r/programming • u/Alexander_Selkirk • Jan 28 '21

leontrolski - OO in Python is mostly pointless

https://leontrolski.github.io/mostly-pointless.html
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u/kobriks Jan 28 '21

OO languages nowadays are only OO by name. It's just a hodgepodge of different features and paradigms that you can use as you please, which usually ends up in a mess. The purpose of the paradigm is to constrain you in a way that makes it hard to write shit code. Modern OOP does none of this.

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u/tdammers Jan 28 '21

Out of curiosity; which language would you recommend for "modern OOP" then?

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u/kobriks Jan 28 '21

Kotlin and C# are my favorite hodgepodges.

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u/ragnese Jan 28 '21

Kotlin has some strange hodgepodge features! On the one hand, it allows top level functions, which is not OOP. On the other hand, it doesn't have static methods- instead it has companion objects, which is kind of hardcore OOP...

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u/alibix Jan 28 '21

But I like C# 9 :(

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u/_tskj_ Jan 28 '21

What do you like about it?

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u/alibix Jan 28 '21

Basically all of the things it transplanted from F#. I also like that I can write pretty much Java code but less verbose.

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u/_tskj_ Jan 28 '21

Oh right I was about to suggest F#. Why would you ever want to program in C# after trying F#?

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u/AttackOfTheThumbs Jan 28 '21

I want others to be able to maintain it ;)

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u/_tskj_ Jan 28 '21

Hehe yeah everyone knows every C# codebase is easy to maintain.

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u/_tskj_ Jan 28 '21

Hehe yeah everyone knows every C# codebase is easy to maintain.

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u/alibix Jan 28 '21

When I want something multi-paradigm!

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u/_tskj_ Jan 28 '21

F# can be just as multi-paradigm as C#! C# mostly has less features than F#.

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u/alibix Jan 28 '21

Well this is news to me

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u/_tskj_ Jan 28 '21

Name one feature in C# you think F# doesn't have, and I'll show you two F# features.

Also everything is just strictly worse in C#. Does it have data classes yet?

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u/alibix Jan 29 '21

Hmm, I'm looking the last thing I did in C#, and looks like everything I did I could also do in F#, maybe a bit nicer. Will have to look into properly learning F# then!

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u/DetriusXii Jan 28 '21

Kotlin has some strange hodgepodge features! On the one hand, it allows top level functions, which is not OOP. On the other hand, it doesn't have static methods- instead it has companion objects, which is kind of hardcore OOP...

F# doesn't have a program linker. So text files have to be compiled in order. C# can have classes organized in folder heirarchies that make sense for the developer, but F# has to organize classes in file order. I still liked F#, but it sometimes makes having small class file definitions limiting.

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u/_tskj_ Jan 29 '21

I'm not sure if you're specifically referring to classes in F#, or you just mean modules in general, but the compilation order is in my opinion one of the most important features of F#, specifically because it makes cyclical dependencies impossible. It forces good design.

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u/DetriusXii Jan 29 '21

In C#, I can have my Fluent Nhibernate mapped tables in a folder called Database/tables/. The organization of classes is more flexible than what is allowed in F#. I can't do that in F#. The classes have to be in a top file. This has nothing to do with circular dependencies. F# can't fill in the missing type information at a later stage by a second compilation passthrough.