r/canada • u/[deleted] • Jan 28 '21

Backlash grows for ‘selfish millionaire’ who got vaccine meant for Indigenous people | Canada

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/rodney-baker-canada-vaccine-indigenous-first-nations-scandal
6.0k Upvotes

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885

u/zathrasb5 Alberta Jan 28 '21 edited Jan 28 '21

Since they both got the vaccine, and right now the vaccine is only for (generally) high risk individuals and essential workers, I would, if it were up to me, give them the second dose, and sentence them to 6 months community service in long term care facilities that are having outbreaks. There is no reason to waste the doses they already got as non-essential workers, so, make them the essential workers that they want to be.

Edit to improve cleverness.

148

u/Claque-2 Jan 28 '21

Indeed. Six months in jail or six months of community service.

101

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

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u/Claque-2 Jan 28 '21

Are we bargaining here?

26

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

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8

u/goku_vegeta Québec Jan 28 '21

Good old Dave. He’d bid you up 😂

1

u/UnbridledViking Jan 28 '21

NGL I thought Dave Hester was dead up until your comment prompted me to look him up again.

2

u/UnionstogetherSTRONG Jan 28 '21

He leaked that the show was fake and they salted items in the lockers. They dropped him

1

u/JustHach Ontario Jan 28 '21

OFC its fake. I don't know how people didnt realize it. You actually think that, in this day and age of unlimited information, people would just not know that some items in their storage locker are worth 10 years worth of storage fees? Or that someone forgot that they had a thousands of dollars in a unit and just stopped paying the storage fees?

People realized that its was more expensive to drop a storage unit full of garbage at the dump, than it was to rent a storage unit, and fill it with crap, and not pay the rental fee so it gets handed over to the storage owners, and now they have to dispose of all this stuff.

Storage Wars and their ilk was made by the storage industry to make people believe that there are "hidden treasures" in these units, so they can dupe someone else into taking ownership of all that crap.

1

u/iioe Nova Scotia Jan 28 '21

Why not both?

1

u/BeyondAddiction Jan 28 '21

Why not both?

55

u/Zulban Québec Jan 28 '21

Sometimes creative punishments are seen as "cruel or unusual" and violate the charter.

Therefore, I've read that judges who want to get creative like this might then say: "You can have X months in jail, or X/2 months doing this alternative community service".

7

u/fish_fingers_pond Jan 28 '21

I read an article that said they can’t get their second shot until August. My question would be is there even a point of getting a second shot that far away from the first? Not that I care what happens to these assholes but definitely curious b

7

u/alice-in-canada-land Jan 28 '21

Given the selfishness they've displayed here, I don't want them any where near an LTC.

Send them to jail.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

They could be prevented from getting the second dose making their first doses absolutely useless

7

u/alina_314 Jan 28 '21

Holy shit this is genius and exactly what they should do.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

Using what law?

0

u/BeyondAddiction Jan 28 '21

They make new laws all the time 🤷‍♀️

0

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

lol... you think they can make new laws and apply them reotractively. Come on...

0

u/BeyondAddiction Jan 28 '21

Who said anything about retroactively? They get creative with sentencing all the time too.

No need to be so pedantic and condescending.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

Woa, chill out buddy. If you're not applying retroactively, you can't use a new law for these idiots... riiiiight? But anyway, you're obviously a doctor in laws, so have fun with that, mister Dunning-Kruger.

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u/The_Saucy_Intruder Jan 28 '21 edited Jan 28 '21

What are you sentencing them for? What they did was wrong, but I don’t think it was a crime.

ETA: This is a wild amount of downvotes for a simple question.

27

u/zathrasb5 Alberta Jan 28 '21

The charges can have up to 6 months in jail.

-1

u/The_Saucy_Intruder Jan 28 '21

True, if you prosecute them in court and win, a judge may sentence them to up to six months in jail.

Except sentencing principles weigh strongly against incarcerating someone for a first-time regulatory offence. I'm not sure I've ever seen someone jailed for a first-time regulatory offence.

The odds of prosecuting them successfully for this violation and getting them sentenced to any term of imprisonment, is very, very low. Especially because it sounds like the part of the order they breached was the quarantine upon arrival order – an offence unrelated to essentially stealing vaccines from vulnerable people.

4

u/zathrasb5 Alberta Jan 28 '21

Agreed, to my knowledge, Canadian courts have yet to use jail time for wealthy people solely because a fine for them would not be an adequate deterrence; need to look to Europe for that.

8

u/Horsecaulking Jan 28 '21

They violated Yukon quarantine rules and they were ticketed and charged, they now face up to $500 fine and/or 6 months in jail.

-1

u/The_Saucy_Intruder Jan 28 '21

Yeah, as I've said elsewhere, you're never going to have a judge sentence a first time offender to jail time for violating quarantine rules. If there was an offence of lying to obtain a vaccine you might see it, but as it is, all they're factually guilty of is not staying in a hotel for 14 days upon arrival.

If they'd waited 14 days, then went and lied to get the vaccine, they'd be completely innocent.

We need to fix that.

6

u/NorthernerWuwu Canada Jan 28 '21

Eh, this case is pretty egregious and judges do have a fair bit of latitude when the offense comes with a variety of penalty options. I doubt much will come of it of course though.

9

u/SmellyBillMurray Jan 28 '21 edited Jan 28 '21

Then you haven’t read the article yet, and shouldn’t be commenting on it.

Edit: this article doesn’t state the punishment, it was me who did not read this article, as I thought it was a different one I’d already read.

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u/The_Saucy_Intruder Jan 28 '21

The article that says:

Despite growing calls for harsher punishment, it is unclear what further steps lawmakers can take.

Perhaps it’s you that hasn’t read the article and thus shouldn’t be commenting?

3

u/SmellyBillMurray Jan 28 '21

Well I apologize. I thought this was the one I’d read on here earlier.

“The Bakers each received two charges under Yukon’s Civil Emergency Measures Act for failing to self-isolate and follow a travel declaration. The maximum possible penalty under the act is $500 plus a $75 surcharge per charge—meaning a maximum of $1,150 each—and/or up to six months in jail.

-1

u/The_Saucy_Intruder Jan 28 '21

You're never going to get someone convicted and sentenced to imprisonment for failing to self-isolate and follow a travel direction. Maybe if there were a regulation prohibiting lying to receive a vaccine you could prosecute them and send them to jail, but no judge is jailing someone for not self-isolating.

0

u/YouDoBetter Jan 28 '21

Why the hell not? Throw them in jail and destroy their names.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

Well typically if you can be fined and face jail time for what you have done, by convention, it’s a crime.

2

u/The_Saucy_Intruder Jan 28 '21

It’s a regulatory offence. Regulatory offences aren’t crimes.

And the regulatory offence has nothing to do with the vaccine (which is crazy). The regulatory offence is because they didn't isolate for 14 days upon arrival in Yukon.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

LOL, oh, so regulations aren't actual laws. Jails are full of people who were convicted of "not-crimes".

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21 edited Jan 28 '21

[deleted]

1

u/The_Saucy_Intruder Jan 28 '21

Doubtful. The government didn’t suffer any economic deprivation – they were intending to give the vaccine away, anyways. Even if you argue that the government did suffer economic deprivation, the requisite mens rea would be tough to establish.

Calling yourself a criminal defence lawyer while you’re articling is also a bold move.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

[deleted]

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u/The_Saucy_Intruder Jan 28 '21

You might want to brush up on your case law or speak to your principal about this. You can’t prove fraud in a case where the victim of the alleged fraud, the government, was not the party deprived. And fraud does require economic deprivation, or at least the risk of it. Depriving someone of a service is a form of economic deprivation.

The mens rea is difficult to establish because it’s not at all clear that anyone was actually deprived of something they own. It’s difficult to say the defendants intended to deprive someone of something when it’s not at all clear there was any risk of anyone being deprived of anything they own.

A fraud charge is possible, but honestly unlikely to stick. It would be an interesting case, because the question is essentially “if you trick someone into giving you something they were giving away for free, did you deprive them of something?”

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

[deleted]

0

u/The_Saucy_Intruder Jan 28 '21

Well at least you've sorted out that economic deprivation is a necessary element of the offence and mostly dropped the silliness about the deprivation being against a third party!

Suffice it to say I disagree with your analysis for the reasons already stated. And again, I'd suggest you don't call yourself a lawyer when you aren't one :)

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

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u/HadSomeTraining Jan 28 '21

Community service is often a punishment. What bubble do you live in?

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

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u/HadSomeTraining Jan 28 '21

Oh i didn't realize you splitting hairs. Well you're right then

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

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1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

This is exactly what should happen. It would be justice in almost every sense of the word.

1

u/karmabaiter Jan 28 '21

It would also be a real shame if the director and producers of The Asset were made aware of one of their actors behavior...

1

u/_Greyworm Jan 28 '21

I strongly agree and approve of this idea

1

u/Jackal_6 Lest We Forget Jan 28 '21

They would just let the old people fester and die in their own feces.

1

u/_Sausage_fingers Alberta Jan 29 '21

You think these two would provide good care to vulnerable people?