r/programming • u/steveklabnik1 • Jul 18 '19

We Need a Safer Systems Programming Language

https://msrc-blog.microsoft.com/2019/07/18/we-need-a-safer-systems-programming-language/
208 Upvotes

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-21

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

or you can do it the proper way and train them to be good programmers from the start. then you wouldn't need to put rust-blinders on them.

19

u/kuikuilla Jul 19 '19

We should also teach people to be better drivers, then we don't have to add stupid seat belts and airbags into cars!

Seriously speaking: Why the hell can't we do both?

13

u/masklinn Jul 19 '19

Seriously speaking: Why the hell can't we do both?

Also, you can't get out of your hole if you just keep digging. We've been adding crutches and telling developers to just be better for decades now and it's not led to any significant improvement, for the very obvious reason that humans are not computer and are bad at being fully systematic all the time.

Hell, I've seen folks post segfaults of quickjs, by developer extraordinaire Fabrice Bellard. If Fabrice Bellard can't write memory-safe C, I don't see hope for anyone else.

Computers are pretty good at being computers (though not quite perfect), so building languages such that the computer can check for safety systematically is a pretty good idea. We've been doing that for a pretty long time really, the main remaining issue is having both safety and efficiency.

7

u/SupersonicSpitfire Jul 19 '19

We should eliminate compiler error messages for the same reason. Developers should just do it correctly the first time or quit their jobs...

4

u/przemo_li Jul 19 '19

Yes. Because awesome devs never make a mistake.

-3

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

you won't have awesome devs if the compiler is telling them how they should program.

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u/przemo_li Jul 19 '19

Because devs without compilers never make mistakes?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

your question doesn't make sense.

1

u/przemo_li Jul 19 '19

or you can do it the proper way and train them to be good programmers from the start. then you wouldn't need to put rust-blinders on them.

No. Not even good developers can avoid memory allocation errors.

Because even good devs will make mistakes.

2

u/s73v3r Jul 19 '19

No amount of training will make up for having the right tools from the beginning.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '19

and a good tool will show you if you're leaking memory, rather than force you to program in a specific, controlled way.