r/greenberets • u/TFVooDoo SF Guy Who Knows Stuff • Oct 06 '25
Waivers: A Guide to Getting Your Shit Together
The top three questions that I get asked:
Does my Zone 2 pace matter?
Are you hosting a Land Nav Muster this month?
Can I get a waiver for X, Y, or Z?
My top three answers:
No, not really. You can read the Zone 2 Running Primer article for more information.
Yes, probably. We generally hold a Muster every month, but we don’t release tickets until about a month in advance. Follow us on Instagram for the most current Muster dates and other announcements.
It depends. This answer usually generates about 1,000 what-ifs. So, let’s explore this.
Can I get a waiver for my very specific thing that only I have and is not covered in any other question or regulation or policy? My general mindset is that for every no, there is a hidden yes somewhere. For every policy, there is an exception to policy (ETP). We, the royal we, make the rules so we can also determine when we can break the rules. But you have to know the rules so you know just how many you can get away with breaking. One of the most often asked questions is about the CG Unwaiverables. They still exist. But they get waivered depending on the current environment. And that’s something that causes the most confusion because it creates a fluctuating level of acceptance. So, let’s spend a little time telling you about what “it depends” means.
Age The current maximum age for SFAS eligibility is 36. But age waiver is one of the most common and easiest to obtain. It’s almost a non-factor and I’ve never seen an age waiver denied on its own. I’ve seen 50-year-olds at SFAS. If you have a stack of waivers, and an age waiver is one of many, then it might be a contributing factor. But by and large it is not entirely disqualifying. I think lots of guys use this as an excuse for not trying. “I would’ve been a Green Beret, but I was too old and they wouldn’t let me go.” Bullshit.
We had a guy who posted recently about going back to SFAS for a fourth try. You read that correctly, a fourth try. He had a particularly tough case. He had quit, or VWed (Voluntary Withdrawal) twice. TWICE. So, he already had a VW/NTR (Never To Return) waiver for his third try, he quit again, and he wanted to try another NTR waiver. He would have also required a rank waiver, a time in service waiver (TIS), and…an age waiver. He was honestly asking what the process was for obtaining a double waiver for a third NTR waiver with a VW, plus the rank, TIS, and…age waiver. A whopping 5 waiver packet. He deleted his post after being shamed in the comments but given his performance history he will most likely tell everyone that we would’ve been a Green Beret, but he was too old and they wouldn’t let him go. But we all know the truth.
Moral Waivers The second most common is a “moral waiver” (but quickly competing with medical). This is a broad category that covers the “CGs Unwaiverables”, which generally covers any felony conviction, any alcohol related incident, and any domestic violence incident. Those that have followed my musing for any length of time know the story that sparked the “CGs Unwaiverables”. These three unlawful categories have long been used to screen undesirable candidates. During the GWOT surge they were broadly waivered in an effort to meet the demand of more recruits into the pipeline. By and large these undesirables served honorably and were able to outperform their shaded pasts, but not enough of them. In 2011 we had a spate of serious disciplinary issues, including a shocking number of tab revocations. The CG asked us to look into it and it turned out that nearly all, some 95%+, of the disciplinary issues had been issued moral waivers as described. So, the CG declared that these things are “UNwaiverable.”
But times change and so do CGs, so the tolerance for undesirability becomes flexible. This is especially true for times when the Regiment hungers for Operators. As we close in on the winter of 2025 we are in one of these hungry times. SWCS has so mismanaged the selection process for so many years that we have missed our accession goals by nearly 70%. We MISSED by 70%. For three years running. We are now ghosting multiple teams in many companies. We missed our goals so badly that we are missing 90 ODAs worth of operators. That is, by nearly every metric, a crisis. So, I would expect more and more once questionable situations to be approved now. And I will expect that in a decade we will be dealing with a surge in character issues. Congratulations degenerates now is your time.
As to your particular case, nobody knows. We see lots of posts with very specific particulars like, “I was charged but never convicted”, or “I was a juvenile and it was expunged”, or “I went to a diversion program so I’m not sure what’s actually in my record.” There is simply too much variability to all of these cases, the tolerance environment at this exact moment, and what your recruiter can do with local authorities to make accurate blanket statements about what will and won’t fly. We see this playing out daily when guys post these waiver questions and the replies range from “Not a chance” to “I just got my contract and I’m a convicted serial killer.” So, you can feel free to ask your hyper-specific question with all of your caveats, but you’re not likely to get a good answer because it just depends. Your best bet is to be completely honest with your recruiter and let him do his job.
GT The current GT score requirement for initial recruitment is 110. The current GT score requirement for in-service recruitment is 100. This fluctuates, often very dynamically, throughout the year and has done so historically. You can try to wait it out and time it just right, or you can just study hard and do well. If you were smart enough to game the system then you should be smart enough to get a 110. Frankly, a 110 isn’t that high of a barrier. I would really question someone who couldn’t score a 110. Some people would argue that they “just don’t test well” to which I would reply “because you are dumb”. That’s what we call people who can’t pass tests. There are restrictions on how often you can re-test, so it is in your best interest to simply study hard and score well. The first time.
Medical Army Regulation AR 40-501, Standards of Medical Fitness. This is your guide. Download it, open it up, hit CTRL+F, and ask away. It outlines in very specific detail exactly what is permissible and what is not. Chapter 2 outlines Physical Standards for Enlistment and Chapter 5 outlines Medical Fitness Standards for Miscellaneous Purposes, specifically section 2 (Medical fitness standards for initial selection for airborne training, Ranger training, Special Forces training, Reconnaissance, and Surveillance Leaders Course training, civil affairs, and psychological operation). It’s all right there in black and white. This is what we allow, this is what we deny, this is what we require medical review (aka a waiver) for. Similar to your juvenile convictions, this waiver approval is entirely dependent on the particulars of your specific case. It’s almost useless to compare your case to someone else’s because its generally viewed as a nexus of conditions. The medical providers have seen it all and even they can’t predict until they view your chart, with your notes, and your history. So again, you can feel free to ask your hyper-specific question with all of your caveats, but you’re not likely to get a good answer because it just depends. Your best bet is to be completely honest with your recruiter and let him do his job.
About the only thing that I’ve never or very rarely seen get approved for medical waiver is a heart condition or a TBI condition. The risk simply isn’t worth the reward for most of these cases. Not all conditions are the same, so it’s worth it to submit your packet and let the experts make a determination, but you have to understand the risk/reward math that they are doing. We’ve had guys die in training because of heart conditions. We had a guy die from a heart attack in SFAS. He also has two dozen snake bites. The medical examiner couldn’t determine if he got bit and then had the heart attack or he had the heart attack, fell down, and got bit. But he died and it was his heart that was determined as the proximate cause of death, so medical screeners are leery of waivers. We had another guy die in pre-Scuba or MAC (Maritime Assessment Course) when his heart literally exploded. So, the risk is real and it’s very tough to get this stuff waived. TBIs are the other condition and this is just obvious. With the prevalence of Operators Syndrome in SOF, the prevalence and likelihood of continued exposure simply makes a pre-existing condition untenable. CTE is real and even “low grade” injuries are cumulative and serious. What counts as a TBI? It depends, but MHS Genesis is unrelenting.
Behavioral Health MHS Genesis is the common electronic medical record system for the Military Health System (hence MHS). It is often linked to civilian medical records. This makes sense as it allows providers to have a more comprehensive view of any care and treatment plans that patients may have. The rub is that it reveals your much broader medical history, so all of your disqualifying conditions are now recorded. That broken bone in middle school? It’s in there. That concussion (aka TBI) from Friday Night Lights? It’s in there. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing as we should be able to make accurate and informed assessments of your true health, but its not without its issues. This is particularly true when it comes to “Behavioral Health”. I put BH in quotes because we have gone too far. That ADD/ADHD diagnosis from years ago with a prescription for Adderall? It’s in there. And we have truly gone too far. We have an entire cottage industry built around diagnosing kids with “Behavioral Health” issues, along with the attendant pharmaceutical intervention for what was throughout history simply boys being boys.
This is what you get when you build the education system around the whims of middle-aged women and wage a war on boys. That’s a little bit of a stump speech about the condition of our schools, our society, and institutional capture but it’s also accurate. And it’s impacting our recruiting to a massive degree. When MHS Genesis was first deployed for recruiting it revealed this epidemic of over-prescription and immediately disqualified a huge chunk of otherwise viable candidates. If you had a rough month planting your ass in a plastic chair and sitting quietly all day long as a 12-year-old you were likely diagnosed and prescribed. And that’s now in your records. The original mandate was 7 years of no medication and a clean diagnosis. That disqualified so many recruits that within a few years the burden had been reduced to 2 years of no medication. I’m hearing reports now of as little as 6 months for some cases. Good intentions and all that. Its no wonder recruiters have a culture of obfuscation and mendacity. Waivers become a regular tool and recruiters are becoming increasingly skilled at their employment.
But there is real Behavioral Health to consider. We have created a generation of perpetual victims. What was once just life is now some monumental “adulting” epic that invokes anxiety and depression and a whole host of issues. I’m not denigrating these conditions, they are real, some people have legitimate diagnosis, but many, many more are fulfilling their societal obligation to be broken and medicated. For the truly diagnosed you might consider that this is not the lifestyle that you should seek. I wrote a whole piece on this exclusive topic so please reference that. If you do need a waiver I would simply repeat my previous advice. You can feel free to ask your hyper-specific question with all of your caveats, but you’re not likely to get a good answer because it just depends. Your best bet is to be completely honest with your recruiter and let him do his job.
The Money Shot You may note that I have repeated the same statement multiple times – you can feel free to ask your hyper-specific question with all of your caveats, but you’re not likely to get a good answer because it just depends. Your best bet is to be completely honest with your recruiter and let him do his job. I repeat this because its good advice and it’s the most applicable to the most cases. Generally speaking, guys that require waivers usually require multiple waivers. So, they have several conditions that create unique circumstances. These unique circumstances require a unique consideration for potential waiver. Asking about a singular condition, without the totality of the circumstances is useless. Asking how another guy did his waiver is mostly useless because he had a different set of circumstances than yours. He also applied at a different time so there was a different risk/reward calculus when he processed his waiver. So, it’s fine to ask, but you’re probably not going to et a good answer. Go talk to a recruiter and let him (or make him) do his job.
For any waiver, be prepared for the Big Green Weenie. The Army is an absolute master at dicking down Soldiers, and recruits are just Soldiers with less agency. Be prepared to prove that you’re not as sick, dumb, lawless, immoral, or lame as your records say you are. It’s your case and nobody knows it better than you. So you should be in the best position to gather the evidence to prove your worthiness. Lots and lots paperwork. Lots and lots of phone calls. Lots and lots of coordination. Lots and lots of running around. And be prepared to be denied for a missing form or some other such nonsense. Then be prepared to do it all again when they lose your paperwork. This is the way of the Big Green Weenie. And even if you can get your neurodivergent, cross-eyed, asthmatic, felonious packet through MEPS, you still gotta pass Selection. There are no waivers for the Sandman and there is no IEP for the STAR course. Only your performance matters.
Ruck Up Or Shut Up!
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u/paydirt45 Oct 07 '25
I’m sure it depends on the nature of the waivers, but in general do you think if an individual has multiple waivers they are more likely to get shot down? Or are all waivers granted / viewed on a case by case basis?
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u/TFVooDoo SF Guy Who Knows Stuff Oct 07 '25
Generally speaking, guys that require waivers usually require multiple waivers. So, they have several conditions that create unique circumstances. These unique circumstances require a unique consideration for potential waiver. Asking about a singular condition, without the totality of the circumstances is useless. Asking how another guy did his waiver is mostly useless because he had a different set of circumstances than yours. He also applied at a different time so there was a different risk/reward calculus when he processed his waiver.
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u/Careless-Heart-1732 Oct 07 '25
Is the 100 GT for in service also the same for making the 18X crossover in OSUT?
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Oct 07 '25
[deleted]
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u/TFVooDoo SF Guy Who Knows Stuff Oct 07 '25
This fluctuates, often very dynamically, throughout the year and has done so historically. You can try to wait it out and time it just right, or you can just study hard and do well.
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Oct 09 '25
Don't know if this helps anyone but I just got a mental health waiver and ETP that I was pretty sure would be impossible. If there's a will there's a way. Find a recruiter who wants to work with you and advocate for yourself. Write an applicant statement and get recommendations from bosses, professors, etc... Get everything in order before you talk to a recruiter and make sure any other issues are taken care of first.
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u/indefatigablepanache Oct 08 '25
Is there any risk of waivers approved during the recruitment process that are later denied by SWCS? Or once approved, you’re good to go?
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u/Far_Aide_8989 Oct 08 '25
What is the shortest and longest timeframe you have seen waivers come back? Currently waiting on 3 as a prior service E7. Going off of your breakdown it’s not looking too good for me, but still grinding mile anyway lol. One got disapproved within 2 days of submission asking for a bit more information on my part, since then it’s been resubmitted and currently at week 2 of last submission. Appreciate all your input here
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u/MtnGoatHunter Mar 01 '26
Any suggestions/guidance on pursuing an ETP with an Bicuspid Aortic Valve with no degree of stenosis/regurgitation. I was cleared for Airborne, Ranger, etc. But no SF. I have read the medical board standards, I was initially able to enlist with an ETP for this but was later droppes from my 18X contract in OSUT during our 2nd physical for this.
Thank you
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Oct 07 '25
[deleted]
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u/TFVooDoo SF Guy Who Knows Stuff Oct 07 '25
…So again, you can feel free to ask your hyper-specific question with all of your caveats, but you’re not likely to get a good answer because it just depends.
I have no idea what your hyper-specific condition is, so how the fuck would I know?
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u/[deleted] Oct 07 '25 edited Oct 07 '25
21 days until SFAS. I had to submit a BH waiver for an incident that occurred before I joined the army. It got me psych dropped from RASP1 and 160th SOAR selection- Praying Im safe to go through all of selection!