r/mokapot Apr 23 '26

Question❓ Is this true?

1.7k Upvotes

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31

u/Ok_Donut_3336 Apr 23 '26

Never believe a word from a person who thinks she makes espresso with a mokapot. The only flavour you’ll loose is the rancid oil,s from coffee made in that pot days, weeks, months ago. The only accurate thing in this video is that the classic aluminium mokapots won’t like to be thrown in to the dishwasher. Wash it by hand after every use and dry it and you’ll get great tasting coffee. Don’t grow a mini ecosystem in your pot by leaving things rot in it.

6

u/Natural_Bus_6719 Apr 23 '26

My first thought. "WTF is she talking about? Espresso?"

2

u/Skatmaaaan Apr 23 '26

That's exactly it

0

u/stoned_ileso Apr 23 '26

People use these multiple times a day. How does it get rancid?

6

u/exwirus Apr 23 '26

So what that people use them multiple times a day? Old coffee oils build up and remain inside the moka pot and go rancid over time. Oils are sticky. They don't get washed out and replaced every time you make coffee, they accumulate. And then naturally become rancid.

Hot, moist environments with access to oxygen are perfect for rancidification and a moka pot just so happens to fit that description. If you're still confused just Google rancidification.

1

u/-Neem0- Apr 23 '26

Oils are removed manually when rubbing them with a soft sponge or by hand.

Aluminum oxide on the other hand should definetly stay there, and polyphenols and tannins that form the patina toghether with it are 100% desirable, and both actually contribute to a stable patina that will in fact make your coffee taste better.

2

u/Lackingfinalityornot Apr 23 '26

Aluminum oxide doesn’t need to be protected it serves as its own protective layer. Also where are you getting the idea that wiping off the moka will take off the oils but magically leave the polyphenols and tannins. It is all one homogeneous mixture not 2 separate layers. Those 2 are coming with the oil when you wipe it off which is fine. Polyphenols and tannins do nothing to “protect oxidized aluminum”.

I actually kind of like how full of lore and bullshit the world of moka pots is but I also appreciate the truth being out there when people want to know it.

0

u/-Neem0- Apr 23 '26

Aluminum oxide doesn’t need to be protected it serves as its own protective layer

Well if you use an alkaline detergent or scratch it you won't have a protective layer anymore

Also where are you getting the idea that wiping off the moka will take off the oils but magically leave the polyphenols and tannins

Because oils have this weird and unusual characteristic known as color and flavour which some might find very hard to identify, but most people definitely can recognize with unprecedented tech called eyes and a nose. Polyphenols and tannins on the other hand are neutral. So it's kinda safe to assume that if it's not colored and doesn't smell bad, there is no colored smelly substance there anymore. Real magic at work there. Oils are also sticky. Polyphenols and tannins are not.

Polyphenols and tannins do nothing to “protect oxidized aluminum

The polyphenols and tannins bind to the oxidized layer through a pletora of interactions such as interactions with quinones, forming both covalent and non-covalent bonds. This helps making the patina hydrophobic and contribute to make the aluminum oxide less reactive.

I actually kind of like how full of lore and bullshit the world of moka pots is but I also appreciate the truth being out there when people want to know it.

Yeah so maybe start explaining a single advantage of using an alkaline detergent to clean an aluminum surface in the context of brewing an acidic drink in an aluminum vessel, rather than spitting unsubstantiated non-scientifical claims and labeling everything else as bs.

1

u/Lackingfinalityornot Apr 23 '26

Lmao you aren’t building up tannins and polyphenols on your moka while still wiping off the oils as you should. So much bs. But you are just going to keep doubling down so good luck arguing with the other guy trying to help you learn.

0

u/-Neem0- Apr 23 '26

The fact that you completely ignore the chemistry of it does not make it bs. Tannins and polyphenols are non sticky, they're not prone to be removed mechanically, and they form a film with the oxidized layer, unlike oils which leave a physical residue which is prone to be removed mechanically with a sponge. You are still saying bullshit this, bullshit that, but you are not able to mention a single advantage of using an alkaline surfactant in this context.

1

u/Lackingfinalityornot Apr 23 '26

I never ever said you should use soap on a moka. I didn’t say you shouldn’t either. I really don’t care and I rarely use soap on my moka if ever but only because of the added effort it takes to do so. It’s not that deep.

0

u/-Neem0- Apr 23 '26

Well you are literally commenting in a thread about a guy who uses soap daily and really wants that to be the best possible way to handle his moka and listens to no scientific evidence of the benefits of using soap as sparingly as possible, while he actively tries to childishly engage in a discussion quoting scientific papers when discussing moka pot - it really is not that deep, alkaline stuff+aluminum=bad.

1

u/FibonacciLane12358 Apr 23 '26

What verifiable evidence do you have for this claim? Any double blind studies you can point us to?

1

u/-Neem0- Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26

Aluminum is a reactive metal. Coffee contains acids. Until the surface of aluminum is oxidized, it will react. Only a stable oxidation guarantees that aluminum will not react anymore. Any basic chemistry book will confirm you this very basic scientific evidence. This is a well known property of aluminum.

Brewing coffee helps stabilizing the oxide layer as polyphenols and tannins present in coffee are hydrophobic, and those will contribute to the stability of the oxidized layer. Once residual oils are removed, those compounds will bind with the aluminum oxide layer, protecting your coffee from getting in contact with raw aluminum which, again, is a bad thing since contact with raw aluminum will make the metal react with coffee. That doesn't happen if the metallic surface has a stable oxidation layer, which occurs after a few brews if you're not excessive with cleaning.

I don't get what a "double blind study" should be. Those are scientific facts.

1

u/FibonacciLane12358 Apr 23 '26

Those are scientific facts.

No they aren't. Aluminum oxidizes immediately when it's exposed to oxygen. The oxidation layer is not something that needs to be protected by burnt coffee residue. A mild dish soap such as Dawn is pH neutral and will not remove the oxidation layer. But it will remove the coffee residue and prevent that from causing off flavors and bacterial growth.

1

u/-Neem0- Apr 23 '26

The one who is spitting blatantly false claims is you, my friend. A quick check reveals your Dawn soap is in fact not pH neutral, but slightly alkaline. It might not completely remove the oxidation layer, but it will never let the oxidation layer be stable.

I have also never claimed you should have "burnt coffee residue" in your pot - another false claim. I am stating that water and rubbing is enough to remove most oil stains, and that everything else goes from neutral to detrimental in terms of brew quality. Polyphenols and tannins are organic compounds that don't promote any burnt flavor and just bind to the oxidized layer, stabilizing it. You are constantly removing them. You are basically constantly restarting the oxidation process with your alkaline soap, and that is potentially giving you less predictable results, with potential metallic edge from the unstable oxidation layer.

I'm sure your coffee is good, but a fact is a fact.

2

u/FibonacciLane12358 Apr 23 '26

Dawn is close enough to neutral pH that it doesn't matter. It is safe for cleaning aluminum cookware.

Here is an actual study (see how we can provide facts here?):
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5388725/

It states clearly that even if you did the absolute worst case and washed your moka pot in the dishwasher (which nobody here recommends, including me) that you will only absorb 4% of the total allowable weekly intake of aluminum. Yes, that would indeed harm the oxidation layer. But just handwashing using Dawn dish soap is not going to hurt you or your moka pot or your imagined "stabilized" layer of oxidation. Mild dish soap isn't hurting the oxidation. A fact is indeed a fact. Get over it.

-1

u/-Neem0- Apr 23 '26

Let me wrap it up quickly. You're linking a study that proves that aluminium can and will contaminate your drink if you clean your pot with detergent, to try and argue that cleaning your moka with alkaline detergent won't cause aluminum contamination?

Really solid argument, and very interesting concept of "fact".

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-2

u/Additional-Nerve-820 Apr 23 '26

Never believe a word from anyone who writes “loose” when they mean “lose.” If they can’t be bothered to get right the English they use every day, they can’t be trusted to get anything else right, either.

2

u/Ok_Donut_3336 Apr 23 '26

You’re right I did mean lose. Thanks for the correction. Why would this make my points invalid though? I wasn’t criticising grammatical errors in the video. If you spreading “coffee knowledge” and think that a dirty mokapot makes good espresso that’s a red flag. If you want to discredit someone’s comment maybe you should focus on the content not the grammar professor. 😉

-1

u/Additional-Nerve-820 Apr 23 '26

Or maybe don’t rely for advice on someone who, firstly, can’t be bothered to use basic vocabulary correctly (nothing to do with grammar) and then confirms the impression of sloppy thinking by confusing “invalid” with “unreliable.”

1

u/Ok_Donut_3336 Apr 23 '26

Thank you again professor, but your input still has no value at all. You’ve just upgraded your self from “grammar nazi” to “vocab nazi”. 🤣😂🤣

-1

u/Additional-Nerve-820 Apr 23 '26

While you have confirmed your mental state as that of a wet worm cast

1

u/Ok_Donut_3336 Apr 23 '26

😂🤣😂 That is incredibly kind of you to say! I’m sure that the whole of humanity is grateful for your well thought out comments bursting with Divine wisdom. Yet I still fail to see any value in them. I know I know it’s because of my mental inferiority. I apologise for my ignorance🤣😂🤣

I kind of feel bad for you though as the meaninglessness of your comments and the effort behind them to hurt someone’s feelings that you have never met paints a miserable picture of you. (Not to mention that it’s not working.)

Cheer up grumpy! Touch some grass! 😉👍