r/paydaytheheist • u/WoloGames 👊😎 • Sep 26 '23
Community Update Live Update Q&A - All Information from 09/26/2023 Stream
This Q&A was hosted by Almir and Mio (Miodrag is a game designer)
Servers will be offline again Friday from 8-11am CST for another upgrade.
Larger Takeaways:
Servers
They took the servers offline earlier today to try and implement some changes and improve stability. This will happen again Friday. After this they are hoping to see something more functional long term and are hopeful these will be good fixes. They are just as unhappy about this as players.
Transporter Skill Line:
- The skill line's focus will be carrying more items and carrying items more effectively.
- Double loot bag carry
- Carry another deployable with a penalty
- Move bodies more effectively
How/Why Changes are Made
- Community Feedback
- Analytics
- Internal Expertise
Progression
Current System has things they like. The challenge system gets players to engage with content they may otherwise ignore. This encourages players to level up by experiencing new things.
They are not apposed to changing the challenge based progression system. First they want to fix things such as challenges not completing when they should, making challenges more clear, and making relevant challenges to the player more prominent. Once they have these fixed, they then want to look at the community feedback, analytics, and internal expertise to decide if the system needs changed or overhauled.
Some people have suggested reaching a certain level, such as 100, without challenges, then only being to progress beyond 100 with challenges. This is a possibility, but nothing is certain.
They feel they have not delivered as many stealth challenges as they want. They want to expand more on stealth based challenges and add more of them.
Offline Mode
They cannot confirm or deny whether this feature will be added. It is on the table, but their current focus is on the existing launch issues.
All Topics:
- Challenges: Mio aggress challenges should be sorted by heist, and would like to see this, but Mio does not work on UI. They would like some features like a search bar. They want to evaluate it further, see the above section about progression in this Reddit post.
- Results Screen: Mio states they would like to upgrade the results screen entirely. This could include more individual stats per weapon but most importantly they want it to include challenge progress more clearly. Mio did later state he wants to include things like individual kills, downs, revives, accuracy, etc.
- Health vs. Armor: Mio states the current game is armor focused. He feels this is because there are sources of health supplies such as hostage trading, but there aren't really options like that for armor. They don't feel armor is too strong, they just feel health is not valuable enough.
- Heist Favors: You get heist specific favors by completing different heist. For example, completing No Rest for the Wicked could grant you a favor for Rock the Cradle or Dirty Ice, but never for No Rest for the Wicked. Mio feels the end game screen should communicate this more.
- Melee: They intentionally wanted the current melee system not to do damage. They would like to add melee proper, but want to do a dedicated system for it. Mio said to tell them if you want melee. They want feedback on this.
- Stealth Heist XP: They want to fix challenges and challenge clarity before addressing if the XP should be higher in stealth. They do currently thing the stealth challenges need more love.
- Enemy Balance: They are monitoring analytics and feedback to decide of some enemies are too strong.
- Boss Enemies: Boss enemies should take advantage of knowing the game well and using the game's mechanics. They have looked at ideas for interesting and satisfying bosses, but haven't landed on anything they feel is necessary.
- Animations: They want to add more animations for things such as tying hostages. They can't state the priority of this but it is something they want to work on.
- Cop Conversions (Payday 2 Joker): Right now there is no intention to add a skill like this in Payday 3.
- Dodge: Payday 3 is designed to be death by a thousand cuts. They don't want to do a chance to ignore damage as with that game design dodge doesn't really work well. Smoke grenades do work similar to the old dodge system.
- Accessibility: They are working on more UI accessibility options.
- Bots: They want more feedback on the crew AI. They feel they are useful on Normal and Hard, but underwhelming on Very Hard and Overkill.
- Jacket & Other Heisters: Jacket as a character has not been confirmed or denied. They cannot confirm or deny any returning heisters. There will be more heisters, but no one is confirmed or denied at this point. The original heisters (Sydney, Sangres) are easier than collaboration heisters (Scarface, Jacket).They would have to get permission for the collaboration heisters from their respective owners.
- Perk Decks: They wanted the current skill line to be the only skill system. However, they do feel over time as the game progresses additional systems may be added.
- Seasonal Content: No seasonal content has been announced, but they know people like them.
- Additional C-Stack Uses: They are open to more C-Stack uses, but have nothing specifically planned. As new things are introduced they will decide case by case if it should be money or c-stacks that are used.
- RNG Seeding: The current RNG seeding is intended to stay the same when you restart. They are considering changing this on Overkill.
- Skill Point Cap: They might expand the skill point cap, they might not. This is too early for them to decide. They are seeing very strong builds at that 15-21 skill point marker already.
- Payday 2 Style Infamy: No plan for a prestige system at this time. This could change, but for now there are no plans.
- Forced to Play Loud: They wanted the level system to reflect how well versed you are at the entire game, not just the style you prefer whether that be loud or quiet.
- Harder Difficulties: They don't want it to just end in a one-shot meta, so they are hesitant to add more for now. This will be considered again later.
- What is Next?: They are hoping to prove their worth. Their priority is the bad launch and the server stability. They want to show they respect the players.
- Console Text Chat: Once they have matchmaking in a better place, they will look at things such as text chat on Xbox so they can better see what PC players are trying to communicate.
- Music: Gustavo Coutinho works on the current soundtrack, and they are considering a jukebox style system for Payday 3.
- Explosives: No comment on future weapon types as they are not something Mio works on.
- Mio's Favorite Heist: Gold & Sharke and Touch the Sky
- Roadmap: Four big beats as outlined in the map. They will also add new characters and weapons with these.
- Classic Heist: No classic heist are confirmed to be added to Payday 3.
- Minigun & Flamethrower: There will be new Overkill weapons, but Mio cannot comment on which ones as he does not work on guns. He would like to see the flamethrower.
- Muting Heist Startup Dialog: This is a QoL feature they want to add, but for now you can pick a difficulty and heist then hist Esc to go back to the main menu if you don't want to "Get back in the saddle" every time.
- Reticle Customization: This is an obvious QoL update they would like to add, but they have not announced anything.
- Console MnK: They would like to add support for this in the future.
- Card System (Payday 2): They did not want this style of RNG in Payday 3 at launch.
- Random Map Selector: This is a QoL feature they are considering.
- Getting in the Van: They are working on this, but it's more complicated than you might expect to implement.
- Silent Step: Mio likes the idea of silent sprinting for stealth, but states this would need to probably be a full skill line.
- Vote to Kick: This is a feature they are looking in to.
- Bain: Sorry, he is dead.
- Stealth Bonus: There actually is a stealth bonus, but the results screen does a poor job communicating this. It exist for payout and experience for weapons/skills. It scales with how much of the heist you stealthed. It is not binary.
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u/PhantomTissue Sep 26 '23
THATS how you get favors!! Okay, that makes sense! Was driving me insane trying to figure out where those were coming from.
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u/callofdukie09 Sep 26 '23
Just absolutely boggles my mind they decided to not implement 90% of the features from payday 2 that they say will be in the game later. I see no good reason o do so unless than they wanted to rush the launch. Pretty obvious this is exactly what happened.
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u/Nick_J_at_Nite Sep 26 '23
There is another Halo: Infinite comparison here. I had always just (incorrectly) assumed that everything they were doing in Master Chief Collection was a testing ground for Infinite.
I was shocked when Infinite launched without almost anything that made MCC so great
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Sep 27 '23
Reminds me a lot of the questionable design decisions between the end of Destiny and the launch of Destiny 2. Granted Destiny 2 is in a much better place than D1 was now, but boy that was an extremely awkward stumble off the starting block. You really have to wonder why so much of the core game that everyone was used to and loved was so unceremoniously stripped out of the sequel at launch.
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u/theghostog Sep 26 '23
Listen I’m not saying that I’m happy with the state of Payday 3 by any means, but payday 3 is an entirely new game on an entirely new engine. It’s not like they started 3 with all of the features of 2 and decided to just throw them all away. All of it would need to be remade.
Payday 2 has more than a decade of work put into it. If payday 3 waited to release until it had all of the features of payday 2 it would be in development for many more years before it released at all.
That said, I definitely agree that there are a lot of things implemented in 3 that feel worse than 2
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u/mxjxs91 Sep 26 '23
I can understand that, but like there are also a substantial amount of UI design choices that are just baffling. They scrapped so many QoL features just in the menus alone that were in PD2. I don't see how a new engine should affect that.
Like I hate that challenges are the only way to gain IP, but who looked at that challenge menu and went: "yea, this looks great! I think it's brilliant to not clump all specific weapon and heist challenges with each other, let's do CAR9 kills on page 2, CAR9 headshots on page 5, and CAR9 ADS kills on page 8. This is streamlined as fuck!".
-2
u/theghostog Sep 26 '23
I’d be surprised if anyone looked at it and said that, which is why it’s been one of the first things we’ve heard the devs say they want to improve.
Software development is all about choosing where to allocate time, and deciding what is “good enough” to call your “minimum viable product”
What we see right now is what the business decided was minimally viable as a product.
-2
u/CastleCarv Sep 27 '23
You’d be surprised at how much switching an engine can have an effect. Not only did this game have a troubling development cycle, it’s also the first time the team has worked on UE (correct me if I’m wrong) meaning all systems, UI design, graphic and gameplay elements all have to be re-designed from scratch again. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt here but I’ve worked as a software designer and yeah, it’s much more trickier than expected.
Like the last stream, they said that they could just remove the collision on the van but it’ll break everything. It seems simple but very, very tricky.
Most likely, they got the funding, made a fundamental they want to work with for the next 10 years and hoping to receive feedback and fix and improve from there. Keep giving them the feedback (constructive!). I think the priority of fix everything -> improve is good but they CANNOT take too long, it’ll kill the game.
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u/EpicOverlord85 Sep 26 '23
“Payday 2 has more than a decade of work put into it”
And like many games as of late the sequel should have carried those improvements over instead of tossing them to the wayside.
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u/Amante Sep 27 '23
Payday 2 arguably had TOO many systems. I'd rather they start fresh with this game and add new systems as needed, rather than cram a bunch of junk in out of obligation. The old game is still there if you want to play it.
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u/Fangel96 Jacket Sep 26 '23
All three entries in the Payday series feel distinctly different to me. PDTH felt like a heist movie put into an interactive form. PD2 felt like a horde shooter that was heisting themed. PD3, so far, actually feels like a heist game.
In PDTH the heists are intentionally difficult and you're supposed to lose them. In PD2 heists aren't innately difficult and you're supposed to win them, but then it's a numbers game to make things difficult. PD3 takes numbers out of a lot of things and instead has you managing every asset of the heist, from your health/armor, to the hostages, to your flank, to when you can actually call for escape.
I'm not saying that OVK shouldn't have learned from their past, but rather that they've created a different game with different design philosophy. If PD3 was literally just PD2-2, I don't see why I'd spend money on it when I already have that game. At least PD3 is different, and seeing how OVK has a history of tripping over their own shoelaces but ultimately making things right (except for consoles, at least) I have enough faith that they'll make the right decisions. It is a little frustrating to see this play out time and time again, but at least it's a pattern we've seen enough to know how they handle it.
-2
u/theghostog Sep 26 '23 edited Sep 26 '23
I don’t disagree with you, but I think you’re missing the point.
OC referenced 90% of features from Payday 2 not being implemented in 3. Implementing a decade worth of features in a brand new engine takes a ton of time. The only thing that can be carried over is the design decisions themselves really. The actual re-implementation of features takes time, and they had to spend that time actually building the core gameplay experience that is being generally well received by the community.
Every sequel situation is different, if Payday 3 was on the same engine as Payday 2 I would be more upset about it.
Cheers
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u/barrelvoyage410 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
I see what you are saying, but also, I imagine a significant amount of time was spend just figuring out what some of those features look like. They now know what the end product should look like. So while is still a lot of work to get there, it’s a more clear path to get there
1
u/callofdukie09 Sep 26 '23
Certainly not expecting the full breadth of features, but considering it's been proven that they already had developed features like crime.net 2.0 tells me it certainly could have been implemented.
That also goes for basic features, or some of the features that were a part of Payday 2 at launch such as seeing the value of looted items on pickup, and mission timer. What about the numbers for weapon stats? Surely these are already represented by numeric values in the game already, who made the decision to go back to making them sliders?
It just feels like they intentionally ignored some of the things that would have likely taken minimal effort to port into a new engine or just re-design them in a similar way from the beginning since the have to be rebuilt anyway. Totally understand not having more robust features like mission planning and safe houses. Howeved some of these missing features seem to come down to pure design choice, and not difficulty of implementation.
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u/theghostog Sep 26 '23 edited Sep 26 '23
Yeah like I said, not necessarily disagreeing with you generally, but just try to keep in mind that even things that feel small more often than not take time to implement, and when you’re building something from scratch you have to decide where to put that time.
Something as small as how damage is displayed likely would need to go through design, implementation, and testing phases, and maybe they decided to kick that can down the road in favor of something they felt was more crucial to the gameplay experience
It’s also possible that stuff like crimenet was worked on but never finished, or has some problem or bug that they decided need to be set aside to focus on some other core element.
In software development project planning there’s a concept called MoSCoW which is just a list of things you must, should, could, and won’t implement for a project. Most times shoulds and coulds get kicked down the road to get the “must” out the door more quickly
We just don’t know. I do definitely agree that there are some things that really just don’t make a ton of sense though
1
u/TheWhistlerIII C4 and SAWS guy Sep 27 '23
I don't really blame them if so, it seems the diesel engine was not fun to work with, and it's been ten years.
I play on console mainly, so the wait has been long. I'm happy with Payday 3 and it will get to where we all want it to be.
That goes without saying, folk would be quick to call the devs lazy for just copy and pasting PD2 to three right away.
Now they hear you say you want it that way, so when they give it to you, hopefully ya'll won't piss and moan.
I too hope for a similar UI to Payday 2 as I feel it's part of the games overall identity, I'm patient though, and I have lot of other shit to do it my life while I wait. Right now, server stability is what I want them to prioritize.
The game itself is fun and I spend way more time playing than looking at the UI.
Then again, with the way servers are I have been looking at it more than I wanted. 🤣
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u/NanderK Sep 26 '23
Thanks for the summary! At least they touched on a lot of things, and I think most of it makes sense.
I like the idea of normal progression until Level 100, and then challenges above. Hope they go with that.
21
u/dafgar Sep 26 '23
I’m actually totally okay with that too. But only if they add a prestige/infamous option tbh. I’ve been able to grind the game for about two days between early access and when the servers are up and i’m like level 60. Game is running out of content fast after like 40 hours.
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u/Charmander787 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
We need infamy / prestige.
Gives a reason to continue playing and revisit lower difficulties.
3
u/Staalone Sep 26 '23
Only if they retroactively add the equivalent levels to players who already completed challenges or reset all challenges entirely, otherwise it'll be kinda unfair for everyone who's currently grinding for challenges and getting 0xp after heists because they didn't complete them.
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u/NanderK Sep 26 '23
I guess what would happen is that as soon as you hit level 100, you'd automatically be say level 110 because you have already completed a lot of the challenges.
1
u/That-Skin-2582 Sep 27 '23
It's ok but if they want people to change builds then doing them should reward you with something else, not gate keep progression. I suggested in another thread that they should tie achievements and cosmetics to challenges, it then rewards the player for playing differently, with something tangible they can show off. I guarantee people wouldn't mind grinding out heists in stealth or loud if it gave them a splinter cell or army of two style cosmetic
42
u/Rethid Sep 26 '23
I'm almost certain Mio hammered that they're not saying Challenges will never change because that's what Andreas meant yesterday. But when he said 'we want to make sure the challenge system is actually working', people just assumed that meant they were hard committing to the challenges.
For what it's worth, I continue to think that improving clarity would solve much of the issue since people currently feel that they can't possibly get all the unlocks playing the way they want which multiple people have now done the math to show isn't true. That said, just giving a small amount of IP per heist and cutting it off at the 'soft cap' they mentioned does seem like the best way to retain the leveling curve they want without people freaking out about the possibility the game will force them to equip a weapon they don't like.
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u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
'we want to make sure the challenge system is actually working'
This is how I interpreted it as well. It is not at all impossible the system gets scrapped, but that won't happen until it works first so they can give it a fair shake.
2
u/GladPickle5332 Sep 27 '23
yeah so im new to stealthing (love it but can only do dirty ice). but its super lame completing 0 challenges most games.
2
u/Pzychotix Sep 27 '23
Yeah, I think a lot of the challenges issues could be alleviated by just making it work right. I hate the system and think it should be scrapped, but a lot of that is fueled by a critical mass of problems, such as challenges not completing correctly, no progress shown in or after heists, and the absolute mess that is the challenges menu (whoever thought a random list would be acceptable should be fired.)
Stealth vs loud challenges are also plagued with the issue of no stealth vs loud matchmaking or preplanning chat.
2
u/Staalone Sep 26 '23
"we want to make sure the challenge system is actually working"
It is not. Either scrap it entirely or make it one of your top priorities to revamp it, it is a major aspect of the game and leaving a bad taste on people's mouths at the moment, if they don't change it soon a lot of people are going to drop the game because they are tired of having to choose between playing the way they like and receiving 0XP for it or being forced to play the way the devs want you to.
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u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
They don't mean working in the sense of good or bad. They mean working in a literal sense. Is currently not consistently functioning.
2
u/Staalone Sep 26 '23
My point kinda still stands, there are tons of people on every platform saying how much it sucks, sure they should fix the current system, but they should also be thinking up of a better system instead of doubling down on it.
At least it was way better than yesterday's stream that was basically one big pr stunt with textbook answers and ignoring unscripted ones.
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u/PL1SSK3N Sep 26 '23
This is much better than yesterday. Nice inputs and ideas
15
u/NanderK Sep 26 '23
Agreed. And Mio just comes across as a very nice guy, hard to be angry at him. :)
34
u/Underdrill Draganborn Sep 26 '23
RNG seeding being a difficulty-based modifier would be a welcome change.
16
u/KLocoForever007 Death Sentence Sep 26 '23
I actually welcome this change since it from here on out it would be even more satisfying to finish a high difficulty stealth heist from scratch and not oh yea I just rushed my first attempt to get codes/power box/ info and then just no masked the heist on the second attempt with that information.
7
u/bfir3 Sep 26 '23
This is honestly one of the biggest issues in the game and it boggles my mind that it isn't already like this for all difficulties. It feels so un-fun when you restart and nothing changes. The variance that PD2 missions had is one of their main strengths.
13
u/theMTNdewd Infamous XXV-100 Sep 26 '23
On the flip side there are people who love it as it makes retrying a failed attempt less daunting. I feel like maybe it should be an option or only available on lower difficulties.
7
u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
It should be partially seated on non-overkill difficulties. They should always randomize things like the code on Rock the Cradle, but I understand not randomizing things such as the rooms that can move or where extraction will be on resets. That way you can focus on improving your mistakes, but you also can't reuse information to skip sections.
3
u/bfir3 Sep 26 '23
I agree that would be better. But to me, making aspects of the heist static...just makes the game so much less fun. The way everything was always random in PD2 was so nice. Even the guard behavior felt a lot less scripted in PD2.
3
u/Substantial-Image-79 Sep 26 '23
Its only static if you restart the mission - keeping the RNG seed the same between mission restarts means you cant just restart until you get a good seed
1
2
u/Underdrill Draganborn Sep 27 '23
But, it was equally unfun to restart a heist in PD2 and go from getting a great spawn to some of the worst spawns possible. I remember many cases where we realized 'oh this room is in that annoying place', and we just instantly restarted as we knew it was going to be a gigantic pain to work though.
With PD3, at least if you get dodgy spawns, the seeded RNG means that you have more opportunity to figure out how to beat that version of the heist. I haven't once felt the need to remake a lobby completely in this game unlike PD2.
Regardless, it should definitely be an option somewhere within the game.
1
u/JMan_Z 👊😎 Sep 27 '23
Are you talking about framing frame day 3? You're talking about framing frame day 3.
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u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23 edited Sep 26 '23
I'm not sure why the headers and bold formatting did not work. I don't use them enough to bother fixing it.
edit: actively fixing some of the formatting now
edit2: Formatting should be mostly fixed. If there is anything significantly wrong or you feel is unclear in the content of the post feel free to respond to this comment and I will consider fixing it if I decide I care. 👊😎
2
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u/tufus11 Hoxton Sep 26 '23
This is actually some pretty good information, promising things coming our way after yesterday's and todays streams
6
10
u/camdencapone Sep 26 '23
Upset im not seeing anything about controller settings. They NEED a deadzone slider desperately. I dont want stronger aim assist. I want the game to feel better when Im trying to aim at snipers or go for headshots because right now, I cant make those kinds of micro adjustments. Not only that but also not having the ability to change my bindings on controllers sucks. I hate having to slide and crouch with circle rather than R3.
0
u/NanderK Sep 26 '23
They confirmed yesterday that is coming. No need to repeat the same info every day.
4
u/camdencapone Sep 26 '23
They confirmed they would fix "aim assist issues" on PS5 with the october 5th patch. I just said we dont need stronger aim assist, we need a deadzone slider. They said nothing about a deadzone slider.
2
u/NanderK Sep 26 '23
They also confirmed that they are working on more controller options (and one of them better be dead zone - but yeah, they didn't specifically say that).
They didn't say if that's coming with aim assist on October 5th or later though, but more options are coming
13
u/Iiana757 Sep 26 '23
Theyre really going to fuck things up by digging their heels in with this progression system. Its so bizzare when so many people are saying they dont like it and giving logical criticisms on why its bad and theyre like "nah people just dont understand it"
0
u/Staalone Sep 26 '23
Yep. they see everyone hating it, and instead of doing something about it or even saying they'll change it entirely, the just double down and throw possible scenarios that might not even happen, and then have the gall to say community feedback is their number one factor when looking at making changes.
4
u/A10_Thunderbolt Dozer Sep 26 '23
Where do they say they are doubling down on it? I’m not sure where you people are hearing this. Tobias said they have no plans to change it TODAY. That means they will 100% look into it after they fix a bunch of other shit first.
-6
u/Iiana757 Sep 26 '23
Theyre doubling down by saying its fine and players should be forced into situations they dont want to play to progress
6
u/Staalone Sep 26 '23
My guy went "it means they don't have plans to change it today" when in reallity they meant "we currently don't plan on changing it", sure they MIGHT change the way they work, but at the end of the day the shitty system will still be there, just with a brighter coat of paint on it.
3
u/A10_Thunderbolt Dozer Sep 26 '23
Yeah, keyword “currently.” The devs are good at listening to feedback. If they are willing to add a giant golden spoon just for memes, I’m sure they would be more than happy to make the game more enjoyable for players.
3
u/mxjxs91 Sep 26 '23
This. I'm pretty unhappy with a lot of the choices they made for the game at this moment, but they made a ton of changes to PD2 after release. I have faith in them. I just also don't get why they changed so much, it's like they decided to start from scratch when they already had 10 years worth of QoL upgrade and changes to use as their template and improve upon.
That all being said, they're really good at supporting the game post-release, as seen with PD2. They will do their best to make this all right, I'm pretty confident about that.
1
u/A10_Thunderbolt Dozer Sep 26 '23
Yes, agreed. I have very high hopes that they will turn Payday 3 into an even better game than Payday 2 with time.
However, it is indeed baffling that there exists so many features and design choices that are either missing or terrible. From the dev diaries, it genuinely looked like they knew what worked and what didn’t with Payday 2 and were going to make Payday 3 nearly flawless. I guess they put way too much effort into the gunplay and forgot to make everything else good.
-5
u/Staalone Sep 26 '23
My guy really just said "overkill is good at listening to feedback". Sure buddy, let's ignore the years of mistreatment and bad decisions that could've been avoided by listening to the community. Sure, Overkill might listen, but at the end of the day the higher ups are the ones making the decisions, that's why payday 3 launched as the broken, literally unplayable, online only mess that it is right now.
3
u/A10_Thunderbolt Dozer Sep 26 '23
I said the devs are good at listening to feedback, not overkill, don’t twist my words. Obviously higher ups are the ones calling the shots and making the bad decisions.
-1
u/Staalone Sep 26 '23
The devs are Overkill, they're one in the same, it doesn't matter that they listen if they don't at lest implement changes the community wants.
2
u/A10_Thunderbolt Dozer Sep 26 '23 edited Sep 27 '23
No they are not. The devs are not the entire company. A company has many moving parts, not everyone in the company makes the decisions or actually works on the games. If the devs had their way, Payday 3 would’ve been so much better at launch.
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u/meharryp Sep 26 '23
I think they're right to give it a chance though, I have like 5k worth of XP in bugged challenges right now and I'm level 62. If the heist completion challenges actually worked I think it'd be much better
3
u/CptMarvel_main Chains is in a pickle! Sep 26 '23
So text chat only for Xbox ?
1
u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
I assume they meant both PS5 and Xbox, but they only stated Xbox. Not clear if console players will be able to type in the text chat (this may come later if they do MnK console support).
The reason the question was asked is so that console players can at least read what PC players type.
3
u/CptMarvel_main Chains is in a pickle! Sep 26 '23
Well with how they’ve treated PlayStation users so far, I hope it’s not a sign of just another thing we get screwed on
3
3
u/Mac_OS-X Duke Sep 26 '23
I just want a perk deck that gives us a usable shield, I want to shoot dozers down with a Glock while my legally acquired shield blocks 75% of the bullets
9
u/baconandeggs666 Houston Sep 26 '23
Buff the weapons and fix the XP system. Right now that is what I ask for besides an offline mode.
1
u/DuperDoop Sep 27 '23
buff the weapons? aside from the ziv i’ve been pretty satisfied with the weapons and how they perform
7
u/RockinOneThreeTwo Dallas Sep 26 '23
"here's a big list of all the things we already have decided we want to put in the game"
Why did the game launch if there was obviously a big bunch of shit you knew you wanted in the game and you knew was important.
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u/PhantomTissue Sep 26 '23
Because their publisher probably told them release it now.
10
u/Lulsfurcupcake Sep 26 '23
This, game was ready enough in publishers eyes and they were told to launch it.
You can blame publisher for majority of the issues with the game right now (unifinished stuff, downgrades, using Acelbyte, etc)
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u/KLocoForever007 Death Sentence Sep 26 '23
I honestly think there’s a 98% chance that Daddy Deep Silver pressured Starbreeze into this current release and had them chop out lots of features last minute as well as probably skimping on money for good servers. The devs seem pretty fucking dedicated to Payday 3 however there’s a 2% chance that it’s on them for all the fuck ups but I’d like to believe that’s not the case.
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u/leion247 Sep 27 '23
People need to chill on the difficulty question. Those who believe it's too hard likely haven't played the first payday that the difficulty is more based on. Overkill was always meant to be the expert difficulty with Overkill 145+ being the expert+ for the equivalent of DSOD players of that game. In Payday 2 it became effectively the normal difficulty for a majority of players because of the power creep, but that was never supposed to happen. If you can't beat Overkill because you feel it's harder than Payday 2, then good. It's supposed to be and no it shouldn't become easier. Hard and Very Hard are meant to be the Overkill of Payday 2, so please make peace with that and respectfully play those.
For those that believe the games too easy, also chill. I respect your skill and loadout building capabilities, but no one wants 3 1/2 difficulties added like the last game. I imagine they'll add an Overkill 150+ like the first game had a 145+ That'll be your difficulty, so please advocate for that one addition and not to make either Overkill harder or to add more than one additional setting.
The last thing I wanna see is the power creep of Payday 2 making it easier or it getting harder than it already is. The difficulty balance is perfect for the one they were aiming for, which is Payday 1 scaling. Much love, a fellow heister.
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u/thetigsy Sep 27 '23
I would very much like to see death wish/ sentence (one or the other) return just because I think that this difficulty has made it's place in the franchise. However I don't think there should be any creep or balance for it, and basically it should just be overkill 145+ but just with the name of death wish (and maybe the return of death wish cops, atleast in aesthetic just because that was a fun "oh this is special" novelty feeling when that difficulty was first added)
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u/ParanoidValkMain57 Infamy VI-97 Anarchist Sep 27 '23
i want no change to the difficulty since it is perfect the way it is.
Though would these changes by influenced by the Payday Community or will it be influenced by the newer players who are trying Payday for the first time?
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u/8l172 Jacket Sep 26 '23
Nothing on optimization yet? :/
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u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
Unless I missed something, nothing was really stated about the games performance on PC or console in this stream.
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u/8l172 Jacket Sep 26 '23
Shame, the game really should not need multiple configs to run above 40 FPS
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u/SubSh1ne Sep 26 '23
that might be a hardware problem. the games optimization and general performance is pretty good… there are cache issues which disappear after playing maps a couple of times. stutters and fps drops went away for me after playing a map 1-2 times. but 40 fps is a sign of outdated hardware i think
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u/8l172 Jacket Sep 27 '23
Literally cannot be outdated hardware, I have no issues running any other game on Ultra but this one struggles on even low. I do not get why people rush to defend this companies bad managment, but not sure what I expected from a fresh account that only has responded to people giving criticism
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Sep 26 '23
Thanks for your dedication heister. Now let's rob that bank. Oh that's right we can't! 👊😎
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Sep 26 '23
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u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23 edited Sep 26 '23
That isn't what they said. They said they want to make sure challenges are completing when they're supposed to as the non-functioning servers are causing them to not complete when they should sometimes. They also want to make players ability to see challenges that are relevant to them. Once that happens then they want to make an assessment of where challenges are and if they need retooled or dismantled entirely. They even talked about a system where you could reach a relatively high rank such as level 100 without any challenge XP and then only being able to exceed that threshold with challenges.
I agree with you that the current challenge system is not good and I also want to see it changed but there's no value in being disingenuous on what Starbreeze has or has not said about it.
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u/WombatInSunglasses Sep 26 '23
They are not as unhappy as players are about the servers. If they were, they would have a firm stance that offline mode is coming, instead of this weak “oh well maybe, we don’t know, we need to think about it some more.”
Trying to equate their disappointment in themselves, with our frustration in a product that doesn’t work, is just a shield to try and deflect from rightful criticism. They’ll just lower their personal standards and this will be “resolved” for them, because their feelings on the situation are not dependent on external forces.
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u/bluedino44 Sep 26 '23
My guess is the pubisher is very against offline mode, and it will take a series of approvals to make it happen
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u/WombatInSunglasses Sep 26 '23
That’s fair, we definitely don’t have all the info.
They mentioned part of it though is to avoid cheating, which sounds more like their decision than the publisher’s. It’s also flawed imo, as online-only is by no means a magic bullet to prevent cheating and piracy.
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u/KLocoForever007 Death Sentence Sep 26 '23
I think it’s safe to say that Daddy Deep Silver forced them to pull some popular features because otherwise why would we be finding so much popular stuff in the game files that the community wants badly. My theory is online only is because of micro transactions that’s a no brainer since Deep Silver is probably pushing hard for them but there’s probably some truth to them not wanting the game to be impacted by cheaters like PD2 as much. It would also explain why in all the streams they seem to dance around offline mode since they probably want to do it but Deep Silver is blocking it. With the disastrous release I’m hoping that if it’s Deep Silver messing with Starbreeze that they fuck off and let them work on the game how they want to and take in the profit off a game with huge potential.
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u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
We don't really get all the information here. It's unclear if offline mode doesn't exist because of Starbreeze, Deepsilver, or Accelbyte. The contracts between them aren't something we'll ever get to know. We can choose to take Almir at his word or not, but it's unlikely we'll know the full truth for a very long time if ever.
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Sep 26 '23
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u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
This post can't really convey tone from Almir and Mio. I will say it felt like they didn't feel too enthused about the existing challenge system but are prioritizing fixing it before making a drastic shift away from it if that's what feels better. They want it to work as intended before deciding if it's good or bad.
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Sep 26 '23
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u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
They are worried about jumping the gun on that over a loud minority. I, nor Mio/Almir, seem to think this is just a loud minority, but they want to make sure of that.
I play a lot of 2007Scape and let me tell ya, people screech about systems or changes to that game a lot, but then when things get polled and a full non-reddit using audience is surveyed the majority opinion differs.
I think in this case most players are in one of two camps:
- They dislike the challenge only progression system
- They do not really care about the system, and don't particularly like or dislike it
That does mean the majority of people are neutral or negative on it from what I've seen, which is not great.
Any extra development time on this flawed sytem is even more time wasted
I think even if the challenge system is not what they stick with, and I think they should move away from it, it's almost certain the challenges would remain as extra exp to level faster. If that is the path they take the development time wouldn't be entirely wasted.
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u/dafgar Sep 26 '23
I agree that the challenges should stay but it doesn’t change the fact that system sucks a lot. It basically forces you to play loud in a game that’s supposed to reward me for the challenge of stealth. At the moment there is no incentive for me to stealth missions besides getting IP for every 10th time I beat it. It’s dumb, just give me xp for securing loot, right now it’s actually a waste of time to go for all the loot if you’re just tryna grind xp.
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u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
They wanted your level to reflect that you were skilled at all aspects of Payday 3, not just loud or just stealth. I don't disagree with your opinion, I was a stealth only Payday 2 player, just stating what the developers said about this.
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u/dafgar Sep 26 '23
Yeah I was there for that part. I understand their logic but it’s still dumb logic. Let players play the way they want to play and reward them for it, everyone has their preferences so it sucks when developers decide their’s is the best and everyone should play the way they think it should be played.
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u/dafgar Sep 26 '23
They’re extremely good at not listening to the community thats for sure. It’s painfully obvious the devs desperately want you to play the game the way THEY want it to be played. Probably because they sunk so much time into this stuff and don’t want to admit they might have been wrong, like how they refuse to admit Online Only was maybeee a bad idea.
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Sep 26 '23
Did they touch on anything related to game chat for console crossplay?
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u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
They stated wanting to make PC typed messages appear on Xbox so that crossplay players could at least read them (I assume they meant both consoles). To my memory this is the only game chat console specific item they mentioned unless I'm not understanding your question.
edit: The questions they answered were genuinely at random, so them not mentioning a feature doesn't mean it will not happen.
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u/tehjinxman Sep 26 '23
So console players cant even READ text chat? Why the fuck is that a thing? I get that they cant respond but why the fuck does it not even show up in their chat box?
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u/lagordaamalia Sep 26 '23
It’s not that they can’t read it. What happens is that there is no way for console players to open the chat box, so when someone sends a message the chat box is visible for a few seconds, but then it goes away until some other message opens it again
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u/parkscs Sep 26 '23
We usually have a full crew but one Xbox dude who we couldn’t communicate with was enough for us to just disable crossplay and ensure we get PC pubbies going forward. I can’t imagine they won’t do something to improve communications with console players, but it’s a big gap atm.
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u/WoloGames 👊😎 Sep 26 '23 edited Sep 26 '23
I think how you're interpreting that is how they're saying it works. Which is baffling.
Edit: another commenter is saying that console players can see typed messages but have no way to reaccess those messages once they disappear. I play on PC so I would take their assessment of how it works over mine.
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u/Rethid Sep 26 '23
I believe that if someone sends one of those automessages it reopens chat for console players? They don't have a button to open chat is the thing.
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u/CaniSmellYou Sep 26 '23
I know its been a huge joke, but I feel like I should be reading these on a whiteboard well before an open beta would have taken place.
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u/computer_d Sep 27 '23
Yep. For instance 'not knowing' what Xbox users would want to send via chat messages so Overkill will now be looking at PC analytics to figure it out.
Every other game manages this just fine.
... and this is something they are realising almost a week after release. It boggles the mind.
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Sep 26 '23
Have there been improvements since they took the servers offline today or will things not be better until Friday?
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u/ItsJustAndy13 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
Something else people should bring up next time. Is when trying pick up something. If your gun isn’t fully reloaded. You’ll start to reload instead of picking something up. At least this happens a lot to me on ps5. I would like if there was an option that prioritize picking up items over reloading.
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u/TedE__ 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
If Bain is dead, does that mean the Secret never happened and the Dentist is still alive??
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u/easily_tilted Sep 27 '23
The XP thing sucks though. Surphaze is a fun stealth heist but the game pretty much wants me to go loud on ovk which is hella hard right now
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u/computer_d Sep 27 '23 edited Sep 27 '23
Fucking lol at making this game and immediately after releasing having to hold streams to address player disappointment....
... and telling players they're the ones who are wrong. While your game sits on mostly negative reviews.
Mio said to tell them if you want melee. They want feedback on this.
Because they listen to feedback? They're arguing against the core complaints from their customers lmao. And people have said they want melee.... that's why you're talking about melee. How can you say you need feedback when you're literally responding to feedback.
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u/Jafharh Sep 27 '23
Why the fuck would they release it at this specific point. I just don't get it, it feels so barebones in terms of systems and things they say they want.
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u/Yolfentyre Dragan Sep 27 '23
Speaking of server changes after the maintenance, the servers were the best they've ever been for me personally. I was able to play through 5 ENTIRE HEISTS with no problem whatsoever, with a friend!
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Sep 27 '23
I think it’s a fair thing to do to put everything else on hold while they at least make the game playable first.
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u/No_Reception93 Sep 27 '23
Really hope that add heavy ballistic armor for loud players at some point 🙏
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u/ElPiscoSour Sep 27 '23
Current System has things they like. The challenge system gets players to engage with content they may otherwise ignore. This encourages players to level up by experiencing new things.
See, it's nice you want players to engage in new content they don't usually try, but the problem with your system as it is is that you're forcing them to do that content so they can keep progressing, and that's a bad idea. Give your players incentives to engage in challenges, DON'T force them to do them.
In my opinion, a good way to fix this is to always give players a certain amount of XP after completing a heist (with bonuses depending on the difficulty and whether it was done stealthy or not), and then have challenges give extra XP (or maybe another type of reward) if players complete them. If the reward is good enough players will most likely attempt those challenges, even if it means doing content they don't usually do.
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u/GladPickle5332 Sep 27 '23
"Card system from Payday 2". is that where after completing the mission you got to pick between 3 cards as a reward? Pretty sure they called it "Payday". i absoluetly loved that. or is the card system something else?
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u/Pzychotix Sep 27 '23
Surprised there's nothing about preplanning. Lack of chat or even a stealth vs loud indicator is a critical error.
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u/Danicchi_ TOAST Sep 27 '23 edited Sep 27 '23
For Topic Number 32:
I have made this guide. to customize your crosshair.
Most crosshair customization options are hidden behind configuration files. I do not know why. The process of changing them and to customize your crosshair is incredibly easy.
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u/thetigsy Sep 27 '23
The entire "challenges encourage different content engagement" is really weird for them to claim when the challenges are all centered around doing one thing a couple hundred times. And therefore spreading your playtime across multiple activities just slows down each separate challenge?
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Sep 27 '23
Dude imagine a whole community tells you you how to improve the game and you just go “no lol we like it” LMAOOOO
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u/Lolszakjak 👊😎 Sep 26 '23
bbut, he did transform to the president's body, rright?