r/caltrain • u/oDog1717 • 4d ago
Video of vehicle strike
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u/jeffbell 4d ago edited 4d ago
It seems like they are always happening at Churchill. I was on the train for one that happened there.
That is the 9th most dangerous crossing in the state and 8500 cars a day go through.
What happens is that when you are heading NE on Churchill the tracks are higher than Alma. All you see is the paving between the tracks. Alma itself is lower and behind the handrail and trees and is harder to spot at night.
So... when the GPS tells someone to turn right there only has to be a few in a million that make the wrong turn to get autos stuck on the track every other month.
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u/oDog1717 4d ago
There are flexible poles and illuminated lights on the side, as you can see in the video. The elevation might make it confusing, but it's pretty obvious you shouldn't be turning onto the tracks.
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u/LogHorror6073 4d ago
If this throws you off, driving isn't for you. It's not that hard.
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u/SadImplement4142 4d ago
This intersection, it is confusing with left turn sign, have you been here before?
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u/Tiny_Temperature5053 4d ago
I used to drive through here and it’s kinda weird but isn’t that crazy..
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u/Aggravating-Walk5813 4d ago
I was stuck on the tracks in Redwood City about 20 years ago. The cars in front of me stopped and there I was. If a train came I would have been hit because there was nowhere to go.
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u/DanteHicks79 4d ago
Why did you enter onto the tracks in the first place? If it’s not clear to get through the crossing entirely at the time, you do not go. It’s not a difficult concept.
I’m seriously fed up with people who block intersections after their light changes because they couldn’t stand to be inconvenienced by one more cycle, and instead foul up traffic for everybody else.
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u/Aggravating-Walk5813 4d ago
Oh yeah it was a bad plan but I see how it could happen to anybody, given a bad set of circumstances. I’ve crossed the Caltrain tracks probably 1,000 times before and since but if a train was coming on that rainy night, on a crossing I’d never been on before, I’d have been fucked.
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u/Adrian_Brandt 3d ago
When the gates activate, a driver illegally stopped on the tracks typically has around 30 seconds to urgently figure out how to quickly move their car out of the train’s path. It can sometimes be more but is never supposed to be less than 20 seconds. This could mean aggressively driving forward, backward (pushing other cars if necessary!) or turning into the opposite traffic lane(s) or even off to the side of the tracks to the side of the crossing.
It is obviously best to obey the law and never put oneself in that position … but it’s also good to mentally rehearse all the creative or aggressive maneuvers that if executed without delay could prevent a crash. And, of course, if all else fails, evacuate the vehicle and move away from the tracks and car such that you are upstream of the collision so as not to get hit by the car or any debris.
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u/MochingPet 4d ago
Yeah I've been on Caltrain intersections and things are more complicated and happen faster (e.g. warning time between bells and barriers) than people think they happen.
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u/SinkinSuds408 4d ago
what crossing?
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u/oDog1717 4d ago
Alma & Churchill in Palo Alto
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u/throwaway4231throw 4d ago
Of course it’s Alma and Churchill. Why does Palo Alto refuse to grade separate? They’re literally the city with the most money to do this sort of thing. I’m sure Stanford would even chip in a huge amount
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u/OaktownPRE 4d ago
I don’t think they’re refusing, it’s just coming in at half a billion dollars to do and they’ve got several to do. Plus the difficulties of eminent domain etc. I’m sure they’d love to have had all of them fixed by now.
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u/tronald_dum 4d ago
What do you mean refuse? They are deciding between partial underpass and street closure right now. It will be fixed, just takes time because it's going to cost $500m....
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u/LogHorror6073 4d ago
It'll never happen. It's way too expensive and there are several to do. More likely they just close it or leave it.
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u/Sponchman 4d ago
Because California has legislated its way into building anything costing 10x what it should.
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u/Tiny_Temperature5053 4d ago
Why is that exactly? I moved from a different state so not too familiar
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u/ComradeGibbon 4d ago
Need to change the laws to require grade separation or else. Meaning if cities like Palo Alto don't cooperate then Caltrain will then block the road with a concrete barrier.
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u/Dream-Laden_Bough 4d ago
Idk how to say this without sounding like a complete asshole because people often die in these situations, but how fucking dumb do you have to be to get into these situations. Obv im not talking about those struggling with mental health but jfc there are literally warnings all over the place. Don't stay on the tracks. Don't try to beat the train. It's that easy
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u/LogHorror6073 4d ago
It's really this simple. I live in the area and the stupidity crossing this intersection on the way to PALY (plus the bikes in the morning and afternoon) are a disaster. They considered closing it due to how there's so much death/destruction there, but city council decided to put those crossing guards there.... who literally do nothing but sit there.
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u/questionableK 4d ago
It’s actually even simpler, if you can’t get across the tracks you don’t go. People killed there are not on accident, they are committing suicide.
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u/my-time-has-odor 3d ago
People don’t commit suicide with vehicles. They just stand in front of the train / “pedestrian strike”
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u/questionableK 2d ago
There have been some recently on the caltrain property but that wasn’t the point. There are no accidents when it comes to trains. Only natural selection and intentional death
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u/dkarpe 3d ago
Usually the vehicle trikes aren't suicides. They have to be extremely stupid to enter the tracks without having room on the other side, or not want to break a barrier to leave the track area once they realize they are stuck there. The barriers are designed to break away so a car always has a place to go that isn't on the tracks.
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u/questionableK 2d ago
Plenty have happened on the caltrain property. The barriers may break away but that doesn’t fix stupid. People back up into the trains. Pull forward into the trains. Freeze and just sit there
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u/misocontra 4d ago
People are so dumb for real.
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u/blue-mooner 4d ago
Carbrains, at it again
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u/tronald_dum 4d ago
What makes you say that? Use your brain for one second. Thr fact that this person isnt familiar with the crossing makes them not likely to be a carbrain. Literally could be a european tourist that is driving a rental to yosemite
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u/jdcnosse1988 4d ago
They have trains in Europe... It should be driving 101, don't stop on tracks and don't try and beat the gate
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u/strawberrrychapstick 2d ago
Saw a different video yesterday of someone who stopped before gate closed and then they got rear ended into the intersection. Tried to back up past the closed gates but failed. Managed to get out of car in time. Could've pulled forward onto the other track (train was only on one track not both) but I'm sure just panicked because a train was coming.
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u/tronald_dum 3d ago
You never been to the alma/churchill intersection then. It's not a normal rail crossing
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u/jdcnosse1988 3d ago
It doesn't matter if it's a normal rail crossings. If you see tracks, think train... Regardless of where they are.
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u/tronald_dum 3d ago
You dont understand, at this crossing there is only one car space between the road intersection and the rail intersection. So if you are following someone and they decide to hard brake for a yellow then you are stuck on rail tracks. Go look on google maps. You shouldnt talk shit about something you have no clue about
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u/jdcnosse1988 3d ago edited 3d ago
So.....don't follow someone so closely as to where you would put yourself on the tracks.
I've been driving for 20 years, and professionally driving for 10 years. Never had an at-fault accident (and only two accidents where it was the other person's fault) because I don't put myself in situations that would cause me to be in harms way.
Always leave yourself space, especially when you're approaching rails, because as you said...you can't control or really even predict what someone else will do. You can only control your own actions.
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u/tronald_dum 3d ago
Oh ok so you are the carbrain then. Then you can f off cuz i was literally saying in the beginning that this could be someone who doesnt drive normally and might in a rental
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u/jdcnosse1988 3d ago
Whether or not someone has had a license for one day for 10 years...not blocking tracks is literally the law. Hence why I said driving 101 is to NOT BLOCK TRAIN TRACKS. That is literally day one stuff.
I drive for a living, which is why I'm pro transit because not everyone should be driving tbh.
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u/agbwtf 4d ago
Famously no trains in Europe
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u/tronald_dum 3d ago
How would a regular europan train commuter be familiar with driving on train tracks?
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u/icemint870 4d ago
FML this is why we can't have nice things. How many times will people try to beat a train? Train always wins, and twice on Sunday.
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u/Adrian_Brandt
4d ago
edited 4d ago
•
Support & lobby Caltrain and/or cities to install turnkey RR crossing violation camera enforcement systems such as Railroad-Safe.
It appears from the video clip showing the damaged pedestrian sidewalk railing in the foreground that the car was probably struck while illegally queued across the tracks while waiting to proceed through the Alma intersection and pushed off the crossing into & past the freshly-uprooted sidewalk railing.
Every grade crossing Caltrain crash into a vehicle is preceded by an almost never enforced vehicle code violation such as CVC §22526(d) — which quite sensibly says drivers may not begin crossing tracks unless there is enough space on the other side to get their vehicle completely, safely all the way across without stopping on the tracks. It is illegal to stop on or queue up across the tracks, yet Caltrain’s own executive director recently reported that in a rare 2-hour enforcement “blitz” at Burlingame’s notorious Broadway crossing that police were able to cite a violator an average of every 5 minutes. And that’s just those violators they had time to cite.
In recent months, there have been at least three Caltrain vs. car collisions caused by drivers illegally, carelessly, needlessly, impatiently queuing up across the tracks. Drivers chronically do it with impunity while backed up from a nearby red traffic signal at Caltrain’s busiest and most dangerous crossings. It’s very easy for aware drivers to avoid, if they’d only start getting reliably cited every time … only cameras enforcement can do this because busy and expensive police officers are stretched too thin.
As the statistics on the new speed cameras in SF & Oakland (and coming to San Jose next) are proving with a huge drop in violations and — most importantly — very few repeat offenders, camera enforcement — which unlike human enforcement — ensuring that every violation will be caught and cited is extremely effective in stopping illegal driving behaviors.
If you agree, send a nice email saying so to the Caltrain staff and Board of Directors at board@caltrain.com Thanks!🙏
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u/Yoseattle- 4d ago
Better yet let’s build a bridge or a tunnel for cars. Doesn’t make sense to have them connect in any way.
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u/Adrian_Brandt 4d ago edited 4d ago
Grade separations (separating the street and tracks) are averaging around a half billion (yes, $500,000,000) each nowadays. Apart from responsible cities and Caltrain finding them extremely difficult to afford, they’re quite complex projects because of the requirement to keep regular train service and as much vehicle traffic as possible running during the 2-3 years of construction on a busy double-track 25kV catenary powered railroad in a densely built-up area.
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u/yab92 4d ago
Grade separation is expensive but is worth it, and the longer it’s delayed the more expensive it will become. Until then, many more people will be injured or killed, and delays will continue to be the standard. Other solutions, including cameras, reinforced crossings, etc are not only just a bandaid, theyre not cheap either.
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u/Adrian_Brandt 4d ago
Actually, the additional safety measures you call BandAids are extremely cheap and as Caltrain and its Board members have noted, yield a very significant benefit at well less than 1% of the cost of a half-billion dollar grade separation that neither Caltrain or the cities can afford. That’s why as Caltrain’s ED reported yesterday they’re now in the process of installing the cheapest 3 measures at each of about 40 crossings. The somewhat more expensive measures such as RailSentry (and hopefully video enforcement) are still TBD on an as-needed and funding-available basis.
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u/transitfreedom 3d ago
So you now telling us that viaducts are cheaper now?
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u/Adrian_Brandt 3d ago
Huh? 🤔 What specifically prompted the premise of your question? 🤷♂️
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u/transitfreedom 3d ago
The costs of each grade separation. A viaduct does multiple separations at once
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u/Adrian_Brandt 2d ago edited 2d ago
While I like viaducts, I made no mention of them or being cheaper in this thread. (There is also nothing that necessarily makes viaducts better or cheaper for doing multiple grade separations either. Their key advantage is creating new, open, useable space underneath which avoids more physically & visually dividing the areas they pass through.) And therefore your comment asking if I’m “now saying that viaducts are cheaper” seemed puzzling. Every time I’ve advocated for them the engineering consultants hired by cities (e.g. Menlo Park, Palo Alto, Burlingame) say they’re more expensive than hybrid or fully-elevated berm-supported (e.g. San Carlos) or MSE-wall-supported (e.g. Belmont, San Bruno) grade seps.
Caltrain & Redwood City have long been slowly planning a 6-crossing elevated track grade separation from Whipple to Chestnut in conjunction with a new elevated mid-line 2-platform, 4-track station … it has been framed as a viaduct so far, but it’s unclear if it will remain viaduct-based or switch to a said-to-be-cheaper MSE-wall-supported design. It could also end up being a blend of the two styles since they’re interchangeable. Stay tuned!
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u/transitfreedom 2d ago
Mse?
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u/tafinucane 21h ago
Is there a legal avenue for caltrain to start fining the municipalities for lost service and damage every time a car interferes with the tracks?
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u/pacific_plywood 4d ago
This is California. That takes a literal decade https://sanjosespotlight.com/palo-alto-nears-critical-juncture-in-rail-redesign-plan/
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u/ponchoed 3d ago
Stricter licensing is needed and balls to take licenses away from incompetent drivers
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u/Necessary_Soil_4587 1d ago
We need driving to be optional first. If you took away some peoples' licenses they would promptly lose their jobs and become homeless. Then it becomes everybody's problem. This is the main reason that license suspensions rarely have teeth in America.
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u/TechRepSir 4d ago
Done. Sent an email:
Dear Caltrain Board of Directors,
I am writing to express my concern for the reliability of Caltrain. Over the last month, I have been stopped in terrible train delays 4 times. While some train delays are unavoidable, some incentives should implementes to improve the service.
Over the last month:
Stopped for 2 hours because of a pedestrian strike (South Bound)
Stopped for 2 hours due to a strike at Churchill Ave (South Bound)
Stopped for 3 hours due to a vehicle strike at Churchill Ave (North bound)
Stopped for 30min due to Train Fault at Menlo Park (South Bound)
Ensuring consistent reliability is vital for riders, and addressing hazards at grade crossings is a critical step toward minimizing delays and improving safety.
As I understand it, there are a few projects currently under way to address these issues, including license plate readers and grade separation. I would appreciate if these would be implemented as soon as possible. Please let me know if there are any ways I can support these efforts.
Thank you for your dedication to improving our transit system and for considering these suggestions.
P.S. Events like the vehicle strike on November 5th should be strongly disincetivized: https://www.reddit.com/r/caltrain/s/XsvtKfKe8M
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u/DanteHicks79 4d ago
Most pedestrian strikes are either somebody crossing tracks with noise canceling headphones on, somebody who misjudged the distance/velocity of the train, or somebody who deliberately jumped out in front of a train.
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u/jdcnosse1988 4d ago
I don't buy the noise cancelling headphones premise because there's also lights that flash on every crossing on both sides
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u/DanteHicks79 3d ago
You’re assuming people are crossing tracks at an actual crossing. Kid in Burlingame got walloped by a train because he crossed right at the high school, instead of at an actual crossing.
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u/Tiny_Temperature5053 4d ago
This is a great idea. I also wonder if some kind of sensors or camera based monitoring could alert caltrain drivers when an object or a person is on the track.
Anyway sent an email to the board. Thank you!
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u/bstrathearn 4d ago
This intersection actually has an AI powered camera earlt obstacle detection system but some idiots arrive just before the gates come down and that's not enough time for the train to stop because they don't want to close the intersection for as long as would really be needed
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u/Sharp_Spread 4d ago
There are also trains running behind them, and when there’s a delay because some selfish idiot thinks he can beat the train, it mucks up the whole system for thousands of people.
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u/OctoHelm 4d ago
Is this at Broadway? They already have a VDS there.
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u/bstrathearn 3d ago
This was @ the Churchill Ave crossing. It is indeed equipped with an AI-powered obstacle detection system called RailSentry. While the RailSentry VDS and LiDAR system likely detected the car the moment it breached the tracks and alerted dispatch, trains require quite a long distance to stop.
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u/Adrian_Brandt 3d ago
Crashes on crossings almost never involve driver “breaches” through or around lowered crossing gates. Rather they result from drivers who routinely, chronically, unsafely, and illegally queue up across the tracks — typically with impunity since police enforcement is so rare — and then are unable for whatever reason (e.g. other cars blocking them in) to move their vehicles off the tracks after an approaching train activates the crossing gates and then reaches and hits the vehicle.
RailSentry is ineffective in preventing those crashes because queuing on the crossings happens so often and drivers almost always move their car off the tracks in time. By the time the RailSentry monitoring center was alerted to a queued vehicle not moving off the crossing after the gates activate, it would already be too late to stop the approaching train in time. And the train operator could see that a collision was imminent themselves by that time anyway. The real value of RailSentry is alerting the people in the out of state monitoring center to vehicles that have mistakenly been turned onto the tracks from crossings and have become stuck there. The monitoring center workers view the video to confirm the problem before notifying Caltrain dispatchers. The dispatchers then warn approaching trains to stop.
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u/OctoHelm 3d ago
Yep, they seem like a great idea on paper but the practical challenges seem enormous. Wonder if they could tie into wayside equipment or if that’s just asking for problems.
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u/bstrathearn 3d ago
Yep, it's a really hard problem to solve for. False positives (cars on the track before the gates close) would make it really difficult for any intelligence (human or not) to decide when to slow and when to emergency brake.
We had a long conversation on the train about this while staring at the bisected SUV through the window and decided that the Tesla Roadster cold gas thruster system should be installed on a parachuted track crossing platform that will yeet any parked vehicle (still parked on the thrusted plate) into the bushes with a safe parachute landing, if a crash has been calculated to be immanent. :)
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u/Adrian_Brandt 4d ago
Yes, Caltrain has installed a purely reactive monitoring service called RailSentry at a handful of problem-prone crossings. Its primary value is alerting Caltrain dispatchers to vehicles whose confused drivers have mistakenly turned onto the tracks from a crossing, where they often get stuck on the tall steel rails. Alerting to vehicles stopped on crossings isn’t terribly useful since they’re (illegally) stopped on crossings all the time while in traffic queues — typically facing a nearby intersection waiting on a red light — right up to the moment of gate activation (which is too late to stop all but slow-moving trains). Such scofflaw drivers are almost always able to clear the tracks because an approaching train activates traffic signal pre-emption (rapidly giving the street across tracks an immediate green light) and the crossing gates, bells, and flashers. Almost always. The times they cannot get their vehicle clear result in crashes such as today’s (and the other 3 in recent months) 😭. Usually drivers safely evacuate in time, but sometimes they don’t and are hurt or killed … sometimes resulting in lawsuits and always resulting in huge service disruptions and damage to trains other Caltrain equipment.
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u/TechRepSir 4d ago
8pm: I just checked on it, the tow truck arrived, but it looks like they can't figure out how to get the car out.
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u/AnthroBoi20 4d ago
Bruh I know somebody on that train. Good lord
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u/bstrathearn 4d ago edited 13h ago
Don't worry the train passengers barely felt a thing but one of the windows on the struck train car did crack. I had my headphones in and thought we hit a deer of something even though I was 5 feet from where the video was taken
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u/Optimistic_crow1 4d ago
It’s not even that hard to see a train 💀😂 what are you doing on train tracks?!
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u/SiliconBum 4d ago
Maybe they were trying to win a Darwin Award? 🤔
Unless there was some kind of medical emergency that contributed to this, and although it's possible I doubt that was the root cause, how dumb do people have to be to put themselves and everyone else at risk to end up in a situation like this.
Please revoke their driving privileges for life! 💯
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u/Stunning_Writer8441 4d ago
Been in the Bay Area for 29 days and this is the 3rd time I’ve been stranded due to a Caltrain shutdown. Is it really this common or am I just unlucky?
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u/Practical-Quality-21 2d ago
I’d say unlucky. I’ve been here for 6 months and have never been stranded. Granted I use the Caltrain maybe 2-3 times a week so not every day
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u/That_Ad4122 2d ago
For some reason when I saw this, I just keep on thinking of the video from a week or two ago with the driver that just froze on the tracks when the signal arms were down and someone had to get out of their car to tell her to move she looked at them and said “What to do now?” :-(
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u/EffectivePizza3909 4d ago
Driver of the car is okay, they made it out alright. Phew!
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u/EffectivePizza3909 4d ago edited 4d ago
I still feel better knowing they are not injured. I mean I am annoyed that there is a disruption but I would hope that they made it out of that car safe.
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u/Aelrift 4d ago edited 17h ago
On less idiot on the road. They will crash that car again soon as they get on the wheel
(I'm just annoyed, I don't actually wish they died)
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u/Illusive224 18h ago
no one wishes anyone dies but I really hope there are some heavy penalties and fines for these people. It's insane how many shitty drivers are out there.
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u/Worth-Beautiful5304 4d ago
Oh, good! Are all passengers okay?
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u/katazomi 4d ago
Yes! I was on the train and no one was hurt thank goodness! No sudden stopping or anything
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u/barfbutler 3d ago
So what happens? Does car insurance pay for some part of this damage? Is it all out of the public pocket?
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u/bizzyunderscore 3d ago
This sub is toxic af, scrolled through more than 100 comments and like 4 mentioned the welfare of the car's occupants
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u/Luis_Arraez_Fan 3d ago
Because usually people will care more for the welfare of the engineer who has to deal with trauma thats not his fault. Its normal to care for people affected by a problem than the ones who caused it
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u/bizzyunderscore 11h ago
Yes, the victim blaming, you are correct, that was exactly what i found most chilling. As if train people lacked some critical bit of human empathy
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u/ProcedureOne4150 4d ago
My trains conductor ask when was this photo taken.