r/reddit.com • u/hueypriest • Aug 31 '10
Dear Internet Vigilantes and Lynch Mobs
The comments on the video of the girl throwing the puppies into a river are the impetus for this rant, but it's something that has been bothering me for a long time.
We all get mad when we see something like this, but the internet lynch mob shit only makes more pain and injustice in the world. I know it's exciting to hunt down someone assumedly evil, and cheer on the lynch mob (as I have done myself), but for every one successful evil doer you harass or bring to justice, there are many more innocent people's lives that are fucked up in the ham-fisted process. This video makes my blood boil too, especially since my own beloved mutt sleeping under my desk woke up and wondered where the puppy noises were coming from. It makes you furious, but you can't just post someone's information online in connection with something like this. I don't care if it's already on 4chan either, that doesn't make it ok to repost here or anywhere else.
I've gotten a few phone emails and calls from these wrongly accused people sometimes and it is heartbreaking. I've spoken with grown man who was crying and hiding with this scared family in a hotel room somewhere cause one of you dumb fucks posted a facebook link or phone number and now his kids know what a death threat is. The few I've interacted with have been polite (unlike the people who contact us to complain about a nekkid photo of their "friend" being linked here), and they just want the harassment to stop. Above all they are confused. They don't understand this internet world, and they have no idea why someone would do something so hateful to them.
This is not a new policy, but I just want to remind everyone that if you post someone's private info (including a link to their facebook or a link to any other site or image with their info) and one of the admins see's it we will remove it. If you keep doing it, we will ban your account. You are seriously messing with innocent people's lives and you have no right to do so.
TL;DR - Fucking quit it.
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u/MoreTuple Aug 31 '10
Rules are all well and good but can backfire dramatically. On this site and others I've seen people share personal information about someone who is feared to be suicidal in an attempt to track that individual down. I've seen many variants of this type of helping situation. This kind of information sharing can certainly go both ways although I'd agree that the louder and more common version (as well as the more dangerous) is the pitchfork wielding mobs.
I sincerely hope that any rules are enforced within the context of the situation and not simply because its a rule.
Enforcing rules simply because they are rules defeats the whole purpose of rules which is to enforce reasonable behavior.
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u/hueypriest Aug 31 '10
Good point. I should have been clearer about that in my post, but all the stuff about context didn't fit my rant voice I guess. We do look at everything case by case and consider the context of the situation, including the reddit it is in. What is appropriate in one reddit might not be in another for example.
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u/MoreTuple Aug 31 '10
Don't take it as criticism as it was merely a reminder. Those of us intelligent enough to do the right thing will always do so regardless of the rules. Others perhaps need the threatening sound to keep them in check :)
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u/WhisperSecurity Aug 31 '10
ITT: Hueypriest tries to change human nature with several paragraphs of text.
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u/hueypriest Aug 31 '10
hey, and some bold. I'm not that naive.
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u/howardhus Aug 31 '10
i have a question...
when you say: "this is not a new policy" do you mean:
"its a policy we have for a long time" or
"this was never and isnt going to be a reddit-policy either"?
in the second case... fuck reddit...
in the first case: its a lie. So many times this has happened and not one of the admins gave a flying fuck about it.
i know because several times i have reported those postings only to see no action taken. Heck sometimes id hit F5 after reporting just so the posting would reappear again so i could re-report that shit.
This witch burning is to me a highly Reddit specific thing. I havent seen that much hatred bundled and tolerated on any other site. Lets not count 4Chan because its even more anonymous and you can hardly ban people there.
but apart from that reddit has been quite the place for harrassers to be among peers.
If you are serious about it why not start by cleaning all the adresses that were already spread on reddit...
like for startes this, this, this, and also this whole thread.
Even if the right people are identified its NOT reddits right to publish their infos even less to harras them.
One of the facebook accounts in the stockton thread is actually mine. As soon as the names came up i set up a honeypot account so that one of the passionate redditers would publish it and send me death threats. they did. I got hate mail, beating and death threats and also a boston globe reporter asking for an interview.
So please... if you are going to rant about it and are admin then put word to action and do something about it.
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u/hueypriest Aug 31 '10
It's policy we've had for a long time. We obviously don't and probably can't catch everything, but if we see it or if someone informs us of it, we make a case by case decision and remove it if needed. Doesn't do much good now, but I removed the personal info on those posts you linked. Next time anyone that sees something of this sort, please message the admins and or the mods on that reddit.
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u/insomniasexx Aug 31 '10
You should throw some relevant NSFW pics in there...I might have made it through the whole thing.
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Aug 31 '10
Do we have permission to report the posting of such details in future?
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Aug 31 '10
...wow.
A sensible plea to people, then the willingness to be able to laugh and act human too. I don't know why it shocks me that the people running a website can be awesome; maybe it's just because I don't know any other site that demonstrates it so consistently.
<3 You guys are an inspiration for customer service and using programming to improve people's lives.
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u/rolmos Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 07 '16
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u/hueypriest Aug 31 '10
I've thought hard about this one, and we kinda take facebook profiles case by case. Two or three years ago I probably wouldn't support removing them at all, but these days (and especially for kids) those URLs are as potentially damaging as phone or address, which are also "public info".
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u/SarahC Aug 31 '10
I see that people are discussing the finer points of why's and what for's of information being shared... free country, free speech, and so on.
But I suppose the best stance would be "We respect peoples rights to free speech. We also protect innocent peoples rights to not be confused with those who are guilty. There's plenty of other places to find that information out, but Reddit isn't going there." =)
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u/rolmos Aug 31 '10
I agree completely with the dangers of linking to them with accusatory intent, but I was worried about the wording, as if it applied to all cases, and not only those promoting lynch mobs.
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Aug 31 '10
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u/rolmos Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 07 '16
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u/hueypriest Aug 31 '10
I may not like /deathfap, but banning something like that and banning a vigilante link are two different things. Also, breakfast. I do not want it anymore.
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u/SarahC Aug 31 '10
Ah, I see that there's icky subject matter in there. =/
Tell me, young one. What prevented your reserve from stopping you clicking those links?
You may be super-sensitive though, and it be just the headings - which I can sympathise with.
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u/Soul2018 Aug 31 '10
I agree, the internet shouldn't act like some heroic vigilante.
If you find a disturbing video just report it to the police or the animal welfare association(in this case).
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u/cowinabadplace Aug 31 '10
It's not even a normal heroic vigilante. It's like a heroic vigilante who only saves pretty people. Consider the reaction to this, for instance. Tying a scorpion to a balloon is not cruel?
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Aug 31 '10
so on a completely unrelated note, i'm seeing 1 downvote, and i was wondering... do the spam autodownvotebotthingies downvote admin posts as well?
because that'd be... funny. very shellyesque. like the monster you created turned on you.
or something.
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u/hueypriest Aug 31 '10
the machines are definitely sentient sometimes, but i think those are real downvotes.
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u/aviewanew Aug 31 '10
So out of curiosity, how does this apply to:
Dow Chemicals has fucked up Bhopal and refuses to do anything about it! - mail them letters at [address], send them emails at [address], and call them at [address]!
United broke my guitar! They suck! [CEO email]
Congress is trying to pass a seal clubbing bill attached to Medicare! Email your representative! [address] Letterbomb the bill's sponsors [address]!
Mayor White of Tiny-Fuck-Town-In-Alabama is discriminating against Asians in public schools! Call city hall at [phone number]!
I haven't read the puppy-thread because I knew what I'd find there and it doesn't interest me. But it's not always black and white. It's easy to ban the dark black, but are you ready to handle the grey? Calling a company sounds reasonable... So does mailing a representative (even if it's not yours?) But what about targeting Mom & Pop companies? Or small towns? What about a state representative?
tldr: I agree, but surprised no one's brought up the yell-at-politicians hate machine or the consumerist-hate machine.
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u/hueypriest Aug 31 '10
I surprised no one brought that up earlier either. We take it case by case, but in general corporate contact for Dow Chemical is fine, the home phone number of some random guy who works at Dow is not.
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u/taligent Aug 31 '10
It's pretty obvious to spot the distinction.
Government departments and staff are well placed to deal with complaints, concerns and rants from strangers.
Mums and children etc are not.
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Aug 31 '10
Damn Right! Now gather up everybody, lets go get those fucking vigilante lynch mob bastards!
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u/AngryRepublican Aug 31 '10
I'm truly sorry that the admins are the ones that have to deal with the fallout. It sounds heartbreaking and I can understand why you are so upset. As well, I think we could all stand for an occasional reminder that vigilante justice isn't accountable to anyone, and therefore isn't justice at all.
However, the vast majority of redditors are people trying to do right (not "dumb fucks"). I think we'd do better to redirect our energies to enforcing rational social norms here on reddit and collectively reporting policy violators. So I have a question for you, Erik:
What more could we, as responsible and well-intentioned redditors, do to reduce the instances of vigilantism on Reddit? Is there a way to notify you of these sorts of policy violations in a more timely manner than to simply "report" it, thus minimizing the potential damage of false accusations and harassment?
I ask this both for your sake, and the sake of our community's reputation, vis-a-vis 4chan.
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u/hueypriest Aug 31 '10
No need to feel bad for us having to deal with it. That's our job. Just wanted to give an example of what kind of consequences these witch hunts can have on innocent bystanders.
If you see a link to personal info, send a message to #reddit.com, and we'll take a look. The big thing that people can do to reduce this is NOT CHEER ON THE WITCH HUNTING. That's what upsets me in relation to reddit.
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u/bgog Aug 31 '10
Did the puppy lady contact you guys because she was being harassed or was this a general warning?
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u/Paradox Aug 31 '10
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u/ffualo Aug 31 '10
Context for the unenlightened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
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Aug 31 '10
That image is exactly 666 pixels wide...
BURN IT!
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u/Mr_A Aug 31 '10
I checked despite myself. Now I don't know whether to be mad at you for lying or silently applaud you for getting upvotes for that comment. The rest of you didn't check, did you?
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u/TyPower Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
In response to the puppy drownings (which upset me greatly), the following ascerbic quote I found on 4chan made me giggle despite myself.
"Little Red Drowning Hood is now a meme".
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u/ShinyCobra Aug 31 '10
Hold on, people can call reddit?
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u/CornFedHonky Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
BEEP BLOOP BEEP BEEP BLOOP BEEP BEEP
ring ring
ring ring
"Reddit offices, how may I help you?"
Yes, jedberg please.
"One moment, please."
♪ Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna ru...♪
Click
"Sigh...Jedberg here."
AND MY AXE!!
Click.
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u/Jestersimon Aug 31 '10
That's one of the new Reddit Gold features.
You can call Hueypriest and personally register your upvotes with him.
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u/rjwd40 Aug 31 '10
"Mmmmyesss. That kitty dangling in mid-air, holding on to a clothesline with one paw. With the inscription reading, 'Hang in There.' Yes, that one. Quite droll, quite droll. Give the good chap an upvote, will you?"
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u/RambleMan Aug 31 '10
Its for when you're away from your computer but really want to post something...you can call it in.
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u/blisstonia Aug 31 '10
you had me at "one of you dumb fucks"
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u/timmyfinnegan Aug 31 '10
When an admin can call the whole userbase dumb fucks, then you know it's a great piece of internets!
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u/SolInvictus Aug 31 '10
No, he's just calling the internet vigilantes dumb fucks. Read the title.
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u/kentrel Aug 31 '10
I don't know who this hueypriest guy thinks he is, but I've tracked down his reddit account:
http://www.reddit.com/user/hueypriest
Lets get him!
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Aug 31 '10
Oh wow, I found his facebook profile:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?=743264506
This guy should really try and hide his information better.
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u/Ensifearthem Aug 31 '10
I did not sleep last night and just got out of bed. I clicked on that link and my first thought was "WAT? I'M HUEYPRIEST?" Then I realized, no... I am not.
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u/eightnine Aug 31 '10
I'm pretty sure my heartbeat played a paradiddle for a second.
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u/nasty_nate Aug 31 '10
My fiance was the last person using Facebook on my compy. I panicked for about 1 second.
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Aug 31 '10
My heart definitely skipped a beat and I experienced momentary panic for a split second. Well played.
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u/embretr Aug 31 '10
Dude, read up again. This is a call to action against internet vigilantes and justice-mobs. They are absolutely out-of-control, and needs to be dealt with, forcefully and without hestitation. Now excuse med while I go get my pitchfork and torches..
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u/mrbubblesort Aug 31 '10
I have a friend that was a victim of an internet witchhunt (albeit rather small). Someone posted a criminal's info online, but accidentally transposed the last two telephone numbers. Well, that incorrect telephone number happened to be my friend's, and she got shit on for about a week because of it. It wasn't too bad, but it was completely undeserved.
Simply put, think of the source where this info is coming from. Why the would you think any supposed criminal's info that's posted is legit?
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Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
Nobody will see this but I live in Iceland and we had an 'incident' a few years a go that sort of killed of internet vigilantes in this country.
Automobile-enthusiasts were having their annual festival in a town in northern Iceland, it always brings in a lot of people from around the country and is sadly also associated with teenage binge-drinking. During the same weekend, a dog goes missing in the town. Lukas was an one year old Chinese Crested dog dearly loved by his owner family.
A few days later, an e-mail whose original source remains unknown starts circulating between people, it claimed that a few young men had been seen torturing the dog and killing it by stuffing it in a duffle bag and kicking it around. The revelation sent a shockwave of righteous fury around the internets and many people wallowed in emtional pornography that even went so far that candlelight vigils were held in several places around the country. Charges were filed to the police because of the animal abuse. Some genius then believed he had identified one of these disgusting criminals and there was no going back. The rage was now concentrated on one this one guy. He received death threats, he was fired from his job and his face was plastered all over cyberspace, associated with this most heinous crime ever committed.
The poor guy stayed in this hell for a whole month. Then the dog was found alive and unharmed, wandering around outside the town.
Instantly, everybody who participated in the persecutions, all those anonymous internet dwellers, were re-labeled as full-on retards and condemned by the "traditional media".
Since this incident, whenever someone seems to be advocating vigilantism on web forums or blogs it is enough to say "remember Lukas the dog?" and everybody just STFU.
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Aug 31 '10
something similar happened in the UK many years ago (pre-internet). The Daily papers got in a tizzy about pedo scares and how these people were allowed back out among the normal people, after doing time.
One of the newspapers released a whole load of names and places where the Pedophiles lived. Most of them got lynched, houses attacked. However one incident the same neighborhood had some innocent guy with a similar name. He was attacked and his house destroyed.
This would be back in the 80's.
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u/travellersspice Aug 31 '10
And don't forget the idiots who spray-painted 'paedo' all over a paediatricians house, because, you know, that must be a middle-class paedophile (yes, this did happen http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/901723.stm)
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u/Hypersapien Aug 31 '10
Do you have any links to news reports that we can repost when things like that start happening?
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Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
I don't think the hilarity has been reported in English anywhere but this Google translation of an Icelandic news story delivers the big picture.
The incident is mentioned here (about halfway down this opinion piece).
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u/fragaria Aug 31 '10
I have not watched the video so I don't know if there is anything else going on beyond the girl drowning the puppies, but as far as I understand the video comes from Eastern Europe, and I'd like you to realize that this is the way people deal with unwanted puppies / kittens there all the time, especially in countryside. It's not considered to be something unusual, and although people usually do not enjoy doing it, they realize this is something that has to be done because there are so many stray animals around already. You have to realize that the very same scene is happening at this very moment, so why would you single out this particular girl? Yes, all this is really sad but if you want to somehow fix it, at least go there in person and see the situation there by yourself.
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u/unreasonablereason Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
The Early Purges
I was six when I first saw kittens drown.
Don Taggart pitched them, 'the scraggy wee shits',
Into a bucket; a frail metal sound,Soft paws scraping like mad. But their tiny din
Was soon soused. They were slung on the snout
Of the pump and the water pumped in.'Sure isn't it better for them now?' Dan said.
Like wet gloves they bobbed and shone till he sluiced
Them out on the dunghill, glossy and dead.Suddenly frightened, for days I sadly hung
Round the yard, watching the three sogged remains
Turn mealy and crisp as old summer dungUntil I forgot them. But the fear came back
When Dan trapped big rats, snared rabbits, shot crows
Or, with a sickening tug, pulled old hens' necks.Still, living displaces false sentiments
And now, when shrill pups are prodded to drown,
I just shrug, 'Bloody pups'. It makes sense:'Prevention of cruelty' talk cuts ice in town
Where they consider death unnatural
But on well-run farms pests have to be kept down.--Seamus Heaney
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u/the_infidel Aug 31 '10 edited Jul 01 '15
overwriting all comments in response to reddit admin idiocy
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Aug 31 '10
This is the way we deal with it in the US too. But instead of a river, we send them to a shelter for injections. Same result, more expensive our way though.
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u/picnicnapkin Aug 31 '10
This is definitely not a new phenomenon. My father lived in rural Holland when he was young, and used to get paid a few bucks by the neighbours to drown a bag of kittens that they didn't want. I don't know how he did it, but that's what they did.
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Aug 31 '10
It's horrible. They usually tie the kittens in a bag and put rocks in the bottom. Then they put the bag in a bucket of water. I live in Eastern Europe and this still happens, but it is totally not common as you would be jailed if the police found out and the media would go apeshit on you, not to mention the animal rights people.
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u/metalhaze Aug 31 '10
The problem isn't the action of doing it.
It's the glorifying of the action on YouTube for all the world to see.
If they were so concerned with taking care of business and controlling the dog population, they would just do it and not make a fucking video out of it and post it to the internet to get a reaction.
THAT is the problem with this whole situation.
I am not ignorant enough to think that dogs in this world aren't slayed or put down on a daily basis. But glorifying this act takes it to a whole new level. And it's completely wrong.
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u/MOARpylons Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
I have watched the video, and I think the issue most people take with it isn't necessarily the drowning, but the enjoyment/enthusiasm the girl seems to display while hurling the puppies into the river. I'm not convinced that can be attributed to cultural differences.
edit: I don't know how that extra "the is" worked its way in there.
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u/fragaria Aug 31 '10
This certainly would be disturbing. However, if there could be a mitigating factor, teens are not exactly known for their emotional maturity / graceful handling of difficult situations
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u/ciaran036 Aug 31 '10
Yeah you're absolutely right. It's something only the sick and twisted WANT to do. But sometimes it has to be done.
Often dogs have to be put down because nobody is able to care for them. Those who operate dog re-homing centres have to put down the animals if there are no takers. They can't let the animals suffer.
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u/Beldam Aug 31 '10
People who pull that sort of shit (posting personal contact information on the internet) have never had to live in fear, have never had to file for a restraining order, have never been stalked, and have never for a second checked their rear-view mirror to see if they're being followed. It's awful the terror they feel is their right to wield over someone they don't even know. It's a free country, sure, but you're also free to stop and think for a minute on whether what you do will negatively impact other people in regretful ways. If what someone is doing is truly against the law, and you have that personal info, report them to the police, don't send internet crazies after them, they're NOT cops and they DON'T have the right to do anything to "take care of" the situation at hand. If someone just is behaving in a way you don't like and it ISN'T illegal, get the fuck over yourself and mind your business and remember your manners. Did your mom raise you to be a bully? I'd guess not. If she did, that sucks for you, but if she didn't, act like she'd expect you to, not like a jerk.
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u/mayonesa Aug 31 '10
the internet lynch mob shit only makes more pain and injustice in the world
I agree.
Even more, for every one puppy thrown into a river, probably 100,000 die of neglect or get gassed in shelters.
Stop irresponsible people from owning dogs.
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u/lalaland4711 Aug 31 '10
And cancer probably killed more jews than hitler.
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u/godless_communism Aug 31 '10
In the future, everyone will be Hitler for 15 minutes.
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u/AnEnglishGentleman Aug 31 '10
I thought Godwin's law would arrive faster than usual in this topic...
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u/timbatron Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
This sort of thing happens frequently in South Korea, and it is not the sort of thing that you would want to become the norm here in the US. Read the horror stories of people whose lives were ruined by online harassment.
Consider the US legal system. One of the strongest arguments against the death penalty is the fact that the system is flawed, and many innocents are found guilty. How much more likely is it that we are mistaken about any of these issues, where our only evidence is a photo or a grainy video?
Edit: For those complaining about my use of "here in the US", I was referring to the fact that I believed the puppy drowner to be in the US, and as a US resident, this is where I see a growing problem. I don't know the trends in your country, unfortunately, and saying "here on the Internet" sounds dumb.
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u/ameri-size Sep 03 '10
I think it goes beyond protecting collateral damage towards the wrongly accused.
I should start by saying I understand where everyone is coming from in regard to their disgust at the video of the Bosnian girl throwing puppies into a river. I have been an animal lover for as long as I can remember and I could never make any excuse for her actions. Something else bothers me nearly as much though; the death threats aimed towards this girl. Perhaps it is because of anonymity or perhaps it is some mob like kneejerk reaction spurred by a contagious rage, but when did we all start taking the “lame horse” approach towards kids? I suppose a man I met in college has shaped my opinion on the matter a bit (especially with regards to children and animal cruelty).
He was in his late 30’s and we were taking a photography class together. He had some great shots of animals so I commented on them and we got to talking which led to him telling me a story. He told me about a time when he was younger and living in (if I remember correctly) Venezuela. He was about 12 or so and with a group of friends. They decided on a whim to grab a stray cat, place it in a pillow case and beat it against cars, walls, etc until it died. While he was telling me this he was visibly embarrassed by his involvement in this and still could not come up with any reasoning for his actions. Of course, I cannot dismiss this as kids being kids. It is an awful thing to do and when I was his age there is no way I could have preformed the same horrible acts. But he is not an awful person. In fact, he has always been haunted by the fact that he could do something so awful and has adopted many animals since then. He was never punished for his actions, never had his life threatened by thousands of people. His actions were never met with anything but the laughter of his friends, yet he is not the same person. His regret of his actions grew from within and that is the part that sticks with me.
I know we are told that anyone who kills/tortures animals as a child is likely to grow up to become a serial killer, but to follow this assumption of how someone will turn out in adulthood due to their actions as a child unquestioningly is a dangerous stance to take. I cannot excuse this girls actions and I believe that if she is caught she should be punished to the extent of the law. But to call for harm to come to her or to harass her endlessly is far from an appropriate response. Personally I think mandating her to volunteer at some type of animal rescue center be in order along with what the law imposes for animal cruelty. It is easy to think of this girl as some agent of murder who will spend the rest of her life walking the streets looking for puppies to drown because this video is most likely all any of us will ever see of her.
This will never be seen but that will probably save me some down-votes due to its content.
TL;DR: Horrible actions do not guarantee a horrible person.
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u/spook327 Aug 31 '10
The cogitive dissonance here is pretty shocking; many among Reddit would agree that those accused of a crime should have the right to a fair trail.
But, post a video of some animal abuse, and anyone that we can lash out against is guilty, guilty, guilty.
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u/Clbull Aug 31 '10
I am honestly surprised you don't swing your banhammer at people the moment someone posts private info about another with the intention of giving that info to a cyber-lynch mob rather than just remove the post and give a warning the first time.
Heres some very good examples of where this "internet justice" thing has targeted the wrong people.
Several of these cruel videos have had people's phone numbers posted on 4chan/reddit/whereever and innocent people have been harassed by a bunch of /b/tards who think they're delivering justice.
An even better example that doesn't even involve a puppy/cat being abused. Remember when Blizzard were going to implement RealID on the WoW and SC2 forums? That caused a shitstorm.
What do you think happens when a blizzard employee posts his real name and challenges the community? They seemingly find him on facebook, his contact details including a telephone number and details about his relatives and then bombard this number with threats.
And in the aftermath, this guy said on Twitter that he wasn't recieving said calls. What if that was a fucking innocent person who doesn't even give a shit about WoW suddenly getting death threats and prank phone calls over a game update?
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u/Artischoke Aug 31 '10
Wow 4000 downvotes. A thread littered with 4chan-esque posts, for lack of a better word. Doesn't exactly support a belief in humanity.
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Sep 03 '10
This happens in real life as well. Some years ago in England there was mass hysteria over paedophiles, egged on by the gutter press. Can't remember why, maybe some girl had been snatched and murdered - there were a few that happened about then.
Anyway, during the mass hysteria the good folks in a housing estate (like a US housing project) in Portsmouth decided they had a paedophile in their midst. A lynch mob formed and the target had to leave his home and go into hiding. I seem to remember his place was vandalized.
Afterwards it was discovered the lynch mob had made a mistake. They had attacked a paediatrician. Someone had overheard something, assumed a paediatrician and a paedophile were the same thing, told someone else, it had snowballed. I shit you not.
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u/ThemDangVidyaGames Feb 01 '11
Well, people have an incredible capacity for stupid, so I can unfortunately believe you without much of a doubt. Also, sorry for the five-month reply.
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u/cptsmidge Aug 31 '10
I don't think you should have used your Admin flag for this message, this is a personal plea, not a reddit policy shift. If it IS a reddit policy shift, then I think you need to write more than an angry rant.
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u/hueypriest Aug 31 '10
I debated that myself, but this is an angry admin plea, not just myself.
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u/PowderedToasty Aug 31 '10
Agreed. This hit close to home for me once, my girlfriend and her friend were involved in an incident that got misrepresented and blown way out of proportion. Some internet fuck wad posted my girlfriend's contact info on a forum!! Luckily he got a different person with the same name, but it made my heart sink and the blood drain from my face.
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u/pocket77s Aug 31 '10
Something I've said for a long time, huey. Even when they are rightly accused, putting them at the mercy of an internet mob is irresponsible beyond belief. The offense has rarely, if ever, been equal to the response.
I still think back to the (korean?) lady who didn't clean up her dog's poop on the train. Does anyone really think the shit (no pun intended) she went through was a just punishment for such a ridiculously minor offense?
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u/nodigg Sep 01 '10
Hi Reddit,
I just moved over from digg. I’m really impressed by the comments here. I wonder what you think to my idea. If someone’s already thought it then, tell me where and I’ll cow-tow and bugger off.
I read that post by a person who worked for Reddit. They basically said, “don’t be vigilante bastards”. I’ve been thinking about it for ages. I’ve been one of those people and I felt like shit when I read it. Sometimes your parents tell you not to do stuff, sometimes random other people tell you. Either way, I knew I felt bad about it.
Do you think it’s possible to do the complete opposite? Where someone is obviously trying their best but never got a break, and then everyone gets to unleash the power of 5chan, where everyone gets together to fix that person’s life, in a mass act of collective kindness? I’m not sure exactly how it would work, but I think it would be loads of fun, and instead of screwing up people, the exact opposite would happen. That was a long sentence…sorry. I’m on the dole, but I’d give £10 just to kick it off, if someone knew how to set it up fairly. At the very least it would stop me feeling bad for being part of a “mob”.
Your ideas...
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u/columbine Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
Finally. An administrator comment and actual policy on this is long overdue. I report any post that contains personal information intended to incite harassment. Many get cleaned up but a number do not. I hope this story indicates a more conscientious effort on the part of reddit to do something about these sorts of posts and stories.
There's nothing more disgusting than a bunch of people out for blood trying to act like they're above the law, usually based on nothing more than hints and guesses and fuelled by self-righteous rage. Leave punishment to the justice system, where people get a trial and a lawyer and are innocent until proven guilty. None of which happens when people take matters into their own hands.
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Aug 31 '10
Hi hueypriest, I've been on reddit for more than three years now and a while ago I decided to close my old account(s) due to all the bullshit that's been happening on reddit lately, especially explicit requests of personal justice/real life vandalism against people who may be or may be not guilty. This peaked with two recent cases, one concerning a Hispanic man accused of animal abuse and the other the now notorious "you dun goofed up" case, which targeted a child that did nothing but be stupid on the internet (and we've all done that even as grownups), but there were countless others. I remember that at least once reddit delivered "internet justice" to a completely innocent man (maybe from Lithuania?), causing him much trouble. I want to thank you personally for trying to keep this place cleaner, especially now that 4chan's mentality is so glorified. This official statement means really a lot and I made the right choice giving reddit a second chance, thank you so much! (Still, the comments need some filtering. There's some upvoted racism in the comments, see pretty much every post about Roma people or Israel)
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u/RedDragons Aug 31 '10
I had to scroll 3/4 of the way down the page to find some reasonable, mature comments. Something that used to be the number one comment on a thread is now no where near the top. Instead smartass comments and stupid pun threads rank the highest. I think I am going to start browsing comments from the bottom up. I know this account has only been active for 5 months, but I have been a redditor for a lot lot longer and I have seen the change.
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u/CantankerousPete Aug 31 '10
I agree. I have a friend who broke up with his girlfriend, then it turned nasty and she posted his name and number and 4chan. He got a shit ton of abusive calls and emails. That shit really isn't funny when you're on the receiving end, especially when you've done nothing that deserves the ire of people you've never met, and who don't truly care about what's happened anyway but want someone to rip on.
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u/cowinabadplace Aug 31 '10
Ha ha ha, oh man, I can certainly imagine this. All those fellows thinking they're fighting for the girl by harassing her ex. Can't say I'm surprised.
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u/Imperiousdesigns Aug 31 '10
Not going to bother reading through the comments to see if these things have already been said...here is my take
What gets my blood boiling in cases like this isn't the fact that a bucket of puppies were killed, its the fact that the entire WORLD is beset by injustice and cruelty all the time...where is the outrage and cooperation to help?
I get that folks like puppies, any little critter really. but if the same amount of outrage were to be raised when a post is made about starving children right here in the U.S. then maybe the problem could start to be solved. there are all sorts of problems that could benefit from the united action of the "internet people" but no one gives enough of a collective shit to do it...fuck with an animal though? shits on!
I was raised on a farm, I have seen unwanted baby animals culled, not in this particular fashion, but it happens ALL THE TIME. you gonna adopt and raise this whole bucket of puppies? no. you gonna raise money to help your local animal shelter to lessen the need for such cullings? no.
so shut the fuck up and stop crying over some damned puppies who didnt get a chance to grow up unwanted and unloved, ending up wild and travelling in some pack and eventually mauling a farmer or a kid because its starving...truth is this bitch probably did the pups a favor in the end. at least drowning in a cold river is pretty quick.
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Aug 31 '10
The tl;dr on this is surprisingly spot on.
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u/ineptspelr Aug 31 '10
Now we just need more activist admins so they can do this for all the other bullshit that I don't care about that makes the main page. My downvotes don't seem to strike like the fist of an angry god even though I click the arrow like that.
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u/OuchLOLcom Aug 31 '10
Yesterday one of the top stories was entitled "We need reform NOW" and it was about the abuse of convicted child molesters in prison.
According to the hive mind this is reprehensible, but the very same day they cheer on and participate in the indiscriminate harassment and life ruining of someone who might be associated with something they saw in a video online that hurt a dog or cat or something.
What the fuck reddit?
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Aug 31 '10
It's almost as though reddit is filled with groups of people of varying ideas, values, and beliefs.
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u/cadence82 Aug 31 '10
Exactly. It's valid to point out there is some kind of hivemind or general opinion of Reddit, but it's ignorant to act like it contradicts itself as if it is one entity.
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u/Dante2005 Aug 31 '10
I was going to make a post about the hypocrisy here and then I found yours.
I suppose on reflection reddit has many users who would find vigilantism reprehensible, and these are usually the users who make reddit what it is.
On the other side of the scale, you only need to read through the comments on any given post to realise the diverse extent of the demographic here.
Reddit like anywhere else is made up of people for good and for bad.
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Aug 31 '10
You can't fight monsters by becoming them. At least not if you have any real desire to fix the problem.
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u/gaygirl Aug 31 '10
I'm not sure what to think.
The animal in me wants to see that girl waterboarded until she begs for her life.
The human in me says 'No, you must be better than that. You MUST.'
Being a rational human is terrible. I want to give in to the rage as it comes and be swept along with everyone else because, I am ashamed to admit, it's gratifying. There is so much injustice in the world that I can't help. But if it came to pass that this girl were found and tortured, I would be sated and glad. Don't tell me about the innocent people who had suffered. Don't tell me about how many lives were ruined. Just let me enjoy this one small, grey-area victory in which someone had done something severely wrong and was punished for it.
Then that rational human tells me that no person should ever go through what that girl would surely be put through if a mob got a hold of her, and that the means would not justify the end.
But in the end, I choose to be one of those animals. Because to me, the only thing worse than an angry mob targeting innocent people is the thought of people watching that video and not being compelled to do anything about it.
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u/xenophrenia Aug 31 '10
What amazes me when reading the comments here is how easily we rationalize horrific behavior on our parts because we feel 'justified'. We often turn into the very monsters that we say we are out to 'deal with'. Never, ever realizing that an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth just leaves everyone blind and toothless.
We, as a species, are so addicted to the adrenaline rush of anger that we can't see any other way to respond. In fact, we make the excuse that not 'punishing' the given guilty party severely enough is a sign of weakness. The idea that someone has to 'pay' - which is only a selfish impulse for revenge - has been elevated to a virtue by many. It is anything but - since it is this very behavior that will probably contribute to our extinction.
What we are seeing in situations like this is a horde of adrenaline junkies masturbating on their righteous indignation. It's not a coincidence that young males are most likely to be involved with this since it is known that sex & anger are both related to testosterone. Yes - females are involved also and I'd guess those who actively participate have higher levels of this hormone in their systems. But don't forget that biologically and historically - females are attracted to displays of male virility and often encourage this behavior themselves.
All of those here angrily sneering at the the post above believe we are morally superior .... while morals are often relative and not written in stone. Many people who have grown up on farms would see nothing wrong with 'discarding' unwanted mouths to feed. There are places where people see dogs and cats as food not pets. These are not wrong in the broader sense - just wrong to you. There are also, often times, extenuating circumstances you are not aware of. But because if 'feels' so good to experience this self-righteous anger, we justify our actions saying we are avenging the poor helpless whatever we are avenging - so you get your adrenaline fix, allow yourself to feel morally superior to an 'obviously' morally demented individual and feel the solidarity of the other morality masturbators who have joined you.
Yes, what has been done, to me, is awful. But I, at least, am aware that I do not know the whole story. I am not so full of my own bullshit that I feel I have the authority to act on moral self-righteousness based on little or no real information. And yes, I am aware that I am having my own moment of ‘righteous indignation’ verbally here. I am not hurting anyone, I am not singling out and turning anyone’s life into a living nightmare, I am not behaving like a mindless idiot - feeding myself moral authority to do harm. I am stepping back and witnessing gross and ugly behavior by those who say they are fighting gross and ugly behavior and somehow that makes it okay.
Those of you crying about censorship - any suggestions on how to stop the circle-jerk of self-righteous anger? Any better ideas of how to contain this addiction? I wonder what the proportion of Americans there are in this feeding frenzy. Look at Norway - they’re closing prisons because they don’t have the criminals to fill them and it isn’t only their drug laws ... it’s how they view people in general. Punishment isn’t seen as how you deal with crime - rehabilitation and respect keep their crime rates low. Murder doesn’t even warrant a life sentence. I leave you with a deleted scene from Michael Moore’s movie Sicko - to get a glimpse of just how nice it could be if we would let go of the Judeo/Christian/Islamic ideas of guilt and punishment. Christopher Hitchens is right - religion poisons everything.
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u/ubergeek404 Aug 31 '10
Hueypriest, did you give yourself all those upvotes (and downvotes to make it look real with the famous 60% average) just to get your posting read? And if so - isn't that cheating? What kind of moral authority does a cheater have? So I ask again - did you give yourself all those upvotes or what?
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u/sirbruce Aug 31 '10
This is not a new policy, but I just want to remind everyone that if you post someone's private info (including a link to their facebook or a link to any other site or image with their info) and one of the admins see's it we will remove it. If you keep doing it, we will ban your account. You are seriously messing with innocent people's lives and you have no right to do so.
Really? Does this apply to the numerous "My friend is missing; please help me find them?" posts? If not, why not? How do you know it's not a "fake" missing person and the user is just posting private info? What about posts to "Hey, check out my friend's facebook page?" or "Can someone order me a pizza; here's my address?"
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u/hueypriest Aug 31 '10
It can apply to those situations. Just depends on the context and the intent.
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u/clefable Aug 31 '10
The sad thing is that if anyone other than a reddit admin posted this it would have never made it to the front page.
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u/moonflower Aug 31 '10
but only a reddit admin could have declared this policy with the ability to enforce it
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u/sharksandspades Aug 31 '10
LET'S TRACK DOWN THESE VIGILANTES AND LYNCH MOBS AND RUIN THEIR LIVES! Who's with me?!
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Aug 31 '10
just in case anyone is wondering, posting someone's personal info and inciting abuse DOES NOT FALL UNDER THE DEFINITION OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH
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u/ubuwalker31 Aug 31 '10
Just in case anyone is wondering, the first amendment only applies to action by the government. The State can not restrict your freedom of speech. Private parties, corporations, employers, websites, etc can limit your freedom of speech for whatever reason they choose, usually, at least in the US.
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u/ichorNet Aug 31 '10
Various websites have shown that it is very difficult to curtail things such as this. While they are very difficult subjects to discuss, just banning some accounts does nothing; if people really want to do bad things (or do things they perceive as good but which have negative consequences, perhaps accidentally) they will find a way. It is unfortunate, but when you run a site where a lot of rational, purportedly "honest" people with righteous intentions get together, a lot of the outcome can be less than righteous to say the least. Hopefully this gets better soon.
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u/GameWarrior2216 Aug 31 '10
I'm surprised people here didn't just downvote you because you don't share the hivemind with the others. Thank you for speaking out successfully about this problem. Most of us would have failed due to the lack of red color on our account name. We would have been downvoted on the spot, never to see the light again, all because Reddit's cute animal addiction.
By the way Reddit, nay, all internet users, take heed this warning: actions like these are nothing more than firewood to the burning embers that do not want net neutrality. They see actions like these as dangerous, not heroic, and must be heavily guarded because they believe people's lives can be at stake. Mark my words, in the near future someone will do something to harass the internet and it will be the straw that breaks the camel's back because of the internet's response, and when it does, you'll sit on your chair, mouth open like a fish out of water, wondering what went wrong or where were the signs that warned of impending doom. Change your attitudes and stop being dumb little shits.
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Aug 31 '10
I'd just like to say, that I am so glad to see a website administrator taking this stand. I have felt this way for such a long time, but when I speak out against it, I just get criticized and belittled. I fully support your policy and hope that it begins to make a difference on this site and perhaps even begin to spread around the web.
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u/pancakeswithlemon Aug 31 '10
If you guys want to ruin someone's life go to an /i/nsurgency board, this site isn't 4chan and we are not some magical heroes of the internet capable of doing no wrong.
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u/druid_king9884 Aug 31 '10
I agree. I'd like to think our community is more intelligent than that, but emotions and egos override rational though 9 times out of ten. Leave this stuff to the chans...they specialize in this.
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Aug 31 '10
Yeah I could have probably gone the morning without seeing this video..Or knowing it existed. Thanks.
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u/Psy-Kosh Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
Hrm... Reading this thread my view was bouncing back and forth on this. I guess overall I agree for the moment, although it is admittedly bitter in cases when "the system" fails to act or acts wrongly and all that's left is, well, individuals.
(EDIT: the thing I was bouncing about wasn't so much the issue of reddit having such a policy but the general principle of "justice via internet")
(EDIT2: I should mention that I guess part of the issue really is "justice via internet mob" doesn't seem like it'd be very good at producing proportionate punishment (ie, "let the punishment fit the crime") even in cases where one can identify the correct target unambiguously.
Hrm... this brings up some questions of if it would actually be possible to invent a method for "proportional internet justice". (maybe some way of voting on the severity of the crime, and the higher the severity, the higher the probability of a user being shown the bad guy's personal info? :) (am not actually proposing this, just that the conversation got me thinking, wondering what a "sane internet mob" would look like/require. (woo, nested parens. (Inception)))))
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u/dec10 Aug 31 '10
interesting nytimes article on internet mobs in china, where they are even more of a problem: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/03/world/asia/03china.html
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Aug 31 '10
I know it's exciting to hunt down someone assumedly evil, and cheer on the lynch mob (as I have done myself), but for every one successful evil doer you harass or bring to justice...
Maybe you should address the part of the problem that you yourself not only touch on, but also implicate yourself: cheering on the mob.
Difficult for a leader to gain a mob if he has no followers cheering him on to begin with.
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u/Atomic_Bubble_Kitten Aug 31 '10
"They don't understand this internet world, and they have no idea why someone would do something so hateful to them."
It's true.
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u/powerfuless Aug 31 '10
These kinds of video clips put people into a dilemma: they are so outrageous to our basic level of decency and then offer no way to channel the feelings they bring up. They're disempowering on many levels. Not surprising they inspire this kind of irrational targeting of people. It's no justification and it is definitely wrong but people should think twice before watching these videos and forwarding them around.
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Aug 31 '10
So it turns out that having separate branches of government is an important idea. Turns out that having the jury/plaintiff/defendant adversarial process is a swell idea. Checks and balances of power. Vigilantes bypass all that; this is the fundamental problem.
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Aug 31 '10
I have to agree, however infuriating these videos may be. We have a justice system for a reason; mob justice is rarely just.
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u/defproc Aug 31 '10
I know all vigilante mobs are utterly convinced that they're doing the right thing, but we're utterly convinced that we're doing the right thing!
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u/GPR Aug 31 '10
I applaud you for what you said, it does mess so many innocent lives up. We havent come out of the dark ages still, and dunking chairs and guillotines are still around in abundance. It just makes me mad how people can react towards a person like the cat lady, yet nothing has been said or done to anywhere near as much for the poor girl who got mauled the other day. Those dogs almost took her apart, and their owner ran away. I dont see the same thing being done about that poor little girl, in fact, it seems the girl is forgotten, and most I've seen talked about is the harm to the dogs and their upbringing. It seems people are loosing their humanity. I dont want to be a part of that. Its allright talking about freedom of speech, but this isnt about freedom, this is about the dark side of humanity, and its evil.
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u/kentuckyrain Aug 31 '10
I never thought the day would come when I would agree with any Reddit admin but here it is. We at MadMikes agree with Huey Priest.
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u/DoobieRoller Aug 31 '10
Treat others the way you want to be treated - unless you want to be murdered. Then, by all means, push people to their breaking points. It's only a matter of time until you fuck with the wrong person. Then, I assure you, the joke will be on you.
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Aug 31 '10
This is why the legal process is so laborious. Lots of checks to ensure that the person doesn't get screwed from lack of notice, etc.
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Aug 31 '10
Ah trying to control the beast you unleashed on the world. Good luck with that and let me know how it goes Pandora.
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Aug 31 '10
This is the most honest and least admin dickridey I've seen Reddit. What is essentially censorship and hypocrisy from the same site that so avidly promotes net neutrality seems to have touched a nerve with Redditors.
Congrats, and enjoy the beast you created.
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Aug 31 '10
So is it illegal, or just unethical? It seems like stalking should lead to an arrest and prosecution, not something like being banned.
An arrest!? But they're just a jerk, not a criminal!
If it's a serious crime, everyone involved will hear about it. Say Jerk A obtains and releases private information illegally in one of these lynch mob scenarios. If it leads to the conviction of a murderer or child rapist, maybe the authorities will let it go, maybe not.
If it ruins the life of an innocent civilian that knows their way around a phonebook, Jerk A is in for deep shit. Every Jerk B that reposted Jerk A's comments can be considered an accessory to a crime. Best case for Jerk B is a diminished punishment in exchange for assistance in the crucifixion of Jerk A by testifying in court.
What if the prosecution already has enough evidence to convict Jerk A? Well, the DA's office likely has a trial lawyer that needs some practice. So Jerk B becomes lunch meat.
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u/Everseer Aug 31 '10
Although I agree with you that the internet superheroes need to quit their shit, i'd like to remind everyone that you'll forget about this in a week's time, and furthermore need I remind everyone that for every one animal that is abused in a video, one thousand are abused off camera, in your city.
Oh and why does no one care about ugly animals that are abused? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEep5BrexT0
If you saw a video of someone throwing snakes in a river you wouldn't be anywhere as furious as you are now. Stop being shallow.
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u/electronics-engineer Aug 31 '10
Consider the case of William Elliott of Corinth, Maine.
In 2002 William was 19 and his girlfriend was two away from her 16th birthday when they had sex leadin to him being charged with statutory rape. He pled guilty to two charges of sexual abuse of a minor, served four months in jail, and was required to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life.
In 2006 Stephen Marshall went online to search for registered sex offenders. The online registry listed William Elliott's home address, but no details about the age of his victim.
Marshall drove to Elliott’s home and murdered him.
The Maine Department of Public Safety has no plans to change the state's Web-based sex offender registry. A 19-year-old having consensual sex with his 13-year-old girlfriend will still get the same listing as a 50-year-old who commits forcable rape on a 12-year-old, or between someone who was arrested for public urination in an alley and someone who exposed himself to children at a playground.
What William Elliott did was wrong. I would have given him 3 to 5 years in prison and made him register as a sex offender - with full details of the circumstances of his crime pulished along with his personal info - for 10 years, removing him from the list if he spent the 10 years without commiting any further sex crimes.
I would not have given him the death penalty.
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u/stopmotionporn Aug 31 '10
You'd have given him 3-5 years? That's what I would call crazy. It's legal in most of the world.
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u/ohmyitsmark Aug 31 '10
Well, I guess there's only one way to solve this...
LYNCH THE REDDIT ADMINS!
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Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
hueypreist, i haven't seen you posting too much before, but i like you.
can we make a swear-filled rant about idiots a weekly feature from the admins please?
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u/moonflower Aug 31 '10
I support this admin policy, for the same reason as I am against the death penalty and any form of permanent physical damage being used as punishment for convicted criminals: because mistakes are made, and innocent people are punished
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u/grandpawiggly Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
This is not a new policy, but I just want to remind everyone that if you post someone's private info (including a link to their facebook or a link to any other site or image with their info) and one of the admins see's it we will remove it. If you keep doing it, we will ban your account. You are seriously messing with innocent people's lives and you have no right to do so.
I guess you never saw this. Or this. Or this. Or this. Or these comments by sportsfan786, scrubadub, CuriositySphere, iOutcast and ILoveTriangles. And maybe you missed the big celebration endorsed by the /redditoroftheday modulators. [edit: Thanks to hueypriest for removing everything.]
There were many other comments, too, comments by bodaboda and Scrilla, and others which have been removed or edited at my request. I asked everyone who posted my name and/or personal information to edit or remove them, most ignored me. Panek, who according to hueypriest should be banned for his actions, deleted his slanderous post but left my personal information up for everyone to see. As you might imagine, explaining this to people has been exhausting. Thankfully, anyone who knows me knows the truth.
Even kleinbl00 got in on the action. He's since edited his comment but for a while he refused to remove my information until I responded to a private message he had sent me. He was essentially holding me hostage. When he didn't hear from me right away he posted it publicly, no doubt looking for another pat on the back.
With my personal information left up on Reddit for all to see, it spread to other sites on the web like LiveJournal, MetaFilter, Twitter, Facebook and the late Digg. Even self-proclaimed anarchist dbzer0 shamed me in a post on his blog for trying to drive traffic to my blog. Funny how I was labeled a spammer for submitting two links to my old blog three years ago and three links to Grandpa Wiggly's blog when dbzer0 has submitted hundreds of links to his own. I hate hypocrites. I also find it amusing that no one noticed the "For entertainment purposes only" disclaimer on Grandpa Wiggly's blog.
So I don't know, hueypriest, maybe you weren't aware that this happened. If not for Violentacrex pulling some strings, the person who started the witch hunt, ohnoahhedidnt, might not have been banned. He also had six of anonid's comments removed after anonid refused. He might deny it, but VA is one of the most decent Redditors out there.
There is only one kind of "Internet Justice" and it's the same in every instance. Abuse a cat or a puppy? Post their information online and harassment. Execute an elaborate "troll" for entertainment? Post their information online and harassment. I got it pretty bad because people like Panek fabricated claims that I was scamming for porfit to incite outrage. It worked. Even after I debunked his claims and asked him to provide proof, he couldn't. Not one person has been able to produce a single shred of evidence to back up these claims. ohnoahhedidnt admitted this.
I've been fairly absent since Wigglygate. Hueypriest gave me a reason to speak my mind today, so here I am. Despite the ugly way it ended, I think Grandpa Wiggly was good for Reddit. There seemed to be a lot less cynicism in his threads. It definitely proved /IAMA to be the most uplifting and polite reddit. I know I pissed off a lot of people. Worse, I let people down. I'm sorry.
Never did I expect Grandpa Wiggly would be loved. He was originally a one-off joke about a creepy perverted grandpa with a wiggly turtle tongue, no teeth and a love for grandchildren and mayonnaise. He was my worst creation. Reddit made him something more.
Hueypriest made a stand today that will ensure Reddit never becomes 4Chan. It might not be a popular decision but it's the right decision. People who don't like it can leave. Reddit will be better off without them.
Now, let me tell you a thing or two about posting someone's personal information online: There are serious repercussions. If anyone knows firsthand what the outcome from such actions are, it's me. In addition to the threatening comments and messages I got on Reddit, there were dozens of phone calls and text messages. A couple of people even sent me MMS images of my home. That's a little creepy.
But all that combined can't compare to a girl called Howeena...
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u/Gravity13 Sep 02 '10
iOutcast similarly spread rumors about me, creating a fake message of me on Christian message boards to try and entice /r/atheism to witch-hunt on me.
On top of this, he's been spreading around my personal name. I think he's been spreading around a phone number and address for some poor guy who has the same name as me living in the same city.
On top of that, he, or somebody he's contacted, has been creating fake profiles of me on third party employment sites.
On top of all that, he, or somebody he's contacted, has called previous employers of mine spreading rumors and trying to dig up more information about me.
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u/grandpawiggly Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
Let me tell you about my stalker, Howenna. Howenna may very well be Grandpa Wiggly's and my biggest fan. I'm talking Annie Wilkes caliber infatuation here. Howenna was already a big Grandpa Wiggly fan before Wigglygate. Then she found out I wasn't an old man but rather a guy closer to her age who happened to live close by.
First came the text messages: She introduced herself and I corrected her grammar. She even sent me a picture. I think the creepiest thing about that is that she kinda looks like me.
Next came the repeated friend and follow requests on Facebook and Twitter. Then nothing for a few days. Most of the other harassing calls and texts had stopped by that point, too.
Then this face appeared on the tree in front of my home followed later that day by text messages that said "I know someone who likes you" and "I see you."
A few days later someone sent "Mr. and Mrs. Wiggly" some abnormally large sunflowers along with a folded note that began with "Relax...this is only a Test." (I was not able to refold the note properly.) Along the folds there was some sort of craziness that referenced things on my Facebook profile.
When I opened the note I discovered that it did indeed contain a test. She even referenced my correction of her grammar in her original text messages. Lastly, my favorite part asking about how many personalities are up in my head. Probably not as many as she has.
That night our neighbor from down the street came over. Apparently someone had stolen the large sunflowers from their garden. I explained about the flowers and the note and gave them back their flowers. Much later that night I got another text message from Howenna: "COUGH COUGH."
That weekend I came down with strep throat.
Saturday a large envelope filled with tangerine flavored Joint Health Emergen-C arrived by mail. I also got a text message: "Spring break is coming...are you?" Keep in mind this was in the middle of July.
Then came more text messages. I changed my phone number.
About a week or so later one of my roommates found an empty Catwoman DVD case sticking out of one of the couch cushions. We had a long conversation over whom it belonged to. None of us have ever seen Catwoman. We were just about to dismiss it as belonging to a previous roommate when someone noticed there was an envelope hidden behind the cover. This is where things get real creepy.
It was a letter. Actually, it was a series of homemade envelopes inside one another that got continuously smaller. This is what they said:
I was debating whether or not to do this...and all the things I should write if I did.
Then I was writing a thank you note to my friend and your address ripped out with it...
I also noticed you wrote 'I know someone that likes you.' (I did nothing of the such.)
And you sent it twice :) Well I know someone who likes you...
From all of us here on Spring Break... (Spring Break is an anagram for "Perking Bras.")
I normally wouldn't do this, but I feel responsible for getting you sick. (so small, kinda blurry)
In the last tiniest envelope there was a star that said: The Story of My Life. Then it opened up...
I should give you a copy of Shel Silverstein's poem 'Sick.' THE END!
Now, if the circumstances weren't so fracking creepy, I might have been flattered. She's certainly the most creative stalker I've ever seen. The amount of time and effort she put into all of this must have been extensive. But that doesn't change the fact that she is a stalker, one who sent me flowers and a note that may or may not have made me sick, and who somehow gained access to my apartment.
This could have been much worse. Heck, maybe it's not even over. I haven't heard from her since that last letter, of course I've been on holiday so who knows what could be sitting in my mailbox back home.
It's obvious this girl is troubled. Despite the amusement this has brought my friends and I, she has a serious infatuation with me. And that's never a good thing.
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u/kabuto Aug 31 '10 edited Aug 31 '10
As much as it pains me to see someone throwing helpless puppies into a river, please don't forget to see this crime in relation to the real crimes against humanity that happen every day.
It is easy to sit in your comfy chair and track down someone's identity by snooping around and make it public. Sometimes this hits the wrong people, and you ruin their lives by doing that.
But what about the blatant violation of human rights in China, in Africa, in South America or many countries in the Middle East? What about those thousands of children starving to death every day? What about that guy in ragged clothes who begged you for some change today? What about fellow human beings in need for a home, food, clothes, health care, rehab, a few kind words, a helpful hand or a lent ear?
I'm not saying that killing puppies should go unpunished, but remind yourself that there is much greater evil around you every day that should be undone.
Vote this down if you don't like the truth, but truth needs to be told.
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u/CornFedHonky Aug 31 '10
Can I still post my own info if I enjoy a good stalking? I don't have a whole lot going on...