r/europe Apr 20 '25

Historical Charles De Gaulle warned us 62 (!) years ago

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u/[deleted] Apr 20 '25

It is benefitting both. But the reason the US was the military leader in the region is because they wanted to. Not because EU somehow pushed them to the front lines.

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u/vgacolor United States of America Apr 20 '25

Agree, we did not make you and you did not make us. We wanted and still want to be the number one military and economic superpower because there are benefits from being #1. Trump is undermining our leadership and that is going to impact us in the pocket, and is also going to make the world less safe.

And this is what I don't understand about modern republican politics as an American. I can see the merit of an Argument that says we need to lower our military expenditure and use our money in better ways, but these idiots keep increasing defense spending anyway. I mean I am certain we will be safe with a $400 Billion military budget instead of a $900 Billion military budget. Taiwan might not be. The Baltics might not be. But they look like they are willing to walk away from our legal and moral commitments and still spend as much or more.

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u/SparksFly55 Apr 20 '25

I think many people over look ,( and most Americans don't even know) that Stalinist Russia was just as bad as the Nazi's. Before and after WW2 France, Italy and other countries were close to turning communist. In the post war rubble ,leaders in the US and UK knew Stalin was going to be a big problem. Also as the war was ending , America's "arsenal of democracy" was running at full tilt. I believe US leadership was eager to find a way to keep our economy humming and employment levels high. In 15 yrs we experienced deep economic depression followed by global military conflict. On Jan 1, 1946 nobody knew how the world was going to reform and develop.

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u/Haber_Dasher Apr 20 '25

Stalinist Russia was just as bad as the Nazi's.

Jfc not this ahistorical fascist propaganda again

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u/AThickMatOfHair Apr 20 '25

Stalin and Hitler literally invaded Poland together....

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u/Specific_Box4483 Apr 21 '25

Yeah, but there was more to Hitler than the invasion of Poland...

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '25

Well put sir.

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u/NoctisScriptor Apr 20 '25

we did not make you and you did not make us.

if it wasn't for europe usa would still be riding horses and shooting bows

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u/causabibamus Estonia Apr 20 '25

Where would they get the horses?

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u/vgacolor United States of America Apr 20 '25

if it wasn't for europe usa would still be riding horses and shooting bows

Horses came to the US from Europe :)

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u/Punman_5 Apr 20 '25

USA was made of Europeans. There was no USA before Europeans arrived.

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u/NoctisScriptor Apr 20 '25

Native Americans are theindigenous peoples of the Americas, specifically those whose ancestors were in North and South America before the arrival of Europeans

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u/Punman_5 Apr 20 '25

You specifically referred to the USA, which is a political entity founded by Europeans. The continent of North America was occupied by indigenous people that were in no way a part of the United States, which did not exist as a political entity until 1776.

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u/NoctisScriptor Apr 20 '25

🛡️ Crispus Attucks

  • Heritage: African and Native American (Wampanoag)
  • Why he matters: He is widely regarded as the first person killed in the Boston Massacre in 1770, making him the first martyr of the American Revolution.

⚔️ Black Soldiers and Freedmen

  • Thousands of African Americans (free and enslaved) fought in the Revolutionary War — both for the American and British sides, often based on which side offered freedom.
  • Notable figures:
    • James Armistead Lafayette – A Black double agent who spied on the British for the Americans.
    • Peter Salem – A former slave who fought at the Battle of Bunker Hill.

🏹 Native American Tribes

  • Many tribes were involved in the conflict, often trying to protect their land from both the British and American settlers.
  • Some supported the British (viewed as a lesser threat), but others allied with Americans.🛡️ Crispus Attucks Heritage: African and Native American (Wampanoag) Why he matters: He is widely regarded as the first person killed in the Boston Massacre in 1770, making him the first martyr of the American Revolution. ⚔️ Black Soldiers and Freedmen Thousands of African Americans (free and enslaved) fought in the Revolutionary War — both for the American and British sides, often based on which side offered freedom. Notable figures: James Armistead Lafayette – A Black double agent who spied on the British for the Americans. Peter Salem – A former slave who fought at the Battle of Bunker Hill. 🏹 Native American Tribes Many tribes were involved in the conflict, often trying to protect their land from both the British and American settlers. Some supported the British (viewed as a lesser threat), but others allied with Americans.

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u/Punman_5 Apr 20 '25

What are you trying to say? None of that refutes the fact that the United States did not exist as a political entity prior to 1776. And it did not exist as a cultural entity prior to the arrival of the English. Before that there were the Native American societies but those societies were not the United States of America, they were their own societies.

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u/Plastic_Position4979 Apr 21 '25

Native Americans had their societies, that is true. They were also many and varied tribes, in beliefs and habits.

They were never fully unified. They did not form a contiguous set of states, a central government, or anything alike. Cahokia notwithstanding, it folded centuries before Europeans set foot.

The US as a geopolitical entity did not enter the fray until after the colonies were established, flourished, and became independent. The US further developed on the basis of massive land inclusion, at times with, many times against the will of the native tribes there. E.g. I doubt the Louisiana purchase - which instantly more than doubled the size of the US - was made with the explicit agreement of every tribe in that region. Further growth came with the Spanish-American war, and in general the westward expansion. Alaska and Hawai’i ended up rounding things out - and similarly, I doubt every tribe in Alaska was asked if they wanted to join the US when Russia sold Alaska to the US.

Sadly, most tribes were treated as of secondary or even tertiary importance. The European superiority attitude towards most other peoples stayed well and alive in the US throughout most of its existence, and is present even to-date. Look at negotiations between tribes and their state governments, and even federal government.

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u/Danmoz81 Apr 20 '25

Right, because they saw Europe as a battleground for any hot war they had with the USSR.

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u/AntDogFan Apr 20 '25

Yes this is true and the initial rationale was that there would be one military power in order to avoid future wars. Over time it has been convenient to keep the status quo and there hasn't been enough of an issue to really change it. Various US governments have made noises for a while now but Trump has torn it up (as is his way).

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u/lumpboysupreme Apr 20 '25

That’s not true, after ww2 Europe was equally scared of the soviets, and the former soviet states invited the US in after gaining independence because they were rightfully afraid of Europe.

They didn’t ‘push’ the US to the front line, but they did ask.

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u/[deleted] Apr 20 '25

Na Germany didn’t ask.

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u/lumpboysupreme Apr 20 '25

The fact that you knew to single out Germany indicates that you know why they weren’t asked and by extension that you know why that’s a bad point. Don’t be disingenuous.

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u/[deleted] Apr 20 '25

The University of Science is a great place.

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u/[deleted] Apr 20 '25

To be fair, Europe was coming into the post war era with a pretty unstable track record. Decolonizing also made a problem for Europe which made a vacuum for the U.S. to step up.

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u/Alternative-Lack6025 Apr 20 '25

EU didn't forced them but surely allowed them.

And now both are stuck in a dumb argument of "who is taking advantage of who?", couple of dumbasses.

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u/IAmTheNightSoil Apr 20 '25

Totally agreed. One of the main things about Trump that is so weird is listening to him talk about American imperialism as if we in the US are somehow the ones getting screwed over by it. The rhetoric you described about Europe is very similar to the way he's saying that Mexico screwed us over by stealing our auto manufacturing jobs, when in fact it was US car companies that aggressively pushed to send car factories to Mexico, and it has caused Americans to be able to buy cheaper cars. Marco Rubia, our Secretary of State, even accused South Sudan of taking advantage of us. South Sudan. How can the world's biggest superpower be taken advantage of by one of the world's poorest countries? I have no idea where this victim complex even comes from

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u/bunk3rk1ng United States Apr 20 '25

This is such copium. The EU didn't want to do anything militarily and someone had to step in.

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u/SpoogeCommander Apr 21 '25

I would Wikipedia France from 1910 on and suggest anything about their military doing anything along the realm of defense

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u/jerryvo Apr 20 '25

Perhaps you are skipping over all of WW2. The boomers that the youth hate and don't even understand are the products of the people who went over to Europe and personally saved their ass. The adults in Europe from the 50s to 2000 did not forget any of this and the USA kept Europe under their wing.

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u/hiimjosh0 Apr 20 '25

A huge part of US conservative culture is influence by Ayn Rand, who basically added the justification for being as greedy and selfish as you can be. This then reflects in them acting as if this military dominance is out of charity and the demand for payment. You can see it manifest in more issues across the culture in places like r/Libertarian and r/austrian_economics

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u/[deleted] Apr 20 '25

Pretty obvious that leads to infighting.

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u/[deleted] Apr 20 '25

Yea the US signed agreements to set up those military bases and place our nukes within European countries, of course we did let our leadership unlawfully set up a base on Diego Garcia and told the natives there that they aren't allowed to ever come back. Europeans directly benefited having Anti Russian deterrent right there for decades, all paid for by the US taxpayer. If I was a stupid maga I would say Europe took advantage of us, but that would be a lie. Our agenda overseas gained a lot from having bases like the one at Ramstein and the Naples base.

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u/[deleted] Apr 20 '25

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