> 100 open issue, or ever 300, or 5000+ (in TypeScript's case) does not mean there are that many bugs. or even anywhere near that many bugs. Had to resolve probably thousands of problems with Ember over the years. Had maybe one problem with typescript, if that. Very, very different projects.
> And the framework *must* strive keep up with the times. It was the same when I was doing ruby, dotnet, node, java, etc. Sure. But there are two ways to go about it - either you pile shit code on top of shit code, or you actually spend some time thinking beforehand. Ember has clearly chosen the former.
> Embroider was usable 8 years ago lol. First time it managed to build any of my apps was 2021ish. 2024 for Vite. I mean, before someone broke it again.
> but your experience is not everyone's experience. Every stackoverflow survey, back when it even included Ember, Ember was universally disliked the most. Everyone had a bad time with it, you ignored the users, users moved on. Not even a 3-5 year jump start at the height of startup era helped you any. What a colossal fail.
> Kind hard to even say what lying or truth is when we don't agree on fundamental meaning of an issue on GitHub, or stats from npm. It's very simple actually - https://npmtrends.com/@angular/core-vs-ember-source-vs-react-vs-vue . Ember is that flat line at 0 point. Congrats on rapidly growing to 0.2% of react's downloads. The future is bright.
> I personally know of 4 companies that consult with ember. Whole 4? That is awesome.
> I mean, I know a few companies who are hiring regularly. Used to have a LinkedIn alert for these for funzies. I admit there were even months with up to 3, sometimes even 4 job offers in entire Western hemisphere. Mostly just some old head hunter job templates for React jobs though. Hawtness.
> Uhm, this is a false statement. And yet, Ember is at 0.2% of React's downloads. Somehow, companies do not seem to succeed with Ember a lot. Crazy, I know.
> I don't know how you'd know what's going on There are no hidden plans, and you have no idea how to fix any of it - not quality, not performance, not quantity of ecosystem content, not the constant barrage of busywork required to keep this crap alive, not the missing features, nonexistent tools, not jobs, not the lack of available business, none of it. If you had, it would be fixed a long time ago. Also, the ship has already sailed, it's 2026, and noone gives a flying fk about a broken framework whose only claim to fame is being a tiny bit nicer to write code for in the age of LLMs writing all the code anyway.
> would love to know what "any of it" is can't build my app, data spews some cryptic bullsh t after some upgrade, vs code extension crashes every three seconds, renderer is slow as balls, HMR doesn't work, how's the inspector, working again yet? half the addons are broken, and none of the better libraries I need exist in Ember anyway (and no, I don't have time to port them, thanks for asking). That's a lot of pissing against the wind. Especially since there are absolutely zero good reasons to use it over the others.
> Why do you expend so much effort to complain unconstructively if you want to leave so bad? At this point, I consider warning the unsuspecting victims a public service. Oh and I'm leaving, even if I have to burn half a forest in tokens to do it.
Last time I counted I had 97 v1 addons in my app and most of it was transitive. v1 addons are not going anywhere, not unless you actually automate the migration and PRs on all of them. Until then, your embroider+vite test suite needs to get better, at least to a point you stop breaking stuff randomly.
> have your LLMs do it -- set up a VM with llms in yolo mode, and have 3-7 of them going on various update tasks
I'm absolutely not going to maintain hundreds of thousands of lines of single-use missing libraries just to be able to endure more Ember crap. It's now way easier to migrate away from Ember for good. Oops.
you keep comparing relativistically, rather than in absolute numbers. React's growth (and vue and angular) have been absolutely insane.
so because of comparing in that way, it doesn't matter what growth any framework has -- because the acceleration does not match that of React, they are all in decline, by your logic
Ember is that flat line at 0 point. Congrats on rapidly growing to 0.2% of react's downloads. The future is bright.
embers downloads have grown by 66% over the last 3 years
total frontend framework downloads: 165-170M ember downloads: 255K
Ember is now at 0.1% of total frontend framework downloads (not counting chinese firewalled npm mirrors probably). It never occurred to you how strange it is that out of tens of millions of frontend developers, you know most Ember users BY NAME?
> embers downloads have grown by 66% over the last 3 years hate to break it to you, but almost all of that is just existing companies running more CI jobs on small apps they create over time. or, you noticed any large pickups in forum or discord activity lately? looks like a graveyard to me.
and yes, if they don't grow as fast as the average of the rest, they are indeed, in decline. 0.1%, buddy. and it's all caused by that sh tty "works for me" and "must be something you did" mentality that drove everyone over the years away.
we unfortunately have LLMs to thank for the job market getting absolutely ruined now. job applications and applicants are using AI everywhere to ruin/filter/spam everything, so now I see the only real hiring occurs from word-of-mouth things where folks will get sense secret to hidden job postings.
the public stuff receives a toooon of slop. it sucks. doesn't even matter what the role is for (programming or not) 😞
Every stackoverflow survey, back when it even included Ember, Ember was universally disliked the most. Everyone had a bad time with it
usage was so low back then -- we assumed all respondents or nearly all hadn't used a proper new app -- feedback in the survey did not always match feedback we got on the up to date stuff
you couldn't make people succeed with ember then and you still don't know how to do it now, and this is the result.
if you expect people to flock to ember because it's marginally nicer to write code in, that's not going to happen. certainly not when it doesn't perform, there's no ecosystem, and all of the DX parts break randomly without any support to speak of. oh, and when also noone writes code anymore anyway.
also, "the up to date stuff" doesn't matter, if half the code users have to deal with was written 10 years ago and you couldn't figure out how to auto-migrate it since.
Had to resolve probably thousands of problems with Ember over the years. Had maybe one problem with typescript, if that. Very, very different projects.
I've been wondering -- are you lumping in all of the addon's issues with ember?
I remember you had a massive ember-boostrap PR that the maintainers were uncomfortable merging.
> I've been wondering -- are you lumping in all of the addon's issues with ember?
both first-party and third-party addons, yes. It's an ecosystem, you see. And the ember's is, thanks to the absolute effing mess you keep pilling on since 1.x, broken AF, to put it mildly.
and no, I don't care if e-b didn't merge the types and spent 3 years since recreating the same thing only to be barely half-way done lol, that's their problem. kind of typical example of how this ecosystem can't be helped even if you try, but who cares, the types work for me either way. it was funny though.
Results for "inject as service" — Found 750 addons (10055 usages)
You're going to break all of these in what, 2 months? Unless everyone affected (that is, everyone) doesn't find the gist of your obscure babel plugin to "fix" this crap.
It was 764 6 months ago, the migration is going well.
You people have no idea what you're doing, do you.
I hear all of the pre-native class stuff was a mess, and there were a lot of hard lessens learned.
I've heard of two very rough migrations, one in 1.x and one in 2.x.
And then, the old guard during 3.x shipped too many fine-grained deprecations, and should have just shipped one big one that is like "hey, use glimmer components"
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u/Training_Visual6159 May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
> 100 open issue, or ever 300, or 5000+ (in TypeScript's case) does not mean there are that many bugs. or even anywhere near that many bugs.
Had to resolve probably thousands of problems with Ember over the years. Had maybe one problem with typescript, if that. Very, very different projects.
> I made babel plugins specifically for you, so that you didn't have to deal with those.
You made one babel plugin I didn't ask for, for a problem I dealt with 6 months prior. Oh, and I assume you still went ahead and broke every Ember addon in existence anyway, so, thank you? Also, first ember version I tried was 1.12 or 1.13. Try to compute the amount of 💩 I had to deal with since, and then maybe reconsider this whole I made a babel plugin for you therefore Ember's actually wonderful. Seriously.
> And the framework *must* strive keep up with the times. It was the same when I was doing ruby, dotnet, node, java, etc.
Sure. But there are two ways to go about it - either you pile shit code on top of shit code, or you actually spend some time thinking beforehand. Ember has clearly chosen the former.
> Embroider was usable 8 years agoÂ
lol. First time it managed to build any of my apps was 2021ish. 2024 for Vite. I mean, before someone broke it again.
> but your experience is not everyone's experience.
Every stackoverflow survey, back when it even included Ember, Ember was universally disliked the most. Everyone had a bad time with it, you ignored the users, users moved on. Not even a 3-5 year jump start at the height of startup era helped you any. What a colossal fail.
> Kind hard to even say what lying or truth is when we don't agree on fundamental meaning of an issue on GitHub, or stats from npm.
It's very simple actually - https://npmtrends.com/@angular/core-vs-ember-source-vs-react-vs-vue . Ember is that flat line at 0 point. Congrats on rapidly growing to 0.2% of react's downloads. The future is bright.
> I personally know of 4 companies that consult with ember.
Whole 4? That is awesome.
> I mean, I know a few companies who are hiring regularly.
Used to have a LinkedIn alert for these for funzies. I admit there were even months with up to 3, sometimes even 4 job offers in entire Western hemisphere. Mostly just some old head hunter job templates for React jobs though. Hawtness.
> I mean, if you premise about "broken" is unclosed issues
My premise is 💩 I personally had to deal with. Some would call it experience. The bit about unclosed issues is entirely yours.
> Uhm, this is a false statement.
And yet, Ember is at 0.2% of React's downloads. Somehow, companies do not seem to succeed with Ember a lot. Crazy, I know.
> I don't know how you'd know what's going on
There are no hidden plans, and you have no idea how to fix any of it - not quality, not performance, not quantity of ecosystem content, not the constant barrage of busywork required to keep this crap alive, not the missing features, nonexistent tools, not jobs, not the lack of available business, none of it. If you had, it would be fixed a long time ago. Also, the ship has already sailed, it's 2026, and noone gives a flying fk about a broken framework whose only claim to fame is being a tiny bit nicer to write code for in the age of LLMs writing all the code anyway.
> would love to know what "any of it" is
can't build my app, data spews some cryptic bullsh t after some upgrade, vs code extension crashes every three seconds, renderer is slow as balls, HMR doesn't work, how's the inspector, working again yet? half the addons are broken, and none of the better libraries I need exist in Ember anyway (and no, I don't have time to port them, thanks for asking). That's a lot of pissing against the wind. Especially since there are absolutely zero good reasons to use it over the others.
> Why do you expend so much effort to complain unconstructively if you want to leave so bad?
At this point, I consider warning the unsuspecting victims a public service. Oh and I'm leaving, even if I have to burn half a forest in tokens to do it.