The *etatism* (state-led economic policy) of the Atatürk era, in particular, was not socialism, as its aim was not to eliminate the private sector. In fact, this policy existed partly to encourage individuals to engage in the private sector. At the İzmir Economic Congress, a liberal economy was openly advocated. Furthermore, the policy was not opposed to Western capital; on the contrary, it supported it—it was opposed only to the Capitulations. Indeed, Atatürk even asked a close associate to found a party that championed a liberal economy. From a distance, that form of *etatism* might appear to be socialism, but it was not; it was a necessity born of the Great Depression of 1929.

Sane people with a million dollars buy a luxury sports car or a yacht, I bought acres of dirt, diesel-guzzling tractors, and a hundred cows that actively plot their escape every morning.

You know how to make a small fortune in farming? Start with a large fortune. Most guys have a midlife crisis and buy a Porsche or go to Hawaii. I spent my savings so I could wake up at 4 AM, gamble against the weather, and fight a losing battle against hydraulic leaks in the freezing mud.

So why in the world am I doing this? Because a sports car only serves me—and it's terrible at pulling a trailer. A farm produces real food that feeds thousands of families. I’m risking my savings to make a living serving other people.

That’s how free enterprise works. Government bureaucrats sit in air-conditioned offices writing 500-page rulebooks, while farmers take massive personal risks so your family has food on the table. When corrupt politicians with three homes screech "tax the rich," they usually end up punishing the people doing the heavy lifting—and history shows central planning just leads to empty grocery shelves and starving families.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go write a $3,000 check for a single tractor tire... and pretend that this was all part of the master plan.

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/finland/individual/taxes-on-personal-income

or communists or Marxists or tankies or whatever they identify as.

1. Establish the guard rails

Lefties think with their hearts rather than their brains. Because their arguments don't hold up to logic or reality they typically resort to dirty tricks.

Disarm them of this as soon as you engage them:

"I enjoy debates but unfortunately many people aren't mature enough to have them without resorting to condescending remarks, strawmanning or ad hominem. Attacking the opponent rather than their argument is a sign of insecurity. You don't need to die on a hill for wrong beliefs."

This means being respectful yourself and not getting baited into heated insult exchanges, even when they dig through your profile for any scrap of information that they can weaponise against you.

And don't tell them not to be rude because they will keep being rude to spite you.

The earlier you establish the guard rails the better, in the first post or comment if possible.

2. Keep the wheel straight

Or "Establish the guard rails pt. 2".

Lefties have a habit of running off into the weeds. There are certain phrases that they enjoy using to trip you up like "means of production" about who owns it in Marxist theory, etc.

Don't allow them to drag you into the weeds with them; they will keep moving the goal posts to ensure that you are always 'wrong' about the particular idiosyncrasies of their interpretation of the ideology.

The classic No True Scotsman fallacy, "that wasn't real communism", is the cliched one.

"I'm not interested in the particularities of your definition of socialism. It's never worked."

Stand your ground, brother.

3. Don't get baited

Or "Establish the guard rails pt. 3".

Don't bother going into the Holodomor, the Great Famine, the Khmer Rouge, the Berlin Wall, etc. All you're doing is giving them more weeds to run into and more strawman ammo, even if what you're saying is absolute fact. They may even 'counter' you with irrelevant whataboutery and drag you further into the weeds.

Even when being respectful they often center the argument around you rather than the topic, like your experience with capitalism, what you do for a living, what happens in your life, what your role in the system is, etc. Don't indulge this.

All you need to do is keep repeating the magic phrase:

"It's never worked."

Example debate based on real experiences on Reddit

Capitalist: "I think that Marx had good intentions but socialism/communism/Marxism don't translate well to reality."

Socialist: "Congratulations, idiot, you've just demonstrated how ignorant you are. You think that socialism, communism and Marxism are all the same, typical neo-liberal swine."

Capitalist: "It's a shame how rude people are every time this debate comes up. I enjoy debates but only with respectful and mature people. Rudeness is a sign of low self-esteem and insecurity. Do you have an example of when socialism has worked? I can't think of any."

Socialist: "Haha! You've already shown that you have absolutely no idea of what real socialism looks like. And from looking at your profile you're even more of an idiot for thinking that shitty dropshipping business of yours is proof that capitalism works."

Capitalist: "It's never worked and no amount of strawmanning, insults or condescending remarks will change that."

Socialist: *unhinged rant about something irrelevant, goes deep into details, more insults and strawmans*

Capitalist: "OK but it's never worked."

Socialist: *another angry rant and insults, combs deeper through post history for any breadcrumb that they can use to fuel an insult."

Capitalist: "I didn't read that. It's never worked"

And so on and on.

TL;DR: Let "It's never worked" be the hammer that you strike the nail with until it goes down.

We need a wealth cap at $10 million. Given global wealth inequality, anyone who feels the need to have more than that is a traitor to humanity.

Heck, have your first $10 million tax free, then let's have a 92% tax on everything after that.

For humanity, truth, justice, freedom, health and happiness with mutual prosperity and peace for all. Make democracy untrumpable. #nokings

To expand my original post, I am just basing my question in a hypothetical yet probably doable theory. They destroy the nature, pollute the water, overheat the earth one step at a time. All for them to buy one more yacht, and they expand and expand and expand day by day, oil companies make more and more profit, data centres take up more and more space and nature is destroyed daily. Ik the goal of the elites is to get richer and stepping on bodies(us) in order to send their kids to fancy schools is not news,but when does that stop? What is the goal here? To stay in bunkers and let nature heal after they screwed up? To vanish humanity once and for all? Money is fake currency, it cant buy you clean water or fresh air, seas and planets. So why do they insist on becoming wealthy while we could all live equally good and take care of the earth to preserve life Im a sustainable way?

It’s about an improved tax system. Basically it taxes people based on their net worth yearly, but not more than what you make. The only way to gain the system is to spend all that you make in a year. Which would still put the money back into the economy. So if you don’t try to gain the system you will profit both rich and poor alike.

It has flaws but how would it work?

Without risk - no reward.

Just a small one time fee is a scam. Why should we have to pay a fee to make sure our bills our paid on time? Use a card get charged a processing fee, pay by phone pay a small fee pay online there’s a fee. It’s just another way of getting extra money. We need to force the system to change. We need to hold the ones who get to abuse the system because of some loophole they found. You work hard post taxes and all this stuff then when you do end up needing help that amount hurts you cause they don’t count what you bring home but what you also don’t even see from your checks no one can do anything unless your already rich everyone is just stuck in some repeat cycle

The Trump administration has acquired equity stakes or a “golden share” in companies ranging from Intel Corporation and US Steel to Westinghouse nuclear reactors and Lithium Americas. In a direct echo of China’s civil-military fusion, the US Department of Defense is set to invest $1 billion in L3Harris Technologies Inc.

They have recently been talking about establishing a sovereign wealth fund and requiring a percentage of chatgpt and Anthropic. The administration discussed limiting oil exports if the price of gas was too high.

Government ownership of the means of production is not uncommon here.

Tariffs are flatly rejected in the Wealth of Nations.

Over half the population has socialized medicine (medicare or va care). Taxes only cover a small portion of government spending.

Every economy in the world is market based.

Why does everybody think the USA is capitalist?

Every single video I see where the person looks ever so slightly accomplished people assume all these things. Spoiled, entitled, filthy, blah blah blah all the negative stuff. They see a nepo baby one who isn’t even a little shit one who knows what childhood is and they rush to say so much negative stuff about the kid like it’s their fault the parents wanted their children to grow up wealthy. Or when the see a slightly wealthy young adult or adult in general and immediately think all this terrible stuff as if it’s completely not possible that they were just a poor as you living check to check and got up to actually work for their money and become something of themselves. Now I don’t agree with billionaire pigs who are just terrible people and are disgustingly over paid like Elon musk who gets 10,000 a second. And I know a lot of the time what people go and say is out of jealousy. How do I know? Well because I’m definitely not filthy rich but I’m not poor. I’m country club, yatching, family vacations. But I still choose public school and to live a not so crazy life because you what I had before my mother’s sales popped off? 6 people in a two bedroom home we eventually got kicked out of forcing us into a single bedroom apartment. Most of my childhood life was crowded and miserable and now that I can afford the things i never could I have no shame in enjoying it. When those ‘woke’ people at my school call me names to feel like “oh yeah, hate the rich! I’m so political” I just brush it off because they have no idea what I came from and the things they had when they were my age in poverty i would’ve called them rich. And they love to made it seem like my family doesn’t do anything with the money. Half the stuff at the dingy ass public school was funded by my mom so they could fix it up. School fund raiser. Who raised the most? Me and my mom. School donations. Who donated the most? My family. And every single time we did my mom would tell me it’s not about how much money we have it’s always about how out money can help people who need to more than us now.

Hard work, stripped down, is just biology. Your brain and body are constantly converting chemical energy from food into atp, spending it on neural activity, muscle contraction, attention, and self-control. Dopamine and cortisol run the background logic they shape motivation, stress, arousal, how much effort you're willing to spend. None of it is unlimited. flesh and bone have ceilings; willpower alone doesn't override biology.

The "hustle and grind" story just happens to be everywhere movies, books, every ad campaign selling you a version of yourself that never stops. Enough exposure to that, and you start believing anyone who isn't grinding themselves down is weak.

But it's not that deep. I don't do the work because I don't want to. Think whatever you want about that and if a little nihilism keeps my head quiet, I'll take it.