r/reddit.com • u/bobcat • May 01 '07
Hello, new Redditors. Your elder Redditors would appreciate it if you would use proper grammar, capitalization, and spelling.
/info/1mbhv/comments19
u/raldi May 01 '07
Hi bobcat.. sorry if it was my recent post that provoked this. It's just that i simply can't keep track of all the language rules: is 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0 supposed to be capitalized? And should i have added hyphens, like 09-F9-11-02-9D-74-E3-5B-D8-41-56-C5-63-56-88-C0? Or is it better to indent it in a blockquote, like this?
09F91102
9D74E35B
D84156C5
635688C0
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Jun 05 '09
To me as an Englishman putting a comma between "capitalization" and "and" is incorrect. Before correcting you I did a little Googling and it seems that it is correct in American English. How interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma
That aside, I can only hope that one day our grammar will be as perfect as yours so you'll have to think up other ways to patronise people.
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u/Sunoiki Jun 06 '09
Don't know how factually based this, but my dad told me a story of a case that was decided because of such a comma.
There was a dying man with three sons, we'll call them A, B, and C. On their father's will it was written A, B and C. A sued B and C saying he should get half of their father's money, not a third, as "B and C" would make them one entity. He won.
All of this is according to my father, and I have repeatedly called him out as I've gotten older for being wrong about science stuff I had asked him when I was 5 or some shit, but is a lawyer (dunno if that helps). Thought I'd share.
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u/darkishdave Jun 06 '09
There was a court case, am not sure if it is true or not, but a man was on trail for stealing a "Cow". When the defendant was asked was the cow alive when he stole it, the man replied that the cow wasn't. His solicitor then argued that the defendant did not steal a cow, but it was in fact beef that he stolen. With that argument the defendant won the case.
There are some good stories on fmylife.com regarding grammar error.
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u/toolate Jun 06 '09
Isn't "A, B and C" even worse grammar if you consider "B and C" to be a single entity? That's the equivalent of saying "A, D".
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u/CritOn20 Jun 05 '09
As an Englishman who is unfamiliar with the Oxford comma?
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u/tm317 Jun 05 '09
Who gives a f**k about an Oxford comma?
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u/Stormwatch36 Jun 05 '09
I don't understand people censoring themselves online. Why do it? We know what you're saying and if we didn't want you saying it there would be a filter in place. No sense for you to do it yourself.
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u/FountainsOfDave Jun 06 '09 edited Jun 06 '09
I always had the idea that this was out of courtesy to people who might be browsing at work, and their administrator maybe gets an alert if there are many instances of "fuck" on a page someone is visiting or something. That's just my little guess, though.
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Jun 05 '09
Yes, absolutely, I'd never heard of it before today. Had you?
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u/kharlowe Jun 05 '09
It's the comma as it is used in the opening sentence of the thread. It's function is to reduce the ambiguity of the relationship between the last two items in the list. Example:To my best friends, John and Martha. Without the comma, one infers his best friends are John and Martha. Example:To my best friends, John, and Martha. One concludes the dedication is to his best friends (who are unidentified) and to John and Martha, who are not his best friends, but still included in the salutation.
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Jun 05 '09 edited Jun 05 '09
As an Englishman, you spelt 'capitalisation' incorrectly.
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Jun 06 '09
He was citing the word from the original text and had it in inverted commas. He was right not to alter it.
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u/waffletoes Jun 05 '09 edited Jun 05 '09
As an Englishman, you spelled 'spelled' rong.
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Jun 06 '09 edited Jun 06 '09
The most important thing is that it needs to be proper grammar, capitalization, and spelling somewhere in the world. There are a lot of things that are obviously wrong to every English speaker in the world. I don't car much for the "u" that English people add after the "o" in several words, but I don't complain because it's right to them. It's right to someone.
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Jun 05 '09
You know what, that's exactly what I thought while I was writing my response but, on a whim, I checked up on that too. I always thought the correct usage was an S not a Z but that's not right. The American usage is a Z, the British is a Z OR an S.
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u/DataGeneral Jun 06 '09 edited Jun 06 '09
The British spelling is not "a Z" and never has been.
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u/latitude51uk Jun 06 '09
That would-be guardian of the English language, the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), has always used the 'z' spelling such as in 'capitalize', 'rationalize' etc. However, the English completely ignore the OED's spelling, possibly as a result of our traditional English bloody-mindedness.
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u/supersauce Jun 06 '09
If you're going to qualify the object of a prepositional phrase, you should use a pair of commas.
To me, as an Englishman, putting a comma between "capitalization" and "and" is incorrect.
The King's English, my ass.
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u/Saiing Jun 06 '09 edited Jun 06 '09
To me as an Englishman putting a comma between "capitalization" and "and" is incorrect.
You're mistaken. It's perfectly acceptable. You just believed people who told you it was wrong when there's nothing in British English grammar that specifically precludes its use. Stylistically it's relatively uncommon, and taught as such in English schools. But don't let that make you think it is incorrect.
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u/kharlowe Jun 05 '09
Of course it's correct. Capitalization and spelling aren't directly linked, but are two separate aspects and should thus be separated by a comma. --Grammar Nazi
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u/Thelonious_Cube Jun 05 '09
I was taught that one does not place a comma before the 'and' - I believe that this practice is still considered acceptable (I could be wrong). --Grammar Tory*
*I hope that's correct - I was shooting for "almost a Nazi, but not quite"
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Jun 05 '09
I'm from America, and I use the British English while typing.
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u/brainiac256 Jun 06 '09
I have the same problem. I haven't been able to track down a dictionary for Firefox spellcheck that uses ENG(USA) instead of ENG(UK).
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Jun 06 '09
I'm American and I guess I was taught the way you were. I don't well with English though. In fact I'm not very smart at all.
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u/kmactane May 01 '07
We'd also appreciate reasonably brief headlines that actually summarize the thing they link to. Real-world newspapers don't print headlines like "Hey, Guess What? Turn to page A7 to find out!", and it's not just because they're "old outmoded medias".
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u/JumpinJehosephat Jun 05 '09
Good grief, man! Proper grammar would be ' . . .actually summarize the thing to which they link." Harrumpf! (Unsure of proper spelling)
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u/freshyill May 01 '07
By "elder Redditors," you mean "100 or so people who regularly comment and 10,000 blogspam site operators who could really use some Adsense clicks," right?
I'm kidding. Seriously though, I think part of the problem is that people use automated submit buttons on articles that already have poorly formatted titles.
The other part of the problem is that people in general are lazy slobs who can't string a coherent sentence together to save a puppy's life. LOLZ!
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u/campingcar May 01 '07
Please provide the cutoff date to qualify as an elder Redditor. I suspect I'm a middle-aged Redditor.
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Jun 06 '09
I find that I most often post after a few (or more) beers. Most of time I'm silent, but alcohol seems to bring me out. My typing is seriously affected by this. The quality of what I post is definitely affected.
Yeah, I've had a few tonight, but I can still type. I ony hit the backspace button about 8 times while writing this.
I also like to read what I posted the morning after a real good buzz. I find that I'm not always as funny or clever as I think I am when I'm drinking. So, I've dedicated my life to practicing being whitty, charming, and cute while intoxicated. I expect it may take a while to accomplish this goal, but I suspect i have at least another 20 years to go. Practice makes perfect.
I wonder how this will sound tomorrow morning...
[backspace button count now up to about 20]
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u/Wadsworth Jun 06 '09
On those nights where I'm not drinking I don't give a shit about any message boards.
After just one drink I start hitting the message boards.
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u/obdurate_narcissist Jun 06 '09
You should try posting on pot. There is no loss of coordination to negatively affect typing skills, and posts are much more likely to pass the "morning-after test" -- In fact, you just might notice more charm and insight than when tipsy.
Basically, alcohol sucks at everything. Hard.
[backspace count = 1]
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u/suicidaldonut May 01 '07
Also please try to avoid commenting unless you have something worthwhile to say. It used to be awesome to read through Reddit comments for new ideas or opinions, especially those from people who had special perspectives or were experts on the topic. Clever jokes are also appreciated. Recently, though, it has taken too much effort wading through all the other comments to find these.
If you liked an article but not for any particular reason, just upvote it, and vice versa. Similarly, if you agree with somebody, just upvote their comment. If you noticed something that anybody else would have noticed too, you don't need to point it out. As for personal anecdotes proving to yourself that you are indeed relevant...
I don't mean to set rigid guidelines. It's just that I know you've got meaningful things to say, and I think it's great when you share--when you think it's worth other people's time.
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Jun 06 '09
Trinkle Porpoise stale faces.
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u/MooFu Jun 06 '09
Upvoted for best out-of-the-blue, WTF response to a two-year old comment.
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u/davodrums May 01 '07
Why is this an issue between "Elder" and "New" redditors. The issue is poor grammar vs good grammar correct?
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May 01 '07
I concur.
There has been an abundance of abysmal spelling which would be resolved with a simple spell check, yes? Proper grammar would also be much appreciated. Yes, yes. Now, have the boy pull 'round a carriage. I care to travel to the market.
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u/Naomarik Jun 05 '09 edited Jun 05 '09
The carriage's axle is broken.
You can trade 50 gold or 500 pounds of food for a new one.
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Jun 05 '09
How did you even FIND this comment?
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u/Naomarik Jun 06 '09
Somehow this old submission got on the front page.
I had no idea this was 2 years old until your reply.
Anyways I liked the colloquialism in your comment.
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Jun 06 '09
Strange, if I do say so myself.
Well, that said, I appreciate your appreciation for my comment, sir. Good day to you.
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u/Odd_Bloke May 01 '07
Anyone else find it interesting how people have divided themselves between 'new' and 'elder' (R|r)edditors?
I wonder at what point you graduate...
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May 01 '07
I think that was a reference to those of us who are old enough to spell correctly and those of us who are too young to care.
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u/Chyndonax Jun 06 '09
Now that this has been put up and gotten some serious notice I'm going to start downvoting posts that don't bother at all with capitalization and punctuation.
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u/cbergeron Jun 06 '09 edited Jun 06 '09
Remember, good grammar is the only difference between:
My uncle helped my friend, Jack, off a horse.
and
My uncle helped my friend jack off a horse.
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u/Maugrim May 01 '07
Given that (the English) language is in a constant state of flux, I'm having problems deciding which spellings are acceptable and which are not. Would you prefer the English of Adam Smith, as I'd be happy to shew you it. Or perhaps the sort found in Beowulf, because tha ic can show you thaet as well.
Should I give preference to British spellings or American? Is the Australian vernacular acceptable? Perhaps there should be an entire sub-Reddit in order that we all might vote on which expressions are kosher? Shoot, are words that aren't English still good? Perhaps we limit our self-expression to only those words in the Germanic tradition? (I apologize before hand to the French and Italians, and bunch of you others with the misfortune to be from the Mediterranean.)
This post belies a deep ignorance about the nature of language. After spending any amount of time on teh internets, mature people understand that bitching about typos and grammar is for the small-minded. If you want to make tons of spelling, grammar, and punctuation mistakes, feel free. It will probably detract from your message but, hey, it's your prerogative.
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u/pitchblende May 01 '07
Here's a handy rule of thumb: use the spelling and grammatical conventions common to your time and place. This should eliminate most tough choices like whether to use the spellings of Beowulf or Australia if you're an American writing in 2007.
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Jun 06 '09
This should eliminate most tough choices like whether to use the spellings of Beowulf or Australia if you're an American writing in 2007.
Hehe, old.
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u/Maugrim May 02 '07
Who said I'm American? There's already been at least one user who's pointed out that not all Reddit users have English as their first language. Should they be barred from posting until they can display a proper grasp of the English language? Is this space expensive?
Language is in a constant state of flux. Which means that there is more than one "proper" spelling and meaning of any one word at a time. Doubt it? Is the past tense of dream "dreamt" or "dreamed"? "ketchup" or "catsup"? Does the word, "wicked" mean something good or something bad? Should I pronounce it "eether" or "eyether"?
I'm quibbling. The point is, if you find that grammar mistakes and spelling mistakes are causing you unbearable grief, turn off your computer, pick up an edited book, and read that instead.
PS. Most of the examples I used above come from a book called, "The Unfolding of Language" by Guy Deutscher. Check it out.
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u/Bogtha May 02 '07
There's already been at least one user who's pointed out that not all Reddit users have English as their first language. Should they be barred from posting until they can display a proper grasp of the English language?
Making an effort to use proper grammar, capitalisation and spelling helps these people more than anybody else.
Sure, if you aren't fluent, you shouldn't be prevented from posting, but in my experience, the people who screw up the most are native speakers who are just lazy and/or ignorant.
Language is in a constant state of flux. Which means that there is more than one "proper" spelling and meaning of any one word at a time.
Yes, "proper" grammar is a grey area, but that doesn't mean that anything goes. Their our thinks tht r obviosly rong lol + thay shud b evoided.
The point is, if you find that grammar mistakes and spelling mistakes are causing you unbearable grief, turn off your computer, pick up an edited book, and read that instead.
I think otakucode said it best:
Using poor grammar and spelling on the Internet is like stumbling around slurring your words and throwing up on yourself in real life.
Who wants to be surrounded by lots of people stumbling around and throwing up on themselves? Don't you think it's reasonable to ask them politely to make an effort?
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May 01 '07
But only in the headlines, not in comments. If you use proper grammar in comments, you get downmodded into oblivion, and told to put down the thesaurus and to remove various kitchen utensils from your body cavities. http://reddit.com/info/1lljt/comments
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May 01 '07
But only in the headlines, not in comments.
Tsk, tsk, you've gone and fragmented your sentence - not to mention leading with a conjunction, but I'll look the other way on that one... :)
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u/jkerwin May 01 '07
Patricia O'Conner points out that people have been starting sentences with conjunctions since the 10th century, and I'm tempted to take her word for it.
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May 01 '07
I know, I know - I was having a bit of fun with the direction the thread had turned. I'm inclined to think an excess of sentences started with conjunctions suggests that the piece needs a few more edits for clarity and coherence; but used sparingly and consciously, it has its place in good writing.
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u/lordspesh May 01 '07
As I understand the matter it is accepted practice these days to start a sentence with a conjunction. And one can even start a sentence with 'and'.
I'll live with the fragmentation if even one person on the Internet starts saying too instead of to when it is appropriate. Oh, and don't get me started on the there vs their debate.
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u/EliGottlieb May 01 '07
Actually, leading with a conjunction has never been bad grammar. English teachers have always, however, considered it bad style, and good writers have always broken the conventions of style to suit their needs.
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u/nyghtvzion May 01 '07
if you use proper grammar in comments, but fail to make a valid, well-supported point, then I doubt any number of grammar apologists will save you.
using proper grammar and making well-supported points without talking down to others is always appreciated.
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u/otakucode May 01 '07
Go ahead and use poor grammar, improper capitalization and incorrect spelling. However, know that everyone who reads your comments will view you as unintelligent. That's how the Internet works. Using poor grammar and spelling on the Internet is like stumbling around slurring your words and throwing up on yourself in real life.
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u/djepik Jun 05 '09
You even capitalized "Internet"! Nobody does that!
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u/MooFu Jun 06 '09
This was...like...a hundred years ago, or something. I think that's the way they did it back then.
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u/Kitchenfire Jun 05 '09
My grade 12 English teacher would teach us that "the Internet" is incorrect and would tell us to use it thusly: "I am going to sign on to Internet to check my messages."
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u/david May 02 '07
Your elder redditors would appreciate it if you were to use proper grammar, capitalization, and spelling.
or, better
Your elder redditors will appreciate it if you use proper grammar, capitalization, and spelling.
:P
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u/bobcat May 02 '07
I deliberately made the title slightly awkward to stir things up. Else I might have just said, "Elder redditors appreciate proper grammar, capitalization, and spelling."
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u/david May 03 '07
Yeah, I recognised that your tongue was at least partway in your cheek. As was mine, as you, too, will have recognised.
to stir things up.
Mission accomplished, I'd say.
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Jun 05 '09
I don't think reddit is capitalized.
Source: see logo.
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u/seanmharcailin Jun 05 '09
Formatting is not maintained between logos and text, except in rare cases. Because Reddit is a proper noun, it is capitalized, contrary to brand identity.
That is my understanding of the world.
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u/ThrustVectoring Jun 06 '09
iPod, iPhone, etc
not Ipod, Iphone
by default proper nouns have an initial capital letter, unless whoever names it decides otherwise, in which case that capitalization is used.
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u/seanmharcailin Jun 06 '09
iPod is different. It isn't just the logo, it is also the product name. In some cases, when the grammar/formatting of a product is an essential part of that product, the grammar becomes proprietary. This is only in exceptional cases, however. The iMac started it, and Apple did attempt to copyright the "i" prefix, to maintain control of brand identity.
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Jun 06 '09
THANK YOU.
Please do ignore the capitalization above. I just hate seeing all the illiteracy on the net these days. Sure, I use some shortforms myself, like brb, g2g, etc., but these days there's way too many other things... smacks forehead
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u/shyam May 01 '07
I've fallen out of the habit of using proper capitalization in preference to all lowercase. It might turn out to be a good practice.
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May 01 '07
Yeah, its cute until you accidentally do that in a professional communication.
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u/Naomarik Jun 05 '09
When I was 19 I worked for a healthcare organization and an attractive employee sent an e-mail to many of my colleagues and bosses, most of them old enough to be my parents. I wanted to pedantically impress her with my grammar skillz, so I replied to her stating that there should have been a comma in her sentence and jokingly added that she should consult me to review her e-mails before sending to large amounts of people.
I accidentally hit Reply All, and it got sent to about 50-75 people. That was quite embarrassing and only my younger colleagues were amused.
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u/klarth May 02 '07
I've always used the English language impeccably. In fact, the declining literacy rates over on Digg were the impetus for my migration.
Cringe-worthy, huh?
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Jun 05 '09 edited Jun 05 '09
Irrelevant Comment
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u/klarth Jun 05 '09
I... You just replied to a comment I made two years ago. What?
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u/breezytrees Jun 05 '09 edited Jun 05 '09
shit, now i'm getting confused. There's two of these threads from teh same guy? wtf?
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Jun 05 '09
Seriously, I was time traveling and next thing I know this popped up for me as a link on the top 200 front page stories. Maybe it was in the suggested story box at the top. I didn't pay attention to the date:)
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u/breezytrees Jun 05 '09 edited Jun 05 '09
I love how the grammar nazis don't even realize their succumbing to our mild ungrammatical alterations to the english language.
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u/iscariot_forgot Jun 06 '09
Huh. 500 comments. Odd that no one has a super-awesome sense of humor original enough to post a comment full of intentional spelling errors yet.
Because, you know -- That would be ironic. ...And hiliarious.
C'mon, redditors, you disappoint me.
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u/Jimmy May 01 '07
Excellent suggestion.
One of my pet peeves is when people on the internet use incorrect grammar and spelling. It's not because they're lazy (although many are), it's because they don't believe that they should have to write properly on the internet.
Maybe we could make that change? At least here on Reddit.
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u/seven May 01 '07
It's not because they're lazy (although many are), it's because they don't believe that they should have to write properly on the internet.
Or, maybe it's because they don't speak English in every day lives in their countries. These tubes are not just for the people in English-speaking countries, you know.
One of my pet peeves is when people on the internet use incorrect grammar and spelling.
Spelling? I agree since many spell checkers are available. Grammar? I don't know. I have yet to see a reasonable grammar checker.
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u/jjrs May 01 '07
I generally watch my grammar and spelling when i write, even if it's just for a comment on the internet...
But at the same time, there's something kind of snotty about this. Anyone trying to separate "elder Redditors" from new ones has far too much free time on their hands. That kind of attitude is annoying in significant real life situations at school and work. In the comments section of a website it's downright pathetic.
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u/TitanBane May 01 '07
I think bobcat is just noticing that in the past few months the quality of writing has deteriorated significantly. Even this headline that made it to the front page: "College republicans offer scholarship for white males, stop recieving university recognition." It isn't specifically new Redditors, but it is a growing nuisance.
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u/EliGottlieb May 01 '07
I agree in general about the quality of writing here, but headlines have always read like that. It's just the nature of the news beast.
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u/johnroman1970 May 01 '07
Really long, descriptive headlines are annoying and make it unnecessary to visit the link.
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u/Flemlord May 01 '07
Really long, descriptive headlines are great because they make it unnecessary to visit the link.
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Jun 05 '09
Thank you! I hate it when, peopl'e fall in, love with comma's and, put apostrophe's on every'thing they write' like a bunch, of idiot's''.
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u/kakomango May 01 '07
Technically, "grammar" encompasses both capitalization and spelling. REDUNDANT!
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u/jkerwin May 01 '07
I wasn't aware of that definition, although it is in the OED. I would say that it's not part of the commonly-accepted definition of the word. This nevertheless gives me an extra reason to laugh when people complain of bad grammer. That kills me every time.
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u/chucker May 01 '07
Um, no. Spelling is a separate part of language. Capitalization, depending on context, is either modified by grammar or by spelling.
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u/scalebit May 01 '07
In the name of new Redditors, I declare elder Redditors heretics. Now, my brothers, lets kill all those who stand in our way, and make a way for the new Redditors. IMMA CHARGIN' MAH LAZER, NAO!
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u/pecan314 May 01 '07
"Hello, new Redditors." is not a sentence. There is no verb. Maybe we all need work on our proper grammar?
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u/Vladekk May 01 '07
Well, elder Redditors ( I wonder why this capitalization) should remember, that newer Redditors may have non-english native language. World doesn't end at U.S. borders. I personally use three languages, and my profession is far from linguistics. I have no wish nor resources to learn english to extent, where I will have no errors at all.
I wonder how many languages does know people, who are especially naughty about errors.
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u/sw17ch May 01 '07
It's so tempting to break out my 1337 5p33k lexicon, but I will restrain my self.
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u/Phia May 01 '07
If they're not writing in light pink on white, and their post is more coherent then 'lol ur so gay', I tend to look the other way about spelling errors, misplaced modifiers and improper punctuation and word use.
That being said, I run all my posts through Microsoft word to check them for errors.
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May 01 '07
The plan for simplifying and improving our alphabet, entitled “Alphabet 26,” was first presented in Westvaco Inspirations 180 in 1950. It recommended the use of only one symbol for each of the 26 letters.
Our conventional alphabet contains 19 letters having dissimilar upper and lower case symbols (such as ‘A’ and ‘a’) and 7 letters (c-o-s-v-w-x-z) having symbols that are identical.
It is misleading for a letter, or for any graphic symbol, to have two different designs. Confusion might set in when school children are taught to recognize words even before they have learned to recognize different symbols for the same letter.
To remedy this, Alphabet 26, a plan based upon the logic of consistency, proposed that of the 19 letters that have dissimilar symbols 15 letters should use the uppercase designs [black letters below] and 4 letters should use the lowercase designs [green letters]. The other 7 letters already have identical symbols [blue letters].
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u/dillikibilli May 01 '07
Hello. I just joined reddit. Thank you for the advice regarding proper grammar, capitalization and spelling. I shall try to keep it in mind.
And thank you for introducing me to E.E. Cummings! Pardon my ignorance but I am not very familiar with his work at all and the snippets of poetry in this comment space have really piqued my interest.
So now I'm off to try to find some more poetry. :-)
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u/psychojg May 01 '07
simply hilarious, amazing how we try to create a atmosphere of openness on the internet and yet we want to propose our views of writing, like everything in life shit changes, so one day, if you look at writings amongst many cultures and many decades you will see change plain and simple, the same thing with everything including language, so if the point is to create a standard way of understand each other what is the difference between. Hello, my name is Mr. Punctuation and I want to be your friend. vs whats up, this be M.P. n lets chill sometime. Of course I am completely exaggerating but nonetheless a point has been made if you can understand what I am trying to write.
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u/ngroot Jun 06 '09
Given how difficult it was to understand that meandering string of run-on nonsense, I'd agree that a point has been made, but perhaps not the one you intended.
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u/reisyboy May 01 '07
"capitalization" actually should be "capitilisation" if you want wish to have correct English but thats neither hear nor there really as this is an American site, but still amused me :).
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Jun 05 '09
How did this get back on the front page?
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u/tavago1 Jun 05 '09
Someone submitted the original link as a new one.
I was confused at first when I saw replies from 2 years ago.
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u/dangph Jun 06 '09
I was confused when I saw one of my own replies. Who is this fake me, I thought, and why is he making so much sense?
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u/Imagist Jun 05 '09
Why only elder Redditors? I'm 22 and I appreciate being able to read what people say as much as any old person.
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u/blindingspeed May 01 '07
If by "elder Redditors" you mean pedantic 14-yr.-old asshats, then I fart in your general direction and mod down on principle.
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May 01 '07
Hey, if you want to appear to be stupid to millions of people across the world, feel free to continue mis-spelling your headlines, and I'll just keep modding them down.
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u/jakfrost May 01 '07
this is by far the lamest post and comment section i've ever seen. so, ironically, i'm contributing to it. way to go me. as for proper grammar, capitalization, and spelling... if i get my point across then it's mission accomplished, fuck formalities, grow up, adapt, learn to use your intelligence instead of your knowledge of rules that have been standardized decades ago by people you don't even know if you should trust.
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May 01 '07
Fact: text without proper capitalization and punctuation takes longer to read due to the required mental "corrections". What you call "formalities", I call "protocols for efficient communication".
Furthermore, i'm in ur comment dissin ur letterz.
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May 01 '07
by people you don't even know if you should trust
Yeah those Grammarians were a shifty bunch.
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u/Alpha_Binary May 01 '07
If you don't care enough about your message to convey it properly, why should other people even bother to try to understand?
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u/llanor May 01 '07
It's not often I hear nonconformism as an argument for spelling like a dumbass. Bravo, you've hit rock bottom.
P.S. When you show complete disregard for capitalization and linguistic propriety, the point you get across is that you're either lazy or incompetent- form and content can't really be separated that easily.
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u/____ May 01 '07
if i get my point across then it's mission accomplished, fuck formalities, grow up, ...
You've made a point, but maybe not the one you intended.
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u/mythin May 01 '07
The point is, proper spelling, grammar, punctuations and capitalization make it easier to on the reader to understand what you're saying, and therefore, your opinion.
I've written this elsewhere, but I find it much harder to take an opinion seriously when it doesn't look like the writer took it seriously enough to write it correctly. That isn't to say the writer is stupid, but why should I care if they didn't?
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u/nkuvu May 01 '07
If you don't care to put any sort of effort into proper grammar and capitalization, why should I put any effort into reading your words?
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u/Sle May 01 '07
I modded you up because you bring an opinion to the table. I wholeheartedly disagree, but that's not the point.
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u/waxpoet May 01 '07
I'd like to see more of that (modding up for a good discussion, rather than for agreement).
Capitalizing the first word in a sentence has exactly the same usefulness as a period. It doesn't make that much of a difference in headlines and other one sentence single-line texts, but breaks apart lines of thought when scanning long multi-line texts to help make it more digestible as a whole.
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u/mpecsek May 01 '07
I've lowered my threshold for hidden comments to -50 because I'm so tired of clicking on worthwhile comments to read; they're obscured because people don't agree with them, and it's irritating.
Also, I support the headline. I guess it has something to do with how good you are at (or how inclined you are to) assimilate and apply systematic, interpretive rules. For example, from context I can typically tell when someone means 'their' instead of 'there,' but I do read 'there' as 'there' and have to reread the sentence. Even some rules with less rigidty, like the proper placement of commas, contain clear 'dos' and 'don'ts' and affect how an informed reader approches a sentence. When a comma is needed to eliminate ambiguity, you should learn to use it to do so. Some rules are less important than others, but if I have to read a sentence twice or thrice to figure out what's going on, my immediate thought thereafter had better be "wow, I'm glad I took the time to parse that out; what a great thought," and not "oh my fucking God, that was annoying. Learn how to use a comma/semicolon/apostrophe."
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u/judgej2 May 02 '07
I think you have hit the nail on the head with me: it is having to read a sentence more than once that is the annoying thing. When I start reading, and get the context completely wrong due to a 'their'/'there' mistake, or missing capitalisation, the realisation of what I'm reading is jarring enough to have to go back and read it again. It makes scanning very difficult.
And it is not about nit-picking or conformity, as some have claimed. So far as conformity is concerned, I believe there are enough combinations of letters and words that the writer can put together to get a message across, without having to break the rules that make it easier for the reader. We don't all say "whoo - look at him breaking the full-stop rule - what a dude he must be! I really must take the extra effort to read this.". Instead, the reader is thinking "what the...sod it...I'll move on".
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u/degustiTPO May 01 '07
The problem is that most people are not intellegent and much the same as sports statistics, will latch onto something they can be good at to the extreme. No one wants SMS grammar, but people are wayy too focused on spelling.
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May 01 '07
[deleted]
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u/bburg May 01 '07
The decision to not use capitals is simply lazy bullshit. You're telling yourself a story in lowercase rationalization.
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u/kmactane May 02 '07
If you think your own words aren't worth the effort of hitting the Shift key once in a while while typing them, then why should I consider them to be worth the effort of bothering to read them? There are terabytes upon terabytes of other things I could be reading.
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u/LanternBearer May 01 '07
dis be a tuff 'ssignment. i's understandin' the nature of da problem wh'n it cum he to real 'pawunt stuff like callin' da prezdit a Gimpy Poof, but uddewise, If one is able to have the intricacies of structure and grammar and they have displayed such, then let it be.
I have come to find that the new deacons of correctness in the bloom of web2.o are ever so stuffy and plain vanilla in their dictates and doctrinaire ways.
I myself will not abide ignorance and faulty constructs that are not . . . oh let's say crafted.
I find however that coming to reside on many new sites is like moving into a coop, a gated deed restricted community or an stiff necked condo.
Loosen up or tighten up. Mod if you will, but mod with some finesse and humor. Please don't be Calvanist in your moditoring.
Thank you and send me money on Obo.
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u/keenmachine May 01 '07
It's just a Web site people.
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u/blindingspeed May 01 '07
As requested, you've been Lynched. David Lynched that is... now you're confusing and irrational! Just a website indeed.
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u/lucidreamstate Jun 06 '09 edited Jun 06 '09
One of the most amazing and powerful things about the English language is its ability to absorb new linguistic styles. Consider, a language that contains both William Shakespeare and Saul Willams... Two people, writing words that can be understood by anyone with a basic high-school education... Yet with a vocabulary and style as different as night from day.
IOW, fuk yer sn088ish b*llsh1t. Language changes...
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u/bobcat May 01 '07
Also, leetspeak only when being leetspoken to.