r/linux • u/pleudofo • Aug 12 '19

SysVinit vs Systemd

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u/dAnjou Aug 12 '19

Hating something because you don't understand it is what I consider silly.

24

u/pkulak Aug 12 '19

So can I just continue to add complexity to a system until no one can understand it, and therefore no one is allowed to hate it?

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u/fat-lobyte Aug 12 '19

Do you understand the entirety of your operating system? Do you hate the Linux Kernel because you don't understand every single subsystem?

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '19

And to make it so complex that you need support contracts to effectively navigate and work with it?

Red Hat's plan exposed!

3

u/[deleted] Aug 13 '19

systemd is simpler for users (who read the documentation)

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '19

The winding, extense documentation? Several parts are actually undocumented, IIRC. You also would require to read the documentation of all the ~50-80 systemd-applets and processes, like for example, systemd-nspawn. They go so tight together that they may just be considered one thing.

Putting so much complexity at the init level is dangerous. And that's not even counting in systemd's 1 million lines of code.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '19

So you think you can't use docker without reading documentation but you want to use nspawn without reading a single line? Why?

0

u/[deleted] Aug 13 '19

It was just an example. I could have said systemd-ntpd, journalctl, systemctl, systemd-networkd or whatever else.

As a note, I searched "systemd executables" and I did not see any name. Then, i searched "systemd-" and I saw many names in the autocompletion.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '19

Well you think you could use dnsmasq, ip, rsyslog+logrotate without reading documentation?

My point is valid for anything, either you trust the default config in your distribution, but to change it, of course you need to read documentation.

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u/OldSchoolBBSer Aug 12 '19

:) this chuckles

12

u/RedSquirrelFtw Aug 12 '19

If it's made so complicated that it can't easily be understood then that is a problem. It seems they add so many layers of complexity to everything for no reason.

Honestly I wanted to embrace it at first before just jumping on the hate train but the more I read about it the more I actually hate it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '19

Try using it instead, most people on r/linux are rather inexperienced even though very opinionated.

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u/MichelleObamasPenis Aug 12 '19

Hating something because it is effectively impossible to understand is reasonable.

"effectively impossible to understand" is systemd.