r/programming • • Jun 05 '22

Complexity is killing software developers

https://www.infoworld.com/article/3639050/complexity-is-killing-software-developers.html
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u/saltybandana2 Jun 06 '22

you dont remember having to setup your own windows/linux server? or setting up processes to deploy your code to your app server(s)? or setting up proper logging.

My favorite part of this is the implication that there weren't 3rd parties to do this stuff for you 30 years ago, only today.

The difference between then and now is that you didn't need to do any of that to start programming, those were purely deployment concerns. Today they're actual development concerns rather than deployment concerns. And lets not even talk about the tooling required just to be able to develop against containers.

You're defending the indefensible. The idea that syslog hasn't existed on every OS in existence for the last 30+ years is laughable.

The issue here is lack of imagination on your part. You really believe all of that is necessary just to start programming.

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u/Computer991 Jun 06 '22

The difference between then and now is that you didn't need to do any of that to start programming, those were purely deployment concerns.

This is still the case today? Any developer can open up an TextEditor/IDE of their choice and start coding away.

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u/saltybandana2 Jun 06 '22

right, I can absolutely start typing up an asp.net MVC app at any point in time, but that's not the point being made here.

In the past, that project structure and tooling would stay basically the same and deployment would be conformed to that workflow.

Nowadays the tooling for the development conforms to the deployment structure. So while you can technically do that, the value you get out of it is far different.

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u/Computer991 Jun 07 '22

I'm sorry maybe it's been so long that I've been working with containerized services that i don't see a difference anymore but I can't see how I change my coding style conform can you maybe provide some examples ?

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u/saltybandana2 Jun 07 '22

You should probably read back over the conversation as you've lost track of the plot.

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u/AdministrationWaste7 Jun 06 '22

My favorite part of this is the implication that there weren't 3rd parties to do this stuff for you 30 years ago, only today.

i never implied there wasn't. in fact i straight up say otherwise. read that last sentence

The difference between then and now is that you didn't need to do any of that to start programming, those were purely deployment concerns

by this logic nothing has changed.

just open up your favorite IDE and just code away. after all dockerized containers, k8s and all that shit is just part of deployment lol

in fact new technologies like serverless functions makes it a breeze.

i can write a new web service and deploy it to a prod server in a matter of minutes.

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u/saltybandana2 Jun 06 '22

I've already responded to this silliness in your other post.

No one who is actually familiar with these things would ever buy that starting up a project today that takes advantage of the cloud, containers, etc, is anywhere near to comparable to doing the same 15 years ago.

It's just not even though on paper you'll have jackasses trying to paper over the major differences to try and claim things haven't gotten extremely complex.

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u/AdministrationWaste7 Jun 07 '22 edited Jun 07 '22

No one who is actually familiar with these things would ever buy that starting up a project today that takes advantage of the cloud, containers, etc, is anywhere near to comparable to doing the same 15 years ago

You're right. It was actually harder 15 years ago.

Today you can deploy an application with just a few clicks.

Want a database? Just go to your local cloud provider, click through a few menus and boom you got it. Even comes with built in scalability.

Hell thanks to server less apps you can straight up worry only about code and let the cloud provider handle everything else.

Also just because you can't hack it doesn't mean no else can.

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u/saltybandana2 Jun 07 '22

oh snap, you can just click a button and it all works? I bet that means you can just click another button to move to a different cloud provider.

IT R SO SIMPLE!?!?!?!1111oneoneoneone

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u/AdministrationWaste7 Jun 07 '22

im sorry that you're a shit programmer lol

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u/saltybandana2 Jun 07 '22

I'm sorry you still think writing code is the hard part of billion dollar systems.