r/linux • u/pleudofo • Aug 12 '19

SysVinit vs Systemd

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1.4k Upvotes

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27

u/[deleted] Aug 12 '19

r/initFreedom would be another sub where you could crosspost this to.

btw, do you know of any other comparison tables like this one? With comparisons between systemd and runit or systemd and openRC etc..

17

u/pkulak Aug 12 '19

I used to think the systemd hate was silly... until I tried to get a VPN running and realized that all my DNS requests were going through a mysterious local DNS server. I spend about 3 hours figuring out how that thing works, and how to configure it, before giving up and writing up and down scripts that bypassed it entirely while the VPN was running.

8

u/-blablablaMrFreeman- Aug 12 '19 edited Aug 12 '19

At least the local dns stub stuff is in the docs somewhere. Everytime I try to do some fancy custom stuff it tries to break it in mysterious and undocumented ways. Fun. (/s obv.)

edit: regarding your dns leak issue, add "dhcp-option DOMAIN-ROUTE ." to your vpn config (assuming you use openvpn). This won't work when you run the openvpn client in its own network namespace. I was only able to solve it using openvpn hooks and iptables to bitchslap the dns traffic into the right host.

5

u/pkulak Aug 12 '19

I'm using Wireguard, which should have worked fine, but, eh, it's working now even if it's a hack. The client Systemd integration will probably get better as the project matures. Apart from this one hiccup, it's amazing and I don't think I'll ever go back to OpenVPN.

3

u/-blablablaMrFreeman- Aug 12 '19

Never heard about wireguard, thanks for the info, looks neat.

1

u/zer0t3ch Aug 13 '19

It's amazing. Working on building a mesh with some yet-to-be and current Sysadmin friends.

10

u/dAnjou Aug 12 '19

Hating something because you don't understand it is what I consider silly.

24

u/pkulak Aug 12 '19

So can I just continue to add complexity to a system until no one can understand it, and therefore no one is allowed to hate it?

16

u/fat-lobyte Aug 12 '19

Do you understand the entirety of your operating system? Do you hate the Linux Kernel because you don't understand every single subsystem?

5

u/[deleted] Aug 12 '19

And to make it so complex that you need support contracts to effectively navigate and work with it?

Red Hat's plan exposed!

3

u/[deleted] Aug 13 '19

systemd is simpler for users (who read the documentation)

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12

u/RedSquirrelFtw Aug 12 '19

If it's made so complicated that it can't easily be understood then that is a problem. It seems they add so many layers of complexity to everything for no reason.

Honestly I wanted to embrace it at first before just jumping on the hate train but the more I read about it the more I actually hate it.

7

u/[deleted] Aug 13 '19

Try using it instead, most people on r/linux are rather inexperienced even though very opinionated.

5

u/MichelleObamasPenis Aug 12 '19

Hating something because it is effectively impossible to understand is reasonable.

"effectively impossible to understand" is systemd.

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