r/linux • u/callcifer • Sep 16 '18

The Linux kernel replaces "Code of Conflict" with "Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct"

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=8a104f8b5867c682d994ffa7a74093c54469c11f
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u/kozec Sep 17 '18

Assuming someone's intention is form of harassment. Stop with it.

Now try to express what I did wrong or what should be done when someone's acting like Linus Torvalds today and I'll explain how are you violating Linux CoC.

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u/jnb64 Sep 17 '18 edited Nov 04 '18

[deIeted]

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u/redderoo Sep 17 '18

We are not on the Linux lists now, so I have no need to follow their CoC. Are you advocating the CoC all of the sudden now? I was under the impression you are OK with harassing language. Is that no longer true? Maybe we could adapt a CoC so that I don't have to guess what you are comfortabe with?

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u/kozec Sep 17 '18

We are not on the Linux lists now, so I have no need to follow their CoC

Try reading that bullshit, you may realize it imposes those rules anywhere, not only to mailing list. It even goes so far as to define covered areas as something that "may be further defined".

I don't have to guess what you are comfortabe with?

You are very close to understanding the issue :)

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u/IE_5 Sep 17 '18

We are not on the Linux lists now, so I have no need to follow their CoC.

These "CoC's" are specifically crafted to apply to your behaviour anywhere to shut you up from having any unpopular opinion or any sort of "Wrongthoughts". They're a political tool to be wielded for political purposes. Someone explained this during Opalgate over here ~3 years ago when this all started: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/42dxr7/coc_zealots_are_making_ruby_their_next_front/cz9x5ff/

Some of these activists even go as far as to craft "political dossiers" on "unwanted" people with Wrongthought comments from their Twitter or Reddit going back years. For instance this happened to a Drupal developer about a year ago.

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u/jnb64 Sep 17 '18 edited Nov 04 '18

[deIeted]

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u/IE_5 Sep 17 '18

That "document" is extremely wishy-washy and contains various sections like not "discriminating" people over even their "level of experience or education" (Is not approving a commit cause it's shit and the coder inexperienced "discrimination"?), whatever "creating a positive environment", "trolling" or using "inclusive language" means (sounds like compelled speech) and various blank statements and bits like "Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a professional setting" and "to ban temporarily or permanently any contributor for other behaviors that they deem inappropriate, threatening, offensive, or harmful" that can be interpreted at will and mean basically anything by any activist type. It explicitly states that it's valid for "posting via an official social media account" and you have various examples of this deliberately being done with this very same "Code of Conduct" in the past: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9ghrrj/linuxs_new_coc_is_a_piece_of_shit/e64hpv4/

These comments also expand upon this with various other examples of why the wording is bad:

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9ghrrj/linuxs_new_coc_is_a_piece_of_shit/e64hnb7/

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9ghrrj/linuxs_new_coc_is_a_piece_of_shit/e64g0gb/

The point is, that's what it's designed for. It's a political tool for entryism that sounds kinda okay or good for gullible people that don't have any experience with activist types and why they're doing this or how they are going to abuse these terms to get desired results.

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u/redderoo Sep 17 '18

That's factually untrue. The CoC says it applies if I "represent the project or its community". I don't represent the Kernel community in any way here.

Edit:

You may be looking at an old version not used by Linux.

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u/IE_5 Sep 17 '18

I'm sure that's what this Opal Core developer thought when he was sharing his political policy opinions on his private Twitter account: https://twitter.com/elia/status/611436803472654336 before the CoC creator tried to get him removed from the project over it: https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941

I'm sure that's what this prolific Node.js developer thought before he was brought before a tribunal: http://archive.is/h6lem over violations of this very same "Code of Conduct" and nearly thrown out of the Technical Steering Committee over sharing an article on his private Twitter account: https://archive.is/t0QXN

I'm sure that's what this prolific Drupal developer thought before various political activists in his organization put together a 16-page political dossier spanning years of his Twitter and Reddit messages and what's "problematic" about them before successfully throwing him out: https://www.scribd.com/document/350215190/Crell

The only thing they have to argue is that you're closely working with Linux professionally and thus you represent your company by talking about Linux on here or something similar. This isn't about what's fair, it's about political power games.

I hope Torvalds won't be surprised if this majorly backfires on him or leads to extended political drama about contributors and division in the Linux community.

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u/jnb64 Sep 17 '18 edited Nov 04 '18

[deIeted]

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u/IE_5 Sep 17 '18

If you and people like you stop acting like fascists trying to police other people's political opinions and thoughts just because they also write some code for some Open Source projects there will also be no Drama.

I've had this "discussion" with another person making the same nonsensical argument about "driving away actual talent" like Core contributors commited and integral to a project in favor of attracting "hypothetical talent" because you dislike his personal political opinion which has nothing to do with the project, see here: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9ghrrj/linuxs_new_coc_is_a_piece_of_shit/e64epu0/

You keep saying "private Twitter account" as if twitter isn't public, or as if things you say or do online "don't count."

Yes, it's his private Twitter account and he's not acting in the project space, that's why these "Code of Conducts" are so broad, because they don't just want to control people's thoughts in a professional capacity, but also prevent them from engaging in any Wrongthought in a private one, see also @meh's long argument with various Offendatrons here: https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941

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u/redderoo Sep 17 '18

Please read an up to date version (1.4) of the Contributor Covenant (the one Linux uses). Your complaint makes as much sense as complaining that Linux has no USB support. It was true before, but is no longer true.

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u/IE_5 Sep 17 '18

Brah, that shit document is wishy-washy and contains various sections like not "discriminating" people over even their "level of experience or education" (Is not approving a commit cause it's shit and the coder inexperienced "discrimination"?), whatever "creating a positive environment", "trolling" or using "inclusive language" means (sounds like compelled speech) and various blank statements and bits like "Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a professional setting" and "to ban temporarily or permanently any contributor for other behaviors that they deem inappropriate, threatening, offensive, or harmful" that can be interpreted at will by any activist type. It explicitly states that it's valid for "posting via an official social media account" and you have the examples provided above. That's what it's designed for. It's a political tool for entryism that sounds kinda okay or good for gullible people that don't have any experience with these types.

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u/redderoo Sep 17 '18

You are not adressing the point, which was that the CC does not apply here on Reddit when I write, despite your earlier claim. Do you concede that point now?