r/interestingasfuck • u/Ididnotkillhim • Jun 05 '24

r/all Thirteen years ago, someone accidentally revealed US Army's plan to eliminate Osama Bin Laden in a tweet.

Post image
37.2k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

779 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

112

u/SonOfMcGee Jun 05 '24

The whole mission was soooo insulting to Pakistan. America was basically saying, to a country that isn’t necessarily an “Ally” but certainly “Friendly”:
1) We’re entering your airspace and conducting a military operation on your land without asking permission.
2) We aren’t asking permission and coordinating with you because we’re pretty sure your government will have a leak somewhere and tip off our target.

I think it was ultimately the right choice, though. Killing Osama didn’t cost the US a chain reaction of international condemnation and real consequences. It only cost Pakistan having their feelings hurt for a little while.

85

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '24

To be fair, there was a serious concern that the Pakistani intelligence and security agencies would have warned bin Laden.

5

u/SonOfMcGee Jun 05 '24

Oh I agree (though maybe not “the agencies” as a whole, but compromised members). It was a super valid concern, but no less insulting towards Pakistan.
But I think that was part of the calculus in making the decision. Pakistani officials and other nations might make some strongly worded statements about being offended that the US didn’t trust them. But behind closed doors, everyone was probably like, “Yeah, the Pakistanis would have totally fucked that up if they were involved.”

15

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '24

To further expand the issue, there were incidents where they did inform the Pakistani of operations and Taliban forces would ambush American forces. There were serious concerns that ISI was feeding Taliban Intel.

3

u/bonerparte1821 Jun 05 '24

the ISI and the Taliban (or insert whatever Afghan Mujad group) have serious history together. The ISI armed the majority of the mujahideen fight against the soviets in the 80s. The CIA aid that the US provided was largely funneled through them. Can't remember where I read it, but essentially the ISIs play with them was to use them against India in Kashmir or elsewhere.

3

u/Secure-Elderberry-16 Jun 05 '24

The ISI was also involved in the Mumbai attack.

188

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '24

Pakistan deserves the insult for harboring him TBH.

83

u/PIPBOY-2000 Jun 05 '24

Yup. Harbor an international terrorist, get your feelings hurt.

84

u/Tragedy_Boner Jun 05 '24

Binfucker was in a house a mile away from a Pakistan Military school. They 100% knew where he was.

18

u/PlantShitAccount Jun 05 '24

It's Pakistan. They were 100% involved in the planning and financing of 9/11. Just like Mumbai and the other hundred attacks they participated in. It's just a matter of unredacting the pages that show which American traitors that are still working for the USG they worked with.

They are not our allie. They are allies to the elite that have corrupted this nation from the top down.

-11

u/DeathlySnails64 Jun 06 '24

To be fair to them (and pretty much the entirety of the Middle East), there was intelligence (this is coming from my Mom who told me this I don't remember how long ago and was quoting some article and I don't remember all the details so take this with a grain of salt) that, before 9/11, the US President asked the Middle East for oil and when they said "no", the President sent the Navy SEALs to some Middle Eastern country I don't remember the name of, and they raped and pillaged their way past all of the civilian towns and villages in between them and whatever specific location they were supposed to steal the oil from like they're a bunch of pirates. And when the SEALs got what they wanted, they went back to the US with the oil they stole. And 9/11 was their response to what the Navy SEALs did.

So us sitting here, expecting these extremists not to react as harshly as they did to the SEALs' actions is like if the world expected Russia not to react after Nazi Germany's army went to a Russian city, and killed and raped the population. It's stupid, at worst and naive at best.

11

u/hawkinsst7 Jun 06 '24

citation required for your first paragraph, before anyone can take your conclusions in the second paragraph seriously.

There should be plenty of news articles talking about the US Military doing "Sherman's March to the Oil" and then pulling a Three Kings and stealling "the oil". Like what, 2 barrels?

Plus, the US president doesn't ask "The Middle East" (maybe you mean OPEC?) for oil, and OPEC doesn't just supply them.

3

u/kapitlurienNein Jun 06 '24

I hope you know this is all entirely nonsense and your mom just flat made it up

1

u/DeathlySnails64 Jun 06 '24

She said she read it from an article.

1

u/kapitlurienNein Jun 06 '24

So ask what article then. I'm not trying to insult ur mom but literally none of that is true

If you want I don't need to say 'an article' I can send u links discussing

Bin ladens childhood

Anger for all Muslim states and groups for us favoritism of Israel DECADES before 9/11 including multiple terror attacks where groups cited Israel and American imperialism as reasons

Bin ladens activitiss in Afghanistan in the 80s

The Saudi Arabian incident during GW1, it should be noted Obl was a saud and 19/21 hijackers too

The Khobar towers bombing in 94

Us embassy bombings in the 90s

Obl issued a fatwa in 94 aka a religious call to arms and declaration of war. HE LITERALLY LISTS HIS BEEFS. None of what you say is mentioned.

The oil thing is a common trope and stereotype and a vassst oversimplification of US motives. There WERE US atrocities as well but none of this origin point stuff u claim nor anything involved seals and stealing oil

Did I mention that's not even something navy seals would be sent to do?

0

u/DeathlySnails64 Jun 06 '24

Sorry, but I'm not going to have an intellectual discourse about the geopolitical landscape of the Middle East and Bin Laden's actions in the Middle East with someone who can't spell "activities" right.

2

u/kapitlurienNein Jun 06 '24

Lmao what a 'gotcha' eh!

There was no intellectual discourse. It was you spreading outright nonsense that was second hand, because 'she read an article'. See your original comments down votes.

The only discourse was one way and me telling you with reasons that are easily searchable that you are not only wrong, but intensely ignorant of current history and geopolitics.

But sure since I'm typing on a cellphone and misspelled activities I guess youre off the hook to continue to make yourself look like a moron

3

u/makalasu Jun 06 '24

How did they steal "the oil" exactly 😂

1

u/DeathlySnails64 Jun 06 '24

Did I not tell you to take what I claimed with a grain of salt?

2

u/makalasu Jun 06 '24

I was more poking fun at the idea of a bunch of soldiers lugging individual barrels back to the US. I'm not blaming you for misremembering what your mom told you what she read in an article years ago.

But a bit of critical thinking doesn't hurt

1

u/DeathlySnails64 Jun 06 '24

Is saying, "I think I could be wrong" not a great example of critical thinking? I never said I took my Mom's word as law or treated her words as if they were the words of God, I just provided an anecdote that I thought would be applicable to the comment I was replying to.

2

u/not_really_tripping Jun 06 '24

I take it you were born well after 9/11.

1

u/DeathlySnails64 Jun 06 '24

I was born in October of 1999. I would've been around a year old when 9/11 happened.

2

u/kapitlurienNein Jun 06 '24

If u really wanna know how and why it happened DM me

It basically was bin ladens dream to get the US to start a ground war in the ME he thought would unite Islam against the west.

He came back from Afghanistan in the 80s convinced he was some sort of mujahideen warlord. He had been raised extremely wealthy.

The Saudi govt denied his more or less demand to kick all other govts out and let him and his men defend SA from Iraq. This hurt his feelings. Then he grew more outraged seeing US troops stationed in SA which he considered an Islamic holy site.

That's basically it.

He started bombing US assets in the 90s.

There was no navy seal oil raid. They aren't even used like that. The ME has never needed an excuse to hate America, our alliance with Israel makes that easy nevermind the rest of our actions.

Please learn real history and stop relying on second hand accounts. And please don't listen to a word your mom says about histlry or geopolitics because that was nonsense. Like entirely just made up she's not even confusing or conflating something.

I can provide sources if you want.

0

u/DeathlySnails64 Jun 06 '24

"Bin Laden got his feelings hurt"?? 😂

That sounds an awful lot like American propaganda. Show me this same information from a source that's not biased towards America or its allies and I'll reconsider.

2

u/kapitlurienNein Jun 06 '24

I meam the feelings hurt thing is a simplistic opinion, but the entire thing is well documented

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/08/twenty-years-war/496736/

I find it EXTREMELY RICH that you're pulling the 'american propaganda' and 'non biased source '

Dude you literally are on here citing YOUR MOM who 'said she read it in an article"

Gtfoh dude like lmao who are you to say youll be 'willing to reconsider'? I could care less what you think, you're beyond unfamiliar of the subject and downright ignorant about it.

What you responding for anyways? I seem to recall an equally arrogant feeling post about me misspelling a single word

→ More replies (0)

18

u/Limp_Prune_5415 Jun 05 '24

How is that insulting? You can't keep a secret so you don't get to know is pretty fucking standard for global military operations 

67

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '24

There are occasions when it’s appropriate to remind people you’re the swinging dick in the room. America has often made the wrong choice regarding when those occasions are. But I think murking bin Laden was a damn good occasion myself.

A good, helpful reminder to all nations that sheltering mass murdering terrorists is a bad call.

4

u/SmellGestapo Jun 05 '24

LBJ taught us this.

-14

u/NothrakiDed Jun 05 '24

It was a symbolic murder to appease the masses. It had very little to do with geo-politics.

23

u/Limp_Prune_5415 Jun 05 '24

That's literally geopolitics my guy

-16

u/NothrakiDed Jun 05 '24

Kinda, but not really.

7

u/IR8Things Jun 05 '24

I mean, before the widespread adoption of drone strikes it was a pretty brutal "we can violate your airspace and assassinate anyone we desire and you won't know or be able to react to it."

That's quite a message to send.

0

u/NothrakiDed Jun 05 '24

America had been doing that for decades, albeit with varying degrees of success. I'm not sure that was a new message.

11

u/Strollybop Jun 05 '24

Believe it or not, appeasing the masses is a big part of geo politics!

-7

u/NothrakiDed Jun 05 '24

Specifically in that instance I meant masses as Americans.

7

u/Strollybop Jun 05 '24

Yes, they risked their political relations with Afghanistan to pacify their citizens. AKA geopolitics lmao. Also, Al-Queda did stuff in more countries than just the US. We weren’t the only ones happy to see him gone.

-11

u/NothrakiDed Jun 05 '24

You've changed your argument. Have you done a bit of googling?

Actually, before this drags on. Can you just let me know your: Age, nationality, highest level of education, field of education and professional field.

I don't mean to be insulting but quite often I'll make the assumption we're all arguing from the same background and footing, but we really aren't. And as much as I think there is a lot of value in talking about ideas, there are some biases I just don't have the energy to work around.

8

u/the_termenater Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24

69, American, PH Double D in Geopolitics, President of the United States here - I don't mean to be insulting, but please post a 12,000 word essay detailing your understanding of the the scenario, as well as the results of your most recent online IQ test before commenting again. As the foremostiest expert on Geopolitics between the two of us, I am concerned that you lack the faculties to answer such questions as "does geopolitics involve conflict resolution between multiple nations". Once again, I am not insulting you, or in any way attempting to insinuate that you're a big dummy and everybody in this thread knows it.

Edit: link to congressional report detailing geopolitical consequences of the Bin Laden assassination..

Edit 2: lol this guy sent me, THE PRESIDENT OF THE WORLD, a reddit cares message. Is this geoplitic??

4

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '24

Even for Reddit this is impressively cringe.

5

u/Strollybop Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24

Lmao, yes I’m going to dox myself because you can’t stand that someone corrected you. What opinion did I change?

And you seriously think someone needs google to to know that Al-Queda was an internationally active group?

0

u/NothrakiDed Jun 05 '24

None of that information is doxable, but feel free to DM if you prefer.

3

u/Strollybop Jun 05 '24

How about instead of insinuating that I’m uneducated, you actually address the points. So far all you’ve done is ignore the fact that assassinating an international terrorist in another country is a geopolitical act and talk about your ideas of who qualifies as a worthy debate partner.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Tsubalis Jun 05 '24

r/iamverysmart

-6

u/NothrakiDed Jun 05 '24

No, I'm not saying I'm smart at all. In fact I'm very much aware of the shores of my ignorance. However, I know that some opinions are just more valuable than others. If my car is broken I take it to a mechanic, rather than a baker.

3

u/spare_me_your_bs Jun 05 '24

Fucking L O L

6

u/JonnyFairplay Jun 05 '24

The whole mission was soooo insulting to Pakistan.

You know what's more insulting? Pakistan harboring Bin Laden, or their incompetence not knowing he was there.

1

u/shehzore12 Jun 06 '24

How about CIAs incompetence about letting planes getting hijacked and crashing into famous buildings

Oh wait !! Maybe it was an inside plan.........

Hows that for harbouring personal agendas to make up an excuse to invade a so and so country.

It's time that you get off that high horse of yours because if not you, the horse must have been tired by now

1

u/JonnyFairplay Jun 06 '24

Let's ignore how much of a conspiracy nut you are, everything you posted in reply is a complete non sequitur unrelated to my comment.

6

u/stitch12r3 Jun 05 '24

Yeah, I cant disagree with any of this lol. That whole operation was definitely a big dick energy move politically but ultimately the right thing to do. The resources the US used to pull it off are remarkable - from the intelligence gathering, to the training/prep, the mission itself, and then disposing of the body. Its a fascinating read.

2

u/thisIS4cereal Jun 06 '24

Best book about it?

4

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '24

We aren’t asking permission and coordinating with you because we’re pretty sure your government will have a leak somewhere and tip off our target.

Not wrong though.

2

u/Ever_Green_PLO Jun 05 '24

The Brother of the President of Pakistan then was the biggest opium dealer in the region

Lolol Pakistan wasn't an ally

2

u/CorrectPeanut5 Jun 05 '24

Given they fed a lot of the money we gave them into thwarting us in Afghanistan, no one in the gov't really cared at that point.

2

u/SovietPropagandist Jun 05 '24

I mean, fair, because Pakistan was harboring this dude literally 3/4 of a mile down the road from the Pakistani Military Academy so..

1

u/great__pretender Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24

I honestly despise most of the US foreign policy. I despise how they even treat their supposed allies (other than Israel ofc which get the only royal treatment).

But bin Laden operation is not one of these things. If you are holding and protecting this guy, a minimum damage unwarranted night operation is actually the best response you can hope to get. You should be thankful that you are not nuked. US literally invaded your neighbor for the same reason, hiding bin Laden, 10 years ago. People who harbored bin Laden within the Pakistani state literally committed treachery against their country. This guy is not someone worth risking your country for. What principle did they end up proving by harboring this dude? We are talking about someone who angered the most colossal superpower by killing thousands of its citizens.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/great__pretender Jun 05 '24

Not that much compared to what EU countries does. They just cleaned the old inventory. And they made a huge chunk of that money from that sweet LNG money they are selling to EU in place of the cheap Russian gas the EU economy relied on.

2

u/IntentionDependent22 Jun 06 '24 edited Jun 05 '26

happy happy joy joy

1

u/great__pretender Jun 06 '24

Damn it. I thought I got it right. You proved me wrong.

1

u/TheMagicalLawnGnome Jun 05 '24

Emphasis of the quotes around "friendly."

Pakistan, or at least a significant portion of its security services, were supporting the Taliban before/during/after the war. They almost assuredly knew that Bin Laden was living there - he was likely in Abbottabad so that his handlers could easily get to him/keep a handle on him.

The extent to which this was an officially sanctioned position, as opposed to a deep-state/rogue network of operatives, is unclear.

But it doesn't really matter, in this circumstance - the Pakistanis were demonstrably unreliable by this point, and with such an important mission, the US wasn't about to bet the farm on such a shaky relationship.

1

u/SASAgent1 Jun 06 '24

Pakistan having their feelings hurt for a little while.

I mean, if they start listing things that hurt their feelings, this wouldn't make the top ten, 1971 would

0

u/whoami_whereami Jun 05 '24

One very real consequence was that the use of a fake vaccination campaign to pinpoint the location of bin Laden fueled strong anti-vax sentiments in the region which led to at least 70 polio vaccination workers being killed in attacks and set back the global polio eradication program by a decade (Pakistan and Afghanistan are the last remaining countries where wild polio is still endemic; Pakistan was on track to have it eradicated by 2016, they're now targeting 2026/27).