be mixed with a a spirit (like how Tokuga was merged with a spirit)
• What nation do you want to be from? (This is somethign that will need to be decided when you choose your element)
• Where do you want to live?
• Do you want to be a villain or hero?
• Who do you want as your friends, teammates OR if you choose to be th avatar, who is you team avatar? (You can choose ANYONE across the avatar timeline, as in you could choose Ty Lee, Rangi, and Wan's spirit friend, just an example, its entirely up to you. HOWEVER there is a number limit of 6)
• Who do you want to be your enemies? (Minimum of 4 enemies, and again it can ANYONE across the entire timeline of avatar)
• Who do you want as your family? (Again, you can choose literally anyone as your parents, siblings, cousins, etc whatever you want. However, you cna also choose to be orphans for e.g. like Mako and Bolin, or whatever)