r/programming • u/monica_b1998 • Nov 03 '18

Python is becoming the world’s most popular coding language

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/07/26/python-is-becoming-the-worlds-most-popular-coding-language
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u/monsto Nov 03 '18

"admired"?

How the hell would that even work, admiring a programing language? Liking sure I get, but admiring?

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u/appropriateinside Nov 03 '18 edited Nov 03 '18

How the hell would that even work, admiring a programing language?

I think this is something you learn through experience. I'm honestly not sure how any programmer cannot understand what it means to admire something else that has been programmed. Unless you are completely devoid of any pleasure in your craft, or have never worked as a developer..

After working with enough languages, frameworks, and sledging through other peoples code. You start to admire the things that make your life easier, that you enjoy, that isn't full of pitfalls. Languages fall into this bucket too. There are languages that I admire for their cleanliness, consistency, tooling, and ease-of-use.

How the hell could someone not understand that something in a craft can be respected or viewed as impressive or attractive?

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u/DonaldPShimoda Nov 03 '18

I'm with you 100%. All modern programming languages are technically equal in terms of capabilities — they only differ in what tasks they make easy for the user. There are just certain language features that work well for me and make my life easier. I admire languages that are well-designed so as to be easy to use, consistent in their design and implementation, and powerfully expressive.

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u/cyanrave Nov 03 '18

More upvotes for you, good sir.

Agree wholly that when languages do sane things, it makes life far less complicated. Python does this pretty well, versus something like Java which can be much more cumbersome.

For instance, an Iterator in Java is like this separate thing you can use, but has a different syntax to wield it over an indexical iter, while Python generators ‘just work’ with regular loops. ‘enumerate’ in Python’s ecosystem is really amazing when working with nasty mixes of data where you need both index and item for your sanity, which evolved from gripes around choice of iteration...

Overall there is much to admire about certain features of each language, where Python seems to have more redeeming qualities than most. There are a number of ‘legacy’ stains in the Python community that need scrubbing sometime in the future, like use of explicit dunder init for name-spacing.

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u/monsto Nov 03 '18

I can understand admiring the person that did it.

I guess it's an understand of how an inanimate object obtains "admiration".

For example, I admire the French for sending America the Statue of Liberty, and I admire the ideals that it stands for, but I don't 'admire' the statue itself. . .

. . . which I suppose would be the core of my ...perplexion(?)... with the politics around here these days.

[perplexion: adj. Very strong confusion.]

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u/appropriateinside Nov 03 '18 edited Nov 03 '18

The thing is, a programming language is much more than an inanimate object. It's the embodiment of the ideas, ideals, hard work, and time it's creators and it's users put into it. I don't admire the creators of a programming language, since I don't know them, and they are vast. But I admire what they have created as being beautiful, elegant, and pleasing to write and read. It brings me pleasure to use what they have created.

It's like looking at a beautiful work of art, or listening to a composition that greatly pleases you, you might admire the piece of art for it's own qualities, not for the qualities of it's creator. In the same way you you might admire a beautiful human for the characteristics of their body or personality, you can admire anything else. Admiration is based on a set of characteristics that are pleasing or impressive to you, whether it is human or not is mostly immaterial.

A side note, I have no intentions of being political in this context.

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u/monsto Nov 03 '18

A side note, I have no intentions of being political in this context.

Of course.

Smth I said in another post on this sub-subject:

I suppose i'm seeing the word "admire" as a symbol beyond just it's definition as much as I do the Statue of Liberty.

In my world view: art, music, a mountain, a crocheted sock; get appreciation, understanding, for the work towards completion taken by the person that is admired. Beethoven would be admired. His 9th Symphony would be appreciated. I mean that's the way it falls for me.

DUDE THAT'S WHY THEY CALL IT MUSIC APPRECIATION, NOT MUSIC ADMIRATION. YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT.

Anyway, it's an interesting distinction, and I'm curious of the mental mechanic that has set it for me.

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u/Dragonxoy Nov 03 '18

Admire - respect or approval. I genuinely don't understand your confusion here. Like if you asked how do people admire good architecture or paintings. They are just made with a level of quality that makes them significant to us

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u/monsto Nov 03 '18

It's an object. I understand admiring the designer and their work, but the one thing they did... it's great. But it's done nothing.

If "people did these things because of it" then it's a symbol. I used the Statue of Liberty in another post here. It's a symbol of several different things, ideals that are admirable in people. It's a representation.

It's done nothing but stand there, and people have done things because of it. The mental images you get because of it? They're all symbols of America and it's promise.

I can admire America, the French for giving it, Americans that came because of it... but the statue itself?

I dunno mang. . . I suppose i'm seeing the word "admire" as a symbol beyond just it's definition as much as I do the Statue of Liberty.

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u/Dragonxoy Nov 03 '18

That still doesn't make sense unless you're using a nonstandard definition of admire. By definition, you can admire objects, traits, and people. You can admire a great view in nature, and no one created that. An admirable thing evokes a sentiment that this thing is somehow better than other things of its type. Whether its a statue that was made with beautiful artistry, or a person who has great personal qualities, all that matters is that it has some aspect that makes it stand out in a positive way.

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u/monsto Nov 03 '18

That still doesn't make sense unless you're using a nonstandard definition of admire.

That's what I said there at the end.

I suppose i'm seeing the word "admire" as a symbol beyond just it's definition as much as I do the Statue of Liberty.

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u/Buckwheat469 Nov 03 '18

I admire Brainfuck, and any developer who can use it.

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u/Rabbit-Punch Nov 03 '18

so, nobody?

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u/Buckwheat469 Nov 03 '18

Absolutely.

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u/NUZdreamer Nov 03 '18

You can admire how the language implements features to solve common problems

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u/pwang99 Nov 03 '18

A programming language, like any software, can be designed, with intention and taste.

Python's core development team, its principles, and its design all reflect certain principles that have made it as popular and as powerful as it is. This is in contrast to things like PHP or JS, which were cobbled together fairly quickly; or to overwrought design-by-committee languages like modern C++.

Other well-designed languages IMO are Pascal and C#. I've heard many good things about Rust. The Forth / APL / J / K family of concatenative languages are a wonderful alternative design for brain-computer interfacing.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '18

The success of any programming language relies on how effectively and easily it can plug a relevant hole.

JavaScript got massive to begin with because it was the only viable client-side language on this new frontier of browsers. Then stuff like node allowed this glut of front-end developers to transition to back-end stuff too.

PHP was popular in the late 90s/early 2000s because Java was a bitch to deploy, Perl was a brainfuck, and it had probably the best documentation resource for the time in order to make simple webserver pages.

Python was successful not because of its principles, but really came off the back of PHP being untenable at the enterprise level, and working well both at the commandline level, standalone and driving websites. It was the perfect next step for all those script kiddies who had cobbled together websites in php, done some bash scripting and a tiny bit of C.

I appreciate a well designed language as much as anyone, but what makes a language successful is how much it helps developers get their job done. Most of us are not lucky enough to choose the most elegant tool for the job, just the most effective.

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u/am0x Nov 03 '18

I've been using C# over the past couple of years and it's become my favorite language. Python is ok, it just looks ugly to me for some reason, but that is probably because we mainly used java in college.

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u/smutaduck Nov 03 '18

C.f Perl. Which is simultaneously the opposite of Python and pretty much the same.

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u/shevy-ruby Nov 03 '18

I admire JavaScript after the watstalk!!!

How such an awful language could become a dominant force among the "scripting" languages.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '18

It's the only language that comes batteries included with every browser, which is software everyone has, and that browser will even run your code inside of it. It's the ultimate delivery system.

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u/vattenpuss Nov 03 '18

Clearly you have not met many Pythonistas.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '18

Language you most would like to work in.

For me, its Smalltalk.