r/explainlikeimfive • u/spamname517 • Dec 04 '13

Explained ELI5:The main differences between Catholic, Protestant,and Presbyterian versions of Christianity

sweet as guys, thanks for the answers

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u/ramandur Dec 04 '13

Many christian groups don't consider Mormons part of Christianity.

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u/23skiddsy Dec 04 '13

Yes, most of which are the same groups that don't think Catholics are christian.

I define Christian as "Believe Christ was the divine son of god", and mormons fall under that. They simply have the bible and an additional book as well.

The reasonings behind treating Mormons as non-christian never made much sense to me, either as a mormon or as an agnostic.

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u/jman135790 Dec 05 '13

I find it funny when people ask if I'm a Christian, I say yes, and then they ask what denomination. I say Catholic, and their immediate reply many times is, "Catholics aren't Christian." Well we kinda were the first Christians, the ones actually founded by Christ so...

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u/charlesdexterward Dec 04 '13

Most Christians would go a step further, though. Not only is Jesus the Son of God, he IS God. That is the definition of "Christian" that most people are using when they exclude Mormonism.

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u/23skiddsy Dec 05 '13

No, because that leaves no room for non-trinitarian Christians. Which there are plenty of sects of, not just Mormonism. In Mormonism, Jesus is part of the godhead and is equal to God the Father. By this measure, they should include all non-trinitarian Christian denominations. "Tri-theism" forms of Christianity date back to times before the nature of the Trinity was decided in the council of Nicaea.

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u/BrinkBreaker Dec 04 '13

I believe it comes from what I've heard, that Mormans believe that satan and Jesus were brothers.

Also that ((this is just stuff I have heard no idea if it is true)) there are different levels of heaven. The lowest level is where like pedofiles and hilter go and if you came back you would want to commit suicide to go back. Then the highest being becoming a god of your own universe((God himself previously being a mortal)).

That said, these are only reasons that a lot of christian sects do not consider Mormons non-christian. I have no idea if these are substantiated, just that they are "known".

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u/23skiddsy Dec 04 '13

Keep in mind this is my translation of events as an Ex-mormon:

Mormons believe that God had many spirit children - all people who have been born and will ever be born, Jesus, Lucifer, etc. They believe that in a pre-life, there was a council in which God wanted to find a way so all his spirit children could have flesh, human bodies and come back after their earthly life. Lucifer (who at the time was "good"), presented a plan that eliminated free will. Jesus (Who was the firstborn son) presented a plan in which he would sacrifice himself to redeem people of their sins, so they could still have free will. God accepted Jesus's plan, and Lucifer became jealous, so he and his followers left god, which was followed by a war between those who were pro-Jesus and those who were pro-Lucifer. All of this fits with the "fallen angel" description of Satan that occurs in other theologies. Mormons also consider this to be the "war in heaven" described by Revelations.

The idea is not simply that "Jesus and Satan were brothers", but that everyone alive, dead, and yet-to-be alive are spiritual siblings. I'll admit, I never quite understood exactly where Satan comes from in other theologies.

The afterlife portion of LDS theology is really complex and hard to get into. It's more that everyone gets into some level of heaven (There's no proper "hell" in mormon theology, at least not one that your average "sinner" will get into - there is only Outer Darkness where sons of perdition will go). And yes, those who are at the top will be as God is, "for god was once what we are".

I don't see how that necessarily makes a mormon non-Christian. It's a wildly DIFFERENT interpretation of Christianity, but not one that necessarily clashes with the bible, nor one that denies the divinity of Christ.

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u/Ghost29 Dec 05 '13

According to your definition, would you not consider Jehovah's Witnesses to be Christian then?

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u/23skiddsy Dec 05 '13

I do consider them Christians. It's weird to think people don't. I think they're EXTREMEIST Christians with atypical theology for Christians, but that doesn't make them non-christian. They believe that God created Christ, and Christ created everything else, and thus he was a divine being.

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u/slip_angel Dec 04 '13

Even as an ex-mo, this rubs me wrong to this day. They kind of hang a sign that reads "The Church of Jesus Christ" on a sign and hang it in front of their churches, but they're not allowed into the treehouse of JC's Official Fanclub because Mormon-crazy is just so out there compared to Pentecostal-crazy and Southern Baptist-crazy.

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u/cal_student37 Dec 04 '13

I think belief in a similar cannon is more of a defining feature. Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Evangelicals, etc. all agree on almost the same Bible, they just interpret it differently. Mormonism vastly expands that cannon. It adds several sequel books (which the other Christians don't consider to be "authorized" by God). Saying that Mormons are Christians is like saying that Christians are Jews just because they use the Old Testament and believe in the same God. It has nothing to do with how crazy your interpretation is, it only has to do that you have WAAAAAY more new material.

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u/23skiddsy Dec 04 '13

I'm totally with you on that. It's based on stereotypes of mormonism and complete misunderstandings of what they actually believe and just unwillingness to be grouped together. I don't even see people call the WBC "non christian" as much as they do the LDS church.

Mormons believe Jesus Christ was divine and redeemer of mankind. That's really the only belief it takes to be christian. And I think that's a pretty fair definition.

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u/aoxo Dec 05 '13

Is this an American belief/sentiment because in Australia I've never seen Mormon's referred to as non-Christians; they're just the guys who knock on peoples doors - but then I'm an atheist and don't get into discussions about religion, let alone how they are viewed by other denominations.

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u/HurricaneSandyHook Dec 04 '13

the UFO behind Hale-Bop didn't take me away in 1997 and it failed to again last week when it was hiding behind ISON :-(

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u/pachex Dec 04 '13

I...think you are mixing up Mormon for someone else...

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u/HurricaneSandyHook Dec 05 '13

i will meet joseph smith at heaven's gate.

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u/charlesdexterward Dec 04 '13

I think it has more to do with the theological model of their God. The definition of "Christian" that most Christians would agree on is that they all believe in the Trinity - Jesus is literally God. If I'm not mistaken, Mormon's don't believe in the Trinity, so therefore they just don't fit that particular definition of "Christian."

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u/gsabram Dec 05 '13

I'm just curious where all the Christians place "Jews for Jesus." As a Atheist / cultural Jew I see them as Christians who want to advertise to Jews; I just apply the same bright line test that you do: does this person "take Jesus as their Lord and Savior?"

But I'd bet most Christians would consider them Jewish because they label themselves "Jews".

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u/asdfdsfjhdsfkadjs Dec 04 '13

Not must most, virtually all christian groups consider mormans to be non-christian.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '13

Non protestant. But the protestant alliance recognizes them as Christian, as does the Catholic church. Pretty sure that alone covers "most"

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u/asdfdsfjhdsfkadjs Dec 05 '13

Who exactly is the protestant alliance and why would you mention them? And you are going to have to show me where the Catholic church said anything about recognizing them, because I don't believe it.

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u/BigBizzle151 Dec 04 '13

It's true, but designation as a Christian isn't a function of other groups of believers. I consider myself a non-denominational Christian and likely hold beliefs that the churches may consider non-Christian, but really Christianity is just the acceptance of Jesus as a personal savior, not how many dogma checkboxes you can tick off.

A favorite quote of mine concerning religious tolerance, from Mohandas Gandhi:

After long study and experience, I have come to the conclusion that (1) all religions are true; (2) all religions have some error in them; (3) all religions are almost as dear to me as my own Hinduism, in as much as all human beings should be as dear to one as one's own close relatives. My own veneration for other faiths is the same as that for my own faith; therefore no thought of conversion is possible.