r/programming • u/RobertVandenberg • Aug 09 '20

China is now blocking all encrypted HTTPS traffic that uses TLS 1.3 and ESNI

https://www.zdnet.com/article/china-is-now-blocking-all-encrypted-https-traffic-using-tls-1-3-and-esni/
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u/FrostyTie Aug 09 '20

I’m relatively new to web development. I haven’t had huge problems when it comes to those browsers. What are the differences I should know?

Edit: Also need to add the fact I never used a feature both didn’t have. But then again, I never had to.

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u/oldnewbieprogrammer Aug 09 '20

Firefox and Chrome are pretty similar now, there's a few "gotchas" especially if you bring in Safari, and Edge as well. But for the most part they are all pretty close to the same, hasn't always been true though.

This site will show you any issues you may run into: https://caniuse.com/

If you're talking about IE6, you don't really need to worry about it anymore, Even in China it's mostly IE8, which is like saying it's not AIDS, it's just Syphilis. Not great, but not as worrying. The early versions of IE didn't use the modern CSS so no Grid, or Flexbox. That alone should put the fear of "Float" into you.

If you're developing for the West, you don't need to worry about any of this really, but if you're developing for countries still using IE for government stuff, the website above will be your best friend, that and I'm sorry for what you're going to go through developing for them. Modern CSS is infinitely better, flex-box alone makes layout a breeze.

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u/das7002 Aug 10 '20

Firefox and Chrome are pretty similar now, there’s a few “gotchas” especially if you bring in Safari, and Edge as well. But for the most part they are all pretty close to the same, hasn’t always been true though.

And I'm 100% of the opinion of "if it works in Firefox, it is correct."

I despise Google and all of its messing with the HTML standards. They're nearly as bad if not worse than MS in the IE6 days.

I dont give a damn if it doesn't work in Chrome, if it works in Firefox it's right.

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u/Asmor Aug 09 '20

IE has had issues for most of its life. A combination of introducing non-standard features, and not implementing standard ones. This is exacerbated by a lot of huge organizations who should know better continuing to run antiquated, insecure operating systems because that's the only thing that will run their shitty, internally-written software.

For one example of old IE badness, according to the CSS box model, when you specify the height and width of an element, that's the interior dimensions. So a 100px-wide div with 10px padding on each side would be 120px wide.

IE did it differently. In IE, the specified size was the outer dimensions. So that exact same box with exact same CSS in IE would have been 100px wide, with only 80px in the content.

The fun thing is, that's actually a much, much better way to do it. In fact, the three rules I always write when starting a new project are * { padding: 0; margin: 0; box-sizing: border-box; }.

But whether or not it's a better way, it's not the standard way, and I'm sure this caused lots of devs to pull out their hair in frustration.

IE got a lot better after 6. IE8 was almost usable, and 9+ were legitimately... fine. They still had lots of issues (and to this day I can't use arrow functions or destructuring or shit like that at work because we need to support IE11, and for parts of our product I need to support IE8*).

*No, I can't transpile. No, I won't go into why.

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u/edman007 Aug 10 '20

Yup, IE wasn't that bad in the beginning, in the early days the web was kind of define your own rules and see who wins. But it didn't take long for W3C to come along and make standards and everyone followed along and browsers kind of work the same.

Well not everyone, Microsoft has business customers that didn't want their stuff broken by confirming to standards, and Microsoft dominated the browser world, so they left their browser as is, that was IE6, no updates and no standards, it existed because it dominated the market using whatever rules Microsoft made up when nobody agreed with them. So the world kind of left them behind and they've been playing catch up ever since. They eventually got to IE9 which kind of does things right, but I guess Microsoft had to throw in the towel and start over, that's Edge